Expansion Rumors site profiles UConn

[woomba]

I mis-spoke when I said New York. Here are NFL players by state of high school: http://www.maxpreps.com/news/J_G3Ol...ery-active-nfl-player-went-to-high-school.htm

Connecticut doubles up Massachusetts and has 71% more NFL players than the other NE states combined. It produces more than 3/4 as many NFL players as NY despite having less than 1/5 the population.

You're right about FBS players which tracks population more closely, although Connecticut has equalled Massachusetts in recent years as a source of FBS players (eg 2013, see http://footballrecruiting. /content.asp?CID=1470883). But as you go to better quality -- I said BCS -- Connecticut does better relative to Mass, New England, and NY.

BCS is an odd metric to use since that term is dying this year - but it doesn't really change much. Massachusetts actually did better than I thought they would when I looked up the past few years on r_i_v_a_l_s:

2011 NY - 32 (!!! not sure what happened here)
2012 NY - 15
2013 NY - 13
2011 Conn - 7
2012 Conn - 3
2013 Conn -9
2011 Mass - 10
2012 Mass - 12
2013 Mass - 8

 

[NEforceUConn]

All true. But, my point was that Clemson believes that they can still compete for the national title from here. I believe they are correct in that assumption.

The ACC's naysayers have been putting out the thought that its champion would basically be automatically left out of the 4-team playoff annually, and, thats just not true. In 2011, CU were ranked No 5, until late-season losses at NCSU and South Carolina. VPI was later ranked in the top 5, until CU spanked them in the ACCCG. Had either of them won out, they would've been ranked in the Top 4, and thus, eligible for the playoff. Ditto FSU last season. Like CU, they suffered a late-season loss to NCSU, and, then tanked vs Florida. Had FSU won out, they, not Alabama, would have played ND for the title.

The ACC chances to make a statement win have been there for the taking, but, have gone begging.

Lets assume the ACC champ has 2 losses and so does ND.

Lets assume its (another) off year in the PAC 12 ie a 3 loss Champ, so we have SEC, B1G, and BIG 12 champs claiming 3 spots. Who does the last one go to - the 2 loss ACC champ, a 2 loss ND, or a 2 loss SEC runner up?

Notice I don't even mention a 1 loss Boise or a 1 loss AAC.

 

[woomba]

Lets assume the ACC champ has 2 losses and so does ND.

Lets assume its (another) off year in the PAC 12 ie a 3 loss Champ, so we have SEC, B1G, and BIG 12 champs claiming 3 spots. Who does the last one go to - the 2 loss ACC champ, a 2 loss ND, or a 2 loss SEC runner up?

Notice I don't even mention a 1 loss Boise or a 1 loss AAC.

A 10-2 ND is an interesting situation - if they're undefeated in ACC play which includes the ACC winner I have to think that they would get the nod there

 

[upstater]

BCS is an odd metric to use since that term is dying this year - but it doesn't really change much. Massachusetts actually did better than I thought they would when I looked up the past few years on r_i_v_a_l_s:

2011 NY - 32 (!!! not sure what happened here)
2012 NY - 15
2013 NY - 13
2011 Conn - 7
2012 Conn - 3
2013 Conn -9
2011 Mass - 10
2012 Mass - 12
2013 Mass - 8

I guarantee something is very wrong in those numbers. Rivals has 7 for Conn in 2012, and 10 for 2013, and 10 for 2011. The link above somehow missed 8 players.

 

[woomba]

I guarantee something is very wrong in those numbers. Rivals has 7 for Conn in 2012, and 10 for 2013, and 10 for 2011. The link above somehow missed 8 players.

Ah - I filtered out non-'BCS' conference schools in the numbers since that's what he was referring to.

I included schools like Temple and UCF that are now AAC since AAC is technically BCS but even if you take those schools out the general numbers don't really move much.

 

[BlueHen]

A 13-0 ACC champ will be fine. I think the danger will be in a hypothetical where there are multiple one-loss champs vying for the #4 spot. In that situation the ACC will be outside looking in most years unless there's something screwy with the schedule that year (i.e. only loss is a OT loss to a #1 ranked SEC team early in the season)

The problem is that it's hard to predict how often that will happen - my guess is 2-3 times over the next 12 years, which I personally don't think is enough to justify switching conferences over.

I think the playoffs will be expanded to 8 teams fairly quickly. 5 "power" conferences don't fit into a 4 team playoff, especially when it's possible for 1 conference to have 2 teams in the playoff and a good Notre Dame team can also get a spot.

The ACC is in the weakest position for a 4 team playoff. It is regarded as the 5th best "power" conference and it has to deal with Notre Dame. If Notre Dame makes the playoffs it will be doing so in large part at the ACC's expense.

 

[btstimpy]

No, it has not been good for them. Nobody currently in the ACC will ever see them as a true rival, in the way that UConn would. Or, in the way that they should see UConn. That they're so willingly blind about it tells me all I need to know about their leadership.

This is true. UConn, BC, and Syracuse for that matter would generate a great rivalry. I could even have an Ice Hockey element to it. BC would have to pick it up a notch in basketball, but that is not outside the realm of possibility. Right now BC is sitting as Virginia Tech's designated rival in football. No Hokie that I know, and I know more than I care to, thinks of BC as their rival school in football. In fact if you go on their conference realignment board many of them want West Virginia. They view West Virginia as their second rival after UVA. Pittsburgh might even like that too. West Virginia isn't available though.

But back to Boston College, the reasoning they give for not wanting Connecticut is short sighted and a foreign concept for those of us that are of a competitive nature. It would boost interest in college sports in New England, and it would be good for student athletes. It would also help out the ACC.

Now the Southern members of the ACC would want something in return for inviting UConn. They don't like travelling north as much as they do now. Plus the fans of the northern schools don't travel to games at their place much either. So the ACC would have to rework the divisions. With 16 we would have to anyway.

 

[pj]

I don't understand why the ACC doesn't have south-north divisions as it is. That would give more juice to the championship game.

 

[Dooley]

I have to admit, I'm pulling for UCONN to the B1G. But because CR beggars can't be choosers, here are my highly scientific, highly hypothetical division alignments should the ACC expand to 16 without ND as a full member.

ACC North - BCu, Fruit, Pitt, UCONN, UVA, Va Tech, UNC, NC State
ACC South - Miami, Clemson, Louisville, Ga Tech, FSU, Duke, Wake, USF/UCF

7 division games and 2 alternating/rotating division games (rotation with Notre Dame also) for 9 total conference games. Division winners play for conference championship, highest BCS rating (or whatever rating they want to use to measure schedule strength) hosts at their home stadium. More often than not, an ACC South team is going to have the higher SOS rating because more of the typical football powers are in that division. However, the undefeated ACC North winner will also have a shot at hosting. Bottomline: North hosts if they run the table, South hosts if they don't. That should keep the southern schools happy, no? Not to mention, the money making machines of the southern football schools will continue to sellout based on the traveling fanbases of the south and quality of the games.

Basketball: annually held at MSG or Barclay's. The roles reverse once winter comes. The North is the unequaled heavyweight by far so they are rewarded with a closer tourney location. Plus, NYC > Greensboro (sorry Greensboro residents). UNC and Duke are big enough heavyweights where they will get very good representation in NYC.

 

[billybud]

N-S divisions makes too much sense in a 16 team ACC...

There are some internal problems...

...GT wants to be with UNC, Duke, VT and likes where they are.

...Everybody in the North wants access to play either Miami and FSU for recruiting reasons. Thus splitting up Miami and FSU.. (adding USF to the south only complicates recruiting needs)

...UNC and Duke want to be together.

...and on & on

The south...with FSU, Miami, Clemson, GT, USF just would make great sense...thus, it ain't going to happem

 

[btstimpy]

I have to admit, I'm pulling for UCONN to the B1G. But because CR beggars can't be choosers, here are my highly scientific, highly hypothetical division alignments should the ACC expand to 16 without ND as a full member.

ACC North - BCu, Fruit, Pitt, UCONN, UVA, Va Tech, UNC, NC State
ACC South - Miami, Clemson, Louisville, Ga Tech, FSU, Duke, Wake, USF/UCF

7 division games and 2 alternating/rotating division games (rotation with Notre Dame also) for 9 total conference games. Division winners play for conference championship, highest BCS rating (or whatever rating they want to use to measure schedule strength) hosts at their home stadium. More often than not, an ACC South team is going to have the higher SOS rating because more of the typical football powers are in that division. However, the undefeated ACC North winner will also have a shot at hosting. Bottomline: North hosts if they run the table, South hosts if they don't. That should keep the southern schools happy, no? Not to mention, the money making machines of the southern football schools will continue to sellout based on the traveling fanbases of the south and quality of the games.

Basketball: annually held at MSG or Barclay's. The roles reverse once winter comes. The North is the unequaled heavyweight by far so they are rewarded with a closer tourney location. Plus, NYC > Greensboro (sorry Greensboro residents). UNC and Duke are big enough heavyweights where they will get very good representation in NYC.

I could support this as a compromise. I'd let FSU and Miami choose between USF and UCF. They have both been playing USF quite a bit lately. They might prefer USF. I have no idea what TV would prefer, Tampa or Orlando. I would schedule differently though with rotating PODS of 4 schools where the divisions of 8 would change every couple of years so that it gives a better chance to play everybody more often. We could then potentially stay at 8 conference games.

I personally would prefer Temple because of the gap in the Mid-Atlantic, but we probably would need to add another southern school in order to secure the votes for another northern school in UConn.

 

[upstater]

I could support this as a compromise. I'd let FSU and Miami choose between USF and UCF. They have both been playing USF quite a bit lately. They might prefer USF. I have no idea what TV would prefer, Tampa or Orlando. I would schedule differently though with rotating PODS of 4 schools where the divisions of 8 would change every couple of years so that it gives a better chance to play everybody more often. We could then potentially stay at 8 conference games.

I personally would prefer Temple because of the gap in the Mid-Atlantic, but we probably would need to add another southern school in order to secure the votes for another northern school in UConn.

The ACC should be more concerned that in 5 years, recent AAU inductee UConn lands in the B1G and ends this stuff about the ACC being the best basketball conference out there. I think the ACC should be a little concerned about that.

 

[Fishy]

The ACC should be more concerned that in 5 years, recent inductee UConn lands in the B1G and ends this stuff about the ACC being the best basketball conference out there. I think the ACC should be a little concerned about that.

I doubt that particularly worry has crept into their minds.

They're still hungover from the "we destroyed the Big East" kegger that ESPN threw for them.

 

[billybud]

With Duke, UNC, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, etc...I don't think that the ACC thinks that not having UConn threatens their basketball....and, when you get right down to it, football is still how a conference is judged.

Baseball IS important in the ACC, unlike the Big Ten where baseball falls way behind wrestling. But who cares if the Big 12, ACC, and SEC love their baseball....it is football, football, football.

Who cares in the end about women's basketball and soccer? How do they really draw?

 

[ctchamps]

With Duke, UNC, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, etc...I don't think that the ACC thinks that not having UConn threatens their basketball....and, when you get right down to it, football is still how a conference is judged.

Baseball IS important in the ACC, unlike the Big Ten where baseball falls way behind wrestling. But who cares if the Big 12, ACC, and SEC love their baseball....it is football, football, football.

Who cares in the end about women's basketball and soccer? How do they really draw?

That's why most of us want to go to the B!G. Relevant football conference.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Genealogy is one of my hobbies
That war was a lot like CR a lot of bluster but little action.
Shots were fired but the death toll was less than 10
My wife is a related to the Sterlings (The family that lived in Sterling CT).
A bunched moved to the Wyoming valley after &I war.
Connecticut eventually gave up their claim. The King had granted two groups the same land. (politicians never change)
However Ct settlers were allowed to keep their land.
The next targets for Ct expansion were Vermont, upstate NY , Northern Ohio and Southern Michigan.
The Midwest has a deep cultural tie to Ct. New Jersey was an earlier target of Ct expansion. Ever wonder why you have a Fairfield NJ. the first settlers were from fairfield Ct.
To add to this older tradition the great migration from Europe 1890-1920 The NE and The Eastern Midwest were the primary targets.
Often families split because of work opportunities in these industrial areas.
You might say Ct is the mother or at least cousin of the B1G.
On the other hand Steven Austin was from a Ct family and he was pretty important to Texas.

 

[billybud]

Many, if not most of us who can go back in the US before 1840, orginally came from families located on the eastern seaboard....the great Scots-Irish migration through the Carolinas into Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama and Texas.

The British settlement from New England through Georgia.

Than there were the later Prussian migration into Pennsylvania and Wisconsin....the Danes, Swedes into the western midwest, etc.

And then the later migrations to California....and here in Florida, we have the great migration of the blue hairs from Michigan.

I run into the blue haired snowbird on US 19. He's the guy in the faded mid 80's cadillac parade float, replete with masonic sticker, the windows down (broken A/C), tooling along at 35 in a 55, cigar dangling out the window. The breeze is blowing back his badly dyed reddish brown toupee, his shirt open to show off his genuine gold plated 1970 chain, as he regales his mousy, crepe throated spouse about his exploits on the local par three golf course.

It's like locusts. A plague sent by God to humble us. The blue hairs clog the restaurants from December through April....you can't find a seat before 8:00 PM. They all scurry back to where ever they go at 8:00 as if internally programmed.

Now, don't take it that I don't like these ancient blue haired refugees from the rust belt with their white belts, plaid shorts, and Pat Boone white buck shoes...I find them to be interesting as a living anachronism in the same way that I do horseshoe crabs.

If only they would run up in mass and die on the beach in August like the crabs.

 

[NickyNewark]

Stuff like this goes to show we are culturally similar to the B1G. Because we used to own some of their land! Let's take it back!

Is that the first civil strife in the US after the American Revolutionary War?

Im pretty sure it was around the same time though I'll have to look into again and let you know?Im pretty sure it was around 1773 or 74 thru till the later part of that decade!?!

 

[billybud]

The Whiskey Rebellion in western Pennsylvania in the early 1790's was probably the first civil unrest....post Revolution.

 

[Fishy]

With Duke, UNC, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, etc...I don't think that the ACC thinks that not having UConn threatens their basketball....and, when you get right down to it, football is still how a conference is judged.

Baseball IS important in the ACC, unlike the Big Ten where baseball falls way behind wrestling. But who cares if the Big 12, ACC, and SEC love their baseball....it is football, football, football.

Who cares in the end about women's basketball and soccer? How do they really draw?

Given that UConn has won more hoop titles in men's and women's hoop than basically everyone in the past decade and a half and that they're quite good at both baseball and soccer, I'd say that those sports don't count for much.

Then again, most of the schools poached from the Big East have sucked ass at football and most of the schools in the conferences that did the poaching also suck ass...maybe this s--- was just naked greed? (And a healthy dollop of ACC jealousy over their fading hoop brand.)

Football's just a convenient cover.

 

[NickyNewark]

Many, if not most of us who can go back in the US before 1840, orginally came from families located on the eastern seaboard....the great Scots-Irish migration through the Carolinas into Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama and Texas.

The British settlement from New England through Georgia.

Than there were the later Prussian migration into Pennsylvania and Wisconsin....the Danes, Swedes into the western midwest, etc.

And then the later migrations to California....and here in Florida, we have the great migration of the blue hairs from Michigan.

I run into the blue haired snowbird on US 19. He's the guy in the faded mid 80's cadillac parade float, replete with masonic sticker, the windows down (broken A/C), tooling along at 35 in a 55, cigar dangling out the window. The breeze is blowing back his badly dyed reddish brown toupee, his shirt open to show off his genuine gold plated 1970 chain, as he regales his mousy, crepe throated spouse about his exploits on the local par three golf course.

It's like locusts. A plague sent by God to humble us. The blue hairs clog the restaurants from December through April....you can't find a seat before 8:00 PM. They all scurry back to where ever they go at 8:00 as if internally programmed.

Now, don't take it that I don't like these ancient blue haired refugees from the rust belt with their white belts, plaid shorts, and Pat Boone white buck shoes...I find them to be interesting as a living anachronism in the same way that I do horseshoe crabs.

If only they would run up in mass and die on the beach in August like the crabs.

Yes most of the middle southerners who claim American as there ancestry are Scots-Irish with traditional SI surnames living along appalachian trail from Conn/NJ/NY/PA all the way to Texas/Okla/Ark and everywhere in between!Anyone interested should read the book "Born Fighting" but I can't think of the authors name?Johnny Cash,John Wayne and a great number of our presidents claim Scots Irish ancestry !!

 

[upstater]

With Duke, UNC, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, etc...I don't think that the ACC thinks that not having UConn threatens their basketball....and, when you get right down to it, football is still how a conference is judged.

Baseball IS important in the ACC, unlike the Big Ten where baseball falls way behind wrestling. But who cares if the Big 12, ACC, and SEC love their baseball....it is football, football, football.

Who cares in the end about women's basketball and soccer? How do they really draw?

I think you're wrong. The ACC is the best conference right now. With UConn, they can seal it. UConn goes to the B1G, and the ACC is no longer the best conference. The 2 are equal. If UConn and Kansas go to the B1G, the B1G becomes the best bball conference and 2nd best football, and the ACC can't lay claim to anything.

Line up the schools:

Indiana, UConn, Michigan St., Maryland, Michigan, Ohio St., Wisconsin, Purdue, Illinois, Minnesota, Iowa (and a bunch of others that are not very good)

UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, NC State, Pitt, Florida St., Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame (and also rans)

Seems pretty equal to me. Depending on your point of view, Michigan and Ohio St. might even be considered better bball schools for the time being than NC State and Pitt.

 

[Fishy]

Seems pretty equal to me. Depending on your point of view, Michigan and Ohio St. might even be considered better bball schools for the time being than NC State and Pitt.

Might?

They're definitely better.

 

[billybud]

Sucking is relative....The Big East sucked...the AAC Hoovers..

Nobody but nobody cares about the women's sports in the big picture...

Nobody cares (or probably even knows) that North Carolina's women won five of the last seven soccer national championships and Notre Dame the sixth of the seven. Complete dominance.

Or that the ACC's men's soccer has won five national championships since 2005.

That isn't important....nobody kknows, nobody cares...

 

[billybud]

Or Lacrosse...who knows?

Who knows that the ACC teams, including Syracuse as of this year, won six of the last eight men's lacrosse national championships?

Who cares?

It is football, football, football.

 

[billybud]

Penn State has owned women's volleyball...winning four of the last sic NC's...who the hell knows or cares...we wonder how the Nittany Lions will do in football this year....it is a sad state of affairs if you follow the other sports.

 

[upstater]

Sucking is relative....The Big East sucked...the AAC Hoovers..

Nobody but nobody cares about the women's sports in the big picture...

Nobody cares (or probably even knows) that North Carolina's women won five of the last seven soccer national championships and Notre Dame the sixth of the seven. Complete dominance.

Or that the ACC's men's soccer has won five national championships since 2005.

That isn't important....nobody kknows, nobody cares...

The BE was better at football than the ACC if you look at BCS bowls, championships, top ranked teams and wins. Pretty much in all metrics. The thing is, however, that West Virginia was the team that carried it, and now it's in the B12. When it came to Cuse, Pitt and Louisville, UConn had a winning record against these three in the Big East. And UConn was not very good. In other words, the ACC did not pick up the best of the BE, that's for sure.

With Miami and VT, it certainly did, but Miami then imploded. What I couldn't figure out as a BE football fan is how BC managed to make your championship game a couple times. That was a head scratcher. In its entire BE history, BC never finished higher than 3rd.

 

[ctchamps]

.I find them to be interesting as a living anachronism in the same way that I do horseshoe crabs.

If only they would run up in mass and die on the beach in August like the crabs.

I bet the Seminoles say the same thing about you. The real ones that your university stole the nickname from.

 

[ctchamps]

Penn State has owned women's volleyball...winning four of the last sic NC's...who the hell knows or cares...we wonder how the Nittany Lions will do in football this year....it is a sad state of affairs if you follow the other sports.

Obviously you know or you wouldn't have given us a heads up. BTW a program from "The" relevant football conference has been the leader in gymnastics for many years now and gets lots of fans in the seats. There's room for more than a myopic viewing of the world.

Seems like not every good old boy agrees with you.

 

[billybud]

Total BCS appearances in rankings....Top 10

FSU and VT are in top 10....No BE teams. When Miami left, the top of the draw left.


Heck...WVU won their BCS games but lost 2 of their last 3 bowl games against the ACC...and is 3-8 vs the ACC in bowls since 1989.