Expansion Rumors site profiles UConn

[btstimpy]

You puzzle me?You always promote Temple as though their some kind of sleeping giant yet denigrate a true emerging giant(hopefully) like RU?Hmm..are you a closet Temple fan?I hope so because you don't appear stupid and who else but a fan would be so delusional about a decent,hardworking but no-buzz school?Thats saying more than I'd like because I respect them and wish them the best but how high is their ceiling?Have they reached it?Now UConn is a state flagship school,ready in all sports and supported in a large area(NYC/Conn/RI/Boston) who should already be in a B5 conference and there still sweating it and by bringing Temple into the conversation until thats settled is ludicrous especially here!I'd only think Temple would be considered after the big dogs are taken care of or say if the conferences expand to 18/20!

I don't think either Philadelphia or New York cares much about college football unless it is Notre Dame in the case of New York. Both towns are College Basketball towns when it comes to college athletics. I do see Temple as a great opportunity to bring ACC basketball to the Philadelphia market, which I do believe would get a buzz about ACC basketball with regular visits from all the ACC schools plus Syracuse and hopefully Connecticut. Temple basketball is competitive enough to win its share of these games. I do prefer the addition of UConn before Temple a I've stated here many times. I'm really comparing Temple more with Cincinnati as some keep suggesting Cincinnati.

Temple has a lot of work to do in football to become a regular bowl team, and they would especially in the ACC. So would UConn or Cincinnati BTW. I don't see a major difference other than Cincinnati has now hired a high profile coach. I don't consider Rutgers as Rutgers is going to the Big Ten and isn't a consideration.

 

[upstater]

I don't think either Philadelphia or New York cares much about college football unless it is Notre Dame in the case of New York. Both towns are College Basketball towns when it comes to college athletics. I do see Temple as a great opportunity to bring ACC basketball to the Philadelphia market, which I do believe would get a buzz about ACC basketball with regular visits from all the ACC schools plus Syracuse and hopefully Connecticut. Temple basketball is competitive enough to win its share of these games. I do prefer the addition of UConn before Temple a I've stated here many times. I'm really comparing Temple more with Cincinnati as some keep suggesting Cincinnati.

Temple has a lot of work to do in football to become a regular bowl team, and they would especially in the ACC. So would UConn or Cincinnati BTW. I don't see a major difference other than Cincinnati has now hired a high profile coach. I don't consider Rutgers as Rutgers is going to the Big Ten and isn't a consideration.

You're underrating PSU in the Philly market. They care A LOT about college football there.

 

[woomba]

Penn State can't sell the Philly DMA (the BTN has failed to raise enough there) so I imagine Temple wouldn't either.

That's more of a function of the number of regional cable providers in the area though - PSU's presence did get carriage on all the national providers I'm aware of.

 

[NickyNewark]

I don't think either Philadelphia or New York cares much about college football unless it is Notre Dame in the case of New York. Both towns are College Basketball towns when it comes to college athletics. I do see Temple as a great opportunity to bring ACC basketball to the Philadelphia market, which I do believe would get a buzz about ACC basketball with regular visits from all the ACC schools plus Syracuse and hopefully Connecticut. Temple basketball is competitive enough to win its share of these games. I do prefer the addition of UConn before Temple a I've stated here many times. I'm really comparing Temple more with Cincinnati as some keep suggesting Cincinnati.

Temple has a lot of work to do in football to become a regular bowl team, and they would especially in the ACC. So would UConn or Cincinnati BTW. I don't see a major difference other than Cincinnati has now hired a high profile coach. I don't consider Rutgers as Rutgers is going to the Big Ten and isn't a consideration.

OK Stimp I get where your coming from but because of the B5 in hoops and PSU,Md and RU just to name a few CBB is spread to thin for any one school to truly dominate the market enough to "emerge" but I too would like to see Temple do better esp in there own market!NYC area cares more about CFB than you know but only when your winning and ND isn't as popular as they once were in NYC area and aren't sure if they will ever be as popular as in the 60s'/70s again but they don't have to be as there national anyways with old line catholics....heck then again the catholic church isn't as popular as then either!I myself really don't see what the ACC coming around the east is gonna give them that BE hoop's could'nt?Maybe Duke has some shine but nobody cares much about FSU,Clemson,Miami,GT etc etc hoops in the NE?But what do I know?I just like traditional NE sports that local folks can get excited about when the conferences made more geographical sense and we didn't need ESPin to tell us who was or wasn't a rival or relevant?btw I wouldn't expect ESPin to get that ACC network up too soon as they already control it ....why would they compete with themselves?

 

[BlueHen]

Or maybe Villanova?Bigger hoops brand in Philly,S.Jersey and MD with an ambitious FB program?Or Seton Hall maybe by just adding a FB program to there BB program for the NJ/NY megalopolis?

Since when does Villanova have an ambitious FB program? They were D-1 (FBS) in the 1970's until they dropped FB all together. They brought FB back, but at the D-1AA (FCS) level. They have thought about moving up to FBS, but so far have not done so. They are a good FCS program, but I wouldn't call them ambitious.

I'm also not so sure that they are the bigger hoops brand in Philly. Philly tends to get behind whichever Big-5 school is doing best at the time, often that is Nova, but Temple and St Joes have also had their moments in the sun.

 

[SouthronCross]

Since when does Villanova have an ambitious FB program? They were D-1 (FBS) in the 1970's until they dropped FB all together. They brought FB back, but at the D-1AA (FCS) level. They have thought about moving up to FBS, but so far have not done so. They are a good FCS program, but I wouldn't call them ambitious.

I'm also not so sure that they are the bigger hoops brand in Philly. Philly tends to get behind whichever Big-5 school is doing best at the time, often that is Nova, but Temple and St Joes have also had their moments in the sun.

The difference is that Villanova has been almost annually competitive in the country's best basketball conference, has gone to multiple Final Fours, and, has won a national championship. No matter than their title was 28 years ago. They have still won it all before.

Neither Temple, nor, St Joe's, have done that. That is why VU is the Philly area's biggest hoops brand. Just my .02 worth.

 

[Fishy]

The difference is that Villanova has been almost annually competitive in the country's best basketball conference, has gone to multiple Final Fours, and, has won a national championship. No matter than their title was 28 years ago. They have still won it all before.

Neither Temple, nor, St Joe's, have done that. That is why VU is the Philly area's biggest hoops brand. Just my .02 worth.

Let us assure you that wanton success in basketball counts for roughly nothing.

You can trust us on that one.

 

[SouthronCross]

I don't think either Philadelphia or New York cares much about college football unless it is Notre Dame in the case of New York. Both towns are College Basketball towns when it comes to college athletics. I do see Temple as a great opportunity to bring ACC basketball to the Philadelphia market, which I do believe would get a buzz about ACC basketball with regular visits from all the ACC schools plus Syracuse and hopefully Connecticut. Temple basketball is competitive enough to win its share of these games. I do prefer the addition of UConn before Temple a I've stated here many times. I'm really comparing Temple more with Cincinnati as some keep suggesting Cincinnati.

Pennsylvania is a football state. Just as much so as either Florida, Georgia, or Ohio. Philadelphia itself might be more basketball crazy, but, PSU is for sure a big deal there. The B1G's issue in Philadelphia is about Comcast, not PSU itself.

I do see your point about Temple, were they a member of the ACC. The Philadelphia DMA would indeed help make up for losing Maryland, but, I couldn't see much of anybody within the ACC being all that excited about bringing them onboard. Basketball aside, what else could the rest of the ACC get excited about?

If the likes of FSU and CU voted down UConn, with its better hoops and Olympic sports, and, access to an even bigger market than Philadelphia, IMHO, they wouldn't give Temple a second thought.

Temple has a lot of work to do in football to become a regular bowl team, and they would especially in the ACC. So would UConn or Cincinnati BTW. I don't see a major difference other than Cincinnati has now hired a high profile coach. I don't consider Rutgers as Rutgers is going to the Big Ten and isn't a consideration.

Coming into the ACC, I think Cincinnati would be competitive in football straight away. They've put up a pretty good record the past six seasons, and, looked good out of the gate last week. They've made good head coaching hires as each successive coach has moved on, and now, they have one who is a proven winner at the highest level of the sport. The results speak for themselves.

UConn needed a good new HC after Edsall left. They didn't get one. Theres no energy around the program, from what the guys here, and, fans on their Rivals board, say. They've been to a BCS bowl, less than 10 years after getting into the FBS. Thats pretty danged good. The state of Connecticut produces decent HSFB talent, and, they need somebody to keep it at home. Had they continued on with what Edsall had gotten them to, they'd be in the ACC right now. Theres no disputing that.

If we ever get to 16 teams, they will be that team, IMHO. It just makes too much sense to not lock down New England, and, the northeast, at the same time, by taking them. It locks up the east coast for the ACC, and, effectively locks the B1G out. Win-win. Not to mention what their hoops programs and Olympic sports would do for any future ACCN.

 

[SouthronCross]

Let us assure you that wanton success in basketball counts for roughly nothing.

You can trust us on that one.

Point taken.

 

[BlueHen]

The difference is that Villanova has been almost annually competitive in the country's best basketball conference, has gone to multiple Final Fours, and, has won a national championship. No matter than their title was 28 years ago. They have still won it all before.

Neither Temple, nor, St Joe's, have done that. That is why VU is the Philly area's biggest hoops brand. Just my .02 worth.

That is a good point. I agree that from a national standpoint Villanova is the bigger brand. I was thinking more along the lines of what the typical Philadelphian on the street would say if you asked them who the favorite CBB team. My guess would be that whoever was having the most success at the time would get the most votes, but that is just a guess (and may not be all that relevant anyway).

 

[upstater]

That is a good point. I agree that from a national standpoint Villanova is the bigger brand. I was thinking more along the lines of what the typical Philadelphian on the street would say if you asked them who the favorite CBB team. My guess would be that whoever was having the most success at the time would get the most votes, but that is just a guess (and may not be all that relevant anyway).

Temple really adds nothing right now that a big conference would want BUT the school has come a very long way largely because of demographic changes. It's in Philly. People like to be in Philly. It's a state school with a lot of students. It is building dorms in what used to be one of the roughest Philly neighborhoods as late as the 1990s. Its academic reputation is rising. The state of PA does not support its colleges and universities well, and for such a big state to have only 2 such well regarded universities when it needs many more creates a huge bottleneck that Temple can exploit. It's going to be a slow slog but 30 years from now, Temple will be a survivor. A very good place. It's not that far behind Cincy either.

If the conference game wouldn't so rigged, you'd sell stock in many P5 schools and buy stock in Temple.

That being said, it is rigged, and reality is against them. It's against UConn too!

 

[btstimpy]

Temple really adds nothing right now that a big conference would want BUT the school has come a very long way largely because of demographic changes. It's in Philly. People like to be in Philly. It's a state school with a lot of students. It is building dorms in what used to be one of the roughest Philly neighborhoods as late as the 1990s. Its academic reputation is rising. The state of PA does not support its colleges and universities well, and for such a big state to have only 2 such well regarded universities when it needs many more creates a huge bottleneck that Temple can exploit. It's going to be a slow slog but 30 years from now, Temple will be a survivor. A very good place. It's not that far behind Cincy either.

If the conference game wouldn't so rigged, you'd sell stock in many P5 schools and buy stock in Temple.

That being said, it is rigged, and reality is against them. It's against UConn too!

This is my point. I agree with this totally. Unfortunately, it is a tough sell to other members of the ACC because of the performance of Temple football in the 90s, which was poor. That was the transformative years when the major Eastern Independents were moving their football into conferences and with their basketball and Olympic sports in the Atlantic 10, Temple's football program was without much direction. They have everything together now in the AAC, so we'll see what they can do. I see potential in a large eastern market that could help the ACC. It's up to Temple to show everyone what they can do while in the AAC.

I'm also old school, and I see Cincinnati as another Midwestern school. The ACC is the Eastern Conference. Louisville and Notre Dame are great additions. I'm happy with them, but they are enough from the Midwest Connecticut and Temple are Eastern, so I prefer that direction. I'd even prefer figuring out a way to invite West Virginia than to load up with more in the Midwest. I don't have anything against the Midwest, but the Big Ten and the Mid American Conference are the Midwestern leagues. They should have the Midwestern teams.

 

[woomba]

ACC is a Southern conference with the old Big East bolted on. There is nothing in common between a school in the Carolinas and any state north of the Mason-Dixon line.

 

[btstimpy]

Coming into the ACC, I think Cincinnati would be competitive in football straight away. They've put up a pretty good record the past six seasons, and, looked good out of the gate last week. They've made good head coaching hires as each successive coach has moved on, and now, they have one who is a proven winner at the highest level of the sport. The results speak for themselves.

UConn needed a good new HC after Edsall left. They didn't get one. Theres no energy around the program, from what the guys here, and, fans on their Rivals board, say. They've been to a BCS bowl, less than 10 years after getting into the FBS. Thats pretty danged good. The state of Connecticut produces decent HSFB talent, and, they need somebody to keep it at home. Had they continued on with what Edsall had gotten them to, they'd be in the ACC right now. Theres no disputing that.

If we ever get to 16 teams, they will be that team, IMHO. It just makes too much sense to not lock down New England, and, the northeast, at the same time, by taking them. It locks up the east coast for the ACC, and, effectively locks the B1G out. Win-win. Not to mention what their hoops programs and Olympic sports would do for any future ACCN.

I get the Penn State and Comcast issue in Philadelphia for the Big Ten. What I'm concerned with is the ACC in Philadelphia, and I'd prefer for the ACC to have presence in Philadelphia than in Cincinnati. That's all. I remember how awful Georgia Tech basketball was when they were invited. At that time the ACC cared more about basketball, but Georgia Tech was invited because the league wanted to be in Atlanta. I see the Temple/Philly idea as the same.

Connecticut should be choice 16 for sure. UConn runs a very successful athletic department overall, is a power in basketball, and is competitive in football. Connecticut both solidifies New England and enhances presence in New York for the ACC. The school is similar in size, demographic, and academic mission with many members of the ACC, especially the public schools. There is also much familiarity and rivalry with all the former Big East members. I still, however toy with the idea of going to 20 and what options are out there to enhance the league.

 

[btstimpy]

ACC is a Southern conference with the old Big East bolted on. There is nothing in common between a school in the Carolinas and any state north of the Mason-Dixon line.

North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, Miami, and Georgia Tech are all full of students from the northeast, and each has many alumni in the northeast. I would agree that this is not really the case with Clemson, NC State, and Florida State. One of the reasons Boston College joined the ACC in 2003 was to recruit students from the southeastern Atlantic states. I know that Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame all want to do this as well because demographically it makes the most sense.

As far as the ACC having the old Big East bolted on, Miami and Virginia Tech are assimilated very well. Boston College has had more of a challenge, but with Notre Dame, Pitt, and Syracuse, it will help them. Connecticut would help even more. I can't speak for Connecticut, but I would think the UConn fans would enjoy all the good basketball competition that would involve rejoining Syracuse and picking up the Carolina Schools to play.

 

[woomba]

North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Duke, Miami, and Georgia Tech are all full of students from the northeast, and each has many alumni in the northeast. I would agree that this is not really the case with Clemson, NC State, and Florida State. One of the reasons Boston College joined the ACC in 2003 was to recruit students from the southeastern Atlantic states. I know that Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame all want to do this as well because demographically it makes the most sense.

As far as the ACC having the old Big East bolted on, Miami and Virginia Tech are assimilated very well. Boston College has had more of a challenge, but with Notre Dame, Pitt, and Syracuse, it will help them. Connecticut would help even more. I can't speak for Connecticut, but I would think the UConn fans would enjoy all the good basketball competition that would involve rejoining Syracuse and picking up the Carolina Schools to play.

You can make the same argument for the Midwest schools. In fact, I would argue the Northern schools in the ACC are much more out of place than the Eastern Big Ten schools in terms of cultural compatibility.

I really don't see how you can fashion yourself as a "old school" ACC guy when the original ACC teams don't even make up the majority of the conference anymore.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

You can make the same argument for the Midwest schools. In fact, I would argue the Northern schools in the ACC are much more out of place than the Eastern Big Ten schools in terms of cultural compatibility.

I really don't see how you can fashion yourself as a "old school" ACC guy when the original ACC teams don't even make up the majority of the conference anymore.

Connecticut has more in common with the Eastern Midwest than than the do with Northern New England.
Both heavily industrialized areas in transition.
Those areas were amongst the first targets of Conn settlers.
Plus both areas were targets of the great European migration.
Southern Ohio and Southern Indiana are the exception.
That resulted in a diverse populations of simalar ethnic groups.

The South until recently was homogeneous.

BC in the land were there are 9 choices of Babtists is kind of funny.

 

[upstater]

Connecticut has more in common with the Eastern Midwest than than the do with Northern New England.
Both heavily industrialized areas in transition.
Those areas were amongst the first targets of Conn settlers.
Plus both areas were targets of the great European migration.
Southern Ohio and Southern Indiana are the exception.
That resulted in a diverse populations of simalar ethnic groups.

The South until recently was homogeneous.

BC in the land were there are 9 choices of Babtists is kind of funny.

Are you referring to Vermont, NH and Maine?

I have to say many towns and cities in those states feel like much of Conn. to me. Nothing the midwest ever felt like that. People are totally different too. Many Anglos and Italians in Conn., Catholics too. Midwest is heavy, heavy, heavy on Germans, some Dutch.

 

[SouthronCross]

I get the Penn State and Comcast issue in Philadelphia for the Big Ten. What I'm concerned with is the ACC in Philadelphia, and I'd prefer for the ACC to have presence in Philadelphia than in Cincinnati. That's all. I remember how awful Georgia Tech basketball was when they were invited. At that time the ACC cared more about basketball, but Georgia Tech was invited because the league wanted to be in Atlanta. I see the Temple/Philly idea as the same.

Connecticut should be choice 16 for sure. UConn runs a very successful athletic department overall, is a power in basketball, and is competitive in football. Connecticut both solidifies New England and enhances presence in New York for the ACC. The school is similar in size, demographic, and academic mission with many members of the ACC, especially the public schools. There is also much familiarity and rivalry with all the former Big East members. I still, however toy with the idea of going to 20 and what options are out there to enhance the league.

I totally understand the Atlanta-Philadelphia comparisons. And, why you'd want an ACC presense there. But, where Ga Tech had a tremendous history in football, Temple's is equally as barren. And, that is one reason they'd never get a second glance from the ACC.

 

[billybud]

Connecticut has more in common with the Eastern Midwest than than the do with Northern New England.
Both heavily industrialized areas in transition.
Those areas were amongst the first targets of Conn settlers.
Plus both areas were targets of the great European migration.
Southern Ohio and Southern Indiana are the exception.
That resulted in a diverse populations of simalar ethnic groups.

The South until recently was homogeneous.

BC in the land were there are 9 choices of Babtists is kind of funny.

The south wasn't that homogenous....we had, of course, the Scots-Irish migrations, the English migrations, some areas (my home town) had spanish, black and indian forming creole cultures, lower Alabama (Mobile) through Shreveport have a french acadian influence. We just weren't middle european (lithuanian, hungarian, polish) nor italian like the midwest was.

Louisianna had their Cote de Allemand where alsation farmers immigrated and germans settled throughout the south from Virginia to Texas....

 

[btstimpy]

You can make the same argument for the Midwest schools. In fact, I would argue the Northern schools in the ACC are much more out of place than the Eastern Big Ten schools in terms of cultural compatibility.

I really don't see how you can fashion yourself as a "old school" ACC guy when the original ACC teams don't even make up the majority of the conference anymore.

You can argue it sure. All I have to go on is half the Penn State fan base who think they are out of place along with Maryland and Rutgers who have not had the experience yet. The jury is out on that one, but there will be reference points in about 5 years. If it were 1965, I'd agree with the out of place. In 2013 with all the migration in the US, I don't agree.

For the eastern schools it is a choice of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Illinois VS Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Ohio if Cincinnati joins the ACC would be overlapping. With the demographic trends in the United States population and growth areas, I don't think it's a tough choice, rust vs growth. But Maryland did leave growth for rust, so some may see it as a benefit to head to the midwest.

 

[woomba]

Some? You guys needed a GOR to keep the entire conference from falling apart and had to let in a partial member in on all your bowls. Nothing the ACC has done the past few years in alignment screams strength.

 

[upstater]

You can argue it sure. All I have to go on is half the Penn State fan base who think they are out of place along with Maryland and Rutgers who have not had the experience yet. The jury is out on that one, but there will be reference points in about 5 years. If it were 1965, I'd agree with the out of place. In 2013 with all the migration in the US, I don't agree.

For the eastern schools it is a choice of Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Illinois VS Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina. Pennsylvania, Indiana, and Ohio if Cincinnati joins the ACC would be overlapping. With the demographic trends in the United States population and growth areas, I don't think it's a tough choice, rust vs growth. But Maryland did leave growth for rust, so some may see it as a benefit to head to the midwest.

Given UConn's experience, we're likely to think the Civil War played a part in UConn being left behind.

 

[NickyNewark]

Since when does Villanova have an ambitious FB program? They were D-1 (FBS) in the 1970's until they dropped FB all together. They brought FB back, but at the D-1AA (FCS) level. They have thought about moving up to FBS, but so far have not done so. They are a good FCS program, but I wouldn't call them ambitious.

I'm also not so sure that they are the bigger hoops brand in Philly. Philly tends to get behind whichever Big-5 school is doing best at the time, often that is Nova, but Temple and St Joes have also had their moments in the sun.

Not ambitious?Why do you think the BE fell apart besides poaching?Villanova made a big push(though in vain)to get D1 status among the BE but were voted down 3 times that Im aware of!The catholic schools thought it was due to animosity but the truth is their too far behind to do anything but water down a conference that was already under fire!I can still hear the ESPin talking heads joking about it on there thrones a couple years ago just before the split!If someone would accept Villanova they'd make the jump quicker than Mizzou woulda joined the B1G if accepted a few years ago!Seems to me every time the BE wanted/needed to add schools Villanova tried to push their way in but the votes weren't there!

 

[BlueHen]

Not ambitious?Why do you think the BE fell apart besides poaching?Villanova made a big push(though in vain)to get D1 status among the BE but were voted down 3 times that Im aware of!The catholic schools thought it was due to animosity but the truth is their too far behind to do anything but water down a conference that was already under fire!I can still hear the ESPin talking heads joking about it on there thrones a couple years ago just before the split!If someone would accept Villanova they'd make the jump quicker than Mizzou woulda joined the B1G if accepted a few years ago!

If Villanova was ambitious about moving up, they would have done so. The Villanova board of trustees has never voted one way or the other on moving up. There have been feasibility studies, and talk, but that is all, that does not make them ambitious.