OT: - Hats off to Tom Brady | Page 5 | The Boneyard

OT: Hats off to Tom Brady

HuskyHawk said:
I get your point, but Rodgers has had some stellar teams. They haven't all been bad. And he certainly had much better weapons this year than Brady had last year...by a lot. Better weapons than Brady had in the 2018 superbowl too.

The best I've seen from the way you are looking at it is probably Peyton Manning. Brady and Rodgers are top 5. Next, maybe Marino. It is hard to judge Marino though, because what he and Fouts did was play an offensive style that was a decade ahead of what was to come. Montana was a perfect fit for Walsh's offense. His ability to lead receivers and generate YAC was unmatched.

Brady benefitted from the fact that they built the offense to suit him. Timing throws in rhythm with precise route running and complex pre-snap adjustments based on what Brady saw. When he got to Tampa, Bruce changed his system and Brady still struggled at first. They have receivers galore down there and added Antonio Brown and Gronk to what was already a top group. Brady can't improvise worth a crap. It isn't what he does. QBs are successful in part based on their skills matching the offensive scheme. That's where Rodgers has a gripe.
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He's had some weapons Davante Adams is the best receiver he's ever had, Jordy Nelson, Jennings, Driver. Jermichael Finley is the best tight end he ever had. For Rodgers career his defenses rank 16th in the nfl, for Brady's career his defenses rank 7th nfl. Brady has had a top 10 defense 17 times, he's had the #1 defense 3 times. Rodgers has had a top 10 defense 3 times, the one time he had a top 5 defense is his one Super Bowl win. The biggest difference is at the top though...Mike McCarthy is a garbage coach, Belichick is arguably the best ever...This all goes to my point that it's a team game.
 
Guapo said:
Obviously, it’s not just entirely just about the rings - talent plays a role too. But, you seem to be forgetting that Brady has the statistical significant seasons as well.

The Bradshaw comparison is an insult to the intelligence of any football fan.
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I don't forget at all Brady has great statistics, some of the best ever. Rodgers has the best statistics ever.

I brought up Montana and Bradshaw because all anyone in this thread and everywhere else talks about is rings. Somehow the game of football is only about rings and QB's. I used to argue all the time with people when I was younger about Montana. They all said he was the best football player ever, he wasn't even the best player on his own team and you can make a pretty strong argument his backup quarterback was better than him.
 
superjohn said:
He's had some weapons Davante Adams is the best receiver he's ever had, Jordy Nelson, Jennings, Driver. Jermichael Finley is the best tight end he ever had. For Rodgers career his defenses rank 16th in the nfl, for Brady's career his defenses rank 7th nfl. Brady has had a top 10 defense 17 times, he's had the #1 defense 3 times. Rodgers has had a top 10 defense 3 times, the one time he had a top 5 defense is his one Super Bowl win. The biggest difference is at the top though...Mike McCarthy is a garbage coach, Belichick is arguably the best ever...This all goes to my point that it's a team game.
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Well, the chicken and the egg experiment with him and Brady has 2-3 years left to see what happens.
 
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superjohn said:
What are you confused about? Rodgers has the best statistics of any QB ever.
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Seems like you're being willfully obtuse for some reason. What statistics? It's not wins, super bowls, passing yards, passing touchdowns, QBR, height, weight, bench press . . .

Again, I think Rogers is awesome but what does it mean when you say he has the best statistics of any QB ever?
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
Seems like you're being willfully obtuse for some reason. What statistics? It's not wins, super bowls, passing yards, passing touchdowns, QBR, height, weight, bench press . . .

Again, I think Rogers is awesome but what does it mean when you say he has the best statistics of any QB ever?
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Best QBR ever for a career by a significant margin, best TD% for a career in the modern era, best Int % for a career in the modern era.
 
superjohn said:
What are you confused about? Rodgers has the best statistics of any QB ever.
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He can't even claim to be the top at major statistical categories, never mind having the best aggregate. His one category of being #1? Pass interception %.

Yards per game? Nope.
TD's per game? Nope.
Completion %? Nope.
Passer Rating? Nope.

He won't touch Brady or Brees for career passing yards, completions or TD's.

1-4 in NFC championship games.
 
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superjohn said:
He said I seem to forget Brady's statistics, I don't.
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If you’re comparing him to Bradshaw, than you clearly are...or you’re just being purposely obtuse
 
With 2;05 left to go in the game and you kick a field goal? You still have to have a TD and have to use all your timeouts when TB has the ball and i think the fact that you are up against Brady adds to the stupidity of that move. SMFH.
 
Chin Diesel said:
He can't even claim to be the top at major statistical categories, never mind having the best aggregate. His one category of being #1? Pass interception %.

Yards per game? Nope.
TD's per game? Nope.
Completion %? Nope.
Passer Rating? Nope.

He won't touch Brady or Brees for career passing yards, completions or TD's.

1-4 in NFC championship games.
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I wasn't including Mahomes because he's been QB for 3 seasons, I don't consider that a career. For anyone who has played a full career Rodgers is statistically better percentage wise in pretty much every category I'm aware of.
 
superjohn said:
I wasn't including Mahomes because he's been QB for 3 seasons, I don't consider that a career. For anyone who has played a full career Rodgers is statistically better percentage wise in pretty much every category I'm aware of.
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Well, it appears you found the one stat to hang your hat on and your are comfortable with your position. But, you are wrong.
 
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The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. Vince Lombardi

Brady rarely has the best athletes on his teams. He has had great coaching and wins games. By his own admission there are/have been better athletes at the QB position. Not better winners.

Winning takes talent, to repeat takes character. John Wooden
 
Huskygamble19 said:
With 2;05 left to go in the game and you kick a field goal? You still have to have a TD and have to use all your timeouts when TB has the ball and i think the fact that you are up against Brady adds to the stupidity of that move. SMFH.
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I thought the same at the time and probably still do, but a co-worker was trying to point out the logic of the field goal decision because they still needed another stop and another score even if they got to a tie and went to OT, so perhaps they were better off taking the sure points instead of risking coming away with none?

I don't know. I just felt at the time that failing to get a touchdown out of that possession was the end of the game because it deflated Green Bay. Also thought Rodgers had at least two chances to run it in or at least get really close himself during that set of downs, but he opted for forced passes that were incomplete instead.

That was winning time, and he lost.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
No, I mean the part about Rogers having the best statistics ever?
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Not to oversimplify anything, but I move to basketball to make an analogy.

There has been a great debate over who was better, Russell or Chamberlin. I think Chamberlin had better statistics overall, but Russell' s teams had more championships by far while the two were playing in that era.

Maybe, it comes down to that.

Granted, one can argue Russell had better players around him and I have not researched that. And, maybe Auerbach was a better coach than anyone the Lakers had at that time.

So then, if a pivotal player's team wins championships, I would think that fact wins over over a pure statistical comparison to another great player in any sport. Teams are more than one player, but a dominant player has a way of stimulating the other players around him.

One can argue Brady's stats for yesterday's game were not mind-blowing, but he threw the passes he needed to, and his number of Super Bowl victories and championship games do count for a lot.
 
Improviser said:
Not to oversimplify anything, but I move to basketball to make an analogy.

There has been a great debate over who was better, Russell or Chamberlin. I think Chamberlin had better statistics overall, but Russell' s teams had more championships by far while the two were playing in that era.

Maybe, it comes down to that.

Granted, one can argue Russell had better players around him and I have not researched that. And, maybe Auerbach was a better coach than anyone the Lakers had at that time.

So then, if a pivotal player's team wins championships, I would think that fact wins over over a pure statistical comparison to another great player in any sport. Teams are more than one player, but a dominant player has a way of stimulating the other players around him.

One can argue Brady's stats for yesterday's game were not mind-blowing, but he threw the passes he needed to, and his number of Super Bowl victories and championship games do count for a lot.
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superjohn said:
Best QBR ever for a career by a significant margin, best TD% for a career in the modern era, best Int % for a career in the modern era.
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QBR is crap (unless you think Chad Pennington was better than Marino, Favre and Staubach). But by that measure he is behind Mahomes and Desean Watson.
NFL Passer Rating Career Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com (pro-football-reference.com)

Passing yards per game? That is also Mahomes. Brady is 9th at 263 and Rodgers is 13th at 260.

Yards per attempt? Otto Graham amazingly enough. In the modern era, that would be... Mahomes again, with Watson next behind him.
 
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The fact is Brady is the greatest disciplined and respected QB, with talent in the upper tier. He was a member of a team that recruited wicked smaht players, shut up and do your job attitude, and everyone wins. You never saw Brady waving his arms to the crowd like he is all that.....while your team is up by twenty taunting your beaten opponent. He has always been about the team, vocal when he needs to be, and just carries himself the way you would want to see. It's no secret the Bucs needed his style to carry them to the next level. The players on his team know he delivers the best shot at a ring, and that environment becomes contagious.
He does have Belichick DNA in him....the same DNA that came from Parcels.
 
8893 said:
I thought the same at the time and probably still do, but a co-worker was trying to point out the logic of the field goal decision because they still needed another stop and another score even if they got to a tie and went to OT, so perhaps they were better off taking the sure points instead of risking coming away with none?

I don't know. I just felt at the time that failing to get a touchdown out of that possession was the end of the game because it deflated Green Bay. Also thought Rodgers had at least two chances to run it in or at least get really close himself during that set of downs, but he opted for forced passes that were incomplete instead.

That was winning time, and he lost.
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I would have gone for it. But yes, they needed a 2 point conversion even if they got it. The FG meant that a simple TD wins it for them. Without the FG, if they failed, got the ball back and scored a TD, they still needed to convert a 2 pt just to tie. But given that they'd pin Tampa deep if they went for it an failed, I think that was still the right move.
 
Chin Diesel said:
QBR. A stat that didn't exist until a few years ago and no one cares about.
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Rodgers has the best passer rating for a career, best QBR rating for a career, fastest ever to 400 touchdowns, best td% ever for a career in modern era, best int% ever for a career.

Rodgers has started 190 games, Brees 286 games, Brady 299, Peyton 265. Of course he's behind them in all-time passing yardage and TD's.
 
superjohn said:
I wasn't including Mahomes because he's been QB for 3 seasons, I don't consider that a career. For anyone who has played a full career Rodgers is statistically better percentage wise in pretty much every category I'm aware of.
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Lol you realize if mahomes wins this year and doesn't play another game he would likely get into the hall of fame? Also your argument for Rodgers is QBR? yikes.
 
superjohn said:
Rodgers has the best passer rating for a career, best QBR rating for a career, fastest ever to 400 touchdowns, best td% ever for a career in modern era, best int% ever for a career.

Rodgers has started 190 games, Brees 286 games, Brady 299, Peyton 265. Of course he's behind them in all-time passing yardage and TD's.
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Why so few starts? Durability problems perhaps? He has played for 15 years.
 
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