According to your type of logic in mens basketball Wyoming is 1 of 4 undefeated teams, so should be highly ranked. You actually need to beat someone in order to be highly ranked, and unless you were in last years final four, you shouldn't move above 4 until you beat someone in Mens or Womens basketball.
How Far will Stanford Drop & Does Baylor
- Thread starter Wbbfan1
- Start date
- Status
DobbsRover2
Slap me 10
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,329
- Reaction Score
- 6,720
Well yeah, but we all know that rankings are a crazy mish-mosh of stuff that does include those preseason rankings and hold-your-ground progress, all that SOS and big win comparison, and some reputation factors, and that a gaudy undefeated record looks good even if you really haven't beaten anyone in a tough environment like say Maples. We know what the official rankers sometimes do, like that ACC homer back in 2008 who voted UNC #1. But when it comes down to ranking a team at this point, it really should be that based on what they have shown so far -- who deserves to be 1-2-3-4. Stanford has played my #1 and #2, and UConn and Baylor are obviously in that club for various reasons. Duke isn't, though they will go all out in CT in 3 weeks. I'm just not willing to bet at this point that they will keep the game within 26 points, but if they do they probably will deserve a more plum ranking. And you're right that depth is a very big consideration, because NCs have been won because of the lack of it.
Tonyc
Optimus Prime
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 6,140
- Reaction Score
- 43,152
Well if Im ranking the teams. UConn beat Stanford and Stanford beat Baylor so they are 1,2,3. UConn Stanford Baylor and theyve all played ranked teams. Now here is something to think about. Duke is 4 and ND 5. When UConn dismantles ND on Saturday where does ND get ranked? IMO 5th or 6th. For teams with talent to beat up on teams with lesser talent isnt difficult and on an off nite they win by less then they shouldve.
My concerns for UConn right now. They have a short bench. They need to get MoJeff Tuck and Stokes alot of minutes and tomorrow afternoon againest Oregon that would be great. But those three and Banks and Stewie need more minutes alot more minutes. We are into January and these 5 kids need to be ready for March because after March is another season. The injuries and viruses we are facing now dont help their developement and its out of our hands.
On the next note. When they do develop this is gonna be one heck of a team.
My concerns for UConn right now. They have a short bench. They need to get MoJeff Tuck and Stokes alot of minutes and tomorrow afternoon againest Oregon that would be great. But those three and Banks and Stewie need more minutes alot more minutes. We are into January and these 5 kids need to be ready for March because after March is another season. The injuries and viruses we are facing now dont help their developement and its out of our hands.
On the next note. When they do develop this is gonna be one heck of a team.
EricSD
Cronus
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2011
- Messages
- 16,004
- Reaction Score
- 95,115
Come on. Did Wyoming start the season ranked #3? Please. "your type of logic" makes no sense.
They do have to develop the bench players. Possibly Geno's most significant weakness (ducking) is failing to give bench players minutes beyond what they've strictly earned in order to develop them for later in the season.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction Score
- 26
I agree with what you said but I feel the the AP has been under rating ND all year. Like them or not they are a team that knows how to win and have a coach that will teach them to beat up on there opponents.
.-.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction Score
- 26
In my opinion it should be UConn Baylor Stanford ND Duke. My reasoning is Baylor lost by 2 without there point guard for the majority of the game. Duke although still unbeaten hasn't played anyone of consequence and ND's losses have been to teams in the top three. It is to note of course that the AP and USA Coach's Polls have been blatantly dismissive of UConn for the past six weeks when they jumped Stanford over UConn in the first place!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Messages
- 2,322
- Reaction Score
- 6,081
The preseason rankings have a major affect on the rankings the rest of the year. Where you start out has a major influence, for example Georga was rated #6 and just got beat by a team with a loosing record. They got rated that high only because they beat teams that were initially over rated themselves. When teams beat initially overrated teams the ranking boost that this gives them is usually only corrected after suffering a number of losses. I personally believe that teams shouldn't even be ranked until the season is half way over. But then what would the posters on the forums discuss.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction Score
- 26
I don't get the point you are trying to make?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
I say yes to all and agree with your rankings. Getting destroyed at home by UCONN should definitely drop Stanford to at most 4th but I think N.D. should also move ahead of Stanford. I don't agree with giving Baylor a first place vote but they will probably get one. Defending champions with all their returning starters and all that stuff.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,316
- Reaction Score
- 68,169
Please apologize to this Bear from the California Bay area... you hurt its feelings.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction Score
- 26
No offense intended just my opinion
.-.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,316
- Reaction Score
- 68,169
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
Baylor definitely at #2. I believe that Stanford showed absolutely no reason they should be ranked higher than 5th. Okay, maybe a little bit of defense. But, it doesn't really matter where you put Stanford in this week's poll because when UCONN rolls N.D. next week and Duke in 3 weeks Stanford will be back to #3. That is assuming Stanford can take care of business the next 3 weeks. They have some ranked competition coming up. I don't really see any other teams breaking into the top five right now.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
I have included a link to UCONN's statistics up to and including the Stanford game and it shows 10 of UCONN's 11 players are averaging over 12 minutes per game. Buck is only averaging 6 minutes per game. Check it out, it may show you that Geno does get his bench some time. It doesn't include games where the player can't play due to injury. http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/teamcume.html
easttexastrash
Stay Classy!
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2011
- Messages
- 9,582
- Reaction Score
- 13,224
All that silly minutiae.
EricSD
Cronus
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2011
- Messages
- 16,004
- Reaction Score
- 95,115
One other thing to consider are the injuries. Kiah is out with an injury. Morgan is just coming back from one. Bria hasn't been 100% till the last few games. Moriah is just coming off a stomach virus. KML was feeling ill and needed fluids after the game. But nice noting the entire team sans Buck averaging over 10 MPG...
And UCONN has 6 players averaging over 9 PPG. A freshman and a sophomore are neck and neck for team lead in PPG. The present is very bright, and the future looks that way as well, but that's something we already know!
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Messages
- 2,322
- Reaction Score
- 6,081
Before Stanford got rolled by the margin that they did I would have agreed with you. Remember Ucon is expected to beat ND and Duke. A loss to a much higher ranked team (Ucon) will not hurt them as much as the loss by Stanford did. You are expected to beat teams ranked under you. A lot would depend on the margin of the expected Ucon victories over Duke and ND. There is such a perceived difference between the top five and everyone else that beating a team in the second tier is not that much more of a deal than beating a cupcake. You are expected to beat both.
Oh by the way Cal is Stanford's travel partner and they have the same schedule coming up that the Cards do. Plus they play them twice early. With Georgia's loss they will move up to at least #7 in the next poll.
.-.
Tonyc
Optimus Prime
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 6,140
- Reaction Score
- 43,152
All this talk about Sims getting hurt and "IF" she couldve played Baylor wouldve won. There are alot of "ifs' in sports and "what ifs" Nobody made any excuses for UConns wins over MD Penn St and Stanford because of their injuries and viruses. Note( Hartley comingback from her injury, Tuck injured Stokes Injured MOJeff with a virus and KML with a injury and virus) UConn still won and it really wasnt that close. Injuries are part of the game and you need to be deep enough to overcome that. When you have Griner and Chiney goes off on her the problem is not Sims its how can Dolsen and UCOnn stop Chiney and Baylor with 6'8 Griner didnt?????? IMO if Baylor is truly number 1 they should not allowed Chiney to go off on them, with the POY guarding her. That tells me theyre not number 1 and perhaps Griner is not POY????
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
Wow, we now have to consider the players state's of mind when we rank the teams?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
Who cares what happened months ago when some player was hurt or some team had to travel or some players were sick? Did anyone that saw the UCONN-Stanford game really think that Stanford deserved their #1 ranking? I didn't. Did Stanford do anything that makes you think they are one of the top 3 teams in the country? I didn't. The only thing they showed me was a little defense but absolutely nothing else. Thirty five points for a top three team? Seriously? I put them at #5 because no team below there has been consistent. UCONN had to wait 6 weeks for their correct ranking so Stanford can wait about 3 weeks to regain their pre-season #3 ranking. When UCONN beats N.D. and Duke then Stanford will be back at #3 again. That is unless The Cardinal can't handle their upcoming ranked opponents. And on Feb 18 Baylor will get their chance to regain their #1 ranking. B.G. and friends better bring their big guns because UCONN will be rolling by then. Rebound by Dolson, outlet pass to Hartley, she drives the length of the court, defense converges, passes left to Banks, she lays it in. Inbound pass to Sims slapped by Faris, picked up by Hartley, passed to Stewart who banks an 8 footer for two....foul on Griner. Inbound picked off by Jefferson, passes to Stokes, passes to Lewis in the corner, drains the trey. Can't wait. I believe that will be a warm-up for the N.C. game in April. By the way..... UCONN is 7-0 in N.C. games. Sorry about the detour, but I can't wait until Feb 18...... I just get a little crazy! Go Huskies!!
Wow, didn't realize that 18pts and 8 rbs now qualifies as "go off on them". The loss wasn't because of Baylor/ Griner's defense on Chiney, it was Sims not being there period. Sims production offensively and defensively is what Baylor missed. Sims would have kept at least one of the Stanford's guards from reaching double digits and surely would have got her team some buckets.
With all do respect over the past 10+ years on the very very rare occasion UConn has had a loss I recall more than one occasion where you did offer some excuses and "if's" that explained it away that while legit still don't compare to the loss of Sims. Whether its injuries, ref's, fouls, travel etc. it's all been said by every team and every fan.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2012
- Messages
- 2,072
- Reaction Score
- 5,178
All very true. I have seen N.D. play a few times and don't think they stand much of a chance at staying within 20 points at UCONN. But if they keep it real close like a few points that would definitely help their status. I haven't seen Duke play and they have only played one ranked opponent so they might be a snake in the grass or they might lose by 40 points. Cal might have a game for Stanford, hope one of their games is televised. It is time the PAC 12 has someone besides Stanford. I'm really looking forward to the next two months, a lot of good games coming up. Especially 2/18. Go Huskies!!
.-.
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2012
- Messages
- 138
- Reaction Score
- 26
I don't understand your post but here is my thought. UConn played and defeated Purdue Penn St Maryland and now Stanford. As far as Cal goes it is in the top 10 but ND played Stanford Baylor and as you are well aware all the pre-conference games include gimmes. You must also look at the margins of victory. In ND's games their losses were not by large margins and their victories were by total destruction. That was the basis of my selection of ND ahead of Duke.
):
HuskyNan
You Know Who
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2011
- Messages
- 29,857
- Reaction Score
- 274,885
Oh brother.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2012
- Messages
- 553
- Reaction Score
- 282
Stanford was taken down so badly by uconn that a #3 ranking seems more than generous to me. I see no convincing reason why Baylor should get any 1st place votes at all. They lost to Stanford and UCONN annihilated the Cardinal, etc.
I wonder about Stanford losing again to one or more of their upcoming games vs ranked teams? There's a good chance their confidence has been shaken and their swagger gone missing. That's gotta hurt a bit, I think.
I wonder about Stanford losing again to one or more of their upcoming games vs ranked teams? There's a good chance their confidence has been shaken and their swagger gone missing. That's gotta hurt a bit, I think.
triaddukefan
Tobacco Road Gastronomer
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 21,316
- Reaction Score
- 68,169
Actually ND didnt play Stanford. But my point was you said ND should be ahead of Duke, and that Duke hadnt played anyone. So basically you were saying that the better teams that ND has beaten (TAMU, Purdue, and UCLA) were all better teams than California. I disagree with that assessment. Duke also beat a solid Michigan team in Ann Arbor... a team that could possibly finish ahead of Purdue in the Big 10.
You also stated that ND's victories were by total destruction. They beat Purdue pretty badly.... but there games with TAMU and UCLA were close contests.... closer than Duke's game was vs Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Messages
- 2,322
- Reaction Score
- 6,081
That's not a totally over the top rational. It sort of makes sense, although triddukefans reasoning is also sound. I would give triddukeafan the advantage because Duke started ahead of ND. One must remember Duke started #4 where as ND started much lower than they are now. They were perceived to have lost to much talent. Did ND end up[being better than had been expected or were perhaps the teams that were ranked ahead of them worse than expected. I think it was some of both.
Ratings are mostly about perception at the start of the season. It is far more difficult to change a pre-existing perception. It's sort of like the replays in football. Once the call is made, to change the call their must be indisputable evidence to the contrary. As of today there has not yet been any such evidence on the part of ND vs Duke. Those teams you mention that ND has beaten are not really that good. Cal is #7 , while the best of the ND bunch is #14. UCLA recently was beaten by Cal St North Ridge at home. A&M is #24 and was over rated when they played, is 9-4 now and probably only still that because of their reputation. The top teams shouldn't have much trouble beating any of the lower teams this year.
.-.
- Status