How Jim Calhoun's coaching career started

[Huskybass]

I'd say that is a bit harsh.

In the nearly 30 years I've been following UConn basketball, I've never known Calhoun to mince words. Even when they would blow Marathon Oil out by 30 in the mid 90's, he would pick out a few nuggets they needed to work on. Now, he's going to sugar coat it all of a sudden? Seems unlikely.

He is still on the UConn payroll in some capacity. He isn't going to trash the program he is still involved with.

 

[Huskybass]

You implication is when JC inherited UConn he had no players
That’s not true in fact he had better Bigs than KO has ever had in Cliff
Robinson. Future NBA all-star and sixth man award winner
Plus 6-10 Phil King and Gary Bessilink
5 guys averaged in double figures on that team.
(The Big East was a brutal league mid 80’s )
Cliff and Gary averaged close to double figures in rebounds.
He had a guy who was a very good shooter at the 2-3 in Phil Gamble the NIT mvp as a sophomore.
He had a young Tate George and a more experienced but injury prone Steve Pikell
Boy would I love to have a Cliffy, Phil,and Tate on this years team. Talk about the exact missing pieces.
JC Big East record his first three years was the same as Perno’s last three and worst years.
The Big difference is Perno’s teams kept getting worse culminated by the suspension of his star player Earl Kelly over a gun incident. Jim Calhoun came into the picture that year when Perno’s 8-0 UConn team was blown out by his Northeastern team in our own Christmas tournament that we use to call the “Cupcake Classic”. That was shocking and There was the sense Dom had lost control of the program.
Even though JC had an unauspicious Big East start there was little doubt the program was headed in the right direction and that he was in complete control.
The fact he won the NIT with Perno players never seemed to come up.LOL

First of all, it was Jeff King. Second of all, it was Gerry Besselink and he was gone before the NIT championship that Jeff King and Phil Gamble were part of. Get some facts and come back to see me.

 

[Husky25]

He is still on the UConn payroll in some capacity. He isn't going to trash the program he is still involved with.

He did when he was head coach.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

And how many coaching changes since Bob Knight (Indianas Calhoun) left?

Exactly what we are proposing to do.

Does this fact (the coaching changes) support your stance (give ollie time) or contradict it?

 

[August_West]

Exactly what we are proposing to do.

Does this fact (the coaching changes) support your stance (give ollie time) or contradict it?

Has Indiana achieved greatness since?

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Has Indiana achieved greatness since?

Man you are the king of deflection.

And to answer: Nope.

And right back at ya: Would UNC have achieved greatness if it kept Guthridge (or Doherty) around???

 

[AZHuskiePop]

First of all, it was Jeff King. Second of all, it was Gerry Besselink and he was gone before the NIT championship that Jeff King and Phil Gamble were part of. Get some facts and come back to see me.

Sorry my regrets to the late Jeff King sorry if it offended you or your sensibilities
No disrespect meant.
I’m well aware the Gerry was a senior on the first JC team
Other than my senior moment with names my facts are correct.
Bad habit of mine .
I never said he played on the NIT team but he did play on the 86 team were 5 guys averaged double figures and he averaged a double.
To say JC did not inherit him would be an error
For people who don’t remember him Spider Ursery might of only aveageged three a game but his points seemed o always come at a critical time

NIT team
Clifford Robinson C 6-10 17.6 Pts, 6.9 Reb, 1.3 Ast
Phil Gamble G 6-4 15.0 Pts, 3.9 Reb, 1.8 Ast
Tate George G 6-5 9.9 Pts, 2.9 Reb, 5.6 Ast
Jeff King F 6-10 6.1 Pts, 3.4 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Willie McCloud F 6-5 5.1 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Murray Williams F 6-6 5.0 Pts, 3.5 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Lyman DePriest F 6-5 3.9 Pts, 3.7 Reb, 1.4 Ast
Robert Ursery F 6-5 3.2 Pts, 2.0 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Steve Pikiell G 6-4 2.5 Pts, 1.2 Reb, 1.9 Ast
Greg Economou G 6-3 3.1 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.4 Ast
Vassilis Lanes F 6-8 2.2 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Clint Simmons G 6-0 0.4 Pts, 0.2 Reb, 0.0 Ast
James Spradling F 6-8 0.2 Pts, 0.3 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Of the guys on that team only Williams , Depriest and Mcloud were not holdovers were JC recruits.
This is JC first team
Jeff King F 6-10 11.8 Pts, 5.5 Reb, 0.7 Ast
Clifford Robinson C 6-10 18.1 Pts, 7.4 Reb, 2.0 Ast
Gerry Besselink C 6-9 10.3 Pts, 10.7 Reb, 1.6 Ast
Tate George G 6-5 10.0 Pts, 3.6 Reb, 6.0 Ast
Phil Gamble G 6-4 11.1 Pts, 4.7 Reb, 2.3 Ast
Steve Pikiell G 6-4 8.2 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 2.5 Ast
Robert Ursery F 6-5 3.9 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Greg Economou G 6-3 3.5 Pts, 1.4 Reb, 0.5 Ast
James Spradling F 6-8 0.9 Pts, 0.9 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Kurt Bauer G 5-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Brian Hall G 6-2 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Karsten Kibbe F 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Jeff Lewis G 5-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast

 

[Waquoit]

Gerry Besselink and he was gone before the NIT championship ...

Speaking of Gerry Besselink, he had 3 years of forgettable play under Perno. Senior year JC comes to town and he leads the team in rebounding with a 10.7 rpg average (2nd or 3rd in Big East, iirc). To put that into perspective, Besselink is 1 of only 3 UConn players (with Okafor, Thabeet) to average double figures in rebounding since the Big East was established. That's how you coach up a player. Trying support Ollie by saying JC won with Perno players is just plain stupid. Perno didn't win with Perno players.

 

[Huskybass]

Sorry my regrets to the late Jeff King sorry if it offended you or your sensibilities
No disrespect meant.
I’m well aware the Gerry was a senior on the first JC team
Other than my senior moment with names my facts are correct.
Bad habit of mine .
I never said he played on the NIT team but he did play on the 86 team were 5 guys averaged double figures and he averaged a double.
To say JC did not inherit him would be an error
For people who don’t remember him Spider Ursery might of only aveageged three a game but his points seemed o always come at a critical time

NIT team
Clifford Robinson C 6-10 17.6 Pts, 6.9 Reb, 1.3 Ast
Phil Gamble G 6-4 15.0 Pts, 3.9 Reb, 1.8 Ast
Tate George G 6-5 9.9 Pts, 2.9 Reb, 5.6 Ast
Jeff King F 6-10 6.1 Pts, 3.4 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Willie McCloud F 6-5 5.1 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Murray Williams F 6-6 5.0 Pts, 3.5 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Lyman DePriest F 6-5 3.9 Pts, 3.7 Reb, 1.4 Ast
Robert Ursery F 6-5 3.2 Pts, 2.0 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Steve Pikiell G 6-4 2.5 Pts, 1.2 Reb, 1.9 Ast
Greg Economou G 6-3 3.1 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.4 Ast
Vassilis Lanes F 6-8 2.2 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Clint Simmons G 6-0 0.4 Pts, 0.2 Reb, 0.0 Ast
James Spradling F 6-8 0.2 Pts, 0.3 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Of the guys on that team only Williams , Depriest and Mcloud were not holdovers were JC recruits.
This is JC first team
Jeff King F 6-10 11.8 Pts, 5.5 Reb, 0.7 Ast
Clifford Robinson C 6-10 18.1 Pts, 7.4 Reb, 2.0 Ast
Gerry Besselink C 6-9 10.3 Pts, 10.7 Reb, 1.6 Ast
Tate George G 6-5 10.0 Pts, 3.6 Reb, 6.0 Ast
Phil Gamble G 6-4 11.1 Pts, 4.7 Reb, 2.3 Ast
Steve Pikiell G 6-4 8.2 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 2.5 Ast
Robert Ursery F 6-5 3.9 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Greg Economou G 6-3 3.5 Pts, 1.4 Reb, 0.5 Ast
James Spradling F 6-8 0.9 Pts, 0.9 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Kurt Bauer G 5-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Brian Hall G 6-2 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Karsten Kibbe F 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Jeff Lewis G 5-9 0.0 Pts, 0.0 Reb, 0.0 Ast

I was at UConn at the time, those teams were not exactly loaded with talent. Getting Chris Smith was huge and was the beginning of becoming a top notch program as they made the Elite Eight in 89-90 with a much stronger roster than the one Calhoun inherited in 86-87.

 

[Kitaman]

You implication is when JC inherited UConn he had no players
That’s not true in fact he had better Bigs than KO has ever had in Cliff
Robinson. Future NBA all-star and sixth man award winner
Plus 6-10 Phil King and Gary Bessilink
5 guys averaged in double figures on that team.
(The Big East was a brutal league mid 80’s )
Cliff and Gary averaged close to double figures in rebounds.
He had a guy who was a very good shooter at the 2-3 in Phil Gamble the NIT mvp as a sophomore.
He had a young Tate George and a more experienced but injury prone Steve Pikell
Boy would I love to have a Cliffy, Phil,and Tate on this years team. Talk about the exact missing pieces.
JC Big East record his first three years was the same as Perno’s last three and worst years.
The Big difference is Perno’s teams kept getting worse culminated by the suspension of his star player Earl Kelly over a gun incident. Jim Calhoun came into the picture that year when Perno’s 8-0 UConn team was blown out by his Northeastern team in our own Christmas tournament that we use to call the “Cupcake Classic”. That was shocking and There was the sense Dom had lost control of the program.
Even though JC had an unauspicious Big East start there was little doubt the program was headed in the right direction and that he was in complete control.
The fact he won the NIT with Perno players never seemed to come up.LOL

Thanks for memory lane. Your post reminds me that Ollie needs a Chris Smith. I thought Jalen was the one, and might still be. Calhoun's experience (and gift perhaps) was his ability to understand what he had and utilize it to the team's advantage. More importantly he had a knack of finding the missing pieces to complete his team dream.

In Jalen, Larrier and hopefully AG, Ollie has something to work with. Also this is his first real team, so I ready to give him a couple more seasons. Just saying he (and staff) really needs to get that signature recruit in very soon, or we may become irrelevant. I go back to Jalen though, he could be the one but after two seasons I'm not seeing it. And I really believe its not all his fault.

 

[dennismenace]

Look, his salary is irrelevant because (a) it's sunk costs, he gets it whether he's our coach or not, and (b) it's only being paid because he won a national championship and was considered a hot commodity. The $10 million or whatever that he's overpaid should be viewed as the cost of our national championship.

I think the implication of those numbers is that it may make sense to invest a few more seasons in Ollie's learning curve. I can't judge whether Ollie is actually learning or not, but AD Dave Benedict is close to the situation and must be able to evaluate that accurately. I think KO did figure out how to fix recruiting with the Chill and Kill hires. Has he figured out how to motivate players and keep them on board? Has he figure out how to get them winning the effort categories like defense and rebounding? Has he figure out how to develop big men? Design an offense that makes use of a limited player skill set? We will see. AD Dave has to judge his progress on these metrics because, as willie points out, even great coaches take 8-10 years to figure out how to do these things. The progress will surely be visible to an insider several years before it is visible to us on the court. So if it is happening AD Dave should know.

I get what you are saying but I don't think the $10 million is for the past. It is for future performance and that has been questionable the reasons for which have been speculated on many times on this board. He doesn't look like the same person as
2014 in energy, body language etc. etc. If he needs help he needs to step up and get it.

I think the AD is taking a long look and getting more involved. When you're getting that kind of money you need to be going forward; not in reverse. That said, I think a lot of him and hope for the best for him so that he can be the motivational coach that he has all the potential of being.

 

[Blaneylover]

You implication is when JC inherited UConn he had no players
That’s not true in fact he had better Bigs than KO has ever had in Cliff
Robinson. Future NBA all-star and sixth man award winner
Plus 6-10 Phil King and Gary Bessilink
5 guys averaged in double figures on that team.
(The Big East was a brutal league mid 80’s )
Cliff and Gary averaged close to double figures in rebounds.
He had a guy who was a very good shooter at the 2-3 in Phil Gamble the NIT mvp as a sophomore.
He had a young Tate George and a more experienced but injury prone Steve Pikell
Boy would I love to have a Cliffy, Phil,and Tate on this years team. Talk about the exact missing pieces.
JC Big East record his first three years was the same as Perno’s last three and worst years.
The Big difference is Perno’s teams kept getting worse culminated by the suspension of his star player Earl Kelly over a gun incident. Jim Calhoun came into the picture that year when Perno’s 8-0 UConn team was blown out by his Northeastern team in our own Christmas tournament that we use to call the “Cupcake Classic”. That was shocking and There was the sense Dom had lost control of the program.
Even though JC had an unauspicious Big East start there was little doubt the program was headed in the right direction and that he was in complete control.
The fact he won the NIT with Perno players never seemed to come up.LOL

No. I'm not implying that at all. The numbers Pertaining to JC in that post are his numbers at Northeastern.

 

[GotNets?]

It’s just wild to me that we want to fire a N.C. winning coach even with the recent trends the past couple seasons.....

Quick thought experiment: JC’s retiring and I tell you that KO will win a NC in his first seven seasons at the helm (let’s assume it may take a season or two for quality to return after last years cannon ball of bad luck) - do you want him for the job or not?

I think most of us want KO and are happy we made the most of our talent in ‘14 - that’s coaching!

Second) with all this discussion of top programs and slow starts in coaching, I’d love to hear a strong parallel to UConn’s conference situation because I haven’t heard one yet. Most programs that win N.C.s don’t get relegated to poor leagues and can therefore build on their advantages. Our situation is literally unheard of - can’t think of a similar landscape.

Third) who do you think is going to do a better job than KO? I saw someone say something about Tom Crean, and I like him a lot but he’s never even made a final four, let alone a N.C. Are we going to hire away Bill Self? We have an uphill battle due to our injuries last year and our conference status - who’s going to address that better than KO honestly? Could we hire Mark Few?

You think fans are disenchanted right now. Watch how little they care when Scott Drew is pulling 3* recruits, and no one has an inkling of a link to the program or it’s success. That’s not a hard and fast requirement for success as a college coach, but it sure can’t hurt in a situation like ours.

As for his pay - what do you think we should pay him given his contributions to the program? We expect him to make us contenders, are balking after a really poor year....... I’m losing some steam here because I want wins/recruits/prestige as much as the next guy, but what you bloodsuckers are asking for is to fire a N.C. winning coach while the program is in a shaky spot. I can’t think of any coach who would want that job for anything more than the money if that’s our fanbases’ conception of loyalty!

 

[GotNets?]

I could be mistaken about Crean thinking back to Marquette..... apologies!

 

[August_West]

Man you are the king of deflection.

And to answer: Nope.

And right back at ya: Would UNC have achieved greatness if it kept Guthridge (or Doherty) around???

Lolz.. Roy Williams ( or his equivalent) isn't walking through our door .

 

[Tuna]

How did Mike Davis' career start? Tubby Smith?

What is your point about Tubby Smith? Are you insinuating he has not been a great basketball coach? And look how UK did wih Gillespie after they ran Smith out.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Lolz.. Roy Williams ( or his equivalent) isn't walking through our door .

We don't need the next Roy Williams. Roy Williams isn't the next tier up from KO. There are a lot of tiers between KO and that level.

We just need to find a guy somewhere in between.

Its funny that you brought up Indiana, because it doesn't support your stance at all.

They got rid of Davis and brought in Sampson who actually did a good job but then was let go for violations. So they brought in Crean who also did a decent job for a while. Provided some stability, brought some enthusiasm and national spotlight back to the program. Re-invigorated recruiting. Ultimately, he couldn't get them to where they wanted to go so they let him go and now have one of the hottest young coaches in the country.

Are you saying this didn't work out for Indiana? Where would they be if they let Davis continue for another 3-5 years? Are you saying coaches the level of Sampson or Crean aren't available to us? Not home run hires, but they would do a much better job than is currently being done.

 

[Deadrody]

So again, we have a thread explaining why Kevin Ollie was simply the WRONG choice to succeed Calhoun and try and take over and MAINTAIN a program at UConn's level. This is really not a difficult thing to understand. Could it be expected that a first time head coach would struggle ?

Yes. Therefore, you don't put him in charge of a top tier program. Alas, two wrongs don't make a right. You screwed up the first hire, so now you're going to compound it by stubbornly keeping the mistake hire ? Brilliant.

 

[Paesano]

What is your point about Tubby Smith? Are you insinuationg he has not been a great basketball coach? And look how UK did wih Gillespie after they ran Smith out.

No, Tubby is not a great coach. How did he do once he didn't have Pitino's players? And how is Kentucky doing now? If you are a premier program, you keep looking until you find a great coach. It isn't rocket science.

I may be wrong about KO and, if I am, I will be here admitting so some day, if that day ever comes. But I will be brutally honest, I don't see this getting much better, if at all. He may have lost this team and program to the point of no return.

Yes, Calhoun had some bad times between championships 1 and 2 but it never got this ugly. There were down years and, within those, there were ugly games. But there were never this many ugly games or this many down years so close together.

It is one thing to struggle this badly while building a program, such as in Calhoun's first few years at UConn. It is another thing to struggle for an extended time once the program is established. People keep pointing to the championships as proof of KO's ability but, at the same time, people are saying he is still learning the ropes. You can't have it both ways. Either he is learning the ropes, and the championship was due to Calhoun's players, or he established his ability with the championship and his ability is a miracle run every N years with the remaining years being awful.

 

[uconnphil2016]

It’s just wild to me that we want to fire a N.C. winning coach even with the recent trends the past couple seasons.....

Quick thought experiment: JC’s retiring and I tell you that KO will win a NC in his first seven seasons at the helm (let’s assume it may take a season or two for quality to return after last years cannon ball of bad luck) - do you want him for the job or not?

I think most of us want KO and are happy we made the most of our talent in ‘14 - that’s coaching!

Second) with all this discussion of top programs and slow starts in coaching, I’d love to hear a strong parallel to UConn’s conference situation because I haven’t heard one yet. Most programs that win N.C.s don’t get relegated to poor leagues and can therefore build on their advantages. Our situation is literally unheard of - can’t think of a similar landscape.

Third) who do you think is going to do a better job than KO? I saw someone say something about Tom Crean, and I like him a lot but he’s never even made a final four, let alone a N.C. Are we going to hire away Bill Self? We have an uphill battle due to our injuries last year and our conference status - who’s going to address that better than KO honestly? Could we hire Mark Few?

You think fans are disenchanted right now. Watch how little they care when Scott Drew is pulling 3* recruits, and no one has an inkling of a link to the program or it’s success. That’s not a hard and fast requirement for success as a college coach, but it sure can’t hurt in a situation like ours.

As for his pay - what do you think we should pay him given his contributions to the program? We expect him to make us contenders, are balking after a really poor year.. I’m losing some steam here because I want wins/recruits/prestige as much as the next guy, but what you bloodsuckers are asking for is to fire a N.C. winning coach while the program is in a shaky spot. I can’t think of any coach who would want that job for anything more than the money if that’s our fanbases’ conception of loyalty!

I can't get over this idea that what's happened with Ollie recently can be chalked up to 'bad luck.' Sure, we've had injuries and tons of guys transfer. The fact of the matter is that when you take chances on recruits who are egotistical, you open yourself up to the possibility of a bad locker room and a high number of transfers. He also recruited several guys with known injury histories...we could have seen this coming. And conference realignment is not a good excuse. Our recruiting classes have been ranked just as high as they've ever been the past few years with last year being an exception. We've routinely recruited at the top of the AAC and yet never come close to winning the regular season in the conference. Our performance is embarrassing and is not just bad luck

 

[Tuna]

No, Tubby is not a great coach. How did he do once he didn't have Pitino's players? And how is Kentucky doing now?

Well he went to at least the sweet 16 6 times between 98-05 and went to the Elite 8 in 98, 99, 03 and 05. And oh yeah, national coach of the year in 2003. A real bum without his own players...

Missing out on final 4s wasn't good enough for UK fans so they looked to Billy Gillespie who didn't cut it and then had to shell out $32 million over 8 years to bring Calipari in. There are plenty of Gillespies out there, UCONN can't afford a Calipari.

I don't know if you're wrong about KO but you're definitely wrong about Tubby Smith and I don't think we should be in such a rush to push KO out the door.

 

[Huskybass]

Well he went to at least the sweet 16 6 times between 98-05 and went to the Elite 8 in 98, 99, 03 and 05. And oh yeah, national coach of the year in 2003. A real bum without his own players...

Missing out on final 4s wasn't good enough for UK fans so they looked to Billy Gillespie who didn't cut it and then had to shell out $32 million over 8 years to bring Calipari in. There are plenty of Gillespies out there, UCONN can't afford a Calipari.

I don't know if you're wrong about KO but you're definitely wrong about Tubby Smith and I don't think we should be in such a rush to push KO out the door.

Tubby Smith has had a very good coaching career. I wish I could have some enthusiasm for UConn under Kevin Ollie, but I highly doubt we will ever see another Sweet Sixteen while he is our coach. The problems with the program are simply too widespread and significant.

 

[Paesano]

Tubby Smith has had a very good coaching career. I wish I could have some enthusiasm for UConn under Kevin Ollie, but I highly doubt we will ever see another Sweet Sixteen while he is our coach. The problems with the program are simply too widespread and significant.

Good, but not great. Better than what we have but Tubby is too old for us now.

 

[August_West]

We don't need the next Roy Williams. Roy Williams isn't the next tier up from KO. There are a lot of tiers between KO and that level.

We just need to find a guy somewhere in between.

Its funny that you brought up Indiana, because it doesn't support your stance at all.

They got rid of Davis and brought in Sampson who actually did a good job but then was let go for violations. So they brought in Crean who also did a decent job for a while. Provided some stability, brought some enthusiasm and national spotlight back to the program. Re-invigorated recruiting. Ultimately, he couldn't get them to where they wanted to go so they let him go and now have one of the hottest young coaches in the country.

Are you saying this didn't work out for Indiana? Where would they be if they let Davis continue for another 3-5 years? Are you saying coaches the level of Sampson or Crean aren't available to us? Not home run hires, but they would do a much better job than is currently being done.

Cool you want to wait 17 years ?

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Cool you want to wait 17 years ?

Still waiting for you to make an actual valid point on all of this.

Not sure if you intentionally play dumb or what because all you do these days is contradict yourself.

You’re entire stance with ko is “let’s just wait and see what happens. I can’t give you any actual reasons as to why I think he will turn things around. But let’s just wait and see what happens”.

At the current trajectory, if we wait 17 more years with ko we will be finishing in the bottom half of the America east. Actually at this rate it wouldn’t even take that long. More like 7. But yeah good plan!