He ain't heavy, he's my brother

[Zanzman]

Hate to say it but this topic screams Emmitt Lewis. Running behind arguably one of the greatest lines in the history of the game with the greatest offensive lineman in Larry Allen (RIP). Really never trucked like Campbell, or made you miss like Barry, nor could take it home like Dorsett. Smart back, good vision. Good not great running back.

Smith?

 

[HooperScooper]

I'm not a sox fan so I'll defer to your expertice. It sure seemed like around here, in these parts, they thought veritek was great, even better than Posada.

They also seemed to think Papelbon was something special.

Posada was very good but was he great? He only received 17 votes his one and only year on the Hall of Fame ballot. I'd say he was slightly better than Varitek over his career.

Papelbon was really good for about 10-12 years. And dominant some of those years. Look it up.

Jonathan Papelbon Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Jonathan Papelbon. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

 

[TheHorde]

Posada was very good but was he great? He only received 17 votes his one and only year on the Hall of Fame ballot. I'd say he was slightly better than Varitek over his career.

Papelbon was really good for about 10-12 years. And dominant some of those years. Look it up.

Jonathan Papelbon Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Jonathan Papelbon. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Posada was the better player. All three of these guys fall into the good to very good player category, but not HOF caliber player category or really even in the conversation IMO.

 

[olehead]

Smith?

Yep. My bad, made the edit. Thanks.

 

[Kolumbo]

Posada was very good but was he great? He only received 17 votes his one and only year on the Hall of Fame ballot. I'd say he was slightly better than Varitek over his career.

Papelbon was really good for about 10-12 years. And dominant some of those years. Look it up.

Jonathan Papelbon Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More | Baseball-Reference.com

Check out the latest Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Rookie Status & More of Jonathan Papelbon. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, bats, throws, school and more on Baseball-reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Posada wasn't just slightly better than Veritek. Posada was much better than Veritek and Papelbon, especially if you want to base it on HOF votes.

 

[TheHorde]

Posada wasn't just slightly better than Veritek. Posada was much better than Veritek and Papelbon, especially if you want to base it on HOF votes.

On a WAR basis, Posada had a career WAR that was about 18 higher than Varitek. Roughly about 1.4-1.5 more WAR per season, which is fairly substantial.

 

[HooperScooper]

Posada wasn't just slightly better than Veritek. Posada was much better than Veritek and Papelbon, especially if you want to base it on HOF votes.

Did you look at Papelbon's career?

Yankees fan vs. Red Sox fan. We will never agree.

 

[TheHorde]

Yankees fan vs. Red Sox fan. We will never agree.

I’m a Red Sox fan, and can fairly admit Posada was a good deal better. But I don’t think Posada is a HOF. He was a very good player but the stats say he wasn’t on the Pudge Rodriguez level.

 

[Excalibur]

.326 my bad, the point still remains that winning an mvp is a lot about luck especially someone who isn't a slugger.

Pedroia definitely benefited from a weak field.

 

[Excalibur]

OK, you're sour grapes that the Giants beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl and need to belittle Eli's contribution by pointing out a couple of breaks that went his way. I was simply pointing out the Patriots also had some breaks go their way. They also would have lost to Seattle and Atlanta if not for coaching malpractice.

If the Falcons had simply kneeled on the football every play in the second half, they would have won the game. The Patriots would have run out of time.

 

[TheHorde]

If the Falcons had simply kneeled on the football every play in the second half, they would have won the game. The Patriots would have run out of time.

But Tom Brady not getting a break in say the falcons and Seahawks SBs means he’d have 5 rings not 7. And would still be a first ballot no doubt HOFer. Take away Eli’s and hed have 0 rings, a mediocre career record, and a mediocre career TD to interception ratio. That’s really what this thread is about.

 

[Kolumbo]

Pedroia definitely benefited from a weak field.

In one post you say Posada was not great because he only got 17 HOF votes, and then you say Papelbon was very good while he only got 5 HOF votes. Papelbon is one of those guys who probably benefited more by his teammates and not being heavy.

 

[Excalibur]

In one post you say Posada was not great because he only got 17 HOF votes, and then you say Papelbon was very good while he only got 5 HOF votes. Papelbon is one of those guys who probably benefited more by his teammates and not being heavy.

I never said any of those things

 

[storrsroars]

Posada is a waste of a retired number.

How come Cano, Stottlemyre and Gardiner don't have their #s retired. All had better career WAR with NYY than Posada, Mattingly, Guidry, O'Neill and Rizzuto.

 

[runner11]

I love how we have this certainty that UConn fans are good and smart and PC fans are dumb and scum and then have an NY/Boston debate and it becomes very obvious we are all the same.

 

[Kolumbo]

I never said any of those things

Sorry, I meant to reply to @HooperScooper . I don't know what happened. I blame a computer glitch.

 

[Scoe]

But Tom Brady not getting a break in say the falcons and Seahawks SBs means he’d have 5 rings not 7. And would still be a first ballot no doubt HOFer. Take away Eli’s and hed have 0 rings, a mediocre career record, and a mediocre career TD to interception ratio. That’s really what this thread is about.

Brady is the GOAT so why would you be so up in arms about Eli we know why because when it comes to Bradys career his story isn’t told without Eli beating Brady in both those superbowls especially taking away 19-0 from Brady.

History is based off of what happened not what you think should’ve happened your upset that Eli had 2 gw drives on the Pats ending perfection and not getting revenge in the 2nd Super Bowl.

 

[TheHorde]

Brady is the GOAT so why would you be so up in arms about Eli we know why because when it comes to Bradys career his story isn’t told without Eli beating Brady in both those superbowls especially taking away 19-0 from Brady.

History is based off of what happened not what you think should’ve happened your upset that Eli had 2 gw drives on the Pats ending perfection and not getting revenge in the 2nd Super Bowl.

I didn’t bring Brady up first. Haters did if you go back and reread the thread talking about the “breaks” he got in certain SBs. Imo they evened out with the particulars I mentioned about the 2 SBs vs the Giants. The main point which has a few Giants fans upset is that Eli is an interesting candidate for this thread. He only had a career 60.3% completion percentage in the illegal contact era. He only had a 1.5:1 (roughly) TD to interception ratio. And his career record was 118-118. Without the 2 SBs, his legacy is TOTALLY different. And he indisputably got breaks of certain kinds in both games.

 

[Scoe]

Remember when the Pats went 19-0.

 

[Excalibur]

Sorry, I meant to reply to @HooperScooper . I don't know what happened. I blame a computer glitch.

I knew that, I just wanted to give you cr@p about it . . .

 

[nomar]

Most of them weren't "officially caught."

That was much earlier. Ortiz was tested over and over by people knowing what to look for. Nada.

 

[superjohn]

That was much earlier. Ortiz was tested over and over by people knowing what to look for. Nada.

MLB testing was an absolute joke. There's no way you believe Ortiz and Sammy Sosa were clean.

 

[nomar]

MLB testing was an absolute joke. There's no way you believe Ortiz and Sammy Sosa were clean.

Equating the two is an absolute joke.

You're ignoring the difference in testing between different time periods. A lot of people have been caught and suspended.

Everybody's innocent until proven guilty with you unless they play on a team you don't like?

 

[superjohn]

Equating the two is an absolute joke.

You're ignoring the difference in testing between different time periods. A lot of people have been caught and suspended.

Everybody's innocent until proven guilty with you unless they play on a team you don't like?

They were both on the 2003 list and neither has tested positive since. Dude, it's a piss test. MLB testing has always been a joke.

Once again you're projecting. I'm a die hard Yankee fan and of course most of them were on steroids. I always call it straight.

 

[Scoe]

I didn’t bring Brady up first. Haters did if you go back and reread the thread talking about the “breaks” he got in certain SBs. Imo they evened out with the particulars I mentioned about the 2 SBs vs the Giants. The main point which has a few Giants fans upset is that Eli is an interesting candidate for this thread. He only had a career 60.3% completion percentage in the illegal contact era. He only had a 1.5:1 (roughly) TD to interception ratio. And his career record was 118-118. Without the 2 SBs, his legacy is TOTALLY different. And he indisputably got breaks of certain kinds in both games.

That’s football a game of inches of course Eli legacy is different without the 2 superbowls. The Giants haven’t exactly lit the world on fire since Eli has been gone. Put Eli on the Steelers and he probably has at least 3 superbowls. Sports are full of what ifs so is history in general.

I can tell your still upset about the 2 Giant losses in the Super Bowl.