Breaking news regarding KO on espn | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Breaking news regarding KO on espn

You're just as bad.

This isn't accurate.

How so? When's the last time Duke's gotten busted for anything? Cory Maguette on record as taking money. Nothing. Duke barely gets investigated for anything.

How about the NCAA just loopholing around the UNC scandal? You honestly think that would have happened for a school like UCONN? If so, then we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
 
How so? When's the last time Duke's gotten busted for anything? Cory Maguette on record as taking money?

How about the NCAA just loopholing around the UNC scandal? You honestly think that would have happened for a school like UCONN? If so, then we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

There was no loophole. The NCAA simply does not have jurisdiction over academic matters on campus. The NCAA likely spent seven figures trying to find a way to get to UNC, but simply didn’t have a way - if they had penalized UNC, they would have been sued and they would have lost.

They have not forgotten how they overreached with Penn State and had to hand Joe Paterno back 100-something victories.
 
He arranged for private workouts for players, which is the more serious violation.

And, and has been mentioned numerous times, the coverup is the problem here. Nothing Ollie did was all that serious, so why lie about it?

He dug his own grave there.

I wanted him gone and feel like his ethical lapses should be an issue. But ut in the big picture it still comes down to who the NCAA chooses to punish and how severely. We know we're going to get dinged every time which leaves no room for error. But thanks for clarifying.
 
There was no loophole. The NCAA simply does not have jurisdiction over academic matters on campus. The NCAA likely spent seven figures trying to find a way to get to UNC, but simply didn’t have a way - if they had penalized UNC, they would have been sued and they would have lost.

They have not forgotten how they overreached with Penn State and had to hand Joe Paterno back 100-something victories.

I've heard that argument. Just don't understand it. If an athlete takes a 'fake' class, common sense would dictate them ineligible. Hence my use of the term 'loophole'. I guess the ncaa's excuse is they offered the classes to everybody,which is the weak 'loophole'.

If the NCAA can't rule on academic matters, then how are they penalizing schools via the APR thing?

As far as Duke goes, Maggette should be ruled ineligible for 98-99,and Duke therefore should have to vacate that season (NCAA runner up). Do you think that'll happen? It won't.

Maggette even signed a sworn statement.
 
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Maybe it's their client.

Somebody posited that he lied to his lawyers about his role. That could very well be true. I'm of the opinion that he might actually believe his own BS.

I dealt with KO's lead lawyer a couple of times, he's smart, successful and has a good reputation, often as a lawyer your skills appear limited because of your client.
 
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I'm not grandstanding, or posturing, or moralizing.

I'm the person that... travels eight hours to and from tournaments without leaving my car...

I'm not planning on boycotting; maybe I'll DM you, but here are a couple thoughts in the meantime:

What you've written is a serious lookalike to grandstanding, posturing, or moralizing. I'm not surprised that it has been read that way.

More importantly, you have got to get out of the car and watch the tournaments . What's the point of such long drives if you end up not seeing the games?

PS - I wrote an impassioned "but I'm right" group email Reply yesterday that went to an unsuspecting & uncomprehending crowd. This gives me good insight in how it was likely received by the whole group, and additional gratitude that my super long Reply to what I got back from the original poster didn't not go Reply All which I'd originally intended. Let a single guy think I'm crazy
And yeah, I'm totally right. Maybe you are too.
 
This.

If you ever read through the NCAA's list of enforcement actions, you'd see that schools self-report these things all the time and no action is taken. (Although the Griffin/Hamilton stuff was pretty troubling; those are signs the train is really getting ready to go off the rails.)

What the NCAA does care about is when you start to have a laundry list of these which starts to show that you really don't much care about compliance. And that's very clear with Ollie - the head coach is supposed to promote an "atmosphere of compliance" whereas ours plainly had a disregard for it.

And then when you mislead the NCAA about these things....you get Bruce Pearl'd.
Do you think UConn gets dinged by this? If so how badly?
 
What would happen if we landed 5 commits and we got a scholarship taken away? Would one just have to decommit? This is probably a stupid question but idc
 
None of the violations are all that big a deal in the whole scheme of things but it just reitreates how he didn't want to put in the work, was cutting corners, and lying about it. Tried to tell all of you he isn't really the guy people thought he is and his hubris will cost him millions. Not getting another penny from UConn.
The old saying is it isn’t the crime that was so bad. It’s the coverup. None of the things he did were that bad but lying about them to UConn and the NCAA was the real problem.
 
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I've heard that argument. Just don't understand it. If an athlete takes a 'fake' class, common sense would dictate them ineligible. Hence my use of the term 'loophole'. I guess the ncaa's excuse is they offered the classes to everybody,which is the weak 'loophole'.

If the NCAA can't rule on academic matters, then how are they penalizing schools via the APR thing?

As far as Duke goes, Maggette should be ruled ineligible for 98-99,and Duke therefore should have to vacate that season (NCAA runner up). Do you think that'll happen? It won't.

Maggette even signed a sworn statement.
Maggatte is ancient history but on the fake classes it’s pretty simple. The university, not the NCAA, determines whether a class is going to “count.” There we’re so many people affected by the fake classes, not only athletes, and the down stream impacts would be so complicated that the University just let the classes stand. For a simple example let’s say you were In your 3rd year of med school but because a class got voided now you lack the credits to have a BA. What does that do to your standing in Med school since your admission was based on having graduated from college? For that matter how do you unaward a degree? The school basically reviewed that and many thousands of other situations and deemed it best to simply accept the credits rather than create a mess. The NCAA for its part had no choice but defer because it cannot review class content. That is a slippery slope which neither the
NCAA nor the schools were willing to accept. It opens you deciding whether an English class at Boise State is comparable to one at Harvard or wherther Professor Smith’s polisci 104 is acceptable while Professor Jones’ section isn’t.
 
There we’re so many people affected by the fake classes, not only athletes, and the down stream impacts would be so complicated that the University just let the classes stand.
Calling BS. Though open to non-athletes, the numbers of non-athletes who actually took them were relatively few. Pretty sure no one is losing their medical license over it.

I think the NCAA could have made a failure to monitor sanction. The school is responsible for reporting APR. The reports they submitted were false. UNC said as much to the accrediting agency, while saying that otherwise to the NCAA. Academic integrity of the student athlete is a core function of the NCAA, or so they say. Letting UNC walk completely delegitimizes the NCAA in my opinion.
 
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Calling BS. Though open to non-athletes, the numbers of non-athletes who actually took them were relatively few. Pretty sure no one is losing their medical license over it.

I think the NCAA could have made a failure to monitor sanction. The school is responsible for reporting APR. The reports they submitted were false. UNC said as much to the accrediting agency, while saying that otherwise to the NCAA. Academic integrity of the student athlete is a core function of the NCAA, or so they say. Letting UNC walk completely legitimizes the NCAA in my opinion.

I think you meant DE-legitimizes the NCAA.
This has been a case of the NCAA looking for a reason to NOT penalize UNC. Since UNC admitted the classes were a fraud then it's not only a GPA issue but also a problem in that without the fraudulent courses the players didn't take the minimum credits required.
The NCAA is hiding behind their "inability to render judgements on academic issues". If the classes are fraudulent they didn't exist and without the credits the players were ineligible and if they're ineligible the games in which they played must be forfeited.
 
Maggatte is ancient history but on the fake classes it’s pretty simple. The university, not the NCAA, determines whether a class is going to “count.” There we’re so many people affected by the fake classes, not only athletes, and the down stream impacts would be so complicated that the University just let the classes stand. For a simple example let’s say you were In your 3rd year of med school but because a class got voided now you lack the credits to have a BA. What does that do to your standing in Med school since your admission was based on having graduated from college? For that matter how do you unaward a degree? The school basically reviewed that and many thousands of other situations and deemed it best to simply accept the credits rather than create a mess. The NCAA for its part had no choice but defer because it cannot review class content. That is a slippery slope which neither the
NCAA nor the schools were willing to accept. It opens you deciding whether an English class at Boise State is comparable to one at Harvard or wherther Professor Smith’s polisci 104 is acceptable while Professor Jones’ section isn’t.
Give me a break, the fake majors were created for athletes.
 
Calling BS. Though open to non-athletes, the numbers of non-athletes who actually took them were relatively few. Pretty sure no one is losing their medical license over it.

I think the NCAA could have made a failure to monitor sanction. The school is responsible for reporting APR. The reports they submitted were false. UNC said as much to the accrediting agency, while saying that otherwise to the NCAA. Academic integrity of the student athlete is a core function of the NCAA, or so they say. Letting UNC walk completely legitimizes the NCAA in my opinion.

My friends at UNC said many non athletes took the classes...
 
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Nope. And apr is a different issue. It says players must be making progress toward a degree. Basically that you need to take x classes but it leaves the decisions about class content and policy such as grading to the schools. it says nothing about what classes or what degree. And no university is going to give the NCAA veto power over what makes a class legitimate. Never ever ever under no circumstances! The NCAA bylaws don’t permit it. The schools won’t permit it. Faculty won’t accept it. And that was the crux of this issue. If you take a class that the school accepts the NCAA cannot and will not overrule. It’s like the building inspector issuing a citation for speeding. He might want to but it isn’t within his mandate. And if the cop who has the authority to give speeding tickets let’s it go, the building guy can’t do anything about it.
 
So what would stop every other school in the country from creating fake classes like this, if there's no penalty from the NCAA? I'm genuinely curious.
 
The actual breakdown of athlete to non-athlete who took the classes was close to 50-50.
Really? I thought I remembered the opposite being true. 50/50 would be an interesting breakdown.
 
So what would stop every other school in the country from creating fake classes like this, if there's no penalty from the NCAA? I'm genuinely curious.
Losing their accreditation(s), which would drastically reduce admission applications (and likely donations/the endowment) and ultimately cause the school to go bankrupt and fold.
 
Nope. And apr is a different issue. It says players must be making progress toward a degree. Basically that you need to take x classes but it leaves the decisions about class content and policy such as grading to the schools. it says nothing about what classes or what degree. And no university is going to give the NCAA veto power over what makes a class legitimate. Never ever ever under no circumstances! The NCAA bylaws don’t permit it. The schools won’t permit it. Faculty won’t accept it. And that was the crux of this issue. If you take a class that the school accepts the NCAA cannot and will not overrule. It’s like the building inspector issuing a citation for speeding. He might want to but it isn’t within his mandate. And if the cop who has the authority to give speeding tickets let’s it go, the building guy can’t do anything about it.
I does require a minimal GPA. If that is being buoyed by fake classes, then the university's report to the NCAA was false. If they didn't know it was false, that is failure to monitor. Also student athletes are required to be full time students. If that was done do to no show, no effort classes, the university either lied or failed to monitor.
 
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That's how I'd describe what UConn's done to Kevin Ollie.

I know people have this narrative in their head that he got fired primarily because he was a bad coach and the violations were the final straw. No. He got fired entirely because of his coaching (which includes his recruiting). That's a key distinction because the violations only ever existed because of the poor coaching. What KO is accused of doing is child's play and everyone knows it. The University simply self-reported the violations because they needed to get out of the contract. And then, like a magic trick, the NCAA - a business partner - levied charges on him. What a coincidence!

"Oh this guy must just not be in on the DM chain. Doesn't he know that Ollie couldn't be bothered to do his job and may have done some other bad things as well?"

Let's hear them then. Have you ever stopped to consider something from someone else's perspective? Have you ever considered that corruption in the real world can stem from legitimate injustice as well? Do you think you always have the whole story when you get mad at how money is spent elsewhere? Or are you just always right? There's a common thread in all of that and it's a lack of transparency. The University is now unequivocally guilty, but hey, it's convenient this time!

"Do you expect me to shed a tear over a rich guy who was bad at his job not getting 10 mil"?

No. I expect you to shed a tear for your own continued involvement in a bureaucracy of which you're the victim. I expect you to begin recognizing the monopoly the school and the NCAA has over YOU. I expect you to recognize the danger in foregoing a democratic process because a couple biased parties decided that they were owed one.

"I dunno man, he broke the contract!"

Go talk to his lawyer then. Truth be told, I don't give a damn about whether Ollie gets this much money or that much money. There are more important things in the world.

I care about my school lying to me. I care about the fact that my school has been victimized by this shady business more than any other. I care about the fact that corruption breeds corruption, and if you don't have the courage to stop the cycle when the arrow lands on you, what's the point of even pretending you have an identity at all?

I don't care about what corporations or institutions can do to technically get away with things. I care about we can do. I care about our fanbase having a voice that represents us and not the status quo. Try being different, try being original. Ask yourselves what you want your role in this process to be. Follow my lead if you want the school to represent you and follow their lead if you want it to represent everything that's wrong with America. If you think you're progressive, if you think you're state's better than Alabama or Georgia because we're more educated, more enlightened? This is a test. Enter gate one and live up to your word or enter gate two and be a hypocrite.

This board has been great to me. I'm sincerely thankful to Tom, the rest of the admins, and everyone else who has made such a difference in my life these last eight years. I respect the intelligence of the people here tremendously and hope to continue learning from you moving forward.

But this isn't a difference in opinion for me, it's a crossroads. I'm not grandstanding, or posturing, or moralizing. I'm simply appealing to your appetite for listening to someone who's a lot more like you and a lot more invested in this matter than the noise coming from the other side.

The thing about this is that we matter so much more than Ollie's lawyers. The system is so stacked against anyone in Ollie's shoes that he's forced to defend himself by denying the allegations rather than mentioning the fact that, oh yeah, this is a business and they added the buyout to his contract because he was being pursued by freaking NBA teams.

We fund all of this and it's time for us to start having a say in what happens. Sure, you *can* ignore it. It's entertainment after all, so you're not going to go to hell for unknowingly ratifying things you can't see.

It's just that, the things you think you're doing in the interest of your school aren't always in the interest of your school. It's in the interest of our school to demonstrate a fighting spirit against the things that have largely ruined college sports. It's in the interest of our school to set the pace for change in our country.

I want you to think for a minute about who this is coming from. I'm not your gender studies professor or a social rights activist. I'm not Jay Bilas or Shaun King. I'm the person that studies hours of game tape, travels eight hours to and from tournaments without leaving my car, and writes mountains of paragraphs on January games, all for nothing. If I'm mad enough about something to leave, you should pay attention.

So I'll make things very simple and encourage you to boycott the program until Ollie is paid his buyout money and/or Benedict and Herbst are removed from their positions at the school. It's not the most important cause but it's the most important cause that's ours. DM me if you want to learn more about why I'm doing this or what we can do to maximize impact. Otherwise, have a nice life.

you are deranged. good businesses make decisions rooted in fact, not emotion.
 
Losing their accreditation(s), which would drastically reduce admission applications (and likely donations/the endowment) and ultimately cause the school to go bankrupt and fold.

I get that, but is UNC facing any sort of investigation that would strip their accreditation?
 
Really? I thought I remembered the opposite being true. 50/50 would be an interesting breakdown.
Considering the student body is probably comprised of about 5% athletes, having 50% in these classes certainly seems like a statistically significant “anomaly”.

>>For nearly two decades, UNC had, according to a university investigation, offered a "shadow curriculum" of so-called "paper classes." These classes, nearly 200 in total, required no attendance and only one paper. Some 3,100 students attended these paper classes, with some 1,500 student-athletes -- ahem, "student-athletes" -- being steered into these classes.

But because these sham classes in the African and Afro-American Studies Department were also open to non-athletes -- and since, yes, slightly more non-athletes took (ahem: "took") these classes than athletes -- the NCAA said this was an academic matter, not an athletic matter. After an interminable investigation, the NCAA determined this was outside of its limited jurisdiction.<<
 
>>For nearly two decades, UNC had, according to a university investigation, offered a "shadow curriculum" of so-called "paper classes." These classes, nearly 200 in total, required no attendance and only one paper. Some 3,100 students attended these paper classes, with some 1,500 student-athletes -- ahem, "student-athletes" -- being steered into these classes.

But because these sham classes in the African and Afro-American Studies Department were also open to non-athletes -- and since, yes, slightly more non-athletes took (ahem: "took") these classes than athletes -- the NCAA said this was an academic matter, not an athletic matter. After an interminable investigation, the NCAA determined this was outside of its limited jurisdiction.<<
Hmm convenient numbers. SMH - this pisses me off every time I think about it.
 
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