He ain't heavy, he's my brother

[Hromp]

Magic Johnson. I mean really. He had hall of fame backups. His hall of fame backup’s kids are hall of famers. Magic Johnson is not my favorite. Larry bird was so much better it’s crazy.

What about when Magic played center in the nba finals and led the lakers to victory. Magic was money.

 

[Nick2005]

Jeter was over rated as a player as he wasn’t in the A-Rod camp of players. Now he is MASSIVELY underrated.

Thst said. Jeter’s career is hall of fame level legendary wherever he played. Jeter’s stats -

Jeter - .310 career batting average.

3465 hits — that is sixth all time behind

Pete Rose
Ty Cobb
Hank Aaron
Stan Musial
Tris Speaker

In modern baseball era, post integration, Jeter has the fourth most hits in baseball history.

6th all time hits (3465)
11 all time runs scored (1923)

Career war is 71.7

Garciaparra is 44
Tejada is 41


Jeter best shortstop ever?

No.

ARod
Cal Ripken

But his war is 95th all time and all his comps are hall of famers.

He has a higher career WAR than Miguel Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, Barry Larkin, Tony Gwynn, Ivan Rodriguez.

he isn’t scooter Ruzzuto.

Under no stat analysis is he not a legendary player.

I grew up in San Diego, I know what you are saying but Tony Gwynn made the ball go where he wanted. He wasn’t just slap hitter. He was a stud until he got fat.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

As a Red Sox fan, I loved Jeter. Consumate professional. Nothing but love.

Well then, how about Rivera?

He wouldn't have recorded so many saves if he'd been on a less winning team all those years, right?
;^)

 

[TheHorde]

I'm a Sox fan and I'm not sure where this is coming from. Varitek was a good catcher who was a good hitter for the position but I don't think any Sox fans think he was great. Certainly not Hall of Fame caliber or anything close.

We admired him for his toughness and leadership, but I don’t know any Sox fans that think he was close to as good as Fisk even was.

 

[The Viking]

If he stayed with the Twins, you’d never know who Big Papi was. He couldn’t crack the lineup over Doug Mientkiewicz for like 5 years then went to the Sox and “weirdly” became Superman.

Ortiz couldn't crack the field because Mientkiewicz was a terrific 1B - which is why Theo traded for him in the 2004 WS run.
But Ortiz did get in the lineup. His final year with the twins he hit 20 HR and had a slugging of .500.
In the minors Ortiz had some monster years, the guy definitely flashed power from the get go. But the Twins and Kelly preached contact and hated strikeout mashers. They ultimately wanted to move on from a hitter like Ortiz who had power but no defense. They decided to part ways and find better fits with their roster and Theo scooped him up.

 

[The Viking]

Manny made Ortiz

I'm not gonna say Ortiz was a better hitter than Manny but Ortiz was definitely more clutch than Manny. There have been plenty of examples of it.

 

[husky8273]

We admired him for his toughness and leadership, but I don’t know any fans that think he was close to as good as Fisk even was.

FIFW

 

[storrsroars]

There are plenty of athletes who have the ability to dominate no matter where they land: Shaq, LeBron, Favre, Verlander... yes,

How did Favre get a mention in that group?

One of my favorite thrills as a Jets fan was watching the spurned and cast aside Chad Pennington rip out and stomp the hearts of the Favre-led Jets causing them to miss the playoffs.

I like the Rizzuto pick, but since the worst part of living in Pittsburgh is Steeler fans, I'm gonna go with... let's see, many to choose from, but I'll say Lynn Swann.

 

[willie99]

Awful thread, yuk

 

[CTBasketball]

Awful thread, yuk

When people castrate Derek Jeter as “overrated” yes it’s a bad thread. Mind-boggling dumb take.

 

[TedStriker]

So 6th all time in hits with another franchise wouldn't land Jeter into Cooperstown?

Of course he would be. He basically had the same career as Craig Biggio except with a few more hits and worse defense. Playing in NY elevated Jeter tremendously. Probably the most overrated ball player in the last 30 years.

 

[Jaydumo20]

How did Favre get a mention in that group?

One of my favorite thrills as a Jets fan was watching the spurned and cast aside Chad Pennington rip out and stomp the hearts of the Favre-led Jets causing them to miss the playoffs.

I like the Rizzuto pick, but since the worst part of living in Pittsburgh is Steeler fans, I'm gonna go with... let's see, many to choose from, but I'll say Lynn Swann.

Lynn Swann is a good one!
I chose Favre just as an example not necessarily the ideal. He went to the Jets and was really good until he tore his bicep and then went to Minnesota and made a playoff run. He would've been great on any team.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

I'll just leave this here ...

Pretty sure a combined OPS of 1.371 over 3 WS - that only includes 3 HR - is not at all shabby.

 

[Waquoit]

We admired him for his toughness and leadership, but I don’t know any Sox fans that think he was close to as good as Fisk even was.

Fisk was better but I think Fisk was overrated and Varitek was underrated.

 

[TheHorde]

Fisk was better but I think Fisk was overrated and Varitek was underrated.

Fisk was a great player for a catcher but he did play a very long time, which helped him compile stats. The Sox should have never let him or Fred Lynn go.

 

[The Yakk]

I'm a Sox fan and I'm not sure where this is coming from. Varitek was a good catcher who was a good hitter for the position but I don't think any Sox fans think he was great. Certainly not Hall of Fame caliber or anything close.

I'm a Sox fan too and I would say that most of us think Varitek was overpaid by the team--especially in the later years--but we didn't give a hoot because it was not our money and we were happy to have him around.

Well then, how about Rivera?

He wouldn't have recorded so many saves if he'd been on a less winning team all those years, right?
;^)

Rivera was legit underrated, my sphincter tightened up every time he came in the game against us. We got him a few times, but that doesn't change anything.

The team was riding Rivera's coattails, not the other way around. It's no coincidence that the NYY outperformed their Pythagorean wins estimate every year Rivera was there, or that they haven't won squat since he left.

I was at Rivera's Fenway Park farewell ceremony in 2013. Also happened to be the last game of the season. The love and respect for Rivera from everyone was kind of amazing.

I don't think we even bothered giving Jeter a day.

 

[Waquoit]

Fisk was a great player for a catcher but he did play a very long time, which helped him compile stats. The Sox should have never let him or Fred Lynn go.

Remember how Fisk was able to leave? The Sox forgot to tender an offer before the deadline. Like JI Randy Smith used to say, it wasn't a curse, it was bad management.

 

[navery12]

I don't think we even bothered giving Jeter a day.

Boston greats honor Jeter in final MLB game

With a soldout Fenway Park packed with New York Yankees fans chanting Derek Jeter's name, the Boston Red Sox honored the retiring New York captain.

es.pn

 

[Tenspro2002]

I'll just leave this here ...

View attachment 102784

Pretty sure a combined OPS of 1.371 over 3 WS - that only includes 3 HR - is not at all shabby.

With the Red Sox, his OPS by playoff series was:

.317 (awful against Oakland in 2003, but an enormous double in Game 4 to save the season)
.905
1.688 (including series-winning walkoff homer against the Angels in 2004 ALDS)
1.199 (numerous heroic moments against the Yankees in 2004 ALCS, walk-offs in Games 4 and 5, and really under-discussed home run to take the lead in the 1st in Game 7)
1.086
1.083
2.418 (murdered the Angels in 2007)
.966
.945
.644
.697
.167 (pretty mediocre in 2008-2009 overall, including in the playoffs)
1.479 (basically won Game 2 against TB in 2013 all by himself, dominated David Price)
.427 (awful against the Tigers, but mostly forgotten because of the iconic Game 2 homer that saved the season)
1.948 (annihilated St. Louis in the 2013 World Series)
.472 (everyone sucked against Cleveland in 2016)

That's 10 of 16 series above .900, 7 above 1.000, and 4 above 1.400. Insane.

 

[Mr. French]

How did Favre get a mention in that group?

One of my favorite thrills as a Jets fan was watching the spurned and cast aside Chad Pennington rip out and stomp the hearts of the Favre-led Jets causing them to miss the playoffs.

I like the Rizzuto pick, but since the worst part of living in Pittsburgh is Steeler fans, I'm gonna go with... let's see, many to choose from, but I'll say Lynn Swann.

Brett Favre is so overrated it’s hilarious.

Come to think of it, the other fraud that went GB to NYJ is on the same list.

 

[Chin Diesel]

When people castrate Derek Jeter as “overrated” yes it’s a bad thread. Mind-boggling dumb take.

The overrated part would be he's a legit HoF, but in spite of his percentage of votes for HoF being top 5 all-time, no one ranks him as the best SS of all-time and, I'd wager he wouldn't crack top-25 players of all-time on most lists by baseball historians (And I realize that can't be proven or disproven). Zero MVP's and a total of 3 times being in Top-5 of MVP voting (One 2nd and two 3rds).

I'd even say his post-season performance has as much to do with his "legendary" status as much as playing for the Yanks did. Being a top level post season player who was on the Yankees is a multiplier effect but everyone has to also acknowledge there are plenty of top level players who puckered up under the spotlight of NY and the post season. In other words, it's not a given a top level performer for the Yanks performs well in the post season. Credit due for that.

I also realize percentage of votes in HoF for decades was more about the wackiness of BWAA than it was player accomplishments.

 

[CTBasketball]

The overrated part would be he's a legit HoF, but in spite of his percentage of votes for HoF being top 5 all-time, no one ranks him as the best SS of all-time and, I'd wager he wouldn't crack top-25 players of all-time on most lists by baseball historians (And I realize that can't be proven or disproven). Zero MVP's and a total of 3 times being in Top-5 of MVP voting (One 2nd and two 3rds).

I'd even say his post-season performance has as much to do with his "legendary" status as much as playing for the Yanks did. Being a top level post season player who was on the Yankees is a multiplier effect but everyone has to also acknowledge there are plenty of top level players who puckered up under the spotlight of NY and the post season. In other words, it's not a given a top level performer for the Yanks performs well in the post season. Credit due for that.

I also realize percentage of votes in HoF for decades was more about the wackiness of BWAA than it was player accomplishments.

I wouldn’t take Cal Ripken Jr over Derek Jeter, I’d take Jeter any day of the week. Rodriguez and Ernie Banks I can see but they switched positions halfway thru their careers.

 

[Kolumbo]

Let's not forget: "Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical." That gave Jeter an edge. Jeter's got an Edge.

 

[Scoe]

The overrated part would be he's a legit HoF, but in spite of his percentage of votes for HoF being top 5 all-time, no one ranks him as the best SS of all-time and, I'd wager he wouldn't crack top-25 players of all-time on most lists by baseball historians (And I realize that can't be proven or disproven). Zero MVP's and a total of 3 times being in Top-5 of MVP voting (One 2nd and two 3rds).

I'd even say his post-season performance has as much to do with his "legendary" status as much as playing for the Yanks did. Being a top level post season player who was on the Yankees is a multiplier effect but everyone has to also acknowledge there are plenty of top level players who puckered up under the spotlight of NY and the post season. In other words, it's not a given a top level performer for the Yanks performs well in the post season. Credit due for that.

I also realize percentage of votes in HoF for decades was more about the wackiness of BWAA than it was player accomplishments.

Jeter has been called overrated his entire career so that word "overrated" loses its luster after awhile. I say he was overhyped by the NY media, the national media always called him overrated.

There was poll from 2005 calling him the most overrated player and he played the best baseball of his career after that. Probably should've won the mvp in 2006 in a year he batted .343, in 2009 Jeter batted .334 in that year a catcher was batting .380 so sometimes is a bit about luck as Pedroia was an mvp batting .280. I agree he never should've won the 5 gold gloves.

 

[Icculus]

Sure, the estimation of Jeter's individual career stats/accomplishments might be slightly over-fluffed, but that's probably true of all championship-winning players from big markets. I'd think that it would be crazy to single him for being overrated, but, being from Fairfield County, I keep on forgetting that there's a lot of UConn/Red Sox fans up in the northern reaches of the state.