Commentary Thread for Premium Top-Shelf Tweets

[CL82]

Rutgers to the Big10 still confounds me.

In a nutshell:

NJ's population just under 9 million
CT's population just under 3.6 million.
Either brought access to the NYC DMA (Big Ten network suscriber $)

 

[VPDcurt]

In a nutshell:

NJ's population just under 9 million
CT's population just under 3.6 million.
Either brought access to the NYC DMA (Big Ten network suscriber $)

Regardless of the numbers, I think Rutgers suffers from the same thing BC does. I lived in Boston (downtown) for 5 years and can tell you that no one, and I mean NO ONE, cares about BC athletics. I think the same can be said of NYC and Rutgers.

 

[CL82]

Regardless of the numbers, I think Rutgers suffers from the same thing BC does. I lived in Boston (downtown) for 5 years and can tell you that no one, and I mean NO ONE, cares about BC athletics. I think the same can be said of NYC and Rutgers.

I live in Jersey. Before the move to the Big 10 the absence of Rugters gear, flags, magnets, etc. was striking. Since the move, there definitely is a Rutgers presence. Now that could just be the soft economy pushing more kids to State U, but I think that Big 10 membership has helped Rutgers brand at least locally. I really don't begrudge them any success (at least until one of their posters shows up here.)

 

[VPDcurt]

I live in Jersey. Before the move to the Big 10 the absence of Rugters gear, flags, magnets, etc. was striking. Since the move, there definitely is a Rutgers presence. Now that could just be the soft economy pushing more kids to State U, but I think that Big 10 membership has helped Rutgers brand at least locally. I really don't begrudge them any success (at least until one of their posters shows up here.)

I agree. Unfortunately, joining the ACC did not have that desired effect on BC.

 

[MattMang23]

The state U of a large state vs. smallish private Catholic school in an area where most people are not fervently religious. Advantage: Rutgers.

 

[Matrim55]

Those comments were directed toward the other 9 presidents IMO. We want expansion or we are going to step down from the expansion committee and begin to plan our exit at the end of the GOR. OU and UT are essentially playing chicken with each other.

The Big 12 is a family.
UT is the alcoholic abusive dad
OU is the abused wife
KU is the oldest sister who knows what is going on with mom and dad and tries to take care of the kids
ISU, KSU, OSU, TT, Baylor, and TCU are the kids KU takes care of.
WVU is the outcast kid who already moved out on thier own at 16.

OU put it's foot down once again, we'll see if UT gives in or just goes back to thier old ways.

Ran this by a KU friend. He expanded:

Baylor is the kid everyone thought was good, but is a compulsive liar and bad friend who tries to get the neighborhood girls to see "what's in my dad's shed"

TCU is a half sister, whose other family is really rich and showers them with gifts the others don't get as long as she goes to their church

Texas Tech is the kid everyone forgets exists

OSU is the oldest other than KU. Really likes to party. Pretty stupid.

KSU has terrible self esteem but is ignored by the older sister. Occasionally does something decent and tries to get attention but gets shouted down by everyone else.

ISU is the red-headed stepchild whose real family loves his brother (Iowa) way more than him

And yeah, WVU started smoking cigarettes at 12, left home at 16, lives with her boyfriend in a trailer

 

[huskymedic]

Ralph Russo: AP Source: Dungy part of USF pitch to Big 12 as meeting wrap

>>Hall of Fame coach Tony Dungy was part of South Florida's pitch to the Big 12 and former major league first baseman Tino Martinez also went to bat for the Bulls.

The Big 12 on Friday concluded a week of meetings in North Texas with the 11 schools vying to join the conference. USF, Cincinnati and Rice made the final presentations, according to three people with knowledge of the meetings who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity. The people spoke on condition of anonymity because the conference was keeping its meetings confidential.

According to a person familiar with USF's pitch, Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeffrey Vinik was part of the team sent to Texas and the presentation included a video with Dungy and Martinez endorsing the Bulls.<<

More info on USF pitch including the referenced Dungy/Tino video: More USF-Big 12 promotional materials unveiled (UPDATED)

>>The first slide in a 28-slide presentation -- entitled "A New Partnership" -- seems to indicate the formal presenters were President Dr. Judy Genshaft, athletic director Mark Harlan, USF general counsel Gerard Solis, Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik and USF Board of Trustees chair Brian Lamb.<<

 

[upstater]

Fair enough but lots of schools claim everyone else is cooking the books. UNC claims thier huge subsidy number is a lie. Colorado makes excuses about not getting a Big 12 check 4 years ago which is the reason they have terrible finances. Louisville Has Been accused of this as well. I just go by what is reported as opposed to the claims some make.

Maybe UConn takes the high road and everyone else does it differently. If so good on them.

Does Rutgers have an excuse?

I'm sure a lot of schools just take the private money and put it into facilities so as not to burden the academic side.

But this doesn't make them more virtuous. Not when UConn subsidizes the AD with student money.

Just to give you an example of where to find this information, look at the actual budgets in-depth of individual schools. I will give an example. Michigan. They rebuilt their stadium and Chrisler Arena several years ago. They have sunk $300B into facilities, and they owe that money on the academic side. The debt service on that money is $18-19m a year and it shows up in the total school's budget. For many years, the AD paid nothing toward that. But by now, they are contributing up to $13m toward the debt service, reducing this hidden subsidy from $18-19m a year to $5-6m a year. To top it off, they are also contributing money now to the academic side (which may cover tutoring etc.). The point is, however, that even if they are totally in the black (which they are) the subsidy still doesn't show up on places like USA Today's database. You will only find such information in the actual budgets. U. Texas is the same as Michigan.

 

[Yawkey Way]

I lived in Boston (downtown) for 5 years and can tell you that no one, and I mean NO ONE, cares about BC athletics. .

Thats not true. But lets assume that this often heard inaccurate narrative was indeed true, why then did the ACC accept BC into the ACC ? ... because of its athletics ? Because if one accepts that there is no interest in Boston for BC, then they are left with " athletics accomplishments " as the only other plausable reason for BC's early invite from the ACC in their expansion plans. Just sayin'.

 

[Fishy]

No one cares about BC athletics.

 

[VPDcurt]

No one cares about BC athletics.

Thank you.

 

[UConnJim]

Thats not true. But lets assume that this often heard inaccurate narrative was indeed true, why then did the ACC accept BC into the ACC ? ... because of its athletics ? Because if one accepts that there is no interest in Boston for BC, then they are left with " athletics accomplishments " as the only other plausable reason for BC's early invite from the ACC in their expansion plans. Just sayin'.

Since the Flutie years, BC has changed dramatically. BC has become a very good school, but they used to be a local/regional school and they are now a national school as the students come from everywhere. In the old days, BC was full of local Boston kids, especially kids with Irish backgrounds, but those days are long gone.

Many like how BC has changed, but local alums aren't so happy with the transition as it is now very hard for local legacies to get into BC.

Why is this important? BC has lost its connection to the locals as they have become a national university. They probably can't grow local athletic fan interest that much going forward given that they aren't focused on the local market anymore and attending athletic events at BC is very difficult, especially for the casual fan.

BC is a good fit for the ACC which has similar mid size private schools like Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, and Syracuse, but all of these schools have fan base issues. Growing their fan bases will be difficult as none are state flagship universities.

 

[Yawkey Way]

SCANDAL: ESPN Told The ACC Which Teams To Take From Big East Conference

Miami left the Big East for the ACC in 2003... which effectively started the collapse of the BE Football League. ESPN was not a party to this.The article here is ESPN 6 years later ( and after Miami, BC, VT are in the ACC ) that states thar ESPN is allegedly involved in influencing the remaining teams that it would like the ACC to invite.

 

[Yawkey Way]

Since the Flutie years, BC has changed dramatically. BC has become a very good school, but they used to be a local/regional school and they are now a national school as the students come from everywhere. In the old days, BC was full of local Boston kids, especially kids with Irish backgrounds, but those days are long gone.

Many like how BC has changed, but local alums aren't so happy with the transition as it is now very hard for local legacies to get into BC.

Why is this important? BC has lost its connection to the locals as they have become a national university. They probably can't grow local athletic fan interest that much going forward given that they aren't focused on the local market anymore and attending athletic events at BC is very difficult, especially for the casual fan.

BC is a good fit for the ACC which has similar mid size private schools like Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, and Syracuse, but all of these schools have fan base issues. Growing their fan bases will be difficult as none are state flagship universities.

Good analysis of BC's transformation from its earlier beginnings as essentially a commuter school in its student demographics to that of today with a broader, national student demographic... and I would concur with much of the rest of your assessment as well, UconnJim.

 

[Yawkey Way]

No one cares about BC athletics.

The ACC School Presidents that vote on ACC expansion schools do.

 

[NYUConn]

The ACC School Presidents do.

"My mom likes me"

 

[Yawkey Way]

"My mom likes me"

I would hope so... Your Dad too, NYUConn.

 

[Fishy]

The ACC School Presidents that vote on ACC expansion schools do.

They did. And then most of them retired.

Their successors are probably quite a bit less enthusiastic.

 

[Adios]

Those ACC presidents were also apparently misguided. I am sure the ACC wishes they could swap BC for UConn.

 

[MattMang23]

The ACC School Presidents that vote on ACC expansion schools do.

Ehhhh. That's also debatable. What they do care about though, are how many TV sets are in Boston.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Since the Flutie years, BC has changed dramatically. BC has become a very good school, but they used to be a local/regional school and they are now a national school as the students come from everywhere. In the old days, BC was full of local Boston kids, especially kids with Irish backgrounds, but those days are long gone.

Many like how BC has changed, but local alums aren't so happy with the transition as it is now very hard for local legacies to get into BC.

Why is this important? BC has lost its connection to the locals as they have become a national university. They probably can't grow local athletic fan interest that much going forward given that they aren't focused on the local market anymore and attending athletic events at BC is very difficult, especially for the casual fan.

BC is a good fit for the ACC which has similar mid size private schools like Miami, Wake Forest, Duke, and Syracuse, but all of these schools have fan base issues. Growing their fan bases will be difficult as none are state flagship universities.

^^^Nailed it. It's not "no one", but the fans they have are getting older and are increasingly displeased with their alma mater. I married one of those local Irish background BC grads, she certainly doesn't care about BC athletics.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

After spending a couple of days thinking about Boren's statements, and the Flug tweets which he claims come from Oklahoma, it appears that Boren is turning up the heat. This isn't a shot across the bow, he hit the bow, and he is warning the Big 12 that the next shot will be below the waterline.

The part of this I can't figure out is Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU. Why are they backing Texas on this? Texas has shown no loyalty to them before, and literally abandoned most of their league 20 years ago. If those schools wanted political cover, they got it. Why would they piss off Oklahoma like this when it could effectively be a death sentence for their athletic departments. If any of their representatives were in the school meetings the last two weeks, they should be thinking about how it will feel to be on the other side of that table in a few years when Texas and Oklahoma bolt and they have to find a new home.

 

[gioff23]

After spending a couple of days thinking about Boren's statements, and the Flug tweets which he claims come from Oklahoma, it appears that Boren is turning up the heat. This isn't a shot across the bow, he hit the bow, and he is warning the Big 12 that the next shot will be below the waterline.

The part of this I can't figure out is Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU. Why are they backing Texas on this? Texas has shown no loyalty to them before, and literally abandoned most of their league 20 years ago. If those schools wanted political cover, they got it. Why would they piss off Oklahoma like this when it could effectively be a death sentence for their athletic departments. If any of their representatives were in the school meetings the last two weeks, they should be thinking about how it will feel to be on the other side of that table in a few years when Texas and Oklahoma bolt and they have to find a new home.

Welcome to politics, Texas style.

 

[Kolumbo]

Life in the AAC summed up by The Dog:
Nathan 'Diamond Dog' Jones: It's a means to an end, my white friend. A means to an end. See, I's can play house xxxxxx tills we get to where we're goin'. And then, the Day of the Dog begins.

 

[atom58]

After spending a couple of days thinking about Boren's statements, and the Flug tweets which he claims come from Oklahoma, it appears that Boren is turning up the heat. This isn't a shot across the bow, he hit the bow, and he is warning the Big 12 that the next shot will be below the waterline.

The part of this I can't figure out is Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU. Why are they backing Texas on this? Texas has shown no loyalty to them before, and literally abandoned most of their league 20 years ago. If those schools wanted political cover, they got it. Why would they piss off Oklahoma like this when it could effectively be a death sentence for their athletic departments. If any of their representatives were in the school meetings the last two weeks, they should be thinking about how it will feel to be on the other side of that table in a few years when Texas and Oklahoma bolt and they have to find a new home.

I agree with your analysis of Boren's statements. In 1996, when the Big 8 became the Big XII and the SWC ended, the four SWC teams that made the transition were Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, and Texas Tech. Left behind were TCU, Houston, SMU, and Rice. When A&M later left, TCU replaced them. Maybe Texas and Texas Tech could leave together as state schools to any other conference who would take them as a package deal but private schools TCU and Baylor would be left behind so they should start voting in their own long-term self interests. This should be true for the other 6 schools not in Texas so that would bring you to 8 votes. I do believe the "Big 10" would consider only AAU schools and only Texas, Kansas, and Iowa State are in that category - it is unlucky for ISU that Iowa is already there. This leaves very limited exit options for all but OU - they could bring along OK State to the SEC or Pac 12 as a package deal I think, so the conference had better expand while they can, and as I mentioned elsewhere the LHN would be an albatross for Texas preventing them from full membership anywhere else, plus I don't see them wanting to take a back seat to Alabama in the SEC, Southern Cal in the Pac 12, Michigan and Ohio State in the "Big 10", or the NC schools in the ACC, even if they folded up the LHN network.

The dying days of the SWC

Southwest Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[VPDcurt]

It's not "no one", but the fans they have are getting older and are increasingly displeased with their alma mater.

Such a concrete thinker you are. I'll be you continue to exhibit object permanence as well.

 

[bobbyinaz]

All of this assumes OK has a place to go, which IMO, they don't.

The days of taking a "blueblood" program just because, are over. Nebraska got that last ticket.

The SEC & B1G, with their wildly successful networks, are not adding anybody unless they bring cable boxes. The PAC12 network has been a massive failure. Adding OK & the state of Oklahoma does nothing to change that. What does that leave for OK? The ACC? That's not happening either.

Boren's play from the beginning was he wanted a network for the B12 because he believed it would help close the financial gap between HIS SCHOOL and schools in the SEC & B1G. When he found out that wasn't happening, he began to push the expansion agenda, not because it would be beneficial to the conference from an athletic & academic perspective but, because there is a contractual requirement to pay the conference more money.

OK is no different than KU, ISU, TCU or anybody else in the conference not named UT. Unless they can piggyback with UT as an expansion partner somewhere they are locked into the B12 with no other options.

 

[Exit 4]

All of this assumes OK has a place to go, which IMO, they don't.

The days of taking a "blueblood" program just because, are over. Nebraska got that last ticket.

The SEC & B1G, with their wildly successful networks, are not adding anybody unless they bring cable boxes. The PAC12 network has been a massive failure. Adding OK & the state of Oklahoma does nothing to change that. What does that leave for OK? The ACC? That's not happening either.

Boren's play from the beginning was he wanted a network for the B12 because he believed it would help close the financial gap between HIS SCHOOL and schools in the SEC & B1G. When he found out that wasn't happening, he began to push the expansion agenda, not because it would be beneficial to the conference from an athletic & academic perspective but, because there is a contractual requirement to pay the conference more money.

OK is no different than KU, ISU, TCU or anybody else in the conference not named UT. Unless they can piggyback with UT as an expansion partner somewhere they are locked into the B12 with no other options.

I think you are right. OK wouldn't be pushing so hard for this expansion if it had a sure ticket out in my opinion. That said, it seems OK is most interested in adding teams that help the conferences's cable box issue even if cable boxes are not what they were just 3 years ago. B12 needs more major media markets and to reach more new households to protect its long term survival. The best four to maximum media reach to new markets remains UConn, Cincy, a FL directional and BYU. Houston does not deliver a marginal add to media value since the state is already covered by four programs. And since the FL directional schools seem to be out, maybe Tulane (I know, crazy talk) or CSU (no end in site for the growth in Colorado) is that fourth school to add another major market. Lastly, by any account Fox will want that fourth school to be in the eastern time zone. I would bet Fox will actually prefer Temple to CSU.

 

[bobbyinaz]

I think you are right. OK wouldn't be pushing so hard for this expansion if it had a sure ticket out in my opinion. That said, it seems OK is most interested in adding teams that help the conferences's cable box issue even if cable boxes are not what they were just 3 years ago. B12 needs more major media markets and to reach more new households to protect its long term survival. The best four to maximum media reach to new markets remains UConn, Cincy, a FL directional and BYU. Houston does not deliver a marginal add to media value since the state is already covered by four programs. And since the FL directional schools seem to be out, maybe Tulane (I know, crazy talk) or CSU (no end in site for the growth in Colorado) is that fourth school to add another major market. Lastly, by any account Fox will want that fourth school to be in the eastern time zone. I would bet Fox will actually prefer Temple to CSU.

Do they really? Right now, they are 3rd in TV revenue behind the SEC & B1G, who they are not closing the gap on. The PAC12 is a mess with their network. The ACC is getting a network so that MAY push them ahead in revenue but that's not happening for several years as the ACCN is at least 2-3 years out and will take time to ramp up.

The B12 can stay exactly where they are now and ride the TV contracts out for the next 7-8 years until they expire. When it comes time to re-negotiate they can then find out which schools the networks want added, if any and make a determination then to expand or not..

OK has ALWAYS been a weaker sister to UT and that's not changing. Boren played a game of chicken that he lost and is now trying to scramble as best as he can to save face. I know he is the chair of the expansion committee but, the fact that he keeps running his mouth in the press while NOTHING is coming out of Austin very clearly speaks volumes

 

[Exit 4]

Do they really? Right now, they are 3rd in TV revenue behind the SEC & B1G, who they are not closing the gap on. The PAC12 is a mess with their network. The ACC is getting a network so that MAY push them ahead in revenue but that's not happening for several years as the ACCN is at least 2-3 years out and will take time to ramp up.

The B12 can stay exactly where they are now and ride the TV contracts out for the next 7-8 years until they expire. When it comes time to re-negotiate they can then find out which schools the networks want added, if any and make a determination then to expand or not..

OK has ALWAYS been a weaker sister to UT and that's not changing. Boren played a game of chicken that he lost and is now trying to scramble as best as he can to save face. I know he is the chair of the expansion committee but, the fact that he keeps running his mouth in the press while NOTHING is coming out of Austin very clearly speaks volumes

Good points, but I think Boren recognizes that to protect the B12 beyond 2023 it would be better to add teams sooner rather than later for two reasons; first nothing new will be available for a very long time; The ACCn + GOR extension changed everything. Basically the ACC, B1G and SEC are all locked up, leaving just the PAC to possibly pilfer. And what ever the woes of the PAC, it seems absurd any school would leave the all powerful universe of CA, OR & WA which have tremendous long run economic advantages. Second, it will take time to integrate the new schools and build out new B12 media friendly markets. Boren knows that under more sensible media rights pricing going forward, their little universe of 1 big state and 4 small states won't be valued on par with the four other P5 conferences when the current deal expires...unless they add the right new markets. The idea is to add G5 pip squeaks today so that in 2023 the new blood is established (like TCU and Baylor) and accepted.

Boren is trying to set them up for the best media rights extension possible given the cards dealt when 2023 (is that the right year?) comes along.