OT: Celtics / Cavs megadeal

[tykurez]

As a Celtics fan, going through last year, there is a lot of love for IT, Crowder (and the Nets pick!) - but a 25 year old Kyrie who is signed long term is a no brainer at this point.

 

[awfuldan]

Seems like the Cavs got the best deal possible, right? Assuming that keeping Kyrie wasn't a realistic option.

Next year's Celtics team is gonna be radically different without Bradley, Thomas, and Crowder.

Also the Celtics open next year at Cleveland. That is gonna be a fun game!

 

[the Q]

As a Celtics fan, going through last year, there is a lot of love for IT, Crowder (and the Nets pick!) - but a 25 year old Kyrie who is signed long term is a no brainer at this point.

He's not signed long term. He only has 1 more year than IT. The 3rd year is an opt out.

 

[auror]

That is one guy, and guess what? The Celtics could still pick him with the 1st pick they may have

1st rounder? They can't get a 1st pick, the pick from Lakers is top 1 protected and after 6 protected.

 

[the Q]

1st rounder? They can't get a 1st pick, the pick from Lakers is top 1 protected and after 6 protected.

Yet another Danny mistake. You can't give them 1 protection and make that deal.

 

[Walker11]

Seems like the Cavs got the best deal possible, right? Assuming that keeping Kyrie wasn't a realistic option.

Next year's Celtics team is gonna be radically different without Bradley, Thomas, and Crowder.

Also the Celtics open next year at Cleveland. That is gonna be a fun game!

The Cavs did as well as can be expected. This haul is way better than the Butler haul. Looks like a trade where both teams won, so far at least.

 

[Jerry1714]

I've never heard of this guy and I can't say this article made a good impression on me. Every lottery team landed a potential foundational star? Not buying it. The people who I respect were not as high on last years class. But I haven't really seen any of them weigh in on '18 yet. I was under the impression that Bagley was supposed to be a generational type talent and that Porter would have been in contention for #1 this year. We'll see - I definitely don't hate the trade, just don't like them relinquishing this pick.

On to something we can agree on. I am listening to Dunc'd on Talk about the Kyrie trade right now. Some schlub named Dan Feldman gave the C's an F for the trade. What an idiot. Making the argument that he would possibly rather have the #1 than Irving straight up.

And Kyrie has 2+1 FWIW.

The Five 2018 NBA Draft Prospects You Need to Care About

"However, as we look ahead to the 2018 draft, we do know one thing: Its allure is completely different than that of the draft we witnessed in June. The class won’t have the same depth featured in the 2017 draft, which had a loaded lottery and mid-to-late first-round talent deep into the middle of the second round. Right now, 2018 is looking relatively shallow. "

It is a 5 player draft which the Celtics could still get only 1 or none of.

 

[JSM1970]

No way. He has limited leverage. I think he thinks Nets will be decent, later part of lottery.

This was a great deal. Great.

Yet another Danny mistake. You can't give them 1 protection and make that deal.

 

[the Q]

The Five 2018 NBA Draft Prospects You Need to Care About

"However, as we look ahead to the 2018 draft, we do know one thing: Its allure is completely different than that of the draft we witnessed in June. The class won’t have the same depth featured in the 2017 draft, which had a loaded lottery and mid-to-late first-round talent deep into the middle of the second round. Right now, 2018 is looking relatively shallow. "

It is a 5 player draft which the Celtics could still get only 1 or none of.

And all 5 are better prospects than Tatum.

when's the last time a wing who was a limited athlete was a star?

 

[Jerry1714]

1st rounder? They can't get a 1st pick, the pick from Lakers is top 1 protected and after 6 protected.

Yes, they could draft him 2, like he is projected to go here:

2018 Mock Draft | NBADraft.net

 

[the Q]

No way. He has limited leverage. I think he thinks Nets will be decent, later part of lottery.

This was a great deal. Great.

Bad deal. Awful.

2 player draft and he drops to 3. Where the value fell off like a damn cliff.

Just like in 2016. Same situation with the top 2 being the obvious head and shoulders. Only difference was the value wasn't 3-5 or 6 as a tier, it was like 3-10 this year.

 

[upstater]

The ESPN guy said the Cavs wanted Jaylen Brown, Tatum or the 1st round pick.

I wonder if this is true about Jaylen Brown.

 

[Jerry1714]

And all 5 are better prospects than Tatum.

when's the last time a wing who was a limited athlete was a star?

Paul Pierce.

And excuse me for not taking your word on it.

 

[the Q]

Paul Pierce.

And excuse me for not taking your word on it.

You have the right to be willfully ignorant about players and prospects.

It's your right.

Just don't come at me with your bs.

 

[Walker11]

The Five 2018 NBA Draft Prospects You Need to Care About

"However, as we look ahead to the 2018 draft, we do know one thing: Its allure is completely different than that of the draft we witnessed in June. The class won’t have the same depth featured in the 2017 draft, which had a loaded lottery and mid-to-late first-round talent deep into the middle of the second round. Right now, 2018 is looking relatively shallow. "

It is a 5 player draft which the Celtics could still get only 1 or none of.

I think we can both agree that it makes no sense to critique a draft class until 5-10 years later. We can reengage this discussion in 2022.

 

[Walker11]

The ESPN guy said the Cavs wanted Jaylen Brown, Tatum or the 1st round pick.

I wonder if this is true about Jaylen Brown.

This is extremely hard for me to believe. Who was the source? He is saying the Celtics value Brown over the Nets pick?

 

[the Q]

Paul Pierce.

And excuse me for not taking your word on it.

Scouting report on Pierce in 98, wasn't as limited as your incorrect mind thinks:

Tremendous all-around talent, with several NBA-level skills. Great size and physical strength for a small forward with his quickness; good ability to post up thinner opponents. Has an "old school game" with soft jumper, fluid movements, and adequate court vision. Lightning-quick first step and tremendous leaper with great explosion to the basket. His medium range jump-shot is his most consistent weapon, but three-point ability is definitely there. Has improved on ball-handling since freshman season, but still needs a lot of work to play sm. forward at next level. Rebounds and block shots well when needed. At times, looked bored in college. Played for a tremendous coach at Kansas, (Roy Williams) who also helped groom the likes of Jordan, Worthy, and Dougherty as an assistant at UNC. He's a very polished performer who understands fundamentals are more productive than 360 dunks. Pierce is sure-fire future All-Star who should blossom by his 2nd season.

 

[Jerry1714]

You have the right to be willfully ignorant about players and prospects.

It's your right.

Just don't come at me with your bs.

Ha ok Chad Ford. You are a dofus who provides no facts or analysis and just says "I am a draft expert dont question me". No, you are a wannabe

 

[champs99and04]

I hate this deal for Boston. Then again, I've hated everything they've done this offseason. You've decided to build your core around Kyrie, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford? Good luck with that. This absolutely does not make them better than Cleveland and in two years Kyrie is going to leave.

It's worth mentioning that there is a considerable amount of data that suggests Kyrie is immensely overrated. There is a lot of other information - like the fact that he is absolutely unstoppable in the playoffs and might be the best one on one player in the league - that indicates the opposite. That he is, to my knowledge, the only player in league history - much less a star in his prime - to walk away from LeBron would be a big red flag to me. And for however proven he is as a clutch performer in the playoffs, he still hasn't proven he can do it detached from the wing of the best player of this generation. That seems significant and if it's possible to underrate LeBron, people are sure doing it now.

The IT/Kyrie swap isn't the part I hate, though. I don't even hate losing Crowder, who secretly was probably the biggest winner of anybody in this deal. What I hate is the Brooklyn pick. That was the singular, perpetually tantalizing card that their potential dynasty hinged on. They could have wound up with the above-the-rim big man they desperately needed in Ayton or Bamba. They could have landed Bagley or Porter. Instead their faith will rest upon Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum, the former of whom has yet to display anything more than flashes and the latter of whom figures to be the Kyrie of his position, a gifted scorer perhaps better suited for a previous era.

If everything goes right, they could be the Chris Paul era Clippers. They're not even that good yet, though.

 

[Jerry1714]

Scouting report on Pierce in 98, wasn't as limited as your incorrect mind thinks:

Draft Express scouting report on Tatum wasn't as limited as your incorrect mind thinks: :

STRENGTHS -Nice size and length for a wing at 6' 7” with a 6' 10” wingspan -Continues to make progress on his body – 206 pounds of lean muscle. Has gained 15 pounds since he weighed in at 191 pounds before the 2014 FIBA U17 World Championship, and 40 pounds in the past three years. Big shoulders. -Very good athlete who displays excellent fluidity and can play above the rim both in transition and the half court. Extremely agile and coordinated. Great body control. - Source: DraftExpress - Jayson Tatum DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook ©DraftExpress

I can find scouting reports to back up any point I want.

 

[upstater]

This is extremely hard for me to believe. Who was the source? He is saying the Celtics value Brown over the Nets pick?

Cavs deal Kyrie to Celtics for Isaiah, Nets pick

It is in the video of this ESPN host, Michael ???, talking to Goodman. Michael is the one who said it.

 

[champs99and04]

I've never heard of this guy and I can't say this article made a good impression on me. Every lottery team landed a potential foundational star? Not buying it. The people who I respect were not as high on last years class. But I haven't really seen any of them weigh in on '18 yet. I was under the impression that Bagley was supposed to be a generational type talent and that Porter would have been in contention for #1 this year. We'll see - I definitely don't hate the trade, just don't like them relinquishing this pick.

On to something we can agree on. I am listening to Dunc'd on Talk about the Kyrie trade right now. Some schlub named Dan Feldman gave the C's an F for the trade. What an idiot. Making the argument that he would possibly rather have the #1 than Irving straight up.

And Kyrie has 2+1 FWIW.

I'm surprised by your take on this. From Boston's standpoint, the deal is pretty much Kyrie for the #1 straight up. And I don't think they should have done it.

 

[4in16]

lol @ title

 

[JSM1970]

I would have given up Brown & kept pick

That's me though

The ESPN guy said the Cavs wanted Jaylen Brown, Tatum or the 1st round pick.

I wonder if this is true about Jaylen Brown.

 

[Jerry1714]

I'm surprised by your take on this. From Boston's standpoint, the deal is pretty much Kyrie for the #1 straight up. And I don't think they should have done it.

What? No it is not. At best the pick has a 25% chance of being the 1st pick, and by win projections for next year it has a 15% chance of being the #1 (projected 3rd worst record for Nets)

And even if it was you do it in a heart beat.