editor of FSU board on FSU to Big 12 | Page 7 | The Boneyard

editor of FSU board on FSU to Big 12

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nelsonmuntz said:
This coming from the guy that provided some chucklehead link a week ago that you claim proved that FSU would not go to the Big 12. Seems like the news cycle has moved against you.
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...posted by the King of chucklehead links...
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Even Ithaca Matt has given up the ghost on arguing that things are peachy in the ACC. FSU is publicly puking all over this TV contract. Can you remember the last time a school publicly shredded their conference like this over a TV deal? I can't, and the Big East has signed some crappy TV deals.

Your league is coming apart literally as we speak, and you are making post after post telling us how wonderful it is. It's a free country, so post what you want, but you do sound ridiculous defending the ACC.
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Why are you making up arguments? Did I say things ever were "peachy"? Apparently not joining in your world view that all the ACC is falling apart means I'm supporting the ACC and it's "my" league.

I still have a hard time buying the logic of FSU leaving. I'm not saying it won't happen, but financially isn't not some huge boon. FSU does something like $900,000,000 in revenues each year and this my net them $5 million more (could be higher, but this is a reasonable estimate) per year (not accounting for any potential offsets of increased travel, etc...). Even if FSU wants to go the Big 12 route, I have an even harder time seeing anyone else make the jump. I've posted several times how I've always felt FSU was the least comitted member of the ACC. But I don't see anyone else both dissatisfied with the ACC and switching conferences to save a few million.

But evern going through all that, even if the ACC lost two schools, they're still fine. I don't get this "doom and gloom" of the ACC. The Big 10 moves at a glacial pace and won't do anything without Notre Dame. Is there any real reason for the SEC to add even more schools unless they simply want to steal FSU from the Big 12?

Last time Colorado and Nebraska left and everyone starting envisioning their 16 team superconferences. And in the end, hardly anyone moved. The blogosphere gets giddy with the thought of mass movement, when in the end the movement is pretty minimal.

I don't share your crazy extremist thoughts, so apparently that labels me delusional. But I consider it just rational and reasonable.
 
Jericho said:
Why are you making up arguments? Did I say things ever were "peachy"? Apparently not joining in your world view that all the ACC is falling apart means I'm supporting the ACC and it's "my" league.

I still have a hard time buying the logic of FSU leaving. I'm not saying it won't happen, but financially isn't not some huge boon. FSU does something like $900,000,000 in revenues each year and this my net them $5 million more (could be higher, but this is a reasonable estimate) per year (not accounting for any potential offsets of increased travel, etc...). Even if FSU wants to go the Big 12 route, I have an even harder time seeing anyone else make the jump. I've posted several times how I've always felt FSU was the least comitted member of the ACC. But I don't see anyone else both dissatisfied with the ACC and switching conferences to save a few million.

But evern going through all that, even if the ACC lost two schools, they're still fine. I don't get this "doom and gloom" of the ACC. The Big 10 moves at a glacial pace and won't do anything without Notre Dame. Is there any real reason for the SEC to add even more schools unless they simply want to steal FSU from the Big 12?

Last time Colorado and Nebraska left and everyone starting envisioning their 16 team superconferences. And in the end, hardly anyone moved. The blogosphere gets giddy with the thought of mass movement, when in the end the movement is pretty minimal.

I don't share your crazy extremist thoughts, so apparently that labels me delusional. But I consider it just rational and reasonable.
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Likewise, I have a hard time believing that Florida State REALLY wants to play in the Big 12, especially when you consider it from an all-sports perspective. What they really really want, IMO, is to be invited into the SEC. That's the only league that matters to them.
 
I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.
 
Let's say the BE contract is $12M... in the discussions that are going to be happening, why wouldn't the BE leadership try to determine what incremental value particular schools might bring.
So yes, if the BE can net $17M per school by adding FSU et al, then I don't think they would change. But, let's say the BE learned that adding certain schools might bring $22M (Pitt/Syr brought $2M in a closed negotiation), then yes I think they might approach some of those schools or have the language written in the contract. I think it's very likely that the BE understands what BYU or Air Force would bring. Why not figure out what ND or other 'in-play' schools would bring. Clearly, there is dissention in the ACC .
As for academics, I don't see a big difference between the ACC and BE. Both have very strong academics mixed with some average academics. Please tell me which ACC university is more prestigious than the Naval Academy. Travel costs are irrelevant if the money is there as WVU has proven. And lastly, FSU would join the Big 12 but not the BE because schools have fled? Do nebraska, Mizzou, A&M, and Colorado ring a bell?
 
Jericho said:
Is that $17 million based on personal opinion or any actual fact? Even hard core insiders seem to be estimating a New Big East contract at somewhere around $10-12 million per school. But even assuming you are right, any contract will have typical escalator clauses. So even if the Big east signed a deal worth $17 million per year on average, it will be lower than that from the get go.

And that Tier 3 myth has been debunked time and time again.

It seems the best you are offering is that the Big East might, in an abolute dream scenario, get a contract that's reasonably comparable to the ACC and might actually net a school up to $1 million dollars more. That is if they toss away all their history, join a conference every other school has fled, downgrade their academics and liekly increase travel costs. Who again is signing up for that?
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also, please explain the 3rd party 'myth' being debunked... They don't exist or the difference between the Big12 and ACC contract isn't 3rd party?
 
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The ACC will retain rights to an extra football game (likely against an FCS team) and a handfull of basketball games against the teams that are roughly on par with Quinipiac.

That's the list. Florida State retains the rights to their baseball games and olympic sports, radio, stadium advertsising, etc. I am sure that one football game is enough to start a network though.
 
docsu said:
I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.
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It may not be rational. Many of us simply hate the ACC and always will. Even if we get in one day.
 
Marty Jackson said:
As for academics, I don't see a big difference between the ACC and BE. Both have very strong academics mixed with some average academics. Please tell me which ACC university is more prestigious than the Naval Academy. Travel costs are irrelevant if the money is there as WVU has proven. And lastly, FSU would join the Big 12 but not the BE because schools have fled? Do nebraska, Mizzou, A&M, and Colorado ring a bell?
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Sorry, it's no contest for academics with the NNBE vs. ACC. UNC, UVA, Maryland, Duke, Georgia Tech and even FSU all easily surpass Boise, Houston, UCF, even the 2003 additions of USF, Louisville and Cincy. Not even close.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Anti-trust dogs are coming, if it's that few teams who control the national championship. sc
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There are those who think the anti-trust claim is bogus. Other conferences are free to play for a Championship of their own and recruit and sell to TV networks and the Internet. If the AP declares a National Champion is irrelevant. If a Conference is legal and playing games each other during the regular season is legal then why is a post season tourney restricted to 4 Conferences illegal?
 
Your original post was that schools were jumping ship for peanuts. I countered that the $'s involved are significant and that which schools are affiliated with certain conferences also plays into a decision to 'jump', ie branding. In the end, I'm not sure FSU can value their inclusion in the ACC at $5-$10M annually.
 
businesslawyer said:
We don't have a golden ticket because we're carrying too much baggage. FSU isn't happy with Wake and BC -- you think they're racing over to partner with SMU, Houston, Memphis and Temple?
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SMU/Houston/Boise are fb schools... If FSU is lumped with ND and VT, yes I think they would.
 
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junglehusky said:
Sorry, it's no contest for academics with the NNBE vs. ACC. UNC, UVA, Maryland, Duke, Georgia Tech and even FSU all easily surpass Boise, Houston, UCF, even the 2003 additions of USF, Louisville and Cincy. Not even close.
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If you list their top schools against our bottom sure it looks lopsided. The BE has Navy. Which ACC school tops that? SMU? Uconn and Rutgers are two of the top ranked public universities. ND, St. John's, and Georgetown are quite solid as well.
I give the ACC the edge, but I don't think it's that big a gap.
 
Marty Jackson said:
If you list their top schools against our bottom sure it looks lopsided. The BE has Navy. Which ACC school tops that? SMU? Uconn and Rutgers are two of the top ranked public universities. ND, St. John's, and Georgetown are quite solid as well.
I give the ACC the edge, but I don't think it's that big a gap.
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We had a long thread on this back in the fall, skip down a to page 5 to see the rankings.

Reiterating a main point: universities want to associate with peer institutions that share similar academic missions. UConn has been on a 20+ year course (UConn 2000, 21st Century UConn) to become one of the top public universities, its model was schools like UNC and Wisconsin. We've had some success but obviously want to keep moving up. Navy is obviously a very good school but it has a completely different academic mission. It has a different makeup of its student body. SMU might be an OK school but it has a religious mission. There's very little overlap in the type of student who applies to SMU, whereas the type of student who applies to UNC and UVA are exactly the kind of applicant that UConn wants to attract. This is why Herbst was/is #BeggingHarder.
 
Some of these campuses have academic unions and organizations driven by Ken Krayeske's brothers and sisters and they carry some real clout. They hate the whole athletics thing and gripe constantly about the money going into athletic facilities.

FSU might be one of the few where these activists have clout
 
huskymedic said:
Here is an article that asks "Will Florida State Demand Swofford's Resignation At ACC Meetings?"

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2012/...meetings-swofford-resign-big-12-expansion-xii

One point made takes a swipe @ BCU - "FSU is by far the top property in the ACC, and it doesn't believe it is fair for freeloading schools like BC, Wake and others to earn the same amount from the awful TV contract that just gets worse by the minute. Throw in a perceived bias from the league office against the 'Noles and in favor of UNC and the triangle, and things have the potential to get hot over the next few days."
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Also, viewing the three alternatives, two include "botched expansion." The addition of Pitt and "Cuse was viewed less than favorably by FSU- they felt that neither team added value. Perhaps, FSU saw them as just more"freeloaders" like BCU and Wake!
Since Swofford has a reported 4 more years on his contract, it is almost inconceivable that he gets canned. Will that be "cause" for a FSU split? I don't know but it sure is getting interesting!
 
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docsu said:
I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.
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Misery loves company, and UConn is about to get some company.
 
RS9999X said:
Some of these campuses have academic unions and organizations driven by Ken Krayeske's brothers and sisters and they carry some real clout. They hate the whole athletics thing and gripe constantly about the money going into athletic facilities.

FSU might be one of the few where these activists have clout
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There are the Krayeskes, and there are the (wannabe) T Boone Pickenses of the world as well. I imagine FSU has more of latter..

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2
 
Marty Jackson said:
If you list their top schools against our bottom sure it looks lopsided. The BE has Navy. Which ACC school tops that? SMU? Uconn and Rutgers are two of the top ranked public universities. ND, St. John's, and Georgetown are quite solid as well.
I give the ACC the edge, but I don't think it's that big a gap.
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When was the last game Navy played in the Big East ? Oh, that's right, they won't play ANY for another 3 years. Try pumping up the Big East academically without resorting to teams that aren't even in the league yet.

The Big East is pretty good - Georgetown, Rutgers, UConn come to mind. Nova is good, but it's a regional school, not a national one,. But the conference did take a hit in losing BC, then Pitt and Syracuse. The replacements are not on the same level.
 
Marty Jackson said:
what other obvious choices?
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Apparently you've forgotten all the great Frank the Tank articles at the time Jim Delaney first went public with the Big 10's expansion plans. It was all about who among Pitt, Syracuse or Rutgers might be enough to sway Notre Dame to join so that they could move east and capture the NYC market. Then it was about the Big 10 wanted AIA schools (or whatever that consortium is) - like UConn. Then it was about geographic proximity, which meant that Missouri was the likely choice. Then, it was going to be Texas, and Texas would lure Notre Dame. Then it was about cable households who would carry the Big 10 network. Then it was going to be about getting a travel partner and rival for Penn State (Pitt).

I guess it all runs together after a while, but it turned out to be none of those teams. It was Nebraska - a team from a small market, not a contiguous state, not an AIA member, hell, not even a top 100 university. But a hell of a football brand, even in relatively down times.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Misery loves company, and UConn is about to get some company.
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That's a classic line right there.

What I find funny is how half the SU board believes the way for SU to return to prominence is for UConn and RU to fade into total irrelevancy, yet we should be rooting for nothing but great things for SU in the ACC?

In the perfect world all three our school would be part of healthy, vibrant, financially viable conferences, but we know the ACC has tried to put the Big East out to pasture on multiple occasions already.
 
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noeynox said:
That's a classic line right there.

What I find funny is how half the SU board believes the way for SU to return to prominence is for UConn and RU to fade into total irrelevancy, yet we should be rooting for nothing but great things for SU in the ACC?

In the perfect world all three our school would be part of healthy, vibrant, financially viable conferences, but we know the ACC has tried to put the Big East out to pasture on multiple occasions already.
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Regrettably, I don't think there is enough football talent in the tri-state area to support 3 major division 1 programs. SU's decline coincided with Rutgers' rise. Then, Rutgers slipped back into being Rutgers, UConn started playing better. Now that UConn is stuck with Pasqualoni for a few years, and Schiano has bolted town, Syracuse has a chance to start getting that talent again. After going 8-5 and winning a bowl, and then going 5-2 to start the season with a win at West Virginia, SU fans had a right to think that they may have turned the corner. Then the wheels came off and we lost 5 straight to end the season. This is the make or break year for Marrone. If he isn't back in a bowl this year, eventually he will be gone, and SU will likely never get back to the McNabb years again.
 
IthacaMatt said:
Regrettably, I don't think there is enough football talent in the tri-state area to support 3 major division 1 programs. SU's decline coincided with Rutgers' rise. Then, Rutgers slipped back into being Rutgers, UConn started playing better. Now that UConn is stuck with Pasqualoni for a few years, and Schiano has bolted town, Syracuse has a chance to start getting that talent again. After going 8-5 and winning a bowl, and then going 5-2 to start the season with a win at West Virginia, SU fans had a right to think that they may have turned the corner. Then the wheels came off and we lost 5 straight to end the season. This is the make or break year for Marrone. If he isn't back in a bowl this year, eventually he will be gone, and SU will likely never get back to the McNabb years again.
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Eh, I just don't buy that line of thinking. There is a lot of talent that goes FCS or MAC level in the tri state area that is good enough. At UConn lone we have scored players like Lyle McCombs and Shamar Stephen who are near all league caliber and I believe UConn was their only offer. SU's downturn was more due I believe to facilities that fell behind the times, and with replacing a decent coach in Pasquolini with a train wreck in GRob.
 
docsu said:
I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.
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The potential for the ACC's destruction may be a motivator to accelerate that happening. If you believe that ND has interest in parking all sports in the ACC for all the reasons already discussed then the threat of their destruction coupled with the Big East's gutting could push them over the edge.

Obviously this assumes: a) they don't believe they can stay independent and effectively schedule and compete for a title given the current changes, and b) have no interest in the Big10.
 
Notre Dame's impact in any thing going on is grossly overstated. ND is the top target for any expansion, but they are not capable of holding a league together just by joining it.
 
docsu said:
I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.
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Our best case scenario would be the B1G adding us, ND and 2 other northeast teams. Not likely, but best case and big payday.

I think most UConn fans would prefer to be in a conference with regional rivals such as SU, RU, BC. After reading some of the posters on the SU board who are rooting for UConn's (and RU's) demise now that they're in the ACC, there's some animosity building. Not to mention the fact that the ACC has twice severely damaged our conference.
 
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