How Jim Calhoun's coaching career started

[HooperScooper]

Who made an excuse? Just pointing out history

O.K. then are you trying to tell us we should lower our expectations because Ollie is going to need a few more seasons of experience? So what should we expect the next few seasons that would be reasonable? Is there a break point where we could expect someone to do better or should we just live with Ollie for another few seasons to see what he can do? I'm just wondering what you're willing to live with before a change should be made. What is that point or should Ollie be the head coach as long as he wants to stay at UConn?

And as a footnote remember that Ollie is making over $3 million a year to produce. I doubt UConn gave him that much to learn on the job for 7-10 years. Does anyone remember what he was being paid the first 2 seasons before he got a new deal? I guess UConn got a favorable deal those first 2 seasons.

 

[willie99]

Did say anything other to give this team time. Nobody should lower expectations, but no reasonable person should think this team is going to play like national titles contenders 5 weeks into the season with two returning rotation players AND once again hampered by injuries

 

[AllHusky]

Northeastern was in the College World Series in 1966, they have always been Division 1

 

[JeepCSC]

Dean Smith

8-9
15-6
12-12
15-9
16-11

and ZERO NCAA tournaments

For context, beyond the probation and shortened schedule Coach Smith dealt with his first season, only one team per conference made it to the NCAAs during the first third of his career.

 

[WrenchFan69]

Northeastern was in the College World Series in 1966, they have always been Division 1

Basketball was not always division 1. Sports can be at different levels than others. For example, Dallas Baptist has a D1 baseball program but all of their other sports are D2.

 

[HawkHusky]

Beginning to think that willie99 is Kevin Ollie.

 

[B1GEast]

Indiana considered a destination job?

I don't get your point

 

[Paesano]

all at Northeastern

1) 19-7
2) 12-11
3) 12-12
4) 12-13
5) 12-14
6) 14-12
7) 13-13

8) 19-8, then he started to become the legend that he is today

What I'm saying is that it takes time to find what works for you as a coach

How did Mike Davis' career start? Tubby Smith?

 

[TRest]

The basic premise here is never fire a coach because a decade or so later he may become a ball of famer.

 

[80shusky]

O.K. then are you trying to tell us we should lower our expectations because Ollie is going to need a few more seasons of experience? So what should we expect the next few seasons that would be reasonable? Is there a break point where we could expect someone to do better or should we just live with Ollie for another few seasons to see what he can do? I'm just wondering what you're willing to live with before a change should be made. What is that point or should Ollie be the head coach as long as he wants to stay at UConn?

And as a footnote remember that Ollie is making over $3 million a year to produce. I doubt UConn gave him that much to learn on the job for 7-10 years. Does anyone remember what he was being paid the first 2 seasons before he got a new deal? I guess UConn got a favorable deal those first 2 seasons.

What expectations will you be setting for the new coach?

 

[HuskyNan]

"just stop", because none of those guys did it in their first few years, that's my argument

It takes time

you can keep pretending coaches are great out of the gate, but I think that's delusional

Tom Izzo took Michigan State to the Final Four in his fourth year as a coach. It's his only gig as a head coach.

Jay Wright's first head coach job was at Hofstra, where he took them from perennial doormat to conference champion in his 6th season. After jumping to Villanova, he took them to the Elite 8 in five years.

 

[pj]

O.K. then are you trying to tell us we should lower our expectations because Ollie is going to need a few more seasons of experience? So what should we expect the next few seasons that would be reasonable? Is there a break point where we could expect someone to do better or should we just live with Ollie for another few seasons to see what he can do? I'm just wondering what you're willing to live with before a change should be made. What is that point or should Ollie be the head coach as long as he wants to stay at UConn?

And as a footnote remember that Ollie is making over $3 million a year to produce. I doubt UConn gave him that much to learn on the job for 7-10 years. Does anyone remember what he was being paid the first 2 seasons before he got a new deal? I guess UConn got a favorable deal those first 2 seasons.

Look, his salary is irrelevant because (a) it's sunk costs, he gets it whether he's our coach or not, and (b) it's only being paid because he won a national championship and was considered a hot commodity. The $10 million or whatever that he's overpaid should be viewed as the cost of our national championship.

I think the implication of those numbers is that it may make sense to invest a few more seasons in Ollie's learning curve. I can't judge whether Ollie is actually learning or not, but AD Dave Benedict is close to the situation and must be able to evaluate that accurately. I think KO did figure out how to fix recruiting with the Chill and Kill hires. Has he figured out how to motivate players and keep them on board? Has he figure out how to get them winning the effort categories like defense and rebounding? Has he figure out how to develop big men? Design an offense that makes use of a limited player skill set? We will see. AD Dave has to judge his progress on these metrics because, as willie points out, even great coaches take 8-10 years to figure out how to do these things. The progress will surely be visible to an insider several years before it is visible to us on the court. So if it is happening AD Dave should know.

 

[UConnNick]

Tom Izzo took Michigan State to the Final Four in his fourth year as a coach. It's his only gig as a head coach.

Jay Wright's first head coach job was at Hofstra, where he took them from perennial doormat to conference champion in his 6th season. After jumping to Villanova, he took them to the Elite 8 in five years.

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

 

[HuskyNan]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

Kinda my point.

 

[UCFan1513]

Beginning to think that willie99 is Kevin Ollie.

What if he read this

 

[pj]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

True enough. But shouldn't the fact that Wooden had a construction company owner sa a resource and KO doesn't count in KO's favor?

 

[UConnNick]

True enough. But shouldn't the fact that Wooden had a construction company owner sa a resource and KO doesn't count in KO's favor?

Ah yes, "Uncle" Sammy! Always ready with the "golden handshakes".

 

[HooperScooper]

What expectations will you be setting for the new coach?

Well I did say I wasn't advocating for Ollie's firing right now. I would say any coach, including Ollie, needs to get UConn in at least the top 3-4 of the AAC almost every season and the NCAA Tournament 2/3 of the time. I think that's a realistic goal.

 

[Waquoit]

I remember this guy on TV talking about horseplayers that I believe fits in this discussion. "I hear people say they have 20 years experience playing the horses." he says, "Do they really? Or do they have 1 year of experience repeated 20 times?" I haven't seen any growth or improvement from Ollie since Shabazz graduated. I've seen the same old slog every year for four years running now. Why does anyone think that this performance won't continue to repeat? What am I missing?

 

[Huskybass]

I remember this guy on TV talking about horseplayers that I believe fits in this discussion. "I hear people say they have 20 years experience playing the horses." he says, "Do they really? Or do they have 1 year of experience repeated 20 times?" I haven't seen any growth or improvement from Ollie since Shabazz graduated. I've seen the same old slog every year for four years running now. Why does anyone think that this performance won't continue to repeat? What am I missing?

You absolutely nailed it. You will get resistance from a handful of the Ollie defenders, but no logical reason to expect better performance.

 

[Mots010]

Sweet, we just have to wait 7 or 8 more seasons before we know Ollie is a horrible coach.

 

[champs99and04]

The OP has a point. I'm not surprised that people have chosen to not get it, but we can acknowledge the lack of a true apples-to-apples comparison while also recognizing the fact that the trajectory for great coaches is often not linear.

 

[Huskybass]

There are many distinguishing factors between our coach and the coaches who have been brought up in this thread. I am pretty sure by their 6th year as a head coach guys like Dean Smith were doing lots of things very well. What is it exactly that Kevin Ollie does very well?

 

[mauconnfan]

Teams have changed coaches over the years 10, 20 even more times over their basketball years. Imagine the number of Division 1 coaches since college basketball has become so great? And we mention what, 15-20 names a lot the great ones and the really good ones. It's obvious only a few programs have been lucky enough to have a JC, K, Knight, Smith, Izzo etc etc etc.....reach all you want there will never be another JC anyway never going to happen. KO needs to be a lot better no doubt, a lot but who's next? The one you guys may want could drive us into the ground for good you don't know. But I get it.

 

[willie99]

And it took Wooden about 20 seasons before UCLA won an NCAA title. These side-by-side coaching comparisons are pretty useless. Different schools, different eras, different resources available to them, different personalities, different athletic administrations, etc., etc., etc. It's largely meaningless and no predictor of what might happen in a totally unrelated coaching situation.

Of course they are, it doesn't fit your narrative

Suggesting anything other than "it's over" or "Ollie has to go" or "the sky is falling" is all useless. Nothing else matters, daring to have a little perspective is just unacceptable.

The one thing you have right is that it's no predictor of future events, wasn't meant to be. The biggest difference is not the fact that experience is the world's greatest teacher, that's still true today. The biggest difference is that we have social media and an instant gratification society. Many great coaches would have been run out of town before they were given a chance to be successful.

At the end of the day, Ollie's not going anywhere anyhow, so I suppose y'all can choose to scream at the sky if it makes you feel better.