I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[RegisteredUconn]

Kyle you severely underestimate Delany.

If you think he doesn't realize Virginia > Rutgers and therefore Virginia wasn't interested I don't know what to tell you.

Virginia < Rutgers when the target is New York.

 

[whaler11]

Virginia < Rutgers when the target is New York.

And guess what.... they could have still added Rutgers whenever they wanted.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

LOL...several Big Ten ADs said that Delany was spooked by the ACC addition of Notre Dame and moved rapidly to protect Penn State....

Judicious, well planned movement or a knee jerk reaction. I know what I think....

Somehow I think "spooked" is your word...or at the very least not Delany's. What's Notre Dame got to do with Penn State?

 

[dayooper]

LOL yeah they are working backwards taking the lesser targets first.

UVa signed the GOR because they want out so badly.

Your personal attacks are fine because every bit of evidence points at Virginia wanting to be in the ACC and if they wanted to leave they would have been welcomed with open arms.

I think you are selling Rutgers short. They had been talked about for quite some time and were even mention back in 2010 as a possibility. Mind you, this is some speculative stuff and it's over 4 years old now, but Frank the Tank had a commenter that had some "industry information" created a valuation chart for the potential 12th (and 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th) team. He does give a brief overview of the metrics, but doesn't go into the math.

On top, by a huge margin was Texas. Second? Rutgers w/NYC market. Third was Nebraska followed closely by Maryland. ND was actually fifth. Teams such as UVA and UNC aren't included so we don't know where they would fall into the equation.

Here's the link to the post.

Again, take all of this with a grain of salt as it's speculative. I do believe that it's somewhat accurate as three of the top four teams are now in The Big10.

That being said, am I excited about Rutgers? Not really. I would much rather have a larger name come into the Big10 if we had to have someone. I will accept them with open arms, though, as they are now our brothers (at least on July 1st, they will be).

 

[RegisteredUconn]

And guess what.... they could have still added Rutgers whenever they wanted.

In fact, they did add Rutgers when they wanted.

 

[TerryD]

Sounds like someone was reading Bleacher Report for their news.

It's funny that the ACC folks that want to perpetuate the impenetrable strength of the GoR ignore that Penn State itself is signed to a GoR with the Big Ten. They'll have you believe the Big Ten acted out of desperation because Notre Dame hitched its olympic sports to the ACC wagon. Seriously anyone thinking the Big Ten became desperate because of that is clueless.

Maryland and Rutgers were always targets for the next round of expansion; always. If anyone is interested, I can show you a link to the Syracuse board in summer 2011 where I was pointing this out.

At most, at very most, the Big Ten moved up their timetable by a year because of the Notre Dame move to the ACC. But it absolutely did not change their plan whatsoever. In fact, the Big Ten even noted after ND joined the ACC that move wasn't unexpected. Think logically here... why would the Big Ten be desperate about something that was Notre Dame's only move short of joining the Big Ten? ND joining the ACC was expected by the Big Ten all along, short of agreeing to become a full member.

Your sources are good, Kyle, and you are a good poster on multiple boards. However, I think that you seriously overestimate the "grand strategy" of Jim Delany.

Just because the Big Ten would like to work out this great, strategic plan doesn't mean that everyone else is interested in what it is selling or is willing to make the move.

The Big Ten first wanted Texas and ND in 2010. That was part of the grand strategy too. The only thing was the response was "No sale".

Virginia and North Carolina may not be interested (culture, ego, fanbase, etc..) in making the move. Then, there is the whole GOR and exit fee litigation to endure as a potential deterrent.

I don't think that anyone in the ACC wants to move. I also think that the GOR/Exit Fee means no real P5 realignment (Big 12/ACC) movement for ten years. We will just disagree on how irresistible the Big Ten pitch may prove to be.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Somehow I think "spooked" is your word...or at the very least not Delany's. What's Notre Dame got to do with Penn State?

The BUG was upset that we were willing to compromise independence with someone else, as opposed to give it up entirely for to become one of their vassals. But ND was far from Delaney's primary motivation. I'm sure it was the sum total of:

Pitt, Syr, ND, three semi-traditional rivals of PSU.
Had surrounded PSU which was a geographic outlier from the start far from Columbus.
The Lion crowd were furious that Delaney had decided to tack on extra punishment in addition to the NCAAs knee jerk reaction. Their fans were starting to want out.

The BUG has their inside man running Maryland, who was in financial trouble.

The above are all secondary factors in addition to the major selling points of UM/RU, {tv markets, recruiting grounds for a demographically challenged conference, academics, and two easy annual wins for UM/Ohio.}

 

[dayooper]

Your sources are good, Kyle, and you are a good poster on multiple boards. However, I think that you seriously overestimate the "grand strategy" of Jim Delany.

Just because the Big Ten would like to work out this great, strategic plan doesn't mean that everyone else is interested in what it is selling or is willing to make the move.

The Big Ten first wanted Texas and ND in 2010. That was part of the grand strategy too. The only thing was the response was "No sale".

Virginia and North Carolina may not be interested (culture, ego, fanbase, etc..) in making the move. Then, there is the whole GOR and exit fee litigation to endure as a potential deterrent.

I don't think that anyone in the ACC wants to move. I also think that the GOR/Exit Fee means no real P5 realignment (Big 12/ACC) movement for ten years. We will just disagree on how irresistible the Big Ten pitch may prove to be.

Nice post, Terry. I agree with most of what you are saying except I do believe there is a possibility of movement in the next few years. I think these schools would never sign anything that completely removes the ability to look in their own best interests. Do I think UVA wants to move? My guess is no. I also believe that things can and do change. What is/was good for certain schools may not be good in the future.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Your sources are good, Kyle, and you are a good poster on multiple boards. However, I think that you seriously overestimate the "grand strategy" of Jim Delany.

Just because the Big Ten would like to work out this great, strategic plan doesn't mean that everyone else is interested in what it is selling or is willing to make the move.

The Big Ten first wanted Texas and ND in 2010. That was part of the grand strategy too. The only thing was the response was "No sale".

Virginia and North Carolina may not be interested (culture, ego, fanbase, etc..) in making the move. Then, there is the whole GOR and exit fee litigation to endure as a potential deterrent.

I don't think that anyone in the ACC wants to move. I also think that the GOR/Exit Fee means no real P5 realignment (Big 12/ACC) movement for ten years. We will just disagree on how irresistible the Big Ten pitch may prove to be.

If I were Swofford, I wouldn't waste all my energy worrying about what Delany might do. There are two behemoths sitting at 14 teams each. If there is a push to 16, both will be licking their chops over Virginia and/or North Carolina. Somebody in the ACC's gonna blink and it's going to be mighty tough holding back the stampede once that happens. We were the Big East; we know how it works when prettier women ask you to dance.

 

[whaler11]

In fact, they did add Rutgers when they wanted.

They did. Are you going to claim they would have taken Rutgers over Virginia given the choice? Rutgers over Maryland I'd buy into, Rutgers over Virginia is laughable even by the standards of this board.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I think you are selling Rutgers short. They had been talked about for quite some time and were even mention back in 2010 as a possibility. Mind you, this is some speculative stuff and it's over 4 years old now, but Frank the Tank had a commenter that had some "industry information" created a valuation chart for the potential 12th (and 13th, 14th, 15th, and 16th) team. He does give a brief overview of the metrics, but doesn't go into the math.

On top, by a huge margin was Texas. Second? Rutgers w/NYC market. Third was Nebraska followed closely by Maryland. ND was actually fifth. Teams such as UVA and UNC aren't included so we don't know where they would fall into the equation.

Here's the link to the post.

Again, take all of this with a grain of salt as it's speculative. I do believe that it's somewhat accurate as three of the top four teams are now in The Big10.

That being said, am I excited about Rutgers? Not really. I would much rather have a larger name come into the Big10 if we had to have someone. I will accept them with open arms, though, as they are now our brothers (at least on July 1st, they will be).

That he led with a picture of ND stadium (centered on the visiting team section) and included BC on that list is while I'll always playfully needle Frank.

They did. Are you going to claim they would have taken Rutgers over Virginia given the choice? Rutgers over Maryland I'd buy into, Rutgers over Virginia is laughable even by the standards of this board.

Geographic contiguity though.

I'm tired of that techy talk phrase, from now on it's "inviting the neighbors over for wine and cheese"

 

[RegisteredUconn]

The BUG was upset that we were willing to compromise independence with someone else, as opposed to give it up entirely for to become one of their vassals. But ND was far from Delaney's primary motivation. I'm sure it was the sum total of:

Pitt, Syr, ND, three semi-traditional rivals of PSU.
Had surrounded PSU which was a geographic outlier from the start far from Columbus.
The Lion crowd were furious that Delaney had decided to tack on extra punishment in addition to the NCAAs knee jerk reaction. Their fans were starting to want out.

The BUG has their inside man running Maryland, who was in financial trouble.

The above are all secondary factors in addition to the major selling points of UM/RU, {tv markets, recruiting grounds for a demographically challenged conference, academics, and two easy annual wins for UM/Ohio.}

Joe, I don't know for certain what the "BUG" is and all I can reasonably deduce is that it's some for of B1G disparagement. If that's the case, save it for the ND boards where it might earn you a few chortles. We're concerned for our future here and the B1G looks like a real good landing strip to us. I think you'll find (some of us at least) more amenable to cordial discussion if you use some discretion. If I'm wrong about "BUG" let me know. I'm not particularly fond of being ignorant.

 

[Fishy]

They did. Are you going to claim they would have taken Rutgers over Virginia given the choice? Rutgers over Maryland I'd buy into, Rutgers over Virginia is laughable even by the standards of this board.

We keep worrying about Rutgers.

It's not Rutgers they're interested in - it's the nine million people in New Jersey and the fact that it's the width of the Hudson away from New York City.

Would you trade New Jersey and the NYC market for Virginia? No.

 

[dayooper]

The BUG was upset that we were willing to compromise independence with someone else, as opposed to give it up entirely for to become one of their vassals. But ND was far from Delaney's primary motivation. I'm sure it was the sum total of:

Pitt, Syr, ND, three semi-traditional rivals of PSU.
Had surrounded PSU which was a geographic outlier from the start far from Columbus.
The Lion crowd were furious that Delaney had decided to tack on extra punishment in addition to the NCAAs knee jerk reaction. Their fans were starting to want out.

The BUG has their inside man running Maryland, who was in financial trouble.

The above are all secondary factors in addition to the major selling points of UM/RU, {tv markets, recruiting grounds for a demographically challenged conference, academics, and two easy annual wins for UM/Ohio.}

It's hard to take you seriously when you use derogatory terms. That being said, what you are saying really doesn't make sense.

ND had already compromised independence with The Big East, why would The Big10 be upset they went to The ACC? You added two more games, but picked up more favorable bowl connections. For someone who has NDependent as your avatar, you really are trying to sell the fact that your are "in" the ACC pretty hard.

As far as surrounding PSU with semi-traditional rivals, what's your point. You actually believe that PSU would jump to the ACC because ND is now a partial member? Pitt and 'Cuse I might be able to buy. I guess anything is possible, but I have a hard time believing that PSU would turn away from all the Big10 has to offer. Sure there were/are some PSU fans who were upset about being in the Big10. There are some pretty upset fans of most teams (including your own). Upset fans don't mean anything and if you call your shots based on what the general message board fans think, then you've already lost.

Now you are accusing the Big10 planting an "inside man" in the presidency of Maryland so they would switch. Classy.

 

[whaler11]

We keep worrying about Rutgers.

It's not Rutgers they're interested in - it's the nine million people in New Jersey and the fact that it's the width of the Hudson away from New York City.

Would you trade New Jersey and the NYC market for Virginia? No.

No of course not. But you'd take Virginia and then figure out who else you add when you take Rutgers, because Rutgers is always there for the taking.

That's the beauty of the Big 10 model. Rutgers is worthless to the ACC and Big 12.

The Big 10 still cares about the schools. If they wanted to just play sports and make money they would have ignored Maryland and taken Florida State.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

They did. Are you going to claim they would have taken Rutgers over Virginia given the choice? Rutgers over Maryland I'd buy into, Rutgers over Virginia is laughable even by the standards of this board.

Delany didn't have a choice to make. I'd advise an incorporation of the element of time in your arguments. A chess game doesn't start with the phrase "check mate." Moves need to be made, strategies deployed, counter measures implemented. Virginia's reticent; I get that. So was Maryland until they had some numbers explained to them. As I said before, Virginia's moving to the B1G. They just don't know it yet.

 

[kyleslamb]

LOL yeah they are working backwards taking the lesser targets first.

UVa signed the GOR because they want out so badly.

Your personal attacks are fine because every bit of evidence points at Virginia wanting to be in the ACC and if they wanted to leave they would have been welcomed with open arms.

Jim Delaney on Nov. 19, 2012 in response to taking Maryland (and presumably Rutgers which came a few days later)...

"We said, how do we participate in the new paradigm? Our answer was let's look at contiguous states first, let's look at AAU members first, and let's figure out if there is a way to continue to bridge from Penn State into the Mid-Atlantic. Is there a way to collaborate with like institutions, to grow our footprint, to compete and to position ourselves for the future? We determined this is the best way to accomplish those ends."

 

[Pat125]

Joe, I don't know for certain what the "BUG" is and all I can reasonably deduce is that it's some for of B1G disparagement. If that's the case, save it for the ND boards where it might earn you a few chortles. We're concerned for our future here and the B1G looks like a real good landing strip to us. I think you'll find (some of us at least) more amenable to cordial discussion if you use some discretion. If I'm wrong about "BUG" let me know. I'm not particularly fond of being ignorant.

BUG is a silly and seemingly idiotic disparaging term used by many ND fans for the Big Ten, because they don't like the Big Ten, even though ND has traditionally played teams from the Big Ten. Michigan is especially disparaged because of something that happened eons ago, even though ND started playing Michigan again when they had no need to. Go figure. And now the "BUG" apparently plants presidents into schools they wish to add.

 

[whaler11]

Delany didn't have a choice to make. I'd advise an incorporation of the element of time in your arguments. A chess game doesn't start with the phrase "check mate." Moves need to be made, strategies deployed, counter measures implemented. Virginia's reticent; I get that. So was Maryland until they had some numbers explained to them. As I said before, Virginia's moving to the B1G. They just don't know it yet.

I'm accused of being a condesending bastard but I back up my opinions. I'm more than happy to take any even money action on what league Virginia is sworn to on 6/4/19. I'll take the ACC, you can take your league and your amount.

 

[whaler11]

Jim Delaney on Nov. 19, 2012 in response to taking Maryland (and presumably Rutgers which came a few days later)...

"We said, how do we participate in the new paradigm? Our answer was let's look at contiguous states first, let's look at AAU members first, and let's figure out if there is a way to continue to bridge from Penn State into the Mid-Atlantic. Is there a way to collaborate with like institutions, to grow our footprint, to compete and to position ourselves for the future? We determined this is the best way to accomplish those ends."

OMG someone gave a plausible reasoning for what they did. Would they have taken North Carolina instead of Maryland? I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

 

[kyleslamb]

Your sources are good, Kyle, and you are a good poster on multiple boards. However, I think that you seriously overestimate the "grand strategy" of Jim Delany.

Just because the Big Ten would like to work out this great, strategic plan doesn't mean that everyone else is interested in what it is selling or is willing to make the move.

The Big Ten first wanted Texas and ND in 2010. That was part of the grand strategy too. The only thing was the response was "No sale".

Virginia and North Carolina may not be interested (culture, ego, fanbase, etc..) in making the move. Then, there is the whole GOR and exit fee litigation to endure as a potential deterrent.

I don't think that anyone in the ACC wants to move. I also think that the GOR/Exit Fee means no real P5 realignment (Big 12/ACC) movement for ten years. We will just disagree on how irresistible the Big Ten pitch may prove to be.

Well Notre Dame has always been sort of open ended if they would agree to full, unequivocal membership. And you're no doubt right that Texas was most definitely a target all along if they were interested. At any point, Texas could ask to join the Big Ten and they would have welcomed Texas. But just because they were looking at all sorts of options doesn't mean the Big Ten hasn't had a rough plan of attack all along.

If anything, the Texas plan that the Big Ten first looked into, and didn't materialize, is what cemented the East coast expansion. They tested the ice on the home runs early in the process and when it didn't come to fruition, they set out on their east coast plan. That's been something they've craved all along, with or without Texas.

 

[whaler11]

Well Notre Dame has always been sort of open ended if they would agree to full, unequivocal membership. And you're no doubt right that Texas was most definitely a target all along if they were interested. At any point, Texas could ask to join the Big Ten and they would have welcomed Texas. But just because they were looking at all sorts of options doesn't mean the Big Ten hasn't had a rough plan of attack all along.

If anything, the Texas plan that the Big Ten first looked into, and didn't materialize, is what cemented the East coast expansion. They tested the ice on the home runs early in the process and when it didn't come to fruition, they set out on their east coast plan. That's been something they've craved all along, with or without Texas.

Oh wait there are schools that can call the Big 10 whenever they want and join? But Texas never got invited!!!!

 

[kyleslamb]

OMG someone gave a plausible reasoning for what they did. Would they have taken North Carolina instead of Maryland? I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

I've already given my answer several times. You refuse to listen. You've made up your mind that you know what everyone else is thinking, even though you've criticized others on this board for the same.

So far, all you've managed to come up with is that because Virginia isn't already in the Big Ten, therefore it proves they never will be. It's outright laughable logic, or lack thereof.

 

[Gfunk]

Joe, I don't know for certain what the "BUG" is and all I can reasonably deduce is that it's some for of B1G disparagement. If that's the case, save it for the ND boards where it might earn you a few chortles. We're concerned for our future here and the B1G looks like a real good landing strip to us. I think you'll find (some of us at least) more amenable to cordial discussion if you use some discretion. If I'm wrong about "BUG" let me know. I'm not particularly fond of being ignorant.

I thought it was already clearly stated that this loudmouth would get canned if he kept these oddly negative posts about the BIG consistent.

Just stop, please. It's not worth it.

We all get certain ND fans dislike for the BIG. Move on.

ND to the BIG nearly happened at one point - but the ship has sailed now. I've never lost sleep over it because ND football is so tragically overrated & they can't beat a Michigan team, most years, that has been down since Carr left.

I also think those predicting the ACC's demise are overstating, but I get it from a BigEast perspective - the ACC was clearly the most predatory conference the past 20 years. The ACC is a necessary conference at this point - the Southeast portion of it needs to keep the SEC in check (once and very long while in football - it happened this year: FSU) & continue to front as an academic powerhouse conference via the only rankings that matter - US News Undergraduate Schools - I'm being cheeky here for I think the graduate metrics, across the board, clearly show the BIG far ahead of the ACC, esp in really world application, power brokers and patents. There are definitely some fine undergraduate schools in the ACC, which is expected, a lot of private institutions in that conference -super costly tuition.

Really, as a BIG fan, I would be quite content at 16 with UConn and not an eastern school, but KU. KU is currently going through an overhaul to become a very selective school and plenty of investment in research & graduate schools. I'm down with that. KC's a great spot to host the BIG Men's Basketball tourney every few years as well.

The football powers in the BIG will inevitably cycle up and be very good at the same time in the future. For many years PSU, Mi & OSU were strong. Now that Neb is in the league and MSU & Wisky have proven to be consistent top 15 teams - the football side will recover. Horrible things happened at PSU, Mi was due for a down cycle because their consistency was beyond impressive - no program has every pulled off Mi's long-term consistency. OSU clearly had scandal with Tressel. Neb is still a work in progress, but they're getting there & one thing many football fans seem to forget - Neb as been one of the 3 best programs since the early 70s - more NCs than any current BIG team, as many as Miami & Bama - same time frame.

More than anything, I want BIG basketball dominance - this happens with UConn and KU.

 

[kyleslamb]

Oh wait there are schools that can call the Big 10 whenever they want and join? But Texas never got invited!!!!

What a ridiculous comment (again).

There are a lot of schools a league might be interested in. It doesn't mean they've gone around and asked every single one of them.

You are ignorantly acting like the Big Ten went around from 2011-2012 and desperately asked every single school they had any interest in to join their league. I can't even believe I"m having this discussion. It should be obvious to anyone with common sense it doesn't work like that. They're moving gradually, taking teams closer by that interest them.

Yes, if Texas had called out of the blue and said "we're ready to join the Big Ten," the Big Ten would have dropped everything to make it happen. It doesn't mean that because it didn't happen, they invited Texas and were rejected. That simply didn't happen.

Here's some more shocking news for you: frankly, the Big Ten isn't interested in jumping 3-4 states away to take teams. That's why they were expanding to contiguous states first, and then worrying about the next step when they get there.

 

[BoatShow]

Virginia < Rutgers when the target is New York.

UVA brought a TON of people to the sweet 16 in MSG. Not as much as UConn but a lot a lot. Huge alumni base and not too awful of a drive.

 

[whaler11]

What a ridiculous comment (again).

There are a lot of schools a league might be interested in. It doesn't mean they've gone around and asked every single one of them.

You are ignorantly acting like the Big Ten went around from 2011-2012 and desperately asked every single school they had any interest in to join their league. I can't even believe I"m having this discussion. It should be obvious to anyone with common sense it doesn't work like that. They're moving gradually, taking teams closer by that interest them.

Yes, if Texas had called out of the blue and said "we're ready to join the Big Ten," the Big Ten would have dropped everything to make it happen. It doesn't mean that because it didn't happen, they invited Texas and were rejected. That simply didn't happen.

Here's some more shocking news for you: frankly, the Big Ten isn't interested in jumping 3-4 states away to take teams. That's why they were expanding to contiguous states first, and then worrying about the next step when they get there.

Your stance is that the Big 10 wouldn't take North Carolina and Texas tomorrow because they aren't contiguous?

So in this post you seem to understand that they don't offer membership to schools that won't accept... so maybe that is why Virginia didn't have their 'offer'?

Same offer to everyone else with opinions - worthless without backing them up. Let me know your stakes and your call - otherwise it's hot air.

 

[whaler11]

I've already given my answer several times. You refuse to listen. You've made up your mind that you know what everyone else is thinking, even though you've criticized others on this board for the same.

So far, all you've managed to come up with is that because Virginia isn't already in the Big Ten, therefore it proves they never will be. It's outright laughable logic, or lack thereof.

No Virgina watched Maryland join the Big 10 and then signed a GOR with the ACC. Their isn't a need to guess what they are thinking - they made it quite clear.

 

[NickyNewark]

On the other hand... Cavalier scorn is nothing like that of the Tar Heels. Regardless of what the fans think, I suppose if Teresa Sullivan and the board want to make a move, they have Delany's number.

Where did our Cavalier friend go? I think he just got mad and went home, correct? This would be much more fun with him around.

I seen his post's on that private school in upstate NY's board where he's been a member for 3 yrs!! His agenda grew stale here and he knew it. That's why I always called him stimpycuse....he thinks like a Cuse fan with that uppity private school attitude. His posts reeked of snobbishness IMO!

 

[NickyNewark]

LOL...several Big Ten ADs said that Delany was spooked by the ACC addition of Notre Dame and moved rapidly to protect Penn State....

Judicious, well planned movement or a knee jerk reaction. I know what I think....

the RU/Mds talks were reported LONG before any thought of ND's partial move. Just more rumor/gossip....though it may have acellerated the anouncement!?! PSU was never going anywhere outside a few disgruntled fan's PSU is where they belong as much as the ACC could use help up here.