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editor of FSU board on FSU to Big 12

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nelsonmuntz said:
I think Clemson/FSU for UConn/Rutgers still gets the ACC close to $20MM and might even leave the Tier 3's. I think more departures are anticipated.
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agree here, its 3 or 4 acc schools are moving asap. thats why lville is ready to go and s'ing d to get out. they know the b12 has 4 or 5 teams on the hook and are hoping only 3 pull the trigger so they get the 4th slot.

i read off wvu they were linking to a clemson guy who posts on a pay site. i guess they have been talking about him for a while now and hes been right on the mark with things the past month as far as tv $$ and also the acc stuff. he posted today i guess that fsu/clem/miami were gone for sure and that gt was 50/50. if gt doesn't go then the b12 will go after md before settling for lville. he also says that for 16 one day there is a reason pitt now filed to sue the nbe. he thinks that now pitt realizes how screwed the acc is and they want out for 2013 so that they can get spot 15 or 16 in the b12.

lets say that this is all true for a sec and the b12 looks like this in 2015

east division- wvu/pitt/lville/fsu/miami/gt/clem/tcu

now the acc would be the bacco 4 plus md/uva/vt/cuse/bc

considering the sec and big have not acted yet, how the heck do u join that? i mean i think in this case they attempt to add uconn/ruty/temple to get to 12. then maybe usf/ucf for 14 and to get back in fl, but thats a iffy add for such stuck up schools from a academics standpoint. but i mean the sec and b12 are not going to let the other have more teams for long(they want = namm payouts and = #'s chance wise to make bcs/ncss things). the sec will add 2 of 3 spots. a 2nd texas market, va or nc. that leaves the acc on notice. many say vt/ncst are the top 2 picks becuase that rebalances east in west in the sec. the b10 wants big publics, thats no secret and a couple east coast ones would do the trick. it would officially kill the acc and force nd to join as it would have no other possible home. lets be honest the b12 checked 1 last time before lville was 16, it was never happening. the question is for the last 3 spots(nd is #13 lets say), who of unc/uva/md/ruty/uconn are left out. those 2 are screwed and have to wait until the next contract 10 years from now.

thats what i'm worried about, so why do the dance and no get the invite when instead the only top 15 heck top 30 school in the country thats not in a top 4 is bsu and they can be in your league right now if you just stay. uh isn't far off and usf/ucf i'm sure will be in tune with uconn/ruty. just me.
 
The PAC and BiG already announced their inbreeding plan to play a full slate of 12 games against each other and matchup in the Rose Bowl and are looking at 9 game conference schedules.

The big fear is the B12 going to 14 teams and matchng up with the SEC for 14 games and adopting 9 game schedules and playing in a Jerry Jones Bowl as a counterpart to the Rose Bowl.

The greatest fear: the Big 4 can scrap the conference championship games and advance 2 teams each (the conference divisional winners) into an 8 team playoff (a 7-bowl series) and rake in mountains of greenbacks.

Teams left out of that cluster frak simply won't matter. Boise versus Notre Dame might draw some viewers Holiday Week but it simply would not matter. Pitt V Lousville? UConn v. Miami? BYU v. Maryland? Forget it. Those 52 teams in the Big 4 would rule Div I which is what they want.

They are on the cusp of this IMHO. All it takes is a little chutzpah. Likely they set it up by teh B12 adding 2 teams now and going for the 4 team playoff. By 2020 the B14 will exist and inbreeding will procede.
 
i just don't see things like that happening until they each get to 16. i mean the b10 who is all holy in there ways, created a new logo when they went to 12 but the logo has a 16 in it. thats telling imo. but yes i fear that 8 team big 4 only bids also. that why i want uconn in th next best possible conf if we get left out to fight the power. bsu for example is someone we need to be with, same with byu. that 5th best league will be the one to push the edge, no one else can compete at all with the big 4. we need to be in the best possible spot so one day when they goto 18 and 9 team divisions, we are picked. i fear that if we join a private school league of teams that are collecting paychecks and not striving to be great, our program may not be able to explode on the scene.
 
I find the risk of the "Big 4" conferences splitting from the rest is low. My reasons:

1) The BCS is an anti-trust loser as is, which is why it keeps upping the payout and access for non-BCS schools every time the non-BCS rattle their sabers. Permanently splitting off would result in an almost instantaneous lawsuit from the other schools. The non-BCS would literally have nothing to lose.

2) I have never seen a sports league split and be successful. Both Indy Cars and boxing are the only major ones that have tried, and both brands were badly damaged by doing so. In fact, no major sports league has even contracted. I don't see "shrinking the market" being a good strategy for any league.

3) The biggest risk for the majors is that their athletic departments get treated like businesses. The money is getting big enough and their behavior is getting "business like" enough that the risk of the IRS ruling they are no longer non-profits at some point is very real. Doing something as aggressive as splitting off from the other colleges would create a political firestorm and bring unwanted attention on those schools.

4) There are too many losers in such a scenario, which would bring unimaginable political pressure not to do it. Even within states, you would have open warfare between different constituencies. Take Ohio State or Michigan for example, both of which have several state schools playing D1A ball that would be badly hurt by a split.
 
Yep, the big 4 conferences splitting away would trigger an anti trust lawsuit that would for ever change the landscape of college sports. Point #3 is interesting too.
 
The ACC is in a bad spot. I read a bleacher report blog, and I know it's only bleacher report, but he summed up the situation pretty succinctly. He basically said if a 10 team Big 12 is more valuable than a 14 team ACC then the ACC is in for a world of pain. What a 12, 14, or 16 team Big 12 would be worth compared to what the ACC is locked into for the next 15 years is so disparate that it is comical and hard to imagine the ACC surviving. It may not happen this summer but 2 or 3 years in, watching the Big 4 get paid major cash, will cause the break-up of the ACC. The ACC thought that the Big 12 was so unstable that they would sneak their way into the Big 4, but with the Big 12 signing a 13 year grant of rights and getting a bigger contract, that just will not happen in time for the ACC to make it into the big boys club.
 
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I still wonder how the Pac 12 got such a great deal. Neither their football nor their basketball is particularly compelling.
 
Well if the ACC is going to die a slow death, then Herbst better do her Princess Leia impersonation for #BegHarder: "Help me Jim Delaney, you're my only hope."
 
The Funster said:
I still wonder how the Pac 12 got such a great deal. Neither their football nor their basketball is particularly compelling.
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I know plenty of complete freaking idiots that sold a "company", which in most cases was little more than a website, in 1999 and are worth tens of millions today. Timing is everything.
 
The Funster said:
I still wonder how the Pac 12 got such a great deal. Neither their football nor their basketball is particularly compelling.
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Not to mention the PAC 12 network that's on the way (for all their third tier needs).
 
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HuskyfanDan said:
fsu asking for swafford to step down?!?!?!?

Cory Fravel‏ @ CoryFravel
Follow
FSU to ask for Swofford's resignation @ IngramSmith @ louciaccia @ TomahawkNationhttp://www.tomahawknation.com/ # chessnotcheckers
G swaim is saying a b12 buyout move is already being worked out just like wvus 10mil split with the league.
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Here is an article that asks "Will Florida State Demand Swofford's Resignation At ACC Meetings?"

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2012/...meetings-swofford-resign-big-12-expansion-xii

One point made takes a swipe @ BCU - "FSU is by far the top property in the ACC, and it doesn't believe it is fair for freeloading schools like BC, Wake and others to earn the same amount from the awful TV contract that just gets worse by the minute. Throw in a perceived bias from the league office against the 'Noles and in favor of UNC and the triangle, and things have the potential to get hot over the next few days."
 
fsu may try to wreck the acc before leaving. just for kicks. hell if i was fsu and i made my mind up that the acc screwed us and were going to move, wouldn't u kick some stuff over on the way out?
 
Some of this is football fan psychosis.
 
Either a) FSU knows UNC and Duke will tell them to buzz off and is using this as a pretext to leave, or b) FSU is trying to figure out a way to stay in the ACC. I think it is A, but we will know soon enough.
 
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The BE has a huge opportunity here which I'm wondering why isn't mentioned...
Uconn/RU/Temple/Boise/SDSU/Memphis/UCF/USF/Houston/Navy/Cincy/SMU/UofL expected to get roughly $10-$15M/year. What does adding the 3 most valued FB schools in the ACC provide? FSU/Clemson/VT...
That 16 league team would have to be north of $20M, especially with the BB programs and multiple bidders, and this wouldn't include 3rd tier... Suppose FSU goes to the Big12 with Clemson. then VT, Virginia, and GT...
If money is everything, and it usually is, the BE could be in a position to work out scenarios and dangle some big $'s in front of some ACC schools that need the dough and are sick of being second class citizens to tobacco road. $5-$10M/year more might be enough for a couple ACC schools, especially if they re already on the outside looking in. And, if a school like FSU would consider the Big12 for money, then they would consider teh Big East as well.
 
The Big East is not really a player in any of this. The only thing for the Big East to do is sit tight and see what is left of the ACC after this is done. This will get sorted out in the next month or two.
 
Marty Jackson said:
The BE has a huge opportunity here which I'm wondering why isn't mentioned...
Uconn/RU/Temple/Boise/SDSU/Memphis/UCF/USF/Houston/Navy/Cincy/SMU/UofL expected to get roughly $10-$15M/year. What does adding the 3 most valued FB schools in the ACC provide? FSU/Clemson/VT...
That 16 league team would have to be north of $20M, especially with the BB programs and multiple bidders, and this wouldn't include 3rd tier... Suppose FSU goes to the Big12 with Clemson. then VT, Virginia, and GT...
If money is everything, and it usually is, the BE could be in a position to work out scenarios and dangle some big $'s in front of some ACC schools that need the dough and are sick of being second class citizens to tobacco road. $5-$10M/year more might be enough for a couple ACC schools, especially if they re already on the outside looking in. And, if a school like FSU would consider the Big12 for money, then they would consider teh Big East as well.
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every acc public can find a home between the sec/b12/b10. whats left will be the schools not worth much. we have a chance to stand tall with the nbe and screw the couple schools that have tried to screw us for years now. if we stand together and not budge, we can kill off those fball programs and make duke/cuse/bc and crew bball schools 10 years from now. that would be huge for us. HUGE! we would be the big dog in the northeast and have regional rivals one day down the road like ruty/psu/md/uva/wvu among others...

if the pitt stuff is true and there now looking at the b12, then they know exactly how its going to shake out and there going to try to get away from duke/wake/cuse/bc before it happens. thats telling. no one wants to be stuck with those couple madonas, they will slowly die together. i hope susan and warde are paying attentiona and i think they are. the nbe will be the 5th best league, the acc will die and we will one day get a invite in the next round of tv stuff. if we get one this round, then its just amazing how far we have come in such little time.
 
I really don't think FSU is going anywhere and I think what we're seeing here is a potential breaking point in this realignment madness. On the one hand you have boosters, a coach and the BOT chair, bemoaning the deal and on the other you ahve the President make it pretty clear where the university stands.

While college football drives the athletic bus it doesn't drive the entire bus, it's just another passenger. Athletic revenues are dwarfed by the other revenues available to most universities. With many athletic programs are losing money and perhaps the most lucrative (Texas) crowing about putting 5M back into the university at some point the academics are going to put their foot down. Shifting alliances solely based on athletics is putting the cart before the horse and the foot may just be the FSU President.

This realignment thing sucks. Universities are jumping around for a few million more when those millions are peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I hope some of the nonsense will get squelched and FSU is as good a time as any.
 
What's going on here is crazy, although in reading this thread I get the feeling most people have gone so far over the top that it's comical. The comments from some high ranking FSU are interesting to say the least, but they're also riddled with inaccuracies (such as the Tier 3 comments), that's its hard to give them a ton of weight. The biggest "news" seems to be that people don't like the back-loaded ACC contract. But anyone in the know would have assumed the contract was backloaded to begin with. Here i an estimate of actual numbers for 2012-2013 (this coming season) per conference:

Big Ten - $18.1 million
Pac-12 - $15 million (exlcuding any Tier 3/Pac Network revenue)
SEC - $13.75 million (prior to renegotiation to include A & M/Missouri)
Big XII - $13.6 million (estimate based on extension that is being discussed)
ACC - $10.47 million (this is the old deal, estimating a rise in revenue for the renegotation, it gets to around $12 million or so)

While the ACC still lags, it's basically the same as it was before. All these deals are backloaded to some extent. It's not like it's going to be a financial bonaza for FSU to leave. That does not mean it does not happen, but I get the feeling that some of the comments being put out by FSU people are lacking in actual math.
 
The Funster said:
I really don't think FSU is going anywhere and I think what we're seeing here is a potential breaking point in this realignment madness. On the one hand you have boosters, a coach and the BOT chair, bemoaning the deal and on the other you ahve the President make it pretty clear where the university stands.

While college football drives the athletic bus it doesn't drive the entire bus, it's just another passenger. Athletic revenues are dwarfed by the other revenues available to most universities. With many athletic programs are losing money and perhaps the most lucrative (Texas) crowing about putting 5M back into the university at some point the academics are going to put their foot down. Shifting alliances solely based on athletics is putting the cart before the horse and the foot may just be the FSU President.

This realignment thing sucks. Universities are jumping around for a few million more when those millions are peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I hope some of the nonsense will get squelched and FSU is as good a time as any.
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Schools have lots of revenue streams, but how much of that could easily grow an extra $5-$10M annually for doing nothing. That's a 100% gain for simply wiping out Big East and changing it to Big12.
School presidents aren't stupid. There's a reason why they are doing this. And locking in an additional $5-$10M/year for the next 15 years isn't peanuts.
You also have to factor in that branding plays a huge role in this which is why schools are cautious about getting lumped in with particular schools in a give conference (ie WVU to the ACC)... In almost every sense WVU would have been a prime target, but the ACC schools felt WVU would have been too big a hit to ACC's brand image to overcome the benefit in athletic $'s.
 
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Jericho said:
What's going on here is crazy, although in reading this thread I get the feeling most people have gone so far over the top that it's comical. The comments from some high ranking FSU are interesting to say the least, but they're also riddled with inaccuracies (such as the Tier 3 comments), that's its hard to give them a ton of weight. The biggest "news" seems to be that people don't like the back-loaded ACC contract. But anyone in the know would have assumed the contract was backloaded to begin with. Here i an estimate of actual numbers for 2012-2013 (this coming season) per conference:

Big Ten - $18.1 million
Pac-12 - $15 million (exlcuding any Tier 3/Pac Network revenue)
SEC - $13.75 million (prior to renegotiation to include A & M/Missouri)
Big XII - $13.6 million (estimate based on extension that is being discussed)
ACC - $10.47 million (this is the old deal, estimating a rise in revenue for the renegotation, it gets to around $12 million or so)

While the ACC still lags, it's basically the same as it was before. All these deals are backloaded to some extent. It's not like it's going to be a financial bonaza for FSU to leave. That does not mean it does not happen, but I get the feeling that some of the comments being put out by FSU people are lacking in actual math.
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depends on what FSU could get for their 3rd tier... It's $12M for ACC deal or $13.6M PLUS 3rd tier revenues which could be huge...
 
Marty Jackson said:
Schools have lots of revenue streams, but how much of that could easily grow an extra $5-$10M annually for doing nothing. That's a 100% gain for simply wiping out Big East and changing it to Big12.
School presidents aren't stupid. There's a reason why they are doing this. And locking in an additional $5-$10M/year for the next 15 years isn't peanuts.
You also have to factor in that branding plays a huge role in this which is why schools are cautious about getting lumped in with particular schools in a give conference (ie WVU to the ACC)... In almost every sense WVU would have been a prime target, but the ACC schools felt WVU would have been too big a hit to ACC's brand image to overcome the benefit in athletic $'s.
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That's kind of contradictory isn't it? What's more important: brand image or dollars? FSU's president is saying they want to stay with ACC for academic principles. Is he saying, "Wellllllll, we're staying for academic reasons but if you throw a few more M/year in the pot we'll go"? I don't think so, or, if that was the case it would be disappointing. And yes 75M over 15 years isn't peanuts but how much in other monies is genrated within that same 15 years? I think the academic portion of FSU is making a stand. I'm curious to see how it plays out
 
nelsonmuntz said:
The Big East is not really a player in any of this. The only thing for the Big East to do is sit tight and see what is left of the ACC after this is done. This will get sorted out in the next month or two.
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OK, so ignoring the 15 million posts complaining about everything the BE hasn't done since 2003, and the other 15 million posts complaining about how marinatto just 'sat tight' and wasn't proactive, of which I'm sure you've contributed, the best scenario for the BE is to sit tight? I don't agree.
We have a golden ticket in being the last conference to negotiate. The Big12 just did it, and they are now 'rumored' to be hunting ACC schools. If the BE isn't a player in this, then they should be. Maybe ESPN wouldn't bite on that because they would still have to swollow an ACC contract that is worthless, but Fox or NBC would certainly pay for that lineup... And what if it were FSU, ND, and VT to join? That would get big boy $'s... On the flip side, it may be enough to get espn to realize that option is out there in which case they may decide to play with the BE.
the difference between Larry Scott and Marinatto is that both might see this opportunity. Larry Scott would leverage it. Marinatto would let it slip by.
let's see what the new leadership does with it.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Sure thing, Baghdad Bob.
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Mr. Muntz, what you've just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on the Internet is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
 
The Funster said:
That's kind of contradictory isn't it? What's more important: brand image or dollars? FSU's president is saying they want to stay with ACC for academic principles. Is he saying, "Wellllllll, we're staying for academic reasons but if you throw a few more M/year in the pot we'll go"? I don't think so, or, if that was the case it would be disappointing. And yes 75M over 15 years isn't peanuts but how much in other monies is genrated within that same 15 years? I think the academic portion of FSU is making a stand. I'm curious to see how it plays out
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brand image = dollars.
 
Marty Jackson said:
OK, so ignoring the 15 million posts complaining about everything the BE hasn't done since 2003, and the other 15 million posts complaining about how marinatto just 'sat tight' and wasn't proactive, of which I'm sure you've contributed, the best scenario for the BE is to sit tight? I don't agree.
We have a golden ticket in being the last conference to negotiate. The Big12 just did it, and they are now 'rumored' to be hunting ACC schools. If the BE isn't a player in this, then they should be. Maybe ESPN wouldn't bite on that because they would still have to swollow an ACC contract that is worthless, but Fox or NBC would certainly pay for that lineup... And what if it were FSU, ND, and VT to join? That would get big boy $'s... On the flip side, it may be enough to get espn to realize that option is out there in which case they may decide to play with the BE.
the difference between Larry Scott and Marinatto is that both might see this opportunity. Larry Scott would leverage it. Marinatto would let it slip by.
let's see what the new leadership does with it.
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What exactly does the Big East have to offer any ACC school? They cannot offer more money. They cannot offer more stability. They cannot offer better geography. They cannot offer guaranteed Bowl tie-ins (even the ACC has the Orange Bowl). They cannot offer better academics. Why exactly would anyone leave the ACC for the Big East?
 
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