I'm More Convinced Than Ever: UConn & UVA to the B1G

[Ldandy]

Winning has a lot to do with it. No one will watch a loser repeatedly unless they are a hardcore fan and unfortunately there are not a lot of them to pony up for a BTN subscription, not enough for the conference to make money. As many have said the B1G inviting Rutgers was a colossal mistake, and begs the question who has more hardcore fans Rutgers or UCONN?

You are clearly blinded by your hatred of RU so much that you are incapable of grasping the obvious point that myself and others have attempted to make. RU is in the conference for 1 reason and 1 reason only... $$$.

Does Delany like the fact that they are an AAU Member? Yes. How about the fact that they are contiguous to PA? Yes again. Their spending money to upgrade High Point Stadium didn't hurt either. If you want to include some sort of historic significance to RU that's fine too. All these things considered ultimately mean nothing if there was not a vehicle to monetize NJ Cable subscribers. The B1G was not inviting Rutgers or any school if they didn't think they could make money on them. It is just that simple.

RU's athletic history may be brutal, and their in state support is probably lukewarm at best, but unless all cable subscribers in NJ start dropping their subscriptions en masse, then Delany made a good move. UCONN's issue is not its academic profile, which is good, or its athletics which are excellent, its the number of cable homes in CT. As the dynamics of CR change, this may become less of an issue for The B1G.

 

[Drimple]

Rutgers getting into the B1G was a huge error on Delaney's part, given that athletics AND athletic performance is absolutely what is driving conference realignment. Like I said before, conference realignment has everything to do with TV ratings, and TV ratings in college sports or the pros has everything to do with athletic success and performance. No one likes to watch a loser, just ask Cleveland, the Marlins, Kansas City, or Paul Pasqualoni.

OK...now why did Rutgers get in???? Clearly there were better choices for the league, like UCONN or Missouri. So who knows for sure, but IMO they were grandfathered in because the Rutgers campus is the birthplace of college football. It sounds corny but to some people it's hallowed ground. Jopa wanted them years ago for his Northeast football conference for that reason. I mean Rutgers helped write the rulebook.

"American football evolved from the sport of rugby football.[6] Rugby, like American football, is a team sport where two competing teams vie for control of a ball, which can be kicked through a set of goalposts or run into the opponent's goal area to score points.[7]

The first American football game was played on November 6, 1869 between Rutgers and Princeton. The game was played between two teams of 25 players each, used a round ball, and resembled a combination of rugby and soccer in its rules; the ball could not be picked up or carried, but it could be kicked or batted with the feet, hands, head or sides, with the ultimate goal of advancing it into the opponent's goal. Rutgers won the game 6-4.[8][9] Collegiate play continued for several years in which matches were played using the rules of the host school. Representatives of Yale, Columbia, Princeton and Rutgers met on October 19, 1873 to create a standard set of rules for all schools to adhere to. Teams were set at 20 players each, and fields of 400 by 250 feet were specified. Harvard abstained from the conference, as they favored a rugby-style game that allowed running with the ball.[9]

An 1875 Harvard-Yale game played under rugby-style rules was observed by two impressed Princeton athletes. These players introduced the sport to Princeton, a feat the Professional Football Researchers Association compared to "sellingrefrigerators to Eskimos."[9] Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Columbia then agreed to intercollegiate play using a form of rugby union rules with a modified scoring system.[10] These schools formed the Intercollegiate Football Association, although Yale did not join until 1879. Yale player Walter Camp, now regarded as the "Father of American Football,"[10][11] passed rule changes in 1880 that reduced the team size from 15 to 11 players and instituted the snap to replace the chaotic and inconsistent scrum.[10]"

Jesus man.

I love hating on Rutgers as much as anyone but this is just crazy talk. Rutgers got in for the exact same arguments we make in support of UConn, except that we actually win titles.

It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with population and cable subscribers. It doesn't matter is they win, they already cut the local cable deals they needed for it to make sense. Hopefully that means we're next eventually but honestly I'm pretty concerned.

 

[Drimple]

I graduated from UConn and now live in NJ and have many friends and neighbors who went to Rutgers. Thus, I have no issue with Rutgers being in the B1G based on the fact it was for the money. In fact, I do not think UConn has a remote chance getting into the B1G if Rutgers is not there already. I also agree that based on location and HS recruiting in the area, Rutgers has had and continues to have a lot of potential. Unfortunately for Rutgers, it is currently be led by the 3 Stooges – Hermann, Barchi, and Christie. Thus, that potential appears to be far, far, far, away. While at the same time, and this is where the rub is, UConn has been very, very successful with 3 national championships in 2013/4 alone.

One question though, you said Arkansas fans took a train to the football game from Manhattan. Did they have buses that run from the New Brunswick train station to High Point Stadium (or the RAC)? It’s a not an easy 3 mile hike from the train station and that part of Rutgers’ campus to the campus where the football stadium is. The route involves crossing the river on an old narrow bridge or on a small side walk on a 4 lane highway bridge. Plus, once across the Raritan, the most direct route to the stadium, River Road, which is a heavily travelled, boulevard like road with 4 lanes of divided, high speed traffic, has no sidewalks. I would not make that hike, especially carrying tailgate gear and/or at night. Everyone I know who has tickets drives to the game.

Yeah, they have busses because I've actually done it before for the Uconn games coming from NYC. I also have a buddy who's a fan. It's actually not that bad but it's not like the train drops you off in front of the stadium. Honestly, it's a perfectly fine cfb atmosphere they have going on down there. Decent tailgating at least among the more mature late 30's set like myself.

I actually think that the best scenario for us is if Rutgers keeps doing what they do: Have moderate semi-success at football. If they fall on their face I don't think anyone will grab Uconn to save the day and conversely if they start competing at a high level, then the perception is they might not need us.

The whole thing just sucks so bad.

 

[clmssun]

You are clearly blinded by your hatred of RU so much that you are incapable of grasping the obvious point that myself and others have attempted to make. RU is in the conference for 1 reason and 1 reason only... $.

Does Delany like the fact that they are an AAU Member? Yes. How about the fact that they are contiguous to PA? Yes again. Their spending money to upgrade High Point Stadium didn't hurt either. If you want to include some sort of historic significance to RU that's fine too. All these things considered ultimately mean nothing if there was not a vehicle to monetize NJ Cable subscribers. The B1G was not inviting Rutgers or any school if they didn't think they could make money on them. It is just that simple.

RU's athletic history may be brutal, and their in state support is probably lukewarm at best, but unless all cable subscribers in NJ start dropping their subscriptions en masse, then Delany made a good move. UCONN's issue is not its academic profile, which is good, or its athletics which are excellent, its the number of cable homes in CT. As the dynamics of CR change, this may become less of an issue for The B1G.

As I think many here agree, UConn-to-the-B1G was really never considered (by anyone here nor probably in B1G offices) until Rutgers was first considered and added. With the blatant exception of athletic performance, Rutgers (and Maryland) is even (at worst) or superior to UConn in every other metric -- even if just slightly -- relevant to conference realignment, and thus B1G took Rutgers (and Maryland) first.

Given the deliberate expansion history of B1G, I don't think any rational person would have expected Delany to take more than two in any round of expansion -- past, present, or future. Given the previous history of the B1G, the addition of Rutgers and Maryland so soon after Nebraska caught me by surprise -- just my perspective.

 

[Pat125]

I think the "going away" party thrown by the ACC has helped warm them up to B1G.

Maryland was in the ACC for over 60 years. Up until the end Maryland and the fan base was happy to be in the ACC. But towards the end, it was my perception and others that Maryland was starting to feel like an outsider in the conference. Also, for better or worse, the conference changed. I was okay with ACC up until the ND partial invite (yes, I understand that for some reason, Maryland voted for the invite as well). So when the Big Ten invite came, I was surprised, but happy about the move.

Maryland's reasons had more to do with administration preference and finances perhaps. But if Maryland really thought the ACC was the best fit, they could have found a way to deal with the financial problems (e.g., change their own rules that the athletic budget be separate, and subsidize athletics, at least until they got their house in order.) Also, it appears most fans were initially not happy with the move. Maryland had some great rivalries, including Virginia and Duke. However, as Seaa Blue suggested, the "going away" party by the ACC helped matters. The Virginia fan poster who used to post here regularly, epitomized these grossly sour attitudes. And to listen to Coach Krzyzewski lecture us about tradition and loyalty with his $10 million salary was a pathetic joke. I have to wonder how loyalty and tradition would matter to him if Duke "only" paid him $2 million.

As for Virginia, I have no reason to doubt that, for now at least, they are happy in the ACC. But that can change. When Maryland and Virginia were in the Southern Conference, it was Virginia that decided to buck tradition first and left. Maryland (and others) eventually followed suit. We see there are more changes down the road with a new football subdivision. Who knows where Virginia will be or want to be in the near future.

 

[kyleslamb]

One only needs to look at a map and see what the Big Ten's expansion strategy has been.

- Nebraska, contiguous with Iowa to the West, great football brand that brings a lot of national recognition to TV broadcast
- Rutgers, contiguous with Pennsylvania to the East, located in NYC market
- Maryland, contiguous with Pennsylvania to the Southeast, located in DC market

Now look at the map again and you'll very easily see who the next logistical targets are:

- Kansas to the West
- Connecticut to the East
- Virginia to the South, which would possibly bridge further South to UNC

There is a method to the Big Ten's madness. While financials, branding and research have been the most important aspects of realignment for them, the goal all along was a slow, methodical process that branched outward geographically and ended before the 2017 media negotiations.

When the process began in 2010, I actually do not believe UConn was necessarily a short or long-term target. They were included in the initial market research, but I don't think there was much favor for them at the time. I think in the past year or so, though, there has been a lot of growing support internally as well as vocal support externally to make them a possible target. Since the Big Ten is looking to hammer home the East coast, they are now a very real, natural target.

 

[XOVERX]

Fact is, though, the ACC and Big 12 knows that it can't continue paying for the rights because that alone would not stop realignment from happening, so they will attempt to withhold payment altogether for the rights, which makes it nothing like the music industry which has been required to actually continue payment in exchange for rights. Thus, the only way to try to head off realignment and the leagues continuing "as is" would be if they breach the Grant of Rights.

For those of you who don't know it, Kyle S. Lamb is the man who actually obtained a copy of the B12 GOR and posted it online about a year ago. The B12 GOR was thoroughly picked over by myself and many others on the WVU Scout site (as well as on many other sites, including this one) at the time.

My take-away from the B12 GOR is this: The B12 GOR, in and of itself, is a significant "nuisance", but not an insurmountable hurdle, to the "right" B12 school leaving the B12 for another conference. The bottom line is that the B12 GOR contains no forfeiture provisions for TV money.

For purposes of illustration, assume, for example, Kansas wanted to migrate to the B1G and the B1G wanted Kansas in the worst way (to better drive home the point, substitute Texas for Kansas in the example). Under the B12 GOR, only Kansas' home games are affected (because the away school owns the TV rights to its own home games).

So Kansas' away games are TV revenue that flows into the B1G (more precisely, Kansas' away games at B1G venues). Plus, Kansas retains the rights to one football game (and 8 basketball games) as well -- this is the s0-called "B12 television Tier 3" situation that folks talk about from time-to-time. The TV revenue from this one Tier 3 football game also flows into the B1G, regardless of the B12 GOR.

Each year, even with Kansas being a member of the B1G, the B12 television pot gets divvied up among the B12 members and Kansas. To emphasize that last point: Kansas is now a member of the B1G, but Kansas' still gets its share of B12 TV disbursements at the end of each year.

The B12 GOR does not effect Kansas getting its share of B12 money because the B12 GOR does not contain any forfeiture provisions whatsoever. Zip. Zero. Nada.

As for Kansas and the B1G, Kansas would probably get a reduced share of B1G revenues until the end of the B12 GOR, at which time Kansas would graduate to a full share. I say a "reduced share" because the money Kansas gets from the B12 each year (which presumably would be paid over by Kansas to the B1G) would probably be less than would be earned by the B1G if Kansas were not subject to the B12 GOR. Thus, if the B1G wanted Kansas badly enough, obviously the B12 GOR could be worked around.

So what's the big deal with the B12 GOR, then?

None, really. The big deal is not the B12 GOR. It's a pain in the butt, it's a nuisance, at most, but the B12 GOR is not the show-stopper.

The show-stopper is the B12 Bylaws. It's the B12 Bylaws that contain the absolutely ferocious TV forfeiture language. The B12 Bylaws say, in paraphrase, that if you leave the B12 before the expiration of the B12 GOR, then you lose all of your home and away TV revenue until the expiration of the GOR (which expires in June 2025). All of it. Gone, gone, gone.

What's the B12 GOR this have to do with UVA, an ACC school subject to an entirely different GOR and Bylaws?

According to multiple news reports, the B12 "advised" the ACC when the ACC set up its GOR. Presumably the ACC also amended its Bylaws with language similar to the amended B12 Bylaws that contain the forfeiture language (but this is not clear).

If so, however, any school in the ACC (or B12) is going to have to have some pretty huge huevos if the school is going to migrate leagues before the end of the GOR. If you miscalculate, you may lose all of your TV money, if the GOR-Bylaws are upheld in court. Dangerous proposition for the school, dangerous proposition for any prospective new conference.

Are the Bylaws "legal"? I have no clue. Kyle S. Lamb points out on other boards that once a school withdraws from a league that school is no longer subject to the old league's Bylaws. Is this a "good" defense, overcoming the Bylaw's forfeiture provisions? I have no clue. Corporate law and corporate bylaws are way beyond my pay grade.

The GORs are a big deal, but not an insurmountable deal. The Bylaws, however, may be a whole 'nother thing. The Bylaws are certainly chilling factors of the first rank. Their existence will cause a school and a new conference considerable hesitation, I should think.

Therefore, like others, I have a serious question with respect to any B12 or ACC schools changing leagues prior to the expiration of those league's respective GORs. Conversely, if the ACC did not amend its Bylaws -- if there is no corresponding forfeiture language in the ACC -- then the ACC could well be picked apart long before the expiration of the ACC GOR. And that may great for UConn because ....

Personally, I think UConn is part of any move by Delany in going to 16. Delany has made it clear that he wants to finish off B1G ownership of the NE Corridor. UConn is the most logical school to finish off the northern end of the NE Corridor for the B1G since there really isn't any school in Massachusetts that fits the B1G criterion. UConn seems to be the best fit, other than UConn not yet being AAU. Similarly UVA is the most logical school to finish off the southern end of the NE Corridor. Delany may well consider UConn and UVA as near-perfect additions to the B1G.

OTOH, if the ACC GOR-Bylaws do contain forfeiture language, does UVA (or any ACC school, for that matter) migrate out of the ACC prior to the expiration of the ACC GOR? And if not, who in creation is there out there to pair with UConn to get to 16?

Well, there are SEC schools in general, and Missouri in specific. But would Mizz really leave the SEC -- a conference wherein they just played in the CCG, and a destination conference (but without a GOR)? Who knows? I don't think so, but who knows? Would any other SEC school bolt the SEC for the B1G? There's your questions because I don't see any school not a member of the ACC or B12 that are potential targets for the B1G.

That's all I got.

 

[UConn Dan]

XOVERX = m h ver 3

 

[whaler11]

huh?

Maryland joining has zero bearing on Virginia. Clearly Virginia wasn't too upset signing the GOR after the Terps announced.

Do you not think the Big 10 knew they couldn't get UNC or Virginia before they took Maryland and Rutgers?

You want Virginia, get UNC. You want UNC good luck.

 

[XOVERX]

XOVERX = m h ver 3

Please ... just my superior ability to spell vitiates this assertion.

 

[Sea Goat]

As I think many here agree, UConn-to-the-B1G was really never considered (by anyone here nor probably in B1G offices) until Rutgers was first considered and added. With the blatant exception of athletic performance, Rutgers (and Maryland) is even (at worst) or superior to UConn in every other metric -- even if just slightly -- relevant to conference realignment, and thus B1G took Rutgers (and Maryland) first.

Given the deliberate expansion history of B1G, I don't think any rational person would have expected Delany to take more than two in any round of expansion -- past, present, or future. Given the previous history of the B1G, the addition of Rutgers and Maryland so soon after Nebraska caught me by surprise -- just my perspective.

IMO, you're just plain wrong on the "every other metric" comment. However, I agree that the B1G has been deliberate in CR and watch UConn get settled there soon. Conversely, the ACC has engaged in some mystifying moves in CR. Said moves have been anything but deliberate. Reactionary and expedient better describes what the ACC has done in CR. Sure I'm bitter regarding the BS that UConn has gone through in this process, but for myriad reasons the B1G would be the best situation for us.

 

[kyleslamb]

Maryland joining has zero bearing on Virginia. Clearly Virginia wasn't too upset signing the GOR after the Terps announced.

Do you not think the Big 10 knew they couldn't get UNC or Virginia before they took Maryland and Rutgers?

You want Virginia, get UNC. You want UNC good luck.

Getting Virginia would destablize the ACC and would provide an avenue to get North Carolina. Frankly if Virginia left, you'd suddenly see the Big 12 trying to knock off Florida State and/or Clemson, the SEC trying to knock off Virginia Tech, NC State or North Carolina, etc. North Carolina would be up for grabs if Virginia decided to leave.

 

[UConn Dan]

Please ... just my superior ability to spell vitiates this assertion.

Haha. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You didn't mention any B1G sources so that's on the up and up, but you've got to admit the mention of WVU scout board along with the parallel of your screen name is suspect.

 

[whaler11]

Getting Virginia would destablize the ACC and would provide an avenue to get North Carolina. Frankly if Virginia left, you'd suddenly see the Big 12 trying to knock off Florida State and/or Clemson, the SEC trying to knock off Virginia Tech, NC State or North Carolina, etc. North Carolina would be up for grabs if Virginia decided to leave.

And getting North Dakota would be nice for Canada. I wonder if they are interested?

Do you not think they tried to get Virginia and North Carolina in the past?

Do you not realize Florida State didn't want to join the Big 12?

You guys have talked yourself into conspiracies that aren't in motion. They stayed with the ACC because they wanted to.

 

[kyleslamb]

Haha. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. You didn't mention any B1G sources so that's on the up and up, but you've got to admit the mention of WVU scout board along with the parallel of your screen name is suspect.

I'll vouch for him. I've conversed with him on a few boards in the past and found him extremely fair and not a hint of rumor mongering or sensationalism. He definitely does not belong being lumped with the WVU Insider Twitterati.

 

[kyleslamb]

And getting North Dakota would be nice for Canada. I wonder if they are interested?

Do you not think they tried to get Virginia and North Carolina in the past?

They had conversations, and ones in which Virginia showed some interest, but neither they nor the Big Ten ever were at the point where an offer was extended or could be refused. So did they try to get them? I would say the correct answer is "no" they did not. For them to try to get something, you have to actually ask for a commitment. The Big Ten did not do that. As I said in a previous post, the Big Ten had a methodical plan in place for expansion, and they weren't yet to the point of asking Virginia for their hand in marriage.

 

[whaler11]

They had conversations, and ones in which Virginia showed some interest, but neither they nor the Big Ten ever were at the point where an offer was extended or could be refused. So did they try to get them? I would say the correct answer is "no" they did not. For them to try to get something, you have to actually ask for a commitment. The Big Ten did not do that. As I said in a previous post, the Big Ten had a methodical plan in place for expansion, and they weren't yet to the point of asking Virginia for their hand in marriage.

And why wouldn't the Big 10 make an offer to Virginia. You don't think they understand the impact or it was clear they weren't going to accept.

You think Virginia was behind Maryland on their list? Or Rutgers? Okey dokey.

 

[kyleslamb]

And why wouldn't the Big 10 make an offer to Virginia. You don't think they understand the impact or it was clear they weren't going to accept.

You think Virginia was behind Maryland on their list? Or Rutgers? Okey dokey.

See Post No. 237. It's explained in very simple, easy-to-understand terms.

 

[whaler11]

See Post No. 237. It's explained in very simple, easy-to-understand terms.

Oh it's near Maryland I should have known that. Who cares if they aren't actually interested. Delany can just annex them on his own accord.

 

[pj]

I'd be curious if there is any talk at all on the Kentucky boards of going to the B1G. They're the other attractive contiguous state flagship along with Missouri, Virginia, UConn, and Kansas (setting Colorado off limits due to B1G-Pac friendship).

But not curious enough to actually hang out on Kentucky boards.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Oh it's near Maryland I should have known that. Who cares if they aren't actually interested. Delany can just annex them on his own accord.

On the other hand... Cavalier scorn is nothing like that of the Tar Heels. Regardless of what the fans think, I suppose if Teresa Sullivan and the board want to make a move, they have Delany's number.

Where did our Cavalier friend go? I think he just got mad and went home, correct? This would be much more fun with him around.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I'd be curious if there is any talk at all on the Kentucky boards of going to the B1G. They're the other attractive contiguous state flagship along with Missouri, Virginia, UConn, and Kansas (setting Colorado off limits due to B1G-Pac friendship).

But not curious enough to actually hang out on Kentucky boards.

Not AAU and too many metrics close or at the bottom of the Big Ten.

 

[dayooper]

On the other hand... Cavalier scorn is nothing like that of the Tar Heels. Regardless of what the fans think, I suppose if Teresa Sullivan and the board want to make a move, they have Delany's number.

Where did our Cavalier friend go? I think he just got mad and went home, correct? This would be much more fun with him around.

Stimpy took a break when Fishy put up the trolling rules pinned at the top of the board.

 

[SouthronCross]

Getting Virginia would destablize the ACC and would provide an avenue to get North Carolina. Frankly if Virginia left, you'd suddenly see the Big 12 trying to knock off Florida State and/or Clemson, the SEC trying to knock off Virginia Tech, NC State or North Carolina, etc. North Carolina would be up for grabs if Virginia decided to leave.

Neither UNC nor UVA would be the first to leave the ACC. Neither of them would want to be known as the school that began the league's demise. If FSU and/or Clemson made the (dumb) decision to jump to the Big 12, then, thats a whole different scenario.

 

[kyleslamb]

Neither UNC nor UVA would be the first to leave the ACC. Neither of them would want to be known as the school that began the league's demise. If FSU and/or Clemson made the (dumb) decision to jump to the Big 12, then, thats a whole different scenario.

I agree that UNC will not be the first to leave. I respectfully disagree that Virginia wouldn't consider it if a compelling offer came along. That said, I do believe that FSU or Clemson are more likely to leave first than UVA.