Catholic schools leaving this year, taking Big East name

[7774]

It actually perfectly illustrates the point. Great program in the 60s, good success early 70s, maybe a bunch of dumb moves, made a slight comeback from Pitino through Gillen (majority), made more dumb moves, on the way back up.

PC being successful in the 60s and early 70s meant crap because they didn't have the right mold to support it. PC making a Final 4 under Pitino was not followed by the right moves afterwards, same with Gillen in the Elite 8.

Now they are CLEARLY moving in the right direction. Only a moron would look at the past 15 years as a reason why they can't be good, when they are clearly an improved borderline on way of breaking through team.

They will finish BE .500, lose only 1 player, and bring in at least 4 new players next season (2 of whom were Top 100 players, 1 of whom was a Top 150 player, and potentially Ledo, really wildcard, who is a 5 star guy). Even if Ledo doesn't play, they will be ready to break through.

But it takes the right moves to get there, and those are not a guarantee.

No question you guys are improving and moving in the right direction.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

Pitino was Dom Perno's whipping boy. Go look at the record.

Not the point, bro.

Fact is, you can lose what you have if you don't have the right support with it. Having a leadership drive you into a conference with Tulane, Houston, UCF, USF, SMU, East Carolina, etc. isn't exactly a good move.

And heck, what Jimmy C. did was special, but there is no guarantee the golden name UCONN continues to live on in the watered down new BE with a new coach (who has good results this year, but is not what I would call a proven commodity yet). Don't worry, I can say that about Cooley to. It will take a few years for all of those guys to show if they can consistently "get it done."

You want to call the bottom of the C7 bad, what the hell are those teams? The lack of success from PC and others over the past 5 years is incomparable to how awful those teams have been. Those schools struggle through 1 and 2 bid conferences.

 

[upstater]

D2 players can make it to. Shall we include them as well?

Yes, go right ahead. In fact, UConn was top 5 out of all the schools.

Go ahead and sneer, the last time UConn put 4 players in the first couple rounds of the NFL draft was just a couple years ago. And here we are again. Kids like Tyvon Branch are making a name for themselves as Pro Bowl players. Menawhile LT William Beatty of the Giants just hit a home run with a $40 million contract. And this is the type of stuff people were saying below in print (not to mention the NFL network and ESPN guys talking up UConn football last week). And see what the recruits say about watching UConn at the combine:

"In the 20 editions of the NFL draft before UConn moved to the Big East in 2004, the Huskies saw four of their players selected. In the last eight drafts since, 16 players from Connecticut have heard their names called. Sio Moore is expected to join as many as five teammates in continuing the school’s new tradition as a producer of NFL talent."

5. We now know why UConn fielded formidable defenses. It's not surprising to see Bama and FSU and LSU players getting attention, but UConn is hardly viewed as a football factory. But the Huskies ranked No. 10 in the nation in total defense, No. 7 in rushing defense and No. 19 in sacks last season. No question former Huskies defensive coordinator Don Brown deserves plenty of credit, but his former players created a lot of buzz in Indy. Trevardo Williams was the fastest DL; Sio Moore, an OLB, was one of the most impressive defensive players and DB Dwayne Gratz clocked a 4.35 40 unofficially and Blidi Wreh-Wilson, another DB, also looked good. <<

JStevens_9 2:40pm via Twitter for iPhone
For people that don't realize why I chose Uconn. Well go look at the NFL COMBINE. Sio Moore from Uconn shocking alot of people. I'm up NEXT

Richard Lagow3⃣™✅ (@RichardLagow)
2/26/13, 7:29 PM
just received my Strength and nutrition plan from UConn!! Can't wait to start this plan.. the #Huskies are showing it works at the combine!!

mark_may 1:06pm via Facebook
Under the radar combine performance UCONN de Trevardo Williams 30 reps on bench 38" vertical 4.57 40

 

[upstater]

Not the point, bro.

Fact is, you can lose what you have if you don't have the right support with it. Having a leadership drive you into a conference with Tulane, Houston, UCF, USF, SMU, East Carolina, etc. isn't exactly a good move.

And heck, what Jimmy C. did was special, but there is no guarantee the golden name UCONN continues to live on in the watered down new BE with a new coach (who has good results this year, but is not what I would call a proven commodity yet). Don't worry, I can say that about Cooley to. It will take a few years for all of those guys to show if they can consistently "get it done."

You want to call the bottom of the C7 bad, what the hell are those teams? The lack of success from PC and others over the past 5 years is incomparable to how awful those teams have been. Those schools struggle through 1 and 2 bid conferences.

I know it's not a point you like (bro--heh, are you one of those guys?) but I'll say it again: Dom Perno owned Providence College!

 

[Hume]

Don't you think you should really have some recent success before crowing about what you will be in the future? In the past 10 years you have had one team with more wins then UConn has this year (one that was supposed to be a down year for us) and if we win one more game we will have matched that. Start winning games, start making the tournament, and then you have something to brag about. What I find funny is looking back over the past 10 years, we pretty much heard the same thing from Providence fans every year, how they were going to be a lot better and surpass UConn. We are still waiting. How about this next year if your record is better than ours, come around and brag at that point. But until then stop telling us how good you are going to be and recognize that your team has sucked for a long time. The fact that you actually had to go back to the 60's and 70's to give an example of when PC was successful says a lot about your program. Come back when you are actually relevant, not dreaming that you will be.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

Don't you think you should really have some recent success before crowing about what you will be in the future? In the past 10 years you have had one team with more wins then UConn has this year (one that was supposed to be a down year for us) and if we win one more game we will have matched that. Start winning games, start making the tournament, and then you have something to brag about. What I find funny is looking back over the past 10 years, we pretty much heard the same thing from Providence fans every year, how they were going to be a lot better and surpass UConn. We are still waiting. How about this next year if your record is better than ours, come around and brag at that point. But until then stop telling us how good you are going to be and recognize that your team has sucked for a long time. The fact that you actually had to go back to the 60's and 70's to give an example of when PC was successful says a lot about your program. Come back when you are actually relevant, not dreaming that you will be.

Hume, that's not my point, but thanks for playing.

The point being is that it doesn't matter what you did in the past, it matters what you are going to do in the future.

Look at what being good in the past got PC ... A lot of empty promises and lost seasons from poor leadership (people like Herbst who couldn't get their heads out of their asses to survey the bigger picture). You had a school and leadership looking for value and not afraid to make power moves. It happened in the 70s, it happened after Pitino, it happened after Gillen, and it happened again once Welsh was fired.

The fact is, sure PC has been pretty medicore and less than stellar, but you can't keep living on the fact that your resume is full of x Elite 8's and y Final Fours. Houston did that for a while and they are irrelvent now.

In the end, it's how you position yourself in the future, and most of that comes from conference affliation and alignment. The thought that UCONN is in a better place now than PC is, that is a laughable statement. UCONN might be long-term (assuming the expected ACC bid opens up), but not right now.

 

[RichCTBB]

Youre right, PC's multi generational failure is a far more accurate barometer of potential future success.

This

 

[Rico444]

PC could be decent? Have you paid attention since this team got healthy? Outside of the Syracuse debacle. PC has played everyone tough. Add Ledo into the mix and no one will want a piece of this team next year.

We could argue semantics if you want, but losing the guy who's probably your best player off of a team usually doesn't get THAT much better. If Dunn has a breakout year, and Ledo actually gets on the court, I could see a borderline top 25 team, but I wouldn't go crazy.

 

[Rico444]

Note to Boneyard: What happened 20 years, 10 years, 5 years, 5 months ago doesn't mean long-term success. Who cares what you did last year?

This must be the only thing that keeps PC fans going.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

This must be the only thing that keeps PC fans going.

The Catholic 7 will pray for you to find your way to a meaningful conference

 

[Rico444]

In the end, it's how you position yourself in the future, and most of that comes from conference affliation and alignment. The thought that UCONN is in a better place now than PC is, that is a laughable statement. UCONN might be long-term (assuming the expected ACC bid opens up), but not right now.

The problem with this argument is, Providence has been in the best basketball conference in the country for the past 30 years, and yet they've been awful that whole time. Now, they're moving to a better conference situation, but that hasn't helped them for the last 30 years, has it?

The other problem is, you can say all you want that past success doesn't mean anything, but it does in the recruits' minds. With all other factors equal, you ask 100 recruits if they'd rather play at UConn or Providence, and half of them won't even answer they'll be too busy laughing. And hopefully Napier comes back, because if he does (which is seeming more and more likely each day), you can't deny that we're in position to go for #4. And buffoons like you will be scrambling to find another reason why UConn won't dominate New England moving forward.

 

[uconnfan68]

The Catholic 7 will pray for you to find your way to a meaningful conference

How has that praying been working for your program?

 

[businesslawyer]

[quote="NoB1GForYou, post: 521129, member: 3435"

The fact is, sure PC has been pretty medicore [/quote]

Now you've done it. I was fine with you trying to trash UConn when it was down, but I will not sit idly by and watch you trash every mediocre team in the country by comparing them to Providence.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

The problem with this argument is, Providence has been in the best basketball conference in the country for the past 30 years, and yet they've been awful that whole time. Now, they're moving to a better conference situation, but that hasn't helped them for the last 30 years, has it?

The other problem is, you can say all you want that past success doesn't mean anything, but it does in the recruits' minds. With all other factors equal, you ask 100 recruits if they'd rather play at UConn or Providence, and half of them won't even answer they'll be too busy laughing. And hopefully Napier comes back, because if he does (which is seeming more and more likely each day), you can't deny that we're in position to go for #4. And buffoons like you will be scrambling to find another reason why UConn won't dominate New England moving forward.

I agree with your initial premise to a point. PC's administration bought into the "stepping-stone" mentality. Whenever a coach came in that worked, say Pitino or Barnes, it was assumed that they were going to walk when the time came. Then they got coaches like Welsh, who would flash some brillance but was a nut, or Keno who couldn't do anything. PC got some good recruiting classes, they got some good recruits, they just never had the constant ability to string together success. Things are different now though, they have invested in athletes and in coaching. I think things are moving in the right direction (two good recruiting classes and a good transfer team), but it will take a few years to know if we really have a gem.

And while I agree history means something, it doesn't mean everything. Recruits might have laughed because while UCONN was winning NC's, PC was posting 4-14 BE seasons. Things are different now. Players want two things:

1 - To play for a winner
2 - To play against the best

And maybe you will go for #4 next year, and maybe you won't. But what will really hurt is not having a conference home, and having a terrible TV contract. That is more of what I am referring to by being in a better position. Stability means a lot to recruits.

And after posting back-to-back better recruiting classes then the Huskies, the distance between PC and UCONN might not be as great as you think.

 

[upstater]

And maybe you will go for #4 next year, and maybe you won't. But what will really hurt is not having a conference home, and having a terrible TV contract. That is more of what I am referring to by being in a better position. Stability means a lot to recruits.

Have you ever taken a look at UConn's budget?

UConn has been making $3m a year now for 5 years.

It's budget is in the mid-60ms.

It makes $25m on licensing alone.

Making $1m less than the Catholics on TV means nothing (especially when it's banking its share of $18m in BCS money split among 3, and its share of $68m in exit fees and NCAA credits, split among 3, not to mention all the money in exit fees coming from Rutgers, Notre Dame and Louisville.)

Making $10m in TV money less than the ACC will hurt in the distant future. It will never hurt compared to the Catholics.

 

[CAHUSKY]

The Catholic 7 will pray for you to find your way to a meaningful conference

No football and 4 decent hoop teams and you hope we find a meaningful conference. Ok.

 

[The Viking]

I do like the fact that you are saying maybe we will go for #4 and maybe we wont but you are smart enough to not even risk mentioning providence and national championship in the same sentence.

There are some things this guy is saying that makes sense folks.

 

[Rico444]

I agree with your initial premise to a point. PC's administration bought into the "stepping-stone" mentality. Whenever a coach came in that worked, say Pitino or Barnes, it was assumed that they were going to walk when the time came. Then they got coaches like Welsh, who would flash some brillance but was a nut, or Keno who couldn't do anything. PC got some good recruiting classes, they got some good recruits, they just never had the constant ability to string together success. Things are different now though, they have invested in athletes and in coaching. I think things are moving in the right direction (two good recruiting classes and a good transfer team), but it will take a few years to know if we really have a gem.

And while I agree history means something, it doesn't mean everything. Recruits might have laughed because while UCONN was winning NC's, PC was posting 4-14 BE seasons. Things are different now. Players want two things:

1 - To play for a winner
2 - To play against the best

And maybe you will go for #4 next year, and maybe you won't. But what will really hurt is not having a conference home, and having a terrible TV contract. That is more of what I am referring to by being in a better position. Stability means a lot to recruits.

And after posting back-to-back better recruiting classes then the Huskies, the distance between PC and UCONN might not be as great as you think.

Yikes, since when did the Catholic 7 become "the best?" Georgetown and Butler are two damn good programs, better than anything outside of UConn will face, but neither is an elite program. If you want to argue that UConn will lose some recruits to B1G or ACC schools, fine, but to C7 schools? I can't buy that, considering the quality of play won't be that much better with you guys.

 

[UConn Hoops1]

[quote="NoB1GForYou, post: 521129, member: 3435"

The fact is, sure PC has been pretty medicore

Now you've done it. I was fine with you trying to trash UConn when it was down, but I will not sit idly by and watch you trash every mediocre team in the country by comparing them to Providence.[/quote]

Now THAT is funny. In fact it's freakin' hilarious! I think if something happened to college basketball that would allow every team in every conference to have a talent/program upgrade without having to invest anything or, in fact, do anything at all, PeeCee and BCU would find a way to duckk it up. I think that's the definition of "embarrassing" isn't it?

GO HUSKIES!!! BEAT THE BEARCATS!!!

 

[NoB1GForYou]

Yikes, since when did the Catholic 7 become "the best?" Georgetown and Butler are two damn good programs, better than anything outside of UConn will face, but neither is an elite program. If you want to argue that UConn will lose some recruits to B1G or ACC schools, fine, but to C7 schools? I can't buy that, considering the quality of play won't be that much better with you guys.

PC has beaten the almighty UCONN on two back-to-back recruiting classes, barring a big play by UCONN at the end of this recruiting period and PC staying pat.

The C7 is not the best, but the Big East will be a better conference top-to-bottom than the mismatched load of baloney the other side will have.

 

[CAHUSKY]

PC has beaten the almighty UCONN on two back-to-back recruiting classes, barring a big play by UCONN at the end of this recruiting period and PC staying pat.

The C7 is not the best, but the Big East will be a better conference top-to-bottom than the mismatched load of baloney the other side will have.

Congratulations on your recruiting national championship. How have the on court results been?

 

[The Viking]

PC has beaten the almighty UCONN on two back-to-back recruiting classes, barring a big play by UCONN at the end of this recruiting period and PC staying pat.

The C7 is not the best, but the Big East will be a better conference top-to-bottom than the mismatched load of baloney the other side will have.

I tried playing this game with another PC fan and I don't think he had the balls to answer it.

Over the next 10 years, how many 20 win seasons, conf championships and sweet 16 appearances or higher does Providence have over UConn. Because it sounds like you guys have it all figured out and we're just so ducked.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

Congratulations on your recruiting national championship. How have the on court results been?

After fighting through a barrage of injuries early in the season, I would say they have been alright. .500 in the Big East conference with a 2nd year coach who was given really nothing to work with is a pretty good success story. Everything he has gotten he has had to work his ass off for. He had to develop players from which he was initially given 1 BE caliber player. He has had to recruit to a program who had been virtually unsuccessful in the decade before. He was essentially handed the keys to a Pinto.

 

[Rico444]

PC has beaten the almighty UCONN on two back-to-back recruiting classes, barring a big play by UCONN at the end of this recruiting period and PC staying pat.

The C7 is not the best, but the Big East will be a better conference top-to-bottom than the mismatched load of baloney the other side will have.

UConn, Temple, Memphis, and Cincinnati are all borderline top 25 teams year in, year out, with UConn being a strong title contender every 3 or so years. The teams at the bottom are bad, sure, but so are the ones at the bottom of the C7.

And what the hell do individual recruiting classes mean? Providence hasn't been better than UConn on the court the last two years, and likely won't next year. We likely have one player leaving our rotation after this season, how the hell do you expect us to pull in a bunch of top 50 talent? Our next big year to promise playing time is 2014; if you outrecruit us that year, then you have an argument.

 

[NoB1GForYou]

UConn, Temple, Memphis, and Cincinnati are all borderline top 25 teams year in, year out, with UConn being a strong title contender every 3 or so years. The teams at the bottom are bad, sure, but so are the ones at the bottom of the C7.

And what the hell do individual recruiting classes mean? Providence hasn't been better than UConn on the court the last two years, and likely won't next year. We likely have one player leaving our rotation after this season, how the hell do you expect us to pull in a bunch of top 50 talent? Our next big year to promise playing time is 2014; if you outrecruit us that year, then you have an argument.

If Providence is a joke and all of that jazz, then the talent they are pulling in shouldn't even be comparable in theory right? That's the point. UCONN is the top, PC is dirt according to you guys. Yet PC is bringing in legit players under Cooley.

2014 will also be a big year for PC, right now at least 3 openings, possibly 4 or 5 depending on how things play out. Should be interesting.

And again, you can't even compare the bad of the C7 to the bad of the baloney 11. Aren't even comparable. Not endorsing DePaul and others as powerhouses, but if you put them in a round robin against SMU, East Carolina, Tulane, etc., they'd easily boast a winning record.