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Big 12 Meetings

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Charley Horse said:
Yesterday, I was resigned to the thought that expansion was unlikely. Today, the news of the CCG and the possibility that the Big 12 may go back to divisions makes me think expansion is possible once again. And I'm convinced UConn and Cincy will be 2017 invitees.

To celebrate, I'll indulge in the endlessly entertaining art of the dividing the conference into divisions. My goal is to spread the travel burden evenly among both division.

This Division
1. Texas
2. Tech
3. Baylor
4. K State
5. Cincy
6. UConn

That Division
1. OU
2. Ok State
3. TCU
4. Kansas
5. Iowa St
6. West Virginia

Permanent cross-divisional rivalries between like numbers.

So... in my plan, although UConn would have to travel to Texas one or two times a year but always get to play Cincy and WVU every year. Probably one at home and one away.
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Unfortunately, UConn's best strength compared to other candidates was to expand a B12 network in the populous Northeast. No B12N takes away UConn's strength and might wind up making football / football recruiting the top factors again, so boosting UCF/USF, BYU, maybe Cincy. If the B12 expands by two without a network... it's probably really bad for UConn. I think UConn probably wants either no B12 expansion, or expansion by 4.
 
Charley Horse said:
Yesterday, I was resigned to the thought that expansion was unlikely. Today, the news of the CCG and the possibility that the Big 12 may go back to divisions makes me think expansion is possible once again. And I'm convinced UConn and Cincy will be 2017 invitees.

To celebrate, I'll indulge in the endlessly entertaining art of the dividing the conference into divisions. My goal is to spread the travel burden evenly among both divisions.

This Division
1. Texas
2. Tech
3. Baylor
4. K State
5. Cincy
6. UConn

That Division
1. OU
2. Ok State
3. TCU
4. Kansas
5. Iowa St
6. West Virginia

Permanent cross-divisional rivalries between like numbers.

So... in my plan, although UConn would have to travel to Texas one or two times a year they would always get to play their closest rivals (Cincy and WVU) every year. Probably one at home and one away.
Expand ...
What I like best about this is our possible annual cross division rivalry with Iowa State. ;)

Actually, as others have said, I'll take anything, just get me the #}^*% out of the AAC!
 
Charley Horse said:
Yesterday, I was resigned to the thought that expansion was unlikely. Today, the news of the CCG and the possibility that the Big 12 may go back to divisions makes me think expansion is possible once again. And I'm convinced UConn and Cincy will be 2017 invitees.

To celebrate, I'll indulge in the endlessly entertaining art of the dividing the conference into divisions. My goal is to spread the travel burden evenly among both divisions.

This Division
1. Texas
2. Tech
3. Baylor
4. K State
5. Cincy
6. UConn

That Division
1. OU
2. Ok State
3. TCU
4. Kansas
5. Iowa St
6. West Virginia

Permanent cross-divisional rivalries between like numbers.

So... in my plan, although UConn would have to travel to Texas one or two times a year they would always get to play their closest rivals (Cincy and WVU) every year. Probably one at home and one away.
Expand ...

Where can I sign?
 
Charley Horse said:
Yesterday, I was resigned to the thought that expansion was unlikely. Today, the news of the CCG and the possibility that the Big 12 may go back to divisions makes me think expansion is possible once again. And I'm convinced UConn and Cincy will be 2017 invitees.

To celebrate, I'll indulge in the endlessly entertaining art of the dividing the conference into divisions. My goal is to spread the travel burden evenly among both divisions.

This Division
1. Texas
2. Tech
3. Baylor
4. K State
5. Cincy
6. UConn

That Division
1. OU
2. Ok State
3. TCU
4. Kansas
5. Iowa St
6. West Virginia

Permanent cross-divisional rivalries between like numbers.

So... in my plan, although UConn would have to travel to Texas one or two times a year they would always get to play their closest rivals (Cincy and WVU) every year. Probably one at home and one away.
Expand ...
Wouldn't WVA have to be in the same Div with Cinny and UConn
 
I don't buy any of the BS on this board. The only way we are getting into the Big 12 is efforts like this from @UConnTrumbull.
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Does the Big 12 need to go to divisions in order to have a CCG?

I don't know the answer so I'm hoping that someone can help me out here.

If the answer is 'no', then I think the decision to go to divisions is an indicator that expansion might still happen. Right now, they can play a round robin and then have the top two teams meet for a rematch in a CCG. If they go to divisions there is no guarantee that the top two teams meet in a CCG.
 
BlueHen said:
Does the Big 12 need to go to divisions in order to have a CCG?

I don't know the answer so I'm hoping that someone can help me out here.

If the answer is 'no', then I think the decision to go to divisions is an indicator that expansion might still happen. Right now, they can play a round robin and then have the top two teams meet for a rematch in a CCG. If they go to divisions there is no guarantee that the top two teams meet in a CCG.
Expand ...
No, they don't need divisions as long as they play round robin.
 
If I understand correctly, the Big 12 did not get a network, did not expand, is going to a division format and will play a CCG.

None of the above do anything to improve the long term stability of the conference. I expect that if the Big 12 wants to expand they won't tell us until it is a done deal and all of the negotiations are done. I didn't think that would happen this week, so I am not shocked at yesterdays statements.

It is possible that the Big 12 is not expanding, but I think it is also possible that expansion is happening and the Big 12 is in the early stages of negotiations with potential additions.

Even of the Big 12 doesn't expand, the fact that they didn't address long term conference stability issues means that there is potential for more CR movement as the GOR's get closer to expiring. UConn needs to continue to make itself more attractive in the mean time. Waiting sucks, but I don't think we are doomed just yet.
 
BlueHen said:
If I understand correctly, the Big 12 did not get a network, did not expand, is going to a division format and will play a CCG.

None of the above do anything to improve the long term stability of the conference. I expect that if the Big 12 wants to expand they won't tell us until it is a done deal and all of the negotiations are done. I didn't think that would happen this week, so I am not shocked at yesterdays statements.

It is possible that the Big 12 is not expanding, but I think it is also possible that expansion is happening and the Big 12 is in the early stages of negotiations with potential additions.

Even of the Big 12 doesn't expand, the fact that they didn't address long term conference stability issues means that there is potential for more CR movement as the GOR's get closer to expiring. UConn needs to continue to make itself more attractive in the mean time. Waiting sucks, but I don't think we are doomed just yet.
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We're not doomed yet, but we are heading back in a doom-by-doom-west direction. The B12 is not negotiating anything with potential additions right now. They received all of the slick brochures and binders and DVDs from every G5 school in the country and probably ones from Canada and Mexico, more importantly they received the consultants data. And they're going to disregard all that and probably take whoever has the best football record from the past 3 seasons or the highest concentration of 5 star recruits currently enrolled in high school. Or take nobody. Let's hope it's the latter. Boren was UConn's only hope, since he was the one who would drop a line about academics, research and value to a network, and now Boren's been more or less turned into a force ghost like Obi-Wan by Texas.
 
BlueHen said:
Does the Big 12 need to go to divisions in order to have a CCG?

I don't know the answer so I'm hoping that someone can help me out here.

If the answer is 'no', then I think the decision to go to divisions is an indicator that expansion might still happen. Right now, they can play a round robin and then have the top two teams meet for a rematch in a CCG. If they go to divisions there is no guarantee that the top two teams meet in a CCG.
Expand ...
Yes i think they do need divisions for a championship game. IIRC the recent vote allowed for a conference championship with only 10 schools but went against the ACC's attempt to pick the teams for the championship game without using divisions.

Edit: NCAA vote makes it possible for Big 12 to hold football title game

Never mind according to the article divisions are not necessary: "There's also the question of how to pick which teams would play for the Big 12 championship. In every other conference, division winners meet. The Big 12 has shown no interest of having two, five-team divisions. Theoretically, the CFP Rankings could be used to settle tiebreakers for a spot in the championship game, but those rankings don't come until Tuesday night of championship week."
 
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husky10 said:
Yes i think they do need divisions for a championship game. IIRC the recent vote allowed for a conference championship with only 10 schools but went against the ACC's attempt to pick the teams for the championship game without using divisions.
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No divisions necessary if the conference plays a round robin. I sound like a broken record.
 
Confirming the narrative that came out of the end of the meetings: Boren Says Big 12 Expansion Talks Cooling Off

“We may meet again later in the summer, I don’t anticipate moving on expansion at that time,” Boren said. “I think it’s unlikely, now I don’t think it’s impossible, nothing is impossible when we all get together and put our heads together or if somebody comes forward that’s just a great star that wants to join the conference… but there’s no longer the urgency on expansion.”
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junglehusky said:
Confirming the narrative that came out of the end of the meetings: Boren Says Big 12 Expansion Talks Cooling Off
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The narrative is not that the Big12 has no urgency at this time to expand. The narrative is that tv execs flat out said there is no money or demand for a Big12 network. Boren sounds like a man defeated, trying to paint a decent spin on an unwanted outcome. He knows that by 2026 OU will be in a new conference.
The narrative is that the Big12 was holding on for their life and Fox/ESPN chose to pull the plug.
 
They need to expand with the best schools in the best markets. The other members need to protect themselves. Unreal how dopey they are.
 
Hoophound said:
They need to expand with the best schools in the best markets. The other members need to protect themselves. Unreal how dopey they are.
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UConn has the best brand / market / school combo of any G5 school. The problem is the existing brands / markets / schools in the B12 are for the most part barely better than an upper tier AAC school. It is now clear, and it came straight from the horse's mouth (Boren) that nobody is interested in starting a cable network that would rely on Kansas State, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech - those schools right there would be 1/3 of the content of a 12-team Big 12. What can those schools really do to protect themselves? Adding UConn / Cincy or UCF will not protect that league from blowing up when UT and OU decide to bail. If you still trust Flugar's OU sources, supposedly those two schools, while bickering over Boren's public comments, are still committed to playing each other and maintaining ties between the schools. So maybe in 2024 they'll shop themselves as a package deal. If that's what they're going to do there is nothing the TCU's and TTU's can do to stop them.
 
It is the defining of "best schools" that folks won't agree on.....One guys best is another guys meh.

Markets may be important in a carriage fee model....or they may not be as in the SEC's relatively small markets (Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Starkeville, Oxford, Columbia...).

Football brand may be important or may not be...same with basketball.

Academics may be important....or may not be.

Contiguity may be important...may not be.

Prior long relationship with a conference may be important...and may not be.

I guess that we will only see when things really shake out.
 
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I disagree. By taking the best schools available, the B12 schools that will be left behind will still have a conference with traditional rivals. Otherwise, they'll have to hope they get in the AAC, which can't take all of them and which has Tulane, Tulsa and ECU.

Right now, those 8 plus UConn, BYU, Cincy and Houston or USF and it is definitely a power conference. BTW, now that Texas is likely on the way out, Houston is a lock if they expand.
 
junglehusky said:
Confirming the narrative that came out of the end of the meetings: Boren Says Big 12 Expansion Talks Cooling Off
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Honestly, another year of UConn football before any P5 conference even really thinks about expansion is a good thing. This past year we improved but the narrative was still that UConn does nothing to move the needle in football. A 8-4 year this season would begin to change that narrative.
 
If you take out Texas and OU from the Big 12, the remains will not be a P5 conference and there will be contraction - to a P4. If FSU and Clemson leave the ACC- you could have a P3. Greed will do that.
 
If you read between the lines Boren is asking schools like FSU and Clemson to make the jump. He's asking for stars to come forward and singles out the ACC as a conference that the Big 12 is surpassing in terms of moneys paid out per school. He mentions the Pac 12 but really sticks a thumb in the eye of the ACC.

Question - have they decided yet whether or not to do the CCG? Would they really go 2 divisions of 5??

They can always add 2 and force ESPN/Fox to pony up 50 mil per year into the Big 12 coffers to make it two divisions of 6.

But I think its fairly obvious that Boren doesn't give a rats ass about UConn.
 
billybud said:
It is the defining of "best schools" that folks won't agree on.....One guys best is another guys meh.

Markets may be important in a carriage fee model....or they may not be as in the SEC's relatively small markets (Tuscaloosa, Auburn, Starkeville, Oxford, Columbia...).

Football brand may be important or may not be...same with basketball.

Academics may be important....or may not be.

Contiguity may be important...may not be.

Prior long relationship with a conference may be important...and may not be.

I guess that we will only see when things really shake out.
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While I agree that conferences often have different motivations for why they expand, ultimately the key reason is $. Where I disagree with your post is on The SEC. While there was little they could do about the minor markets of existing members, as soon as The SEC Network was a reality all future members would be based on a carriage fee model. Same as in The Big 1o. Also the same reason you'll never see a redundant media market added like Clemson or FSU.
 
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Despite all of the fantastical talk...I don't think that you will have FSU, Clemson, or like GOR bound programs going anywhere for the next decade.

The GOR that was finally obtained through an FOIA request by a determined lawyer fan, was reviewed and thoroughly discussed on Warchant. There is no out for not having a network. A network is not even mentioned in the GOR.

The GOR states that only the written provisions contained in the contract are operable and that no other provision exists.

I would love other options. But wanting them and having them are different things. FSU is not going to walk away from the conference wirh the GOR in place.

Why? Because it can't take that risk. Even if it had a 50/50 chance to avoid the sanction, that's too much risk. And it can't leave without a place to go and no one would take a school that may not own any of its own media rights for the next decade.

No football conference loves an FSU or Clemson that much. And they shouldn't. It would be a ridiculously stupid business risk.

Now, when the GORs wind down...then that is an iguana of another color.

 
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