Calhoun Quotes on Hurley

[ctchamps]

Ok I will rate it #ChiefCertified.

The Jim you see perform on a sideline stage wasn’t the Jim you would see in practice even when he coached. As a retired coach - he is a silent observer - but after practice feedback is very analytical and brutally honest. That’s how Jim and George talked about their own team but it’s understandable that someone with a lot of ego may not want to hear it. I think Calhoun recognizes that.

PM me how you know this information.

 

[TJT]

I fully expect that Hurley will initially listen to Calhoun and they will begin off with a good relationship (as Ollie also did). I however think the looming specter of Calhoun over the program will get to Hurley with time. They will eventually have a disagreement and I predict their relationship will go south. I give them a two year shelf life. I don't know of any coach that likes having a predecessor looking over him. Hurley will be no different than KO in that regard.

 

[donyell34]

I think Jim is to smart to get caught up in this drama.

 

[jleves]

I fully expect that Hurley will initially listen to Calhoun and they will begin off with a good relationship (as Ollie also did). I however think the looming specter of Calhoun over the program will get to Hurley with time. They will eventually have a disagreement and I predict their relationship will go south. I give them a two year shelf life. I don't know of any coach that likes having a predecessor looking over him. Hurley will be no different than KO in that regard.

You're a Friar fan, right?

 

[CL82]

Threatened a lawsuit is what I should have said. Because that’s what it is, along with a wordy FOIA request. Filing a suit would cost him money.

https://media.wtnh.com/nxs-wtnhtv-media-us-east-1/document_dev/2018/04/18/Ltr Herbst 4-3-18 Final_1524088834286_40097719_ver1.0.pdf

He can afford it.

(I agree with your implied position that this letter is largely saber rattling.)

 

[intlzncster]

I fully expect that Hurley will initially listen to Calhoun and they will begin off with a good relationship (as Ollie also did). I however think the looming specter of Calhoun over the program will get to Hurley with time. They will eventually have a disagreement and I predict their relationship will go south. I give them a two year shelf life. I don't know of any coach that likes having a predecessor looking over him. Hurley will be no different than KO in that regard.

You do know JC is going to be coaching another program don't you? Not exactly a lot of time to be a 'looming specter'.

 

[UConnNick]

I guess the reporters who have been covering this could be wrong, but I've seen this reported consistently in one form or another from the start:

The dispute began on March 10, two days after UConn finished its second consecutive losing season under Ollie and announced it was initiating disciplinary procedure to terminate his employment for “just cause.” The school cited an ongoing NCAA investigation into the program.

From a purely PR standpoint, the school would be crazy to drag any personal behavior allegations into the "for cause" argument if they don't absolutely have to. Citing the NCAA rules investigation suggests that they don't need any more justification than that.

 

[UConnNick]

Don't think so, at least not until 180 days have run. As we discussed previously KO was entitled to 180 days notice. If UConn didn't provide him that, then he is entitled to pay in lieu of notice. See below from the CBA:

So delay doesn't put more money in KO's pocket until after that. Note that this also undercuts the argument that due process was somehow side stepped because Hurley was hired prior to the hearings since the contract specifically lists this possibility and provides for a remedy for it, pay in lieu of notice.

True, but if it plays out through the administrative process and arbitration with no satisfactory result, then filing suit in federal court could drag it out for years, not just months. I think that may be Ollie's best if not only legal strategy available to him. He's laughing all the way to his bank right now, and may succeed in perpetuating that for some time to come. The university may have to settle just to stop the bleeding. Ollie may have no leg to stand on in court, but we're still a long way from that, and he's getting paid all along the way there.

 

[Son of Robert]

That falling out was over Glen Miller’s firing.

Glen Miller and KO fell out over the handling of players two years ago unless you buy into the rumor he was fired over the loss of Diallo or Glen emphasized courses when recruits came for official visits and pushed KO into playing zone defense.

That falling out was over Glen Miller’s firing.

Glen Miller and KO fell out over the handling of players two years ago unless you buy into the rumor he was fired over the loss of Diallo or Glen emphasized courses when recruits came for official visits and pushed KO into playing zone defense.

Unlike last season KO was a bear with players two years ago which people have conveniently forgotten. Glen tried to soothe things with players and KO perceived that as undermining his authority.

The AD had a talk with KO after that season and that plus the mass exodus resulted in KO doing a 180 in his handling of players last season.

The irony is those players two years ago would not buy into the importance of defense something JC insisted.

I’m not implying KO had no responsibility with events. He could have handled players better. On the other hand we’ll never know if anyone could have done better with that collective group. Although that won’t stop people from believing their conjecture is fact.

My conjecture is the divorce changed KO and he lost the ability to genuinely relate to his players the way he did the first few seasons as head coach. I hope he can regain that ability but UConn could not afford to wait if/until that happened .

We have hired a proven commodity with Hurley who has a long history of good relationships with players. And Hurley has hired a staff with a known ability to relate to players. Twenty four wins next season is not a pipe dream imo.

Excellent post.

Finally sort of brings it all together in conjunction with @Chief00 post which followed this one. The terrible morale, the transfers, the fake love, the in-house friction, Glen Miller's firing so close to retirement eligibility, credit for the championship (those were mostly Calhoun's players, but KO coached them for 2 years and a title), the ego, overconfidence, and desire to be his own man, the divorce which can change people certain ways at least for some time, the eventual fall from grace, and the inability to recover quickly enough to restore confidence in his coaching and program management.

I've been picking up the pieces for a couple of years now, and these two posts confirming and adding to what I already know seems to tie it all together for the most part.

 

[sledog]

Threatened a lawsuit is what I should have said. Because that’s what it is, along with a wordy FOIA request. Filing a suit would cost him money.

https://media.wtnh.com/nxs-wtnhtv-media-us-east-1/document_dev/2018/04/18/Ltr Herbst 4-3-18 Final_1524088834286_40097719_ver1.0.pdf

He had to go to New London to find someone willing to take his case??

 

[8893]

He had to go to New London to find someone willing to take his case??

Madsen is in Hartford and Parenteau is in New London. They both signed the letter and the firm has an office in each.

 

[pj]

True, but if it plays out through the administrative process and arbitration with no satisfactory result, then filing suit in federal court could drag it out for years, not just months. I think that may be Ollie's best if not only legal strategy available to him. He's laughing all the way to his bank right now, and may succeed in perpetuating that for some time to come. The university may have to settle just to stop the bleeding. Ollie may have no leg to stand on in court, but we're still a long way from that, and he's getting paid all along the way there.

No way UConn pays him beyond the 180 days they are obliged to. In order to get more, he has to win in court, or negotiate a settlement. Dragging it out is no problem for the university if they know they have a winning case.

 

[husky8273]

He had to go to New London to find someone willing to take his case??

one of the most highly regarded firms in CT representing individuals in employment law cases

 

[jimva]

True, but if it plays out through the administrative process and arbitration with no satisfactory result, then filing suit in federal court could drag it out for years, not just months. I think that may be Ollie's best if not only legal strategy available to him. He's laughing all the way to his bank right now, and may succeed in perpetuating that for some time to come. The university may have to settle just to stop the bleeding. Ollie may have no leg to stand on in court, but we're still a long way from that, and he's getting paid all along the way there.

Can't follow your interpretation here. Anything beyond 180 days of pay, which gets over due process, KO would have to prove in court that there was no just cause. Not going to happen.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Jim is always a silent observer at practice, unless asked to say a few words - which is very rare. The issue was that KO did not want any JC post practice feedback and Hurley sees the value in it regarding pickup games which he can’t officially watch.

Calhoun and Blaney are perfectionist and their feedback is brutally honest and exceptionally insightful. But, you need to be open to it, secure and not have an ego that will not accept constructive feedback by others.
The way their brilliant basketball minds work is they tend to focus on what needs to be improved - so you don’t hear a lot - you did this great stuff. It’s more the guy made a lazy cut, did not set the screen correctly, seem out of condition, or not taking the right option on a play.

Danny was raised by Bob Hurley Sr. I think his ego will be quite comfortable with JC providing insights or otherwise.

 

[Yardigan]

I think Jim is to smart to get caught up in this drama.

I think Jim lives for the spotlight of the program he built...don't think he sees it as drama, so much as he sees it as "his."
Will be interesting for sure to see how long Hurley can endure it... Not sure the place is big enough for both egos, but it will be fun to watch, for the hoop upgrade in the beginning, and then...the other stuff...

 

[Chief00]

From a purely PR standpoint, the school would be crazy to drag any personal behavior allegations into the "for cause" argument if they don't absolutely have to. Citing the NCAA rules investigation suggests that they don't need any more justification than that.

Agree, and personal behavior has a low bar with KO’s most likely new employer (NBA) so the mud UConn would get on them by association might be worse?

 

[Chief00]

I think Jim lives for the spotlight of the program he built...don't think he sees it as drama, so much as he sees it as "his."
Will be interesting for sure to see how long Hurley can endure it... Not sure the place is big enough for both egos, but it will be fun to watch, for the hoop upgrade in the beginning, and then...the other stuff...

Admittedly it’s early yet - but I sense they will remain on the same page. I am sure many here will remind me if I am wrong.

 

[Edward Sargent]

I fully expect that Hurley will initially listen to Calhoun and they will begin off with a good relationship (as Ollie also did). I however think the looming specter of Calhoun over the program will get to Hurley with time. They will eventually have a disagreement and I predict their relationship will go south. I give them a two year shelf life. I don't know of any coach that likes having a predecessor looking over him. Hurley will be no different than KO in that regard.

You are wicked smaht

 

[Deadrody]

Bingo. He’s basically confirmed the narrative KO’s lawyers have framed.

Not in the least. No kidding Ollie was removed because he was bad at winning basketball games. Not one person associated with UConn would tell you otherwise. The difference is, he also failed to follow the rules, which was a contractual stipulation, and therefore fired for cause, as well as removed for being bad at coaching basketball.

The two things are separate and only a complete and utter simpleton would not be able to understand that. If Ollie's representation thinks they're going to make hay relying on people failing to make that distinction, he and they are in for a rude awakening.

 

[8893]

Not in the least. No kidding Ollie was removed because he was bad at winning basketball games. Not one person associated with UConn would tell you otherwise. The difference is, he also failed to follow the rules, which was a contractual stipulation, and therefore fired for cause, as well as removed for being bad at coaching basketball.

The two things are separate and only a complete and utter simpleton would not be able to understand that. If Ollie's representation thinks they're going to make hay relying on people failing to make that distinction, he and they are in for a rude awakening.

It’s a legal theory. I don’t expect you to get it; the first day of Ollie’s tenure as our coach was one day too many for you, and you’ve been blinded by your emotions since.

Well, you actually didn’t even post for the first two seasons, when our success despite your hope for the opposite rendered you speechless.

Those were the days.

 

[Deadrody]

Am I the only one who sees how remarkably problematic this is and how dangerous a precedent it sets? Put your thoughts on Ollie to the side for a second and realize that money is literally being put before the reputation of the program and the school, or at the very least configured in such a way as to suggest a conflict of interest.

You're essentially using a neutral party - the NCAA - as an unpaid prosecution team to extort money from an employee. And calling them neutral would be generous when they have every incentive to restore the credibility of a traditional money maker.

What utter and complete nonsense. Seriously, how many times does this need to be explained to people ??

 

[Deadrody]

I love how its assumed that the guy with the history of public spats, beefs, and pettyness had zero to do with the JC-KO relationship going off the rails...

Wow, sometimes this place amazes me. You're really saying that the HOF, 3 time national championship coach, actually being paid by the university as a consultant, somehow needs to defer in ANY way, shape, or form, to a coach in his 5th season that was - literally - handpicked and placed in his job by that same HOF coach ? Are you seriously kidding me here ?

 

[Deadrody]

It’s a legal theory. I don’t expect you to get it; the first day of Ollie’s tenure as our coach was one day too many for you, and you’ve been blinded by your emotions since.

Well, you actually didn’t even post for the first two seasons, when our success despite your hope for the opposite rendered you speechless.

Those were the days.

Just stop. The notion that I have some kind of personal issue with Kevin Ollie or that I hoped he'd fail, let alone that you'd know this, is laughably stupid. I don't know how much sleuthing you did to see how much I did or didn't post in 2013 or 2014, but every single second you spent on that was vastly too much.

Clearly the imagined "personal investment" you think I had in Kevin Ollie's failure is a massive case of projection.

And, no, it's not a legal theory in any recognizable form. It's moronic.

 

[8893]

Just stop. The notion that I have some kind of personal issue with Kevin Ollie or that I hoped he'd fail, let alone that you'd know this, is laughably stupid. I don't know how much sleuthing you did to see how much I did or didn't post in 2013 or 2014, but every single second you spent on that was vastly too much.

Clearly the imagined "personal investment" you think I had in Kevin Ollie's failure is a massive case of projection.

And, no, it's not a legal theory in any recognizable form. It's moronic.

Breathe. It will be okay. There are some things you don’t understand. This is one of them.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Just stop. The notion that I have some kind of personal issue with Kevin Ollie or that I hoped he'd fail, let alone that you'd know this, is laughably stupid. I don't know how much sleuthing you did to see how much I did or didn't post in 2013 or 2014, but every single second you spent on that was vastly too much.

Clearly the imagined "personal investment" you think I had in Kevin Ollie's failure is a massive case of projection.

And, no, it's not a legal theory in any recognizable form. It's moronic.

You seem great.

 

[intlzncster]

Just stop. The notion that I have some kind of personal issue with Kevin Ollie or that I hoped he'd fail, let alone that you'd know this, is laughably stupid. I don't know how much sleuthing you did to see how much I did or didn't post in 2013 or 2014, but every single second you spent on that was vastly too much.

Clearly the imagined "personal investment" you think I had in Kevin Ollie's failure is a massive case of projection.

And, no, it's not a legal theory in any recognizable form. It's moronic.

No dog in all this, but If I'm head BB coach at a major program, and getting paid 3m per, I sure as !@#$ ain't gonna "defer" to anybody. If I'm going to be held accountable for the results of said program, I'm going to be making all the calls. I mean, JC retired; he gave up control to someone else so they could steer the ship. Nobody wants a backseat driver.

That said, I personally wouldn't have shut JC out. And he'd always be welcome.

 

[CL82]

Breathe. It will be okay. There are some things you don’t understand. This is one of them.

Or, maybe, he just didn't agree with your post that Calhoun proved the KO's attorney's case by JC saying that Ollie had to go?

I don't either, FWIW.

 

[8893]

Or, maybe, he just didn't agree with your post that Calhoun proved the KO's attorney's case by JC saying that Ollie had to go?

I don't either, FWIW.

Nope. Not what I said.

Long ago when I first explained the legal theory you said you thought it was an interesting take. It’s not something to agree or disagree with. It’s a potential strategy that depends on the facts.

We still don’t know the facts, or at least I don’t. But all I have said is that when you fire someone for one thing but say that you fired them for something else, that CAN give rise to legal claims stemming from pretext.

One of those claims is breach of the convenant of good faith and fair dealing, which would depend on other factors as well, such as what they knew, when they knew it and what they did about it. How they have treated others who are similarly situated could also play a factor.

I think the word “cause” implies that there was actually a causal relationship and he seems to agree that the cause was the poor performance, not the other things being cited.

I don’t know if it would be successful here but it is a valid legal theory.

Taking JC’s statement for what it suggested seemed to help confirm that he was fired for performance and that the decision was made long before the end of the season, that is all.

 

[Chief00]

I guess the question must be asked then, if firing KO at the end of the season for cause was bad timing after what 25 point loss would it have felt right? You have a lot to pick from.
How many KO defenders would have then said, you should not interrupt the continuity of a season with a disruptive firing. It falls in a category of you can’t win.