OT: Celtics / Cavs megadeal

[polycom]

If I have to hide a player, does it matter?

Why would Steph Curry want to run PnR against IT? In an iso he gets IT on an island. In PnR he winds up with a larger defender. Sure, his role partner gets IT, but why bother.

Did you watch any of the games in Finals last year? Kyrie doesn't guard Curry well either. He doesn't guard anyone well. So his height advantage over IT ain't worth a bag of .

You'd run the PnR with Steph as the screener...

 

[MilliniumPrince]

His height has affected him greatly in the playoffs. There is a reason why his shooting percentages drop significantly and his turnovers increase.

Yes, he was injured, played better teams, and everyone realized they had no legit second option. Oh, and his sister died in a car accident. But yes, if you overlook all that....

I am not saying IT is better than Kyrie. I just don't think he is much worse. Straight up, I take Kyrie. Add in Crowder and a likely top 5 draft pick I take IT.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

You'd run the PnR with Steph as the screener...

I will give Steph the ball in iso/flat sets and watch him score 50 shooting over a 5'8" defender. But either way would work.

 

[polycom]

I will give Steph the ball in iso/flat sets and watch him score 50 shooting over a 5'8" defender. But either way would work.

Either way IT can't be on the court in those situation because whoever he is guarding is lighting him up.

 

[the Q]

Another post with zero analysis and facts and the regurgitation of the opinion of an ESPN writer. Thank you for your contribution.

The fact you agree with @nelsonmuntz tells you all you should need to know.

I've already schooled you but if you wanna keep going.

Crowder had the best RPM of any one in the deal.

The difference from IT to Kyrie was small....crowder alone makes it an overpay. The premium pick, the crown jewel of the trade with Brooklyn, makes it suicidal.

 

[the Q]

You think the Celts are the loser on this trade?

It's not even a question.

They gave up way too much for a minimal upgrade.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Either way IT can't be on the court in those situation because whoever he is guarding is lighting him up.

Just as Kyrie his been lit up. That is my point. There is no difference.

 

[Jerry1714]

Yes, he was injured, played better teams, and everyone realized they had no legit second option. Oh, and his sister died in a car accident. But yes, if you overlook all that....

I am not saying IT is better than Kyrie. I just don't think he is much worse. Straight up, I take Kyrie. Add in Crowder and a likely top 5 draft pick I take IT.

His shooting percentages were actually much worse in the '16 playoffs than the '17 playoffs. He was 39% from the field and 28% from 3. What are your excuses for that performance?

Kyrie is better, much better, younger, signed longer, and oh, also a lot better when it matters; the playoffs.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Because they are both only good at scoring and his height hasn't stopped him from doing so in high volume. His height is only and issue on Defense, and if you think that give Kyrie and advantage.....you have never seen him play defense. He is turrrible.

By the way, Kyrie is 6'3". And he is still a bad defender.

Kyrie is mediocre defensively on his good days. That said, if this trade was just Irving for Thomas/Crowder, it would be a decent deal for Boston. They don't need Crowder and Thomas may be coming off a career year. Zizic has a lot of potential, but who knows if or when he will show up, so you can live with him being added to the deal. Giving up what could be a Top 5 draft pick as a throw in is just flat out crazy.

 

[polycom]

It's not even a question.

They gave up way too much for a minimal upgrade.

Hilarious, winning the regular season isn't their goal.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I've already schooled you but if you wanna keep going.

Crowder had the best RPM of any one in the deal.

The difference from IT to Kyrie was small....crowder alone makes it an overpay. The premium pick, the crown jewel of the trade with Brooklyn, makes it suicidal.

Fair points, but the Celts were going to lose IT anyway. They were never going to sign him to a max deal. They got a big name player who is as offensively talented as any point guard in the league. I think the Cavs got the better end of the deal too, but not by much.

 

[Jerry1714]

I've already schooled you but if you wanna keep going.

Crowder had the best RPM of any one in the deal.

The difference from IT to Kyrie was small....crowder alone makes it an overpay. The premium pick, the crown jewel of the trade with Brooklyn, makes it suicidal.

Schooled me? Ha you have been made to look like a fool and Chad Ford wannabe. Tell me the player who will make 4 All Star games in his first 6 years in this draft, still waiting for this from you. Or has Chad Ford not responded to your email yet so you can tell me the answer?

Crowder's PER was 137th, tied with Bobby Portis. Just stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Walker11]

Hilarious, winning the regular season isn't their goal.

Go check out the take from whatever hoops journalist you respect. The consensus is that it was either a win win (my leaning) or a fleecing by CLE. You are on an island with your take. It is JSMesque to have the sole contrary opinion, yet remain convinced everyone else crazy.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Kyrie is mediocre defensively on his good days. That said, if this trade was just Irving for Thomas/Crowder, it would be a decent deal for Boston. They don't need Crowder and Thomas may be coming off a career year. Zizic has a lot of potential, but who knows if or when he will show up, so you can live with him being added to the deal. Giving up what could be a Top 5 draft pick as a throw in is just flat out crazy.

Cavs won't make the deal without the pick or Tatum. People seem to forget Kyrie is a professional under contract. It isn't like he would have refused to show up in Cleveland when the season started. Personally, I think the Cavs should have kept him. I would have called him in, listened to his complaints, paid a little lip-service, then told him to get his ass to work. It would have been uncomfortable for 20 games, maybe. Shaq threatened to kill Kobe after the snitching on video during his rape interrogation. That team went to the Finals. These guys are pros and money talks.

 

[the Q]

Fair points, but the Celts were going to lose IT anyway. They were never going to sign him to a max deal. They got a big name player who is as offensively talented as any point guard in the league. I think the Cavs got the better end of the deal too, but not by much.

Do The Celtics Have Enough Star Power To Win a Title? Not Yet.

This trade barely moves the needle and costs them 2 major assets.

 

[polycom]

Go check out the take from whatever hoops journalist you respect. The consensus is that it was either a win win (my leaning) or a fleecing by CLE. You are on an island with your take. It is JSMesque to have the sole contrary opinion, yet remain convinced everyone else crazy.

I think its a win - win but I'm very low on IT. A 5' 9 30 year old PG that is a score first PG no thanks.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

His shooting percentages were actually much worse in the '16 playoffs than the '17 playoffs. He was 39% from the field and 28% from 3. What are your excuses for that performance?

Kyrie is better, much better, younger, signed longer, and oh, also a lot better when it matters; the playoffs.

I think you meant to say "Kyrie is better, much better....as long as he is playing next to Lebron." Let's see how far he can carry a good team with expectations when he is the lead dog.

 

[the Q]

Hilarious, winning the regular season isn't their goal.

He's a marginal upgrade.

RPM backs this.

AS does the other link I just posted.

There is more to basketball than just scoring points.

 

[the Q]

I think its a win - win but I'm very low on IT. A 5' 9 30 year old PG that is a score first PG no thanks.

I didn't want IT long term, but vastly overpaying for Irving wasn't the answer.

 

[polycom]

He's a marginal upgrade.

RPM backs this.

AS does the other link I just posted.

There is more to basketball than just scoring points.

What are you talking about I've been complain about IT lack of ability to play D, please point to where I mentioned scoring?

 

[the Q]

What are you talking about I've been complain about IT lack of ability to play D, please point to where I mentioned scoring?

Irving doesn't play defense either.

They're both overrated.

It's a small upgrade on IT though.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Do the Boston Celtics have enough fire power to make the Finals? | isportsweb

This trade barely moves the needle and costs them 2 major assets.

Where did I say they got better? I said it made sense because they were going to lose IT anyway and Boston isn't a destination for most big free agents. This was the best way to replace a big talent without hoping to lure a free agent.

I think they would have lost to the Cavs before the deal. I think they lose to the Cavs after the deal. But Ainge had to make this deal. Stockpiling picks only gets you so far. You have to put them to work at some point, and look at all the picks he still has in the bag. Mind you, I hate the Celtics.

 

[Walker11]

I think its a win - win but I'm very low on IT. A 5' 9 30 year old PG that is a score first PG no thanks.

Fair enough. I thought you were much lower on the Cavs side.

 

[Jerry1714]

I think you meant to say "Kyrie is better, much better....as long as he is playing next to Lebron." Let's see how far he can carry a good team with expectations when he is the lead dog.

Kyrie played 3 years without LeBron and won rookie of the year and went to 2 AS games.

What has IT done without Stevens?

 

[the Q]

Where did I say they got better? I said it made sense because they were going to lose IT anyway and Boston isn't a destination for most big free agents. This was the best way to replace a big talent without hoping to lure a free agent.

I think they would have lost to the Cavs before the deal. I think they lose to the Cavs after the deal. But Ainge had to make this deal. Stockpiling picks only gets you so far. You have to put them to work at some point, and look at all the picks he still has in the bag. Mind you, I hate the Celtics.

This is exactly why I disagree. Their timeline isn't the next 2 years. It's years 3-4 from now. When the Warriors are getting olders and the role players more expensive and and not contributing as much.

Danny made this move basically going all in.

Also, Kyrie wanted to be the man. he's still going to be in Hayward's shadow here.

GH is a better player, who came here because of his coach, and hasn't been the enemy like Kyrie has been. He's a likeable guy who left for good reasons and didn't mope his way out of town like Kyrie did.

If Kyrie wants to be the man, he's not gonna be that in Boston. He'll still be #2.