How Jim Calhoun's coaching career started

[UConnNick]

Of course they are, it doesn't fit your narrative

Suggesting anything other than "it's over" or "Ollie has to go" or "the sky is falling" is all useless. Nothing else matters, daring to have a little perspective is just unacceptable.

The one thing you have right is that it's no predictor of future events, wasn't meant to be. The biggest difference is not the fact that experience is the world's greatest teacher, that's still true today. The biggest difference is that we have social media and an instant gratification society. Many great coaches would have been run out of town before they were given a chance to be successful.

At the end of the day, Ollie's not going anywhere anyhow, so I suppose y'all can choose to scream at the sky if it makes you feel better.

Hey willie, you're preaching to the wrong choir here. I've largely been what some here have described as a "pollyanna".

I still don't put much stock in side-by-side coaching comparisons, especially from different eras.

Due to last season's injury epidemic, I have often stated I'm willing to give Ollie this season to turn things around. I will likely be looking for a change if he can't make that happen. I also agree that it's going to be very difficult financially to get rid of him, even if the AD wants to.

 

[BRG 1]

This is an idiotic premise and that is frankly extremely disingenuous.

Citing a few hall of fame coaches that are considered the best in their sport, who started out slow, while ignoring the literally thousands of head coaches who started out slow, because they were frankly bad.

Post this all you want, because it is a fact, but to be angry when people say its completely irrelevant is absurd.

These examples are called outliers. It's like telling your son that he's going to the NBA after being cut from his freshman high school basketball team just because the same thing happened to Michael Jordan. Sure, KO could become Dean Smith, Coach K, JC, but the odds are not in his favor and I'm not sure we've seen anything to suggest that a future turnaround is immanent

When Tim Welsh came to PC he brought stability, as previous coaches (Pete Gillen, Rick Barnes, Rick Pitino) used PC as a stepping stone to bigger high profile jobs. But with stability came mediocrity, followed by a bad hire.
It is tough to be the guy who follows a Hall of Famer (see Steve Spurrier / Ron Zook) even though Ollie was hand selected.
Can Ollie turn it around or is it mediocrity?

 

[Paesano]

Good god, another one who thinks he knows what other people are saying behind the scenes, so much so that he has the audacity to call posters like me "hopeless" if they don't know what Jim Calhoun is REALLY saying in private

Exasperating sigh

Jesus, you are blind. Look at the man's body language at the games. Look at what he is saying in other interviews and, more importantly, what he is not saying and what he is avoiding. The picture is there, staring you in the face, but you refuse to see it.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The fan base already disappear in football and it is not coming back. The sad reality is that with the AAC, we will not have an excited base because most casual fan do not care for playing football against Tulsa, Tulane etc. They watch 1-3 games a yr. The attendance against our old big east rivals in basketball will be a better gauge of our fans impact. I went to the Providence game and it was UCONN 2/1 over Prov fans. I know one sure way to an empty arena for the program is to fire Ollie, destroyed our recruiting for 2018 and 2019. None of the coaches being mentioned has any pedigree to bring in high level recruits for the AAC. Now if we have 8 million a yr for somebody like Donovan with the state budget. He probably cant do any better

That’s BS try actually establishing a winning tradition . Go 11-0 and see if you can get a ticket
We’re playing in the very best non P5 conference that has produced good football and had actual drawn
Stop blaming a conference you have won a dozen games in 5 years for your own screw-ups

 

[traitor71]

Did say anything other to give this team time. Nobody should lower expectations, but no reasonable person should think this team is going to play like national titles contenders 5 weeks into the season with two returning rotation players AND once again hampered by injuries

National title contender? This team doesn't even look like a contender for the top half of the AAC. People should be content with this?

 

[Kitaman]

Who made an excuse? Just pointing out history

Ollie had a program on the mountaintop and considered elite in the basketball world. To me his only job in the early part of his career, was to not see UConn descend to the ranks of irrelevance. Oh the others you mentioned jobs was to ascend their programs which gives them latitude and time (luxuries for a coach).

Programs on top rarely never bring in rookies. Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, UCLA and other blue bloods didn't do that and they remain relevant. Even Texas went out and replaced Barnes with Smart, and Arizona went and got Miller both 'not settling'.

Sadly with declining post season NCAA appearances, middle of the pack conference ranking, no NBA player accessions, and mediocre season records we have descended so quickly that we are becoming a irrelevant and certainly less attractive to our fan base (empty seats) and national media.

Ollie does not have the time and latitude afforded the HOFer's you mentioned, because UConn is not looking to become an elite program but looking to remain one. Our Coach needs to prove he belongs, and that is done through winning games (a whole lot of them), conference domination and post season successes.

Anyway, I think Tom Izzo who had some assistant coaching experience and took over a well known and established Big Ten program as his 1st head coaching gig, is a better one to make Ollie comparisons to:

1995-96 Michigan State Big Ten 32 16-16 .500
1996-97 Michigan State Big Ten 29 17-12 .586
1997-98 Michigan State Big Ten 30 22-8 .733 NCAA Tournament; Reg. Season Champion
1998-99 Michigan State Big Ten 38 33-5 .868 NCAA Tournament; Reg. Season Champion; Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA FF
1999-00 Michigan State Big Ten 39 32-7 .821 NCAA Tournament; Reg. Season Champion; Conf. Tournament Champion; NCAA FF; NCAA Champion
2000-01 Michigan State Big Ten 33 28-5 .848 NCAA Tournament; Reg. Season Champion; NCAA FF

 

[willie99]

 

[Huskybass]

I'm sure it's been said but I don't feel like reading everything... Using JC and K at MID-MAJORS with little to no legacy is like comparing apples to ferrari's. KO took a team that had won three national championships in 15 years and has "coached" into struggling with a 0-9 Coppin State team. For years, most of us fought off the criticism that KO just won w/ JCs players. But I can't do it anymore. Did he do a great job coaching that team? Of course. But they still had a JC stamp on them. What we've done since then is mediocre at best and he has pedaled out the same excuses and we have come up with every rationale for why things have gone south. But I cannot take any more "we've got to execute the game plan" or "we didn't come out with the energy we needed." That's YOUR JOB. And if you are doing it to the best abilities and the players are not playing for you, then the disconnect is far too extreme to fix.

Boog,

For years I dismissed the notion that KO "won with JC's players", but can no longer due so. The body of work since 2014 is so underwhelming and in stark contrast to 2012-2014 that any objective person would conclude that JC's players were indeed vital to KO's early success.

What amazes me is that this team consistently finishes 5th in the AAC and never challenges for the league regular season title, despite often having the most talented roster. Mediocrity gets old quick.

 

[The Funster]

KO was handed the keys to a well established program and in the last three years has done nothing but drive it into the guard rails over and over again. Did anyone see him in the 2nd half of the Coppin State game? He was hanging his head like he was beaten. It looked like he wanted to give up. His team let an 0-9 team hang around and they almost pulled it off.

 

[Husky25]

His team let an 0-9 team hang around and they almost pulled it off.

UConn certainly needs to improve (especially on their perimeter defense), but that is a bit of an overstatement. Once UConn took the lead, the game wasn't really in doubt. They seemed to pull away when they needed to.

Take away the 0-8 run to start the game (should never happen at home to a team like Coppin St, but it did) and UConn wins by 21.

Those are 2 (perimeter defense and lethargic start)/3 of what UConn must improve going forward. The other is turnovers.

I liked the press. They should get into it from Jump Street. Not wait until they are down 8.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nope, even the great ones had to learn the ropes, with my point being "it takes time" to find your inner self in a tough profession

I agree with your general premise. It's the reason why I thought it was really a dumb move to hire Kevin Ollie. Like Donyell at Central and almost all others, you need to start at a lesser program with lower pressure. UConn should have hired an experienced HC that had already gotten past those early stumbles.

 

[Chief00]

He pushed a reset button after last year, and kids didn't like what they heard left. I have no problem with that. Many thought at that time this season was already going to be a total disaster, but he managed to resurrect some hope. All his detractors argued he'll never be able to recruit kids to come here again, he already proved that to be wrong. A highly regarded recruit decommitted after the coach that recruited him was fired, that's collateral damage.

And this year's team will be better, with more time together and the more distance we put behind us with respect to Larrier's injury. Gilbert's loss CANNOT be simply discounted as meaningless, and not recruiting over him should not be called his fault either. Kids know Gilbert is here, we can't hide that, and Gilbert deserves some respect for choosing us to begin with.

We were in a bad place just 6 or 7 short months ago, and significant progress has been made since then. So once again I'm going to argue he needs more time, especially since he's not going anywhere.

Agree, Chill has helped KO make progress on the recruiting front. KO needs to get out in front of things much quicker in games and make adjustments.
Maybe, in part due to Gilbert - I have not seen much progress moving towards a rotation.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Maybe.

But is Indiana considered a destination job?

Top hoops program in the Big Ten historically. Probably top ten all time. Has fallen on hard times, but the right coach could make it a big winner. Huge following.

 

[August_West]

Top hoops program in the Big Ten historically. Probably top ten all time. Has fallen on hard times, but the right coach could make it a big winner. Huge following.

And how many coaching changes since Bob Knight (Indianas Calhoun) left?

 

[JeepCSC]

Indiana had many built-in advantages when Knight was forced out, but they squandered it with the Davis hire and salted the earth with the Sampson hire. Crean took a decimated program and made it respectable, but he spent so long cleaning up the mess he walked in on that he became associated with losing for many IU fans. All this was going on while Izzo surpassed IU as the preeminent B10 team and Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin and others were pushing IU even below them. IU is a cautionary tale that no program is immune with the wrong hire and poor AD leadership.

 

[Waquoit]

That Steve Alford didn't want the it tells me all I need to know about the Indiana job.

 

[August_West]

Indiana had many built-in advantages when Knight was forced out, but they squandered it with the Davis hire and salted the earth with the Sampson hire. Crean took a decimated program and made it respectable, but he spent so long cleaning up the mess he walked in on that he became associated with losing for many IU fans. All this was going on while Izzo surpassed IU as the preeminent B10 team and Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin and others were pushing IU even below them. IU is a cautionary tale that no program is immune with the wrong hire and poor AD leadership.

But somehow with less resources and less fan support we expect a grand slam coaching hire when replacing KO.

 

[JeepCSC]

But somehow with less resources and less fan support we expect a grand slam coaching hire when replacing KO.

Not every hire will be slam-dunks, not at UNC, not at Kentucky, and not at UConn. But when you mess up, you can’t double-down or you will be in a death spiral before you know it. IU’s first mistake was hiring Davis, then allowing him 6 years, and the coup de grace was hiring Sampson. And that’s of course ignoring the ship show that was Knight’s final months. That’s a lesson in how not to run a major program.

All that said, I’m not suggesting Ollie is Davis though obviously the parallels can be seen if you wish. But keeping him just because is not a good enough reason. If you think a change should be made, you can’t worry about the following step of what is next. IU made a series of bad decisions. But keeping Davis was not the opposite of hiring Sampson. Not hiring Sampson is the opposite of hiring Sampson. Sampson came because they kept Davis as long as they did (and probably because IU officials were drunk). You make a bad decision, mitigate it, and try to make a smarter decision next time.

 

[Husky25]

And that’s of course ignoring the ship show that was Knight’s final months. That’s a lesson in how not to run a major program.

The wheels fell off the Hoosier train long before Knight's ultimate demise. Indiana didn't achieve the second weekend of the Tournament in Knight's final 6 seasons (and didn't see the first weekend in 4 of those.) I remember talk back then of Indiana making the Tournament basically based mostly on reputation.

 

[Blaneylover]

all at Northeastern

1) 19-7
2) 12-11
3) 12-12
4) 12-13
5) 12-14
6) 14-12
7) 13-13

8) 19-8, then he started to become the legend that he is today

What I'm saying is that it takes time to find what works for you as a coach

I think that this is a very fair point, but those numbers can fool you. JC was building that program from nothing during the early 1970's. He was basically starting from scratch. HCKO came in as the chosen successor. He had a program in place with tradition and with players. I think that he will be a better coach five years from now than he is now, but I am not sure that Mr. Benedict will be able to wait for the improvement.

 

[Husky25]

What the hell do you expect him to say?!?!?! It is the exact right thing to say in this situation. If you think that is what he is saying in private too, well, you are hopeless.

I'd say that is a bit harsh.

In the nearly 30 years I've been following UConn basketball, I've never known Calhoun to mince words. Even when they would blow Marathon Oil out by 30 in the mid 90's, he would pick out a few nuggets they needed to work on. Now, he's going to sugar coat it all of a sudden? Seems unlikely.

 

[Kenny11]

I think the thread starter pointed out something important that needs to be considered.
But there are 2 things that are also noteworthy:
1. Nobody (especially people in power) has the same kind of patience in athletics or anything else as they may have had 30+ years ago....not to mention media, bloggers, tweeters etc magnify everything and increase pressure.
2. Ollie seems to be getting worse and not better. I am not only talking about results (last year would be an impossible situation for any coach) but the strategy, game plans, and overall cohesion. For example, I don't know what the hell we are doing on defense by double teaming and over-helping on the ball handlers to give up so many unnecessary wide open 3s.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I think that this is a very fair point, but those numbers can fool you. JC was building that program from nothing during the early 1970's. He was basically starting from scratch. HCKO came in as the chosen successor. He had a program in place with tradition and with players. I think that he will be a better coach five years from now than he is now, but I am not sure that Mr. Benedict will be able to wait for the improvement.

You implication is when JC inherited UConn he had no players
That’s not true in fact he had better Bigs than KO has ever had in Cliff
Robinson. Future NBA all-star and sixth man award winner
Plus 6-10 Jeff King and Gerry Bessilink
5 guys averaged in double figures on that team.
(The Big East was a brutal league mid 80’s )
Cliff and Gary averaged close to double figures in rebounds.
He had a guy who was a very good shooter at the 2-3 in Phil Gamble the NIT mvp as a sophomore.
He had a young Tate George and a more experienced but injury prone Steve Pikell
Boy would I love to have a Cliffy, Phil,and Tate on this years team. Talk about the exact missing pieces.
JC Big East record his first three years was the same as Perno’s last three and worst years.
The Big difference is Perno’s teams kept getting worse culminated by the suspension of his star player Earl Kelly over a gun incident. Jim Calhoun came into the picture that year when Perno’s 8-0 UConn team was blown out by his Northeastern team in our own Christmas tournament that we use to call the “Cupcake Classic”. That was shocking and There was the sense Dom had lost control of the program.
Even though JC had an unauspicious Big East start there was little doubt the program was headed in the right direction and that he was in complete control.
The fact he won the NIT with Perno players never seemed to come up.LOL

 

[Waquoit]

Notice how nobody, including Ollie supporters, is saying Ollie is doing a good job in these threads.

 

[8893]

Notice how nobody, including Ollie supporters, is saying Ollie is doing a good job in these threads.

What's his handle?