How Jim Calhoun's coaching career started

[HawkHusky]

Beginning to think that willie99 is Kevin Ollie.

 

[B1GEast]

Indiana considered a destination job?

I don't get your point

 

[Paesano]

all at Northeastern

1) 19-7
2) 12-11
3) 12-12
4) 12-13
5) 12-14
6) 14-12
7) 13-13

8) 19-8, then he started to become the legend that he is today

What I'm saying is that it takes time to find what works for you as a coach

How did Mike Davis' career start? Tubby Smith?

 

[TRest]

The basic premise here is never fire a coach because a decade or so later he may become a ball of famer.

 

[80shusky]

O.K. then are you trying to tell us we should lower our expectations because Ollie is going to need a few more seasons of experience? So what should we expect the next few seasons that would be reasonable? Is there a break point where we could expect someone to do better or should we just live with Ollie for another few seasons to see what he can do? I'm just wondering what you're willing to live with before a change should be made. What is that point or should Ollie be the head coach as long as he wants to stay at UConn?

And as a footnote remember that Ollie is making over $3 million a year to produce. I doubt UConn gave him that much to learn on the job for 7-10 years. Does anyone remember what he was being paid the first 2 seasons before he got a new deal? I guess UConn got a favorable deal those first 2 seasons.

What expectations will you be setting for the new coach?

 

[HuskyNan]

"just stop", because none of those guys did it in their first few years, that's my argument

It takes time

you can keep pretending coaches are great out of the gate, but I think that's delusional

Tom Izzo took Michigan State to the Final Four in his fourth year as a coach. It's his only gig as a head coach.

Jay Wright's first head coach job was at Hofstra, where he took them from perennial doormat to conference champion in his 6th season. After jumping to Villanova, he took them to the Elite 8 in five years.

 

[pj]

O.K. then are you trying to tell us we should lower our expectations because Ollie is going to need a few more seasons of experience? So what should we expect the next few seasons that would be reasonable? Is there a break point where we could expect someone to do better or should we just live with Ollie for another few seasons to see what he can do? I'm just wondering what you're willing to live with before a change should be made. What is that point or should Ollie be the head coach as long as he wants to stay at UConn?

And as a footnote remember that Ollie is making over $3 million a year to produce. I doubt UConn gave him that much to learn on the job for 7-10 years. Does anyone remember what he was being paid the first 2 seasons before he got a new deal? I guess UConn got a favorable deal those first 2 seasons.

Look, his salary is irrelevant because (a) it's sunk costs, he gets it whether he's our coach or not, and (b) it's only being paid because he won a national championship and was considered a hot commodity. The $10 million or whatever that he's overpaid should be viewed as the cost of our national championship.

I think the implication of those numbers is that it may make sense to invest a few more seasons in Ollie's learning curve. I can't judge whether Ollie is actually learning or not, but AD Dave Benedict is close to the situation and must be able to evaluate that accurately. I think KO did figure out how to fix recruiting with the Chill and Kill hires. Has he figured out how to motivate players and keep them on board? Has he figure out how to get them winning the effort categories like defense and rebounding? Has he figure out how to develop big men? Design an offense that makes use of a limited player skill set? We will see. AD Dave has to judge his progress on these metrics because, as willie points out, even great coaches take 8-10 years to figure out how to do these things. The progress will surely be visible to an insider several years before it is visible to us on the court. So if it is happening AD Dave should know.

 

[UConnNick]

Tom Izzo took Michigan State to the Final Four in his fourth year as a coach. It's his only gig as a head coach.

Jay Wright's first head coach job was at Hofstra, where he took them from perennial doormat to conference champion in his 6th season. After jumping to Villanova, he took them to the Elite 8 in five years.

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

 

[HuskyNan]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

Kinda my point.

 

[UCFan1513]

Beginning to think that willie99 is Kevin Ollie.

What if he read this

 

[pj]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

True enough. But shouldn't the fact that Wooden had a construction company owner sa a resource and KO doesn't count in KO's favor?

 

[UConnNick]

True enough. But shouldn't the fact that Wooden had a construction company owner sa a resource and KO doesn't count in KO's favor?

Ah yes, "Uncle" Sammy! Always ready with the "golden handshakes".

 

[HooperScooper]

What expectations will you be setting for the new coach?

Well I did say I wasn't advocating for Ollie's firing right now. I would say any coach, including Ollie, needs to get UConn in at least the top 3-4 of the AAC almost every season and the NCAA Tournament 2/3 of the time. I think that's a realistic goal.

 

[Waquoit]

I remember this guy on TV talking about horseplayers that I believe fits in this discussion. "I hear people say they have 20 years experience playing the horses." he says, "Do they really? Or do they have 1 year of experience repeated 20 times?" I haven't seen any growth or improvement from Ollie since Shabazz graduated. I've seen the same old slog every year for four years running now. Why does anyone think that this performance won't continue to repeat? What am I missing?

 

[Huskybass]

I remember this guy on TV talking about horseplayers that I believe fits in this discussion. "I hear people say they have 20 years experience playing the horses." he says, "Do they really? Or do they have 1 year of experience repeated 20 times?" I haven't seen any growth or improvement from Ollie since Shabazz graduated. I've seen the same old slog every year for four years running now. Why does anyone think that this performance won't continue to repeat? What am I missing?

You absolutely nailed it. You will get resistance from a handful of the Ollie defenders, but no logical reason to expect better performance.

 

[Mots010]

Sweet, we just have to wait 7 or 8 more seasons before we know Ollie is a horrible coach.

 

[champs99and04]

The OP has a point. I'm not surprised that people have chosen to not get it, but we can acknowledge the lack of a true apples-to-apples comparison while also recognizing the fact that the trajectory for great coaches is often not linear.

 

[Huskybass]

There are many distinguishing factors between our coach and the coaches who have been brought up in this thread. I am pretty sure by their 6th year as a head coach guys like Dean Smith were doing lots of things very well. What is it exactly that Kevin Ollie does very well?

 

[mauconnfan]

Teams have changed coaches over the years 10, 20 even more times over their basketball years. Imagine the number of Division 1 coaches since college basketball has become so great? And we mention what, 15-20 names a lot the great ones and the really good ones. It's obvious only a few programs have been lucky enough to have a JC, K, Knight, Smith, Izzo etc etc etc.....reach all you want there will never be another JC anyway never going to happen. KO needs to be a lot better no doubt, a lot but who's next? The one you guys may want could drive us into the ground for good you don't know. But I get it.

 

[willie99]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

Of course they are, it doesn't fit your narrative

Suggesting anything other than "it's over" or "Ollie has to go" or "the sky is falling" is all useless. Nothing else matters, daring to have a little perspective is just unacceptable.

The one thing you have right is that it's no predictor of future events, wasn't meant to be. The biggest difference is not the fact that experience is the world's greatest teacher, that's still true today. The biggest difference is that we have social media and an instant gratification society. Many great coaches would have been run out of town before they were given a chance to be successful.

At the end of the day, Ollie's not going anywhere anyhow, so I suppose y'all can choose to scream at the sky if it makes you feel better.

 

[Paesano]

Ok then, let's find the guy that has worked out the kinks and is starting to show progress. He may struggle for his first few years here, as he brings in his players, but we won't have to wait 15 years to see if he is a decent coach. It worked for us with that Calhoun guy. Jimbo may not be walking through that door but I would take half of a Jimbo right now.

 

[pj]

I remember this guy on TV talking about horseplayers that I believe fits in this discussion. "I hear people say they have 20 years experience playing the horses." he says, "Do they really? Or do they have 1 year of experience repeated 20 times?" I haven't seen any growth or improvement from Ollie since Shabazz graduated. I've seen the same old slog every year for four years running now. Why does anyone think that this performance won't continue to repeat? What am I missing?

KO just replaced his inherited assistant coaches with his own guys. That means he's changing and he's learning what he needs to be successful. Give him time, he'll change other things. He has to have a full roster that includes two point guards.

 

[Huskybass]

KO just replaced his inherited assistant coaches with his own guys. That means he's changing and he's learning what he needs to be successful. Give him time, he'll change other things. He has to have a full roster that includes two point guards.

I appreciate your optimism, however, how is the team so unprepared that they have to go to overtime with Monmouth and Columbia, and fall behind winless Coppin State 8-0? UConn has talent those teams can only dream of, yet struggles to put those teams away. Based on the disparity in talent alone, all three of those games should be easy wins to say the least.

 

[pj]

I appreciate your optimism, however, how is the team so unprepared that they have to go to overtime with Monmouth and Columbia, and fall behind winless Coppin State 8-0? UConn has talent those teams can only dream of, yet struggles to put those teams away. Based on the disparity in talent alone, all three of those games should be easy wins to say the least.

He has more changes to make. He does make them too slowly, he's only gradually shifting the style of play designed for an Alterique-Jalen backcourt (e.g. 3 guards) to what he needs to play without Alterique, even though Alterique has been almost useless since the Oregon game Nov 24, 2 weeks ago. He needs to be smarter. But, he's trying.

 

[Husky25]

Indiana considered a destination job?

All due respect, Dub, but There is a huge difference between how the transfer of power occurred at UConn and Indiana.

Ollie was Calhoun's hand picked successor, someone who he would be able to mentor along the way. If Calhoun saw something in him he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

According to ESPN in 2005 (back when they were a marginal UConn ally), Knight says he did not think too highly of Davis, but there was no way Indiana was going to take Knight's recommendation, given the way they parted ways.

"I stayed at Indiana six years too long because of the administration. The administration handled a lot of things poorly," Knight told Sporting News Radio on Saturday, after his Red Raiders upset Gonzaga to reach the Sweet 16. "I was working for an athletic director [former IU AD Clarence Doninger] that didn't know his [expletive] from third base. I ended up staying because of the kids that I liked and the people I did like rather than focusing on the real negatives there."

Knight, who coached at Indiana for 29 years and won three national championships, was fired in 2000 for violating a "zero tolerance" behavior policy by grabbing the arm of a student who he said greeted him by his last name. Knight sued two years later, claiming the university violated his employment contract. The lawsuit was eventually dismissed.
...

"They created that for themselves," Knight said in the Sporting News Radio interview. "The guy that's coaching there [Mike Davis] is a guy that I told Pat [Knight, his son and assistant coach] we were going to replace at the end of the season. There's no way that I would have kept the guy any longer than that. [But] That's their [Indiana] problem."

 

[August_West]

All due respect, Dub, but There is a huge difference between how the transfer of power occurred at UConn and Indiana.

Maybe.

But is Indiana considered a destination job?

 

[tentoes4rings]

KO just replaced his inherited assistant coaches with his own guys. That means he's changing and he's learning what he needs to be successful. Give him time, he'll change other things. He has to have a full roster that includes two point guards.

PJ, how much “time” do you propose we give him? He could have had two point guards if he didn’t lose MAL. Putting so much hope and dependency on a kid coming off his second shoulder surgery wasn’t great planning.

I do appreciate your optimism but let’s not pretend KO has just been extremely unlucky and call it like it is and admit a lot of the roster issues the past 4 years have been due to his mistakes.

 

[Husky25]

Maybe.

But is Indiana considered a destination job?

By virtue of being in the Big Ten, yes. On the other hand, Davis, Sampson, and what Crean walked into didn't too a whole heck of a lot to maintain it's culture after Bobby Knight left.

Calhoun was a coach from a different generation and it is an impossible task for Ollie to live up to those standards, given the change in environment and situation. That is why it is not desirable to follow the legend, rather than to replace the guy who follows the legend.

Honestly, I don't think offense is as big of an issue for this team at this point than defense. They let a 3 point shooting specialist who averaged less than 6 points a game through 9 go off for more than 30.

Ollie said at the beginning of the year, he wanted to press more and run (Of course almost every coach says that). Coppin State was the first game they actually did, but 1) It's tough to press of your own misses, and 2) it's tough to run when the opposition shoots near 50%. Having a guard in the backcourt, but not really challenging the opposition over the timeline does not a press make.

 

[pj]

PJ, how much “time” do you propose we give him? He could have had two point guards if he didn’t lose MAL. Putting so much hope and dependency on a kid coming off his second shoulder surgery wasn’t great planning.

I do appreciate your optimism but let’s not pretend KO has just been extremely unlucky and call it like it is and admit a lot of the roster issues the past 4 years have been due to his mistakes.

Agreed on the last point, the issue is whether he has learned and will avoid those mistakes in the future.

I think this year like last it's impossible to judge KO because without a true point guard, the team is going to struggle. Next year he will have his roster with his players and his coaches. He has to perform with it. I think he gets to the end of 2018-19 season and if he doesn't make the 2019 tourney, then he has failed.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Did say anything other to give this team time. Nobody should lower expectations, but no reasonable person should think this team is going to play like national titles contenders 5 weeks into the season with two returning rotation players AND once again hampered by injuries

The lack of returning rotation players is largely due to transfers, why can’t you see that Willie? Injuries happen to every team. We’re down ONE player, albeit an important one. Successful programs find ways to overcome injuries, usually through quality depth. Last season’s injury situation was devastating but with only one injured player this year, we have enough talent to play significantly better.