How Far will Stanford Drop & Does Baylor

[pppggg]

anyone that votes Stanford as #2 wasn't watching the train wreck the Huskies laid on the Cardinals.

 

[pap49cba]

Sagarin now has Stanford #3 and ND #4 ahead of Duke.

LINK

 

[Wbbfan1]

Prior to yesterday's game against Stanford, UConn had a SOS of 22. Now they have a SOS of 5. Some of the teams listed in the Top 30 of Sagarin Ratings have atrocious SOS ratings. Kentucky 246, Okla State 327, Georgia 248 are some of the worse. Even Duke with a SOS rating of 107 is poor and they've only played one team ranked in the Top 25. WBB would help itself tremendously if all teams would improve their Out of Conference Schedule.

UConn has played 5 teams ranked in the Top 25 that's almost 50% of the games they've played so far. All teams should strive to play half of their OOC Games against Top 50 teams.

Sagarin now has Stanford #3 and ND #4 ahead of Duke.

LINK

 

[easttexastrash]

Unfortunately, there are only a few really good teams. SOS means very little in the women's game for the top 4 teams.

 

[speedoo]

I think Baylor may still get the 2 #1 votes. The voters already thought Baylor was superior to the rest of the teams in spite of the loss. Not sure a win over a team that they already held as inferior to Baylor will change their vote.

I think a good percentage of people, which should include the so called experts, understood that Sims absence in the Stanford game changed the whole completion of the match-up. I still think that if KMR knew for even a minute that she wouldn't have Sims that there would have been a game plan that would have more than made up for the 2 point loss. UConn should have moved to #1 after that game. Elevating Stanford to #1 was ridiculous.

Stanford will drop to #3, but that is still a higher rating then they deserve. As good as Chiney is make no mistake it was Nneka that separated Stanford from the pack. Chiney is not enough and good defensive teams can control the rest.

I agree 100%. Stanford will lose at least once more and they will need a favorable bracket (eg, no ND, Duke or MD) to make the Final Four.

 

[speedoo]

Stanford did beat #16 South Carolina on the road and #13 Tennessee at Thompson-Boling Arena by 13 points last week. It's not like they haven't played anyone.

They were lucky to beat USC and beating Tennessee is no great accomplishment.

 

[HuskyNan]

They were lucky to beat USC and beating Tennessee is no great accomplishment.

UConn looked unimpressive in their wins over PSU and Maryland - at home. Stanford was on the road, and right before the holidays when kids' minds wander.

 

[triaddukefan]

Prior to yesterday's game against Stanford, UConn had a SOS of 22. Now they have a SOS of 5. Some of the teams listed in the Top 30 of Sagarin Ratings have atrocious SOS ratings. Kentucky 246, Okla State 327, Georgia 248 are some of the worse. Even Duke with a SOS rating of 107 is poor and they've only played one team ranked in the Top 25. WBB would help itself tremendously if all teams would improve their Out of Conference Schedule.

UConn has played 5 teams ranked in the Top 25 that's almost 50% of the games they've played so far. All teams should strive to play half of their OOC Games against Top 50 teams.

This definitely has been the weakest OOC schedule that I can remember Duke playing.... to the chagrin of myself along with other duke fans. We usually have one of better schedules of the top teams. We might have had the toughest one or two OOC schedules as recently as 2010-11. Hopefully next year we will get back to that kind of schedule.

 

[EricSD]

Duke has only played and beat one ranked team so far. I'm surprised they are ranked as high as they are considering who they have played so far. Stanford is 3-1 vs top 25, UConn 5-0, Baylor 3-1 and Notre Dame is also 3-1. Sorry Duke, 1-0 doesn't cut it for a #4 ranking right now.

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

The ended the season last year at #6, lost only Selby and Sheer to graduation, and added Jones, Moore, and Heckmen (freshmen), and got back Henson (injury) and Wells (suspension). Both Alexis Jones and Amber Henson were top 10 kids in their respective classes, altho I don't see any stats on Henson so maybe she's injured again? Triad or Cam can tell me if I got any of the aforementioned facts wrong...

Frankly, I'd have put them preseason ahead of Stanford behind only UCONN and Baylor. On top of that, after Baylor's loss to Stanford, I'd have ranked them UCONN, Duke, Stanford, and Baylor in that order. Duke is loaded and deep. I don't disagree that the "jury" is still out on how good they will be this year, but I honestly think they are almost as much a lock for the final 4 as UCONN and Baylor...

BTW they did beat #10 Cal by a similar margin to UCONN's victories over PSU and Maryland. And say what you will, UCONN didn't look overly impressive vs. those 2 teams. The beat down vs. Stanford, however, was another story...

I'm not saying their schedule has been hard - it's actually a very easy schedule the entire year for them, but Cal was a good measuring stick... and the game vs. UCONN will tell everyone a lot...

 

[easttexastrash]

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

The ended the season last year at #6, lost only Selby and Sheer to graduation, and added Jones, Moore, and Heckmen (freshmen), and got back Henson (injury) and Wells (suspension). Both Alexis Jones and Amber Henson were top 10 kids in their respective classes, altho I don't see any stats on Henson so maybe she's injured again? Triad or Cam can tell me if I got any of the aforementioned facts wrong...

Frankly, I'd have put them preseason ahead of Stanford behind only UCONN and Baylor. On top of that, after Baylor's loss to Stanford, I'd have ranked them UCONN, Duke, Stanford, and Baylor in that order. Duke is loaded and deep. I don't disagree that the "jury" is still out on how good they will be this year, but I honestly think they are almost as much a lock for the final 4 as UCONN and Baylor...

BTW they did beat #10 Cal by a similar margin to UCONN's victories over PSU and Maryland. And say what you will, UCONN didn't look overly impressive vs. those 2 teams. The beat down vs. Stanford, however, was another story...

I'm not saying their schedule has been hard - it's actually a very easy schedule the entire year for them, but Cal was a good measuring stick... and the game vs. UCONN will tell everyone a lot...

Let me get this right. You rank three teams ahead of Baylor? And you're basing your pre-season rankings based on an in-season loss by Baylor? Plus, why are we discussing pre-season rankings 10 to 11 games into the season?

 

[Plumber Luigi]

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

Sorry for not making myself clearer but it was late/early.

Yes I understand that movements in the rankings are usually dictated only by the relative wins and losses that week. If you are beaten by a much lower or unranked team, you drop several positions. The other was around, reverse is true.

As someone who hadn't been following the rankings closely throughout the season it simply seemed to me that Duke has been sitting on it's laurels and has yet to prove that they deserve their high ranking in the polls with their out of conference schedule. This was the same argument that was made against UConn back in the 90s after the 95 season. That our X-0 record wasn't a result of our team's strength but because we played nobody of consequence before the conference schedule kicks in.

IMO Duke Women has always been over rated and so has the ACC in general. I may live in Connecticut but I'm from Missouri, show me that Duke deserve the #4 ranking and to me their current SOS hasn't allowed that to be shown to an impartial observer.

 

[easttexastrash]

Let me get this right. You rank three teams ahead of Baylor? And you're basing your revised pre-season rankings based on an in-season loss by Baylor? Plus, why are we discussing pre-season rankings 10 to 11 games into the season?

 

[Tonyc]

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

The ended the season last year at #6, lost only Selby and Sheer to graduation, and added Jones, Moore, and Heckmen (freshmen), and got back Henson (injury) and Wells (suspension). Both Alexis Jones and Amber Henson were top 10 kids in their respective classes, altho I don't see any stats on Henson so maybe she's injured again? Triad or Cam can tell me if I got any of the aforementioned facts wrong...

Frankly, I'd have put them preseason ahead of Stanford behind only UCONN and Baylor. On top of that, after Baylor's loss to Stanford, I'd have ranked them UCONN, Duke, Stanford, and Baylor in that order. Duke is loaded and deep. I don't disagree that the "jury" is still out on how good they will be this year, but I honestly think they are almost as much a lock for the final 4 as UCONN and Baylor...

BTW they did beat #10 Cal by a similar margin to UCONN's victories over PSU and Maryland. And say what you will, UCONN didn't look overly impressive vs. those 2 teams. The beat down vs. Stanford, however, was another story...

I'm not saying their schedule has been hard - it's actually a very easy schedule the entire year for them, but Cal was a good measuring stick... and the game vs. UCONN will tell everyone a lot...

Keep in mind in the MD and Penn St games Bria and KML werent 100% . Everybody keeps forgetting that. I would like to see UConn play both of them again in February and see what happens. I keep reading the media talking about Baylor without Sims and other teams without their top player well UConn has had more top players out or coming back and theyre still putting up big numbers and winning. I remember when UConn beat Stanford by 36 and lost later in the NCAAs and nobody was saying Mel and Kalana were out with injuries.

 

[speedoo]

UConn looked unimpressive in their wins over PSU and Maryland - at home. Stanford was on the road, and right before the holidays when kids' minds wander.

I thought this discussion was about Stanford.. How are the UConn games vs. MD and PSU relevant?

 

[HuskyNan]

Keep in mind in the MD and Penn St games Bria and KML werent 100% . Everybody keeps forgetting that. I would like to see UConn play both of them again in February and see what happens. I keep reading the media talking about Baylor without Sims and other teams without their top player well UConn has had more top players out or coming back and theyre still putting up big numbers and winning. I remember when UConn beat Stanford by 36 and lost later in the NCAAs and nobody was saying Mel and Kalana were out with injuries.

Tony, UConn beat Purdue by 30+ points with Bria playing limited minutes. Breanna, only a freshman, was dominant againt Purdue but struggled againt the physicality of PSU and Maryland. She will learn. But to say the two games were close because Bria was hobbled isn't correct.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Duke holding Monmouth to 3 points in the first half today actually probably puts even spotlight on their poor SOS as it was bad to begin with and playing a hapless team like Monmouth at home will set it even further back in the twilight zone. Who knows how Duke would look now if it had given itself at least decent tests that most of the other top 10 teams have had (as even the CA game was at home)? On the plus side for the Devils, it's not like they intentionally tried to play an easy OOC schedule this year, as a few of their opponents like Xavier and St. Johns are just having much worse years than normal. Going into the season I thought that Duke's SOS could be halfway decent, but it's not turning out that way.

Either way, Stanford has 3 more top-50 wins than Duke and three times as many of those games.

 

[triaddukefan]

Duke holding Monmouth to 3 points in the first half today actually probably puts even spotlight on their poor SOS as it was bad to begin with and playing a hapless team like Monmouth at home will set it even further back in the twilight zone. Who knows how Duke would look now if it had given itself at least decent tests that most of the other top 10 teams have had (as even the CA game was at home)? On the plus side for the Devils, it's not like they intentionally tried to play an easy OOC schedule this year, as a few of their opponents like Xavier and St. Johns are just having much worse years than normal. Going into the season I thought that Duke's SOS could be halfway decent, but it's not turning out that way.

Either way, Stanford has 3 more top-50 wins than Duke and three times as many of those games.

Yet I still think Duke is a better team than Stanford...... top 50 wins or not. Duke will probably have more top 50 wins at the end of the season than Stanford.... or at least it will be close.

 

[triaddukefan]

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

The ended the season last year at #6, lost only Selby and Sheer to graduation, and added Jones, Moore, and Heckmen (freshmen), and got back Henson (injury) and Wells (suspension). Both Alexis Jones and Amber Henson were top 10 kids in their respective classes, altho I don't see any stats on Henson so maybe she's injured again? Triad or Cam can tell me if I got any of the aforementioned facts wrong...


t...

Henson is still on the mend.... hopefully she will get back on the court in January, but its anyone's guess at this point.

 

[EricSD]

Let me get this right. You rank three teams ahead of Baylor? And you're basing your pre-season rankings based on an in-season loss by Baylor? Plus, why are we discussing pre-season rankings 10 to 11 games into the season?

My rankings right now would be UCONN, Duke, Baylor, Stanford. After Baylor's loss to Stanford, i would have had UCONN, Duke, Stanford, Baylor.

I am not basing my current rankings based on preseason. My point was that Duke lost very little due to graduation last year, and they've done nothing this year to merit dropping them below Baylor or Stanford. IMHO, those last 2 teams lost so they should have dropped below Duke. Obviously that didn't happen.

 

[triaddukefan]

My rankings right now would be UCONN, Duke, Baylor, Stanford. After Baylor's loss to Stanford, i would have had UCONN, Duke, Stanford, Baylor.

I am not basing my current rankings based on preseason.

I would have UCONN, BAYLOR, Stanford, and then Duke.

 

[easttexastrash]

My rankings right now would be UCONN, Duke, Baylor, Stanford. After Baylor's loss to Stanford, i would have had UCONN, Duke, Stanford, Baylor.

I am not basing my current rankings based on preseason. My point was that Duke lost very little due to graduation last year, and they've done nothing this year to merit dropping them below Baylor or Stanford. IMHO, those last 2 teams lost so they should drop below Duke.

Don't you have to be ahead of them at some point to "drop below them." Duke has never been ranked ahead of Baylor, and with good reason. Now, if they come up with a signature win against UCONN that should change.

 

[EricSD]

Don't you have to be ahead of them at some point to "drop below them." Duke has never been ranked ahead of Baylor, and with good reason. Now, if they come up with a signature win against UCONN that should change.

I said my rankings, not the current rankings. The season started Baylor, UCONN, Duke, Stanford. After Baylor's loss to Stanford, I would have had Duke 2nd behind UCONN (Duke, Stanford, Baylor).

Now that Stanford got whipped by UCONN, i'd STILL have them # 2 behind UCONN. UCONN, Duke, Baylor, Stanford. I don't agree with the current rankings with Duke dropping to 4th after Stanford beat Baylor. Just my opinion. Obviously the AP and coaches polls disagree with me.

In fact, I might even drop Stanford to 5th behind ND.

 

[easttexastrash]

I said my rankings, not the current rankings. The season started Baylor, UCONN, Duke, Stanford. After Baylor's loss to Stanford, I would have had Duke 2nd behind UCONN (Duke, Stanford, Baylor).

Now that Stanford got whipped by UCONN, i'd STILL have them # 2 behind UCONN. UCONN, Duke, Baylor, Stanford. I don't agree with the current rankings with Duke dropping to 4th after Stanford beat Baylor. Just my opinion. Obviously the AP and coaches polls disagree with me.

In fact, I might even drop Stanford to 5th behind ND.

I think that if JPM had scheduled some higher ranked opponents that Duke would have climbed in the polls. It just very hard for them to make a move when the best team that they've played is Cal. The only chance they have to make a statement is against UCONN and that is going to take an off game by UCONN and Duke's best game of the season.

 

[EricSD]

I think that if JPM had scheduled some higher ranked opponents that Duke would have climbed in the polls. It just very hard for them to make a move when the best team that they've played is Cal. The only chance they have to make a statement is against UCONN and that is going to take an off game by UCONN and Duke's best game of the season.

Very true. I understand why the pollsters have them ranked the way they do, even if I disagree. Scheduling an OOC game against any of the top 10-ish teams would have gone a long way if they'd won.

 

[CCinCT]

Just saw the Texas - CMU score. How is it possible that Texas is still a ranked team ??? Let's see if the pollsters are paying attention.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Very true. I understand why the pollsters have them ranked the way they do, even if I disagree. Scheduling an OOC game against any of the top 10-ish teams would have gone a long way if they'd won.

Yeah, but they didn't. And when you're ranking you should base it on what a team has done and not necessarily what your gut feeling is about who wold win a game on a neutral court. I think Sagarin does a pretty good job of sorting out the team performances. If Duke had blown the covers off a top team at home I might say that they deserve to be in the top 3, but a 14 point home win over Cal and today's 73-32 beatdown of Monmouth don't speak #2 to me, no matter how I imagined them in preseason. Baylor and Stanford at least have put themselves on the line even if they have sometimes run into injuries or juggernauts.

 

[Sonny44]

Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made.

The ended the season last year at #6, lost only Selby and Sheer to graduation, and added Jones, Moore, and Heckmen (freshmen), and got back Henson (injury) and Wells (suspension). Both Alexis Jones and Amber Henson were top 10 kids in their respective classes, altho I don't see any stats on Henson so maybe she's injured again? Triad or Cam can tell me if I got any of the aforementioned facts wrong...

Frankly, I'd have put them preseason ahead of Stanford behind only UCONN and Baylor. On top of that, after Baylor's loss to Stanford, I'd have ranked them UCONN, Duke, Stanford, and Baylor in that order. Duke is loaded and deep. I don't disagree that the "jury" is still out on how good they will be this year, but I honestly think they are almost as much a lock for the final 4 as UCONN and Baylor...

BTW they did beat #10 Cal by a similar margin to UCONN's victories over PSU and Maryland. And say what you will, UCONN didn't look overly impressive vs. those 2 teams. The beat down vs. Stanford, however, was another story...

I'm not saying their schedule has been hard - it's actually a very easy schedule the entire year for them, but Cal was a good measuring stick... and the game vs. UCONN will tell everyone a lot...

Keep in mind in the MD and Penn St games Bria and KML werent 100% . Everybody keeps forgetting that. I would like to see UConn play both of them again in February and see what happens. I keep reading the media talking about Baylor without Sims and other teams without their top player well UConn has had more top players out or coming back and theyre still putting up big numbers and winning. I remember when UConn beat Stanford by 36 and lost later in the NCAAs and nobody was saying Mel and Kalana were out with injuries.

"Just because Duke has only played one ranked team doesn't mean they don't deserve to be ranked #3 or 4. I could see you arguing whether or not they deserve to be ranked ahead of Stanford, but not the argument you made."

Yes, it does. You want to be regarded among the best, you have to play the best. There's no other way.

 

[EricSD]

Yeah, but they didn't. And when you're ranking you should base it on what a team has done and not necessarily what your gut feeling is about who wold win a game on a neutral court. I think Sagarin does a pretty good job of sorting out the team performances. If Duke had blown the covers off a top team at home I might say that they deserve to be in the top 3, but a 14 point home win over Cal and today's 73-32 beatdown of Monmouth don't speak #2 to me, no matter how I imagined them in preseason. Baylor and Stanford at least have put themselves on the line even if they have sometimes run into injuries or juggernauts.

It has nothing to do with my "gut" feelings. It has everything to do with where they were ranked to start the year and who lost games. Look at men's football. Notre Dame really only beat one top 10 team (Stanford) and yet they are playing for the NC. They started the season unranked, but skyrocketed up the rankings because everyone else in front of them LOST games. do you think they are the best team in the nation? hardly, but they didn't lose to anyone and deserve to be playing for the NC.

That's partly my logic for my opinion that Duke should be #2 behind UCONN. As i said, Duke has not lost a game and they started the season #3. Stanford and Baylor both lost games so in my mind they are #2 behind UCONN.

 

[easttexastrash]

It has nothing to do with my "gut" feelings. It has everything to do with where they were ranked to start the year and who lost games. Look at men's football. Notre Dame really only beat one top 10 team (Stanford) and yet they are playing for the NC. They started the season unranked, but skyrocketed up the rankings because everyone else in front of them LOST games. do you think they are the best team in the nation? hardly, but they didn't lose to anyone and deserve to be playing for the NC.

That's partly my logic for my opinion that Duke should be #2 behind UCONN. As i said, Duke has not lost a game and they started the season #3. Stanford and Baylor both lost games so in my mind they are #2 behind UCONN.

So your logic is partly based on a horribly flawed football system?

 

[EricSD]

So your logic is partly based on a horribly flawed football system?

OMG do you even read what I wrote. My logic has been explained ad nauseum in this thread. I was just pointing out a similar situation in football. And by the way, if this were men's hoops, it would be the same - UCONN #1, Duke #2. What is the big deal that i think UCONN should be #1 and Duke should be #2? This could be argued forever. It's simply my opinion. My opinion is not wrong. Nor is it based on faulty facts.

The facts are that UCONN and Duke are undefeated. Baylor and Stanford are not. Period. There is no disputing that. And my opinion of where I would rank the teams is based on that.

However, regarding opinions, everyone is entitled to have one, and most disagree with me, including the AP and Coaches Polls. Please stop being so argumentative about this. I get you disagree with me.