editor of FSU board on FSU to Big 12

[RS9999X]

Is that $17 million based on personal opinion or any actual fact? Even hard core insiders seem to be estimating a New Big East contract at somewhere around $10-12 million per school. But even assuming you are right, any contract will have typical escalator clauses. So even if the Big east signed a deal worth $17 million per year on average, it will be lower than that from the get go.

And that Tier 3 myth has been debunked time and time again.

It seems the best you are offering is that the Big East might, in an abolute dream scenario, get a contract that's reasonably comparable to the ACC and might actually net a school up to $1 million dollars more. That is if they toss away all their history, join a conference every other school has fled, downgrade their academics and liekly increase travel costs. Who again is signing up for that?

Here's my guess on the BE contract. Much more in line with yours.

Starts at $7.5 million with a 6% escalator for 15 years. They can then claim an $11.6 mil average, $5.6 mil average for BBall and $6.o mil for Foortball only and a $165 mil yearly average total

Year - 1 - 7.5 - Mil
Year - 2 - 8.0 - Mil
Year - 3 - 8.4 - Mil
Year - 4 - 8.9 - Mil
Year - 5 - 9.5 - Mil
Year - 6 - 10.0 - Mil
Year - 7 - 10.6 - Mil
Year - 8 - 11.3 - Mil
Year - 9 - 12.0 - Mil
Year - 10 - 12.7 - Mil
Year - 11 - 13.4 - Mil
Year - 12 - 14.2 - Mil
Year - 13 - 15.1 - Mil
Year - 14 - 16.0 - Mil
Year - 15 - 17.0 - Mil

 

[IthacaMatt]

The PAC and BiG already announced their inbreeding plan to play a full slate of 12 games against each other and matchup in the Rose Bowl and are looking at 9 game conference schedules.

The big fear is the B12 going to 14 teams and matchng up with the SEC for 14 games and adopting 9 game schedules and playing in a Jerry Jones Bowl as a counterpart to the Rose Bowl.

The greatest fear: the Big 4 can scrap the conference championship games and advance 2 teams each (the conference divisional winners) into an 8 team playoff (a 7-bowl series) and rake in mountains of greenbacks.

Teams left out of that cluster frak simply won't matter. Boise versus Notre Dame might draw some viewers Holiday Week but it simply would not matter. Pitt V Lousville? UConn v. Miami? BYU v. Maryland? Forget it. Those 52 teams in the Big 4 would rule Div I which is what they want.

They are on the cusp of this IMHO. All it takes is a little chutzpah. Likely they set it up by teh B12 adding 2 teams now and going for the 4 team playoff. By 2020 the B14 will exist and inbreeding will procede.

Anti-trust dogs are coming, if it's that few teams who control the national championship.

As to your other point, they have already ruined the bowl season. Almost none of the games matter to anyone who isn't playing in them.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

What was inaccurate about what I posted? I did not realize FSU had a contract. I know the ACC does. I posted the numbers about it. ACC schools were projected to make a little over $10.5 million per year next year prior to renegotiation. I don't know anyone that has the exact figures, but reasonable estimates push that number over $12 million.

So I ask a second time. Can you name me one example of me selling the "ACC is puppies and unicorns fantasy"? Is posting actual truthful and relevant information so frowned upon by you?

Even Ithaca Matt has given up the ghost on arguing that things are peachy in the ACC. FSU is publicly puking all over this TV contract. Can you remember the last time a school publicly shredded their conference like this over a TV deal? I can't, and the Big East has signed some crappy TV deals.

Your league is coming apart literally as we speak, and you are making post after post telling us how wonderful it is. It's a free country, so post what you want, but you do sound ridiculous defending the ACC.

 

[IthacaMatt]

my bank doesn't take 'brand image'... They require that my deposits are $'s.
I'm not saying Brand image isn't worth anything, but it doesn't pay the bills or directly add to the endowment. Clearly, the Big12 has a differenct calculation for valuing their branding as they willingly accepted WVU whereas the ACC wouldn't touch them even though they would bring more $'s than Pitt or Syr.
Don't forget, this is only the TV revenue... Isn't there the BCS monies as well? If you're not in the right conference, you get nothing of that money.
I'm sorry, but I work for a $100B company which I'm guessing is bigger than some of these universities. And if we're given a $10-$20M guaranteed revenue stream with no incremental cash layout, we'll take it every time.

You are way off. Brand is why the Big 10 took Nebraska over all the other "obvious" choices.

 

[observer]

This coming from the guy that provided some chucklehead link a week ago that you claim proved that FSU would not go to the Big 12. Seems like the news cycle has moved against you.

OOOOOO, the news cycle. Well I am properly chastened and will henceforth just feast on each nugget from the internet as though it was the second discovery of the dead Sea Scrolls.

The 'news cycle' here says that Pitt is now going to the Big 12 with FSU. A look at the Pitt board shows that they are totally in the dark as to this development affecting their University. Guess the 'news cycle' travels slower to western PA.

People here need to focus on facts and what makes sense and stop acting like 13 year old kids who spend their days obsessing over how they wish that a girl that spurned them contracts some loathsome disease, becomes pregnant by her new boyfriend, gains 300 pounds or all of the above.

Finally, Nelson, maybe you should try posting something intelligent and well reasoned as opposed to just calling people names. Or is that what childeren with nothing serious to say do?

 

[The Funster]

This coming from the guy that provided some chucklehead link a week ago that you claim proved that FSU would not go to the Big 12. Seems like the news cycle has moved against you.

...posted by the King of chucklehead links...

 

[Jericho]

Even Ithaca Matt has given up the ghost on arguing that things are peachy in the ACC. FSU is publicly puking all over this TV contract. Can you remember the last time a school publicly shredded their conference like this over a TV deal? I can't, and the Big East has signed some crappy TV deals.

Your league is coming apart literally as we speak, and you are making post after post telling us how wonderful it is. It's a free country, so post what you want, but you do sound ridiculous defending the ACC.

Why are you making up arguments? Did I say things ever were "peachy"? Apparently not joining in your world view that all the ACC is falling apart means I'm supporting the ACC and it's "my" league.

I still have a hard time buying the logic of FSU leaving. I'm not saying it won't happen, but financially isn't not some huge boon. FSU does something like $900,000,000 in revenues each year and this my net them $5 million more (could be higher, but this is a reasonable estimate) per year (not accounting for any potential offsets of increased travel, etc...). Even if FSU wants to go the Big 12 route, I have an even harder time seeing anyone else make the jump. I've posted several times how I've always felt FSU was the least comitted member of the ACC. But I don't see anyone else both dissatisfied with the ACC and switching conferences to save a few million.

But evern going through all that, even if the ACC lost two schools, they're still fine. I don't get this "doom and gloom" of the ACC. The Big 10 moves at a glacial pace and won't do anything without Notre Dame. Is there any real reason for the SEC to add even more schools unless they simply want to steal FSU from the Big 12?

Last time Colorado and Nebraska left and everyone starting envisioning their 16 team superconferences. And in the end, hardly anyone moved. The blogosphere gets giddy with the thought of mass movement, when in the end the movement is pretty minimal.

I don't share your crazy extremist thoughts, so apparently that labels me delusional. But I consider it just rational and reasonable.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why are you making up arguments? Did I say things ever were "peachy"? Apparently not joining in your world view that all the ACC is falling apart means I'm supporting the ACC and it's "my" league.

I still have a hard time buying the logic of FSU leaving. I'm not saying it won't happen, but financially isn't not some huge boon. FSU does something like $900,000,000 in revenues each year and this my net them $5 million more (could be higher, but this is a reasonable estimate) per year (not accounting for any potential offsets of increased travel, etc...). Even if FSU wants to go the Big 12 route, I have an even harder time seeing anyone else make the jump. I've posted several times how I've always felt FSU was the least comitted member of the ACC. But I don't see anyone else both dissatisfied with the ACC and switching conferences to save a few million.

But evern going through all that, even if the ACC lost two schools, they're still fine. I don't get this "doom and gloom" of the ACC. The Big 10 moves at a glacial pace and won't do anything without Notre Dame. Is there any real reason for the SEC to add even more schools unless they simply want to steal FSU from the Big 12?

Last time Colorado and Nebraska left and everyone starting envisioning their 16 team superconferences. And in the end, hardly anyone moved. The blogosphere gets giddy with the thought of mass movement, when in the end the movement is pretty minimal.

I don't share your crazy extremist thoughts, so apparently that labels me delusional. But I consider it just rational and reasonable.

Likewise, I have a hard time believing that Florida State REALLY wants to play in the Big 12, especially when you consider it from an all-sports perspective. What they really really want, IMO, is to be invited into the SEC. That's the only league that matters to them.

 

[docsu]

I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Let's say the BE contract is $12M... in the discussions that are going to be happening, why wouldn't the BE leadership try to determine what incremental value particular schools might bring.
So yes, if the BE can net $17M per school by adding FSU et al, then I don't think they would change. But, let's say the BE learned that adding certain schools might bring $22M (Pitt/Syr brought $2M in a closed negotiation), then yes I think they might approach some of those schools or have the language written in the contract. I think it's very likely that the BE understands what BYU or Air Force would bring. Why not figure out what ND or other 'in-play' schools would bring. Clearly, there is dissention in the ACC .
As for academics, I don't see a big difference between the ACC and BE. Both have very strong academics mixed with some average academics. Please tell me which ACC university is more prestigious than the Naval Academy. Travel costs are irrelevant if the money is there as WVU has proven. And lastly, FSU would join the Big 12 but not the BE because schools have fled? Do nebraska, Mizzou, A&M, and Colorado ring a bell?

 

[Marty Jackson]

Is that $17 million based on personal opinion or any actual fact? Even hard core insiders seem to be estimating a New Big East contract at somewhere around $10-12 million per school. But even assuming you are right, any contract will have typical escalator clauses. So even if the Big east signed a deal worth $17 million per year on average, it will be lower than that from the get go.

And that Tier 3 myth has been debunked time and time again.

It seems the best you are offering is that the Big East might, in an abolute dream scenario, get a contract that's reasonably comparable to the ACC and might actually net a school up to $1 million dollars more. That is if they toss away all their history, join a conference every other school has fled, downgrade their academics and liekly increase travel costs. Who again is signing up for that?

also, please explain the 3rd party 'myth' being debunked... They don't exist or the difference between the Big12 and ACC contract isn't 3rd party?

 

[docsu]

The ACC will retain rights to an extra football game (likely against an FCS team) and a handfull of basketball games against the teams that are roughly on par with Quinipiac.

That's the list. Florida State retains the rights to their baseball games and olympic sports, radio, stadium advertsising, etc. I am sure that one football game is enough to start a network though.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.

It may not be rational. Many of us simply hate the ACC and always will. Even if we get in one day.

 

[junglehusky]

As for academics, I don't see a big difference between the ACC and BE. Both have very strong academics mixed with some average academics. Please tell me which ACC university is more prestigious than the Naval Academy. Travel costs are irrelevant if the money is there as WVU has proven. And lastly, FSU would join the Big 12 but not the BE because schools have fled? Do nebraska, Mizzou, A&M, and Colorado ring a bell?

Sorry, it's no contest for academics with the NNBE vs. ACC. UNC, UVA, Maryland, Duke, Georgia Tech and even FSU all easily surpass Boise, Houston, UCF, even the 2003 additions of USF, Louisville and Cincy. Not even close.

 

[RS9999X]

Anti-trust dogs are coming, if it's that few teams who control the national championship. sc
.

There are those who think the anti-trust claim is bogus. Other conferences are free to play for a Championship of their own and recruit and sell to TV networks and the Internet. If the AP declares a National Champion is irrelevant. If a Conference is legal and playing games each other during the regular season is legal then why is a post season tourney restricted to 4 Conferences illegal?

 

[Marty Jackson]

Your original post was that schools were jumping ship for peanuts. I countered that the $'s involved are significant and that which schools are affiliated with certain conferences also plays into a decision to 'jump', ie branding. In the end, I'm not sure FSU can value their inclusion in the ACC at $5-$10M annually.

 

[Marty Jackson]

We don't have a golden ticket because we're carrying too much baggage. FSU isn't happy with Wake and BC -- you think they're racing over to partner with SMU, Houston, Memphis and Temple?

SMU/Houston/Boise are fb schools... If FSU is lumped with ND and VT, yes I think they would.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Sorry, it's no contest for academics with the NNBE vs. ACC. UNC, UVA, Maryland, Duke, Georgia Tech and even FSU all easily surpass Boise, Houston, UCF, even the 2003 additions of USF, Louisville and Cincy. Not even close.

If you list their top schools against our bottom sure it looks lopsided. The BE has Navy. Which ACC school tops that? SMU? Uconn and Rutgers are two of the top ranked public universities. ND, St. John's, and Georgetown are quite solid as well.
I give the ACC the edge, but I don't think it's that big a gap.

 

[Marty Jackson]

You are way off. Brand is why the Big 10 took Nebraska over all the other "obvious" choices.

what other obvious choices?

 

[businesslawyer]

what other obvious choices?

Missouri, Syracuse and Pitt.

 

[junglehusky]

If you list their top schools against our bottom sure it looks lopsided. The BE has Navy. Which ACC school tops that? SMU? Uconn and Rutgers are two of the top ranked public universities. ND, St. John's, and Georgetown are quite solid as well.
I give the ACC the edge, but I don't think it's that big a gap.

We had a long thread on this back in the fall, skip down a to page 5 to see the rankings.

Reiterating a main point: universities want to associate with peer institutions that share similar academic missions. UConn has been on a 20+ year course (UConn 2000, 21st Century UConn) to become one of the top public universities, its model was schools like UNC and Wisconsin. We've had some success but obviously want to keep moving up. Navy is obviously a very good school but it has a completely different academic mission. It has a different makeup of its student body. SMU might be an OK school but it has a religious mission. There's very little overlap in the type of student who applies to SMU, whereas the type of student who applies to UNC and UVA are exactly the kind of applicant that UConn wants to attract. This is why Herbst was/is #BeggingHarder.

 

[RS9999X]

Some of these campuses have academic unions and organizations driven by Ken Krayeske's brothers and sisters and they carry some real clout. They hate the whole athletics thing and gripe constantly about the money going into athletic facilities.

FSU might be one of the few where these activists have clout

 

[arnie3]

Here is an article that asks "Will Florida State Demand Swofford's Resignation At ACC Meetings?"

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2012/...meetings-swofford-resign-big-12-expansion-xii

One point made takes a swipe @ BCU - "FSU is by far the top property in the ACC, and it doesn't believe it is fair for freeloading schools like BC, Wake and others to earn the same amount from the awful TV contract that just gets worse by the minute. Throw in a perceived bias from the league office against the 'Noles and in favor of UNC and the triangle, and things have the potential to get hot over the next few days."

Also, viewing the three alternatives, two include "botched expansion." The addition of Pitt and "Cuse was viewed less than favorably by FSU- they felt that neither team added value. Perhaps, FSU saw them as just more"freeloaders" like BCU and Wake!
Since Swofford has a reported 4 more years on his contract, it is almost inconceivable that he gets canned. Will that be "cause" for a FSU split? I don't know but it sure is getting interesting!

 

[nelsonmuntz]

...posted by the King of chucklehead links...

got a link for that, or just trying to be clever?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I find it curious that Uconn fans would be activelyt rooting for the ACC's destruction when their best case scenario in realignment is that the ACC adds Notre Dame.

Misery loves company, and UConn is about to get some company.