GoT Season Seven

[intlzncster]

None of it made any sense. They were play acting to trick littlefinger. Except they never actually tricked him into anything. And what they ended up killing him for was all stuff that previously happened (and presumably confirmed/revealed to them by Bran), and none of which was discovered during these tricks.

So the whole thing was just fabricated tension in order to have a big "reveal" that they were working together. "shock" littlefinger death, happy audience that the stark sisters are on the same team. Weak writing.

These are very good points. I've no problem with the tricking Littlefinger thing. But they didn't trick him.

I would have preferred them to have tricked him into being left in some precarious, death inducing situation somehow.

 

[SubbaBub]

I also wondered: Can Bran 'Warg in the past' so to speak? I mean, he saw the Hodor thing at Winterfell, and there isn't a Godwood inside the keep, no?




It's a tough balance. A lot of their writing is a result of have just a handful of episodes to accomplish everything. I think the story could be much, much tighter had they gone ahead with 3 ten episode seasons.

It's weird that Bran is just hanging out with all the regular folk. The previous 3 eyed raven was stuck under a tree above the wall. So his impact on daily Westerosi life was negligible.

I don't think the trees act like camera. I think it's more of the have been around forever and are part of the earth. Essentially a conduit that allows Bran to tie himself into the consciousness of the planet. It's magic, but at least grounded magic if that makes sense.

I also assumed that everyone in the hall had been briefed on Littlefinger before they gathered. I'm also going to assume they left some expository material on the editing room floor because no one on the show can time out anything and it had to be cut for more Dany in the Sahara moments from season 4. Planning people, it works.

The bag of faces fight could have been for LF benefit, Arya could have gone back later to tell Sansa she had been using them to stalk LF, we could have seen them talking to Bran. 20 seconds of any of it would have helped. Instead we are left to assume all of that happened in secret while every little play acted spat made its way back to LF. That's all fine and dandy if you assume the Vale knights already had it in for LF, which they did, but we didn't see any of it.

They could just as well had Arya kill him like she did Frey. The I know what you did followed by a swift knife to the throat. The staged trial only make you hate Sansa more amirite @August_West ?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't think the trees act like camera. I think it's more of the have been around forever and are part of the earth. Essentially a conduit that allows Bran to tie himself into the consciousness of the planet. It's magic, but at least grounded magic if that makes sense.

I also assumed that everyone in the hall had been briefed on Littlefinger before they gathered. I'm also going to assume they left some expository material on the editing room floor because no one on the show can time out anything and it had to be cut for more Dany in the Sahara moments from season 4. Planning people, it works.

The bag of faces fight could have been for LF benefit, Arya could have gone back later to tell Sansa she had been using them to stalk LF, we could have seen them talking to Bran. 20 seconds of any of it would have helped. Instead we are left to assume all of that happened in secret while every little play acted spat made its way back to LF. That's all fine and dandy if you assume the Vale knights already had it in for LF, which they did, but we didn't see any of it.

They could just as well had Arya kill him like she did Frey. The I know what you did followed by a swift knife to the throat. The staged trial only make you hate Sansa more amirite @August_West ?

Agree with most of this. The staged trial though, and the fact that he was accused of murdering Lysa, and providing the poison that killed John Arryn was critical. The representatives of the Vale were there in the room for a reason, and those charges served to tie house Arryn to house Stark more tightly than Littlefinger ever could. They needed that army, and had to dispose of Baelish without losing them. It was brilliant really. Unfortunately, the writers didn't see fit to show us how they planned and executed it, and instead gave us misdirection for a cheap moment.

 

[Excalibur]

Agree with most of this. The staged trial though, and the fact that he was accused of murdering Lysa, and providing the poison that killed John Arryn was critical. The representatives of the Vale were there in the room for a reason, and those charges served to tie house Arryn to house Stark more tightly than Littlefinger ever could. They needed that army, and had to dispose of Baelish without losing them. It was brilliant really. Unfortunately, the writers didn't see fit to show us how they planned and executed it, and instead gave us misdirection for a cheap moment.

I think that they wanted to recreate the surprise of Baelish's betrayal of Ned in the throne room in Season 1, as if things have come full circle. To do that they needed the element of surprise. It ended up being a mistake since maintaining surprise left too many unanswered questions as to how the whole situation came to be.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I think that they wanted to recreate the surprise of Baelish's betrayal of Ned in the throne room in Season 1, as if things have come full circle. To do that they needed the element of surprise. It ended up being a mistake since maintaining surprise left too many unanswered questions as to how the whole situation came to be.

But it would still be a surprise for Baelish, and it would have been a coming-full-circle thing regardless. This time we would finally have a look in to the moment-by-moment scheming and long-game playing by the Stark kids.

Most of the surprise, from a viewer's perspective, came from us not knowing Ned was about to be betrayed. Meanwhile, we had known Baelish was going to eventually die, and we all could have made a decent prediction regarding how he dies, for a while. It has been building for about as long as anything else in the series has... and THAT'S the payoff we get.

 

[ZooCougar]

You guys are crazy. That was a great scene.

 

[ZooCougar]

Littlefinger was killed because of magic, basically out of nowhere. The worst part of it is that Subba predicted the "Scooby doo" solution of the Winterfell arc weeks ago. If this is a show about whose magic is better, than why should we care about any of the characters?

Typical Waylon. He watches something in the Fantasy genre and complains about magic. That's like watching Science Fiction and complaining about science.

 

[intlzncster]

Typical Waylon. He watches something in the Fantasy genre and complains about magic. That's like watching Science Fiction and complaining about science.

hahahahaha that was good.

 

[Scalito]

Littlefinger was killed because of magic, basically out of nowhere. The worst part of it is that Subba predicted the "Scooby doo" solution of the Winterfell arc weeks ago. If this is a show about whose magic is better, than why should we care about any of the characters?

Don't watch a fantasy series with dragons if magic bothers you. It's like watching a sci-fi movie and complaining that the good guys miraculously discovered new technology right in the nick of time.

 

[junglehusky]

There are plenty of bad tropes in run-of-the-mill sci-fi. Here are a few more examples.

 

[Scalito]

These are very good points. I've no problem with the tricking Littlefinger thing. But they didn't trick him.

I would have preferred them to have tricked him into being left in some precarious, death inducing situation somehow.

I don't think Arya and Sansa were playacting for Littlefinger's benefit. The fights and spats could be real and yet Sansa still could have "tricked" Littlefinger into revealing his game by taking him into her confidence.

Sansa stiffed Littlefinger until things became dicey with Arya, but she also reminded Brienne that they needed him and that he saved the North for them. In other words, she didn't like him or trust him, but she felt indebted to him.

The trick was smoking him out by opening up to him about the real fight with Arya, and thereby determining he was behind it all yet again. That then brought the two sisters together, led to a consultation with a 3-Eyed Raven and wala. Dead Littlefinger.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't think Arya and Sansa were playacting for Littlefinger's benefit. The fights and spats could be real and yet Sansa still could have "tricked" Littlefinger into revealing his game by taking him into her confidence.

Sansa stiffed Littlefinger until things became dicey with Arya, but she also reminded Brienne that they needed him and that he saved the North for them. In other words, she didn't like him or trust him, but she felt indebted to him.

The trick was smoking him out by opening up to him about the real fight with Arya, and thereby determining he was behind it all yet again. That then brought the two sisters together, led to a consultation with a 3-Eyed Raven and wala. Dead Littlefinger.

That makes sense, but at the same time, seems all too clever or intuitive for someone of Sansa's 'means'.

 

[August_West]

That makes sense, but at the same time, seems all too clever or intuitive for someone of Sansa's 'means'.

Shes dumb as a stump.

And I love this thread.

The immediate aftermath here after Littlefingers death was to come here and hate on Adub and hold up Sansa as some kind of genius to try and get under my skin.

And then the dust clears and I read 3 pages of people talking about how Arya and Bran had a big part in orchestrating this. Which is what I initially said.

 

[intlzncster]

The immediate aftermath here after Littlefingers death was to come here and hate on Adub and hold up Sansa as some kind of genius to try and get under my skin.

Don't forget reveling in the demise of Spartacus's hero. Not a shock one of the winners (in another thread) of most narcissistic cesspoolers excludes the other from shared glory.

 

[August_West]

Don't forget reveling in the demise of Spartacus's hero. Not a shock one of the winners (in another thread) of most narcissistic cesspoolers excludes the other from shared glory.

Hes a putz

 

[intlzncster]

Hes a putz

Do I detect a hint of jealousy there? I think I do....

August just doesn't want to share the stage. SAD

 

[August_West]

Do I detect a hint of jealousy there? I think I do....

August just doesn't want to share the stage. SAD

I dont come here for the attention. I come here for the Lulz.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Shes dumb as a stump.

And I love this thread.

The immediate aftermath here after Littlefingers death was to come here and hate on Adub and hold up Sansa as some kind of genius to try and get under my skin.

And then the dust clears and I read 3 pages of people talking about how Arya and Bran had a big part in orchestrating this. Which is what I initially said.

Fair, but you give Sansa sole blame for everything bad that happened. You say repeatedly, "she got her father killed, she got her brother killed, she got her entire family killed etc".

As if nobody else had any part in orchestrating these things.

You blame her for entirely for everything and give her no credit for anything good.

 

[intlzncster]

I dont come here for the attention. I come here for the Lulz.

hahahha Says the guy who starts many threads with long screeds on his life. You collect laughs as like a scoreboard.

 

[intlzncster]

Fair, but you give Sansa sole blame for everything bad that happened. You say repeatedly, "she got her father killed, she got her brother killed, she got her entire family killed etc".

As if nobody else had any part in orchestrating these things.

You blame her for entirely for everything and give her no credit for anything good.

White Knight! We've got a White Knight over here!

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

White Knight! We've got a White Knight over here!

edit: meant to say, I just like giving August a hard time for his poor arguments re-Sansa.

I re-watched the finale last night and think you have it right.

I think Sansa either realizes LF plans after his little speech to her, or Bran tells her.

Either way I don't think it was play acting by Sansa and Arya. Which I pointed out earlier made no sense since their play acting never got them anywhere; they didnt trick him into revealing anything etc.

So I think it really was them arguing for whatever reason up until the end when Sansa realizes/ is told she needs to off LF.

The whole winterfell plot was just strange and didn't make much sense.

 

[billythekid]

I think Sansa either realizes LF plans after his little speech to her, or Bran tells her.

Either way I don't think it was play acting by Sansa and Arya. Which I pointed out earlier made no sense since their play acting never got them anywhere; they didnt trick him into revealing anything etc.

So I think it really was them arguing for whatever reason up until the end when Sansa realizes/ is told she needs to off LF.

Just read this interview with the actor who plays Bran. According to him, I think you have it correct.

"There was a little scene that we did shoot, which I don’t think made it in there, where Sansa comes to Bran’s door and asks if he can help. I’m sure we’ll see that on the DVD’s deleted scenes."

 

[August_West]

Just read this interview with the actor who plays Bran. According to him, I think you have it correct.

"There was a little scene that we did shoot, which I don’t think made it in there, where Sansa comes to Bran’s door and asks if he can help. I’m sure we’ll see that on the DVD’s deleted scenes."

Its like the Zapruder film for proof that Sansa isnt very smart.

 

[businesslawyer]

Fair, but you give Sansa sole blame for everything bad that happened. You say repeatedly, "she got her father killed, she got her brother killed, she got her entire family killed etc".

As if nobody else had any part in orchestrating these things.

You blame her for entirely for everything and give her no credit for anything good.

I feel like you just summarized Palatine's and others whinings about HCREv1

 

[intlzncster]

Just read this interview with the actor who plays Bran. According to him, I think you have it correct.

"There was a little scene that we did shoot, which I don’t think made it in there, where Sansa comes to Bran’s door and asks if he can help. I’m sure we’ll see that on the DVD’s deleted scenes."

How stupid do you have to be not to include what's probably a 2 minute clip just to make everything nice and clear? Total fail.

 

[HuskyHawk]

How stupid do you have to be not to include what's probably a 2 minute clip just to make everything nice and clear? Total fail.

They wanted the surprise I guess. I would prefer another minute or two where they talk to Arya after this scene.

 

[Rocktheworld]

How stupid do you have to be not to include what's probably a 2 minute clip just to make everything nice and clear? Total fail.

That really pisses me off

Could've saved several scenes of ambiguity, like when Sansa finds Arya's masks, and there's several freed-up minutes

 

[Deepster]

Shes dumb as a stump.

And I love this thread.

The immediate aftermath here after Littlefingers death was to come here and hate on Adub and hold up Sansa as some kind of genius to try and get under my skin.

And then the dust clears and I read 3 pages of people talking about how Arya and Bran had a big part in orchestrating this. Which is what I initially said.

She's in charge. Littlefinger went down on her watch. Great leadership starts with surrounding yourself with the right people. Yet, she gets BLAME for offing maybe the smartest schemer in the game? Those are the LULZ, bud.

 

[Rocktheworld]

She's in charge. Littlefinger went down on her watch. Great leadership starts with surrounding yourself with the right people. Yet, she gets BLAME for offing maybe the smartest schemer in the game? Those are the LULZ, bud.

I'm way over this show but now I have to watch Sansa live to the end just to have the context for when Auggie melts here

 

[intlzncster]

I'm way over this show but now I have to watch Sansa live to the end just to have the context for when Auggie melts here

If Jon appoints her queen of Westeros..... August_West