B1G, ACC battle for New York

[ctchamps]

Of course most people in any state would prefer a Gamecock

In this state there is no gaming the system. They like one syllable words and they definitely shout out their "Clocks" at games and in public. L added to avoid censorship.

 

[btstimpy]

I don't know anything about Florida but my guess would be you are correct and that state would swing according to the relative success of FSU and Florida. But I live in South Carolina and have watched SC Clemson games in many parts of the state at sports bars. The ratio of fans is between 70-80% USC over Clemson at the sports bars which is consistent with what people keep telling me when I do my informal survey of how the state trends.

What is unique about the 20-30% fans in SC that support Clemson is that they are every bit as passionate as the majority of fans supporting the USC teams. They don't have any sense of inferiority and, by their stadium numbers, back up their passion by placing people in the seats.

My uneducated understanding of the support ratio being what it is has less to do about success than about the cultural attitude and demographics of the state. USC is perceived by the average South Carolinian as the every man's university. Clemson is perceive as being more elite. And SC is still in a rebellious cultural attitude towards anything elite and the GDP in the state is in the last percentile of the U.S.

In another post I felt the ACC had the markets of NC, Virginia, Md and Fl if the ACC teams in Florida did better than the SEC team. The rest of the markets were SEC. Three and one half states does not make a case for developing an ACC network especially since the most important 1/2, Florida, is whimsical. And this is why many of us in this forum are relating to you and @bstimpy the mistakes Swofford and the ACC have made by not taking UConn and Rutgers. The ACC could have ultimately, if RU, UConn and BC improve a modicum in football and do some of the things I pointed out in the other post, get NJ, most of the populous areas of NY, and NE. I would have added RU and UConn first and then considered Syracuse to shore up NY.

But the ACC wet for the s e xy short term fix instead of the smarter long term fix.

I agree that the ACC should invite UConn. With Rutgers I don't agree. Rutgers has not been relevant in college athletics in at least half a century. And they are not likely to start being relevant any time in the future. I know that the Rutgers fans on here don't want to hear this, but it is fact. Rutgers is especially not relevant in New York City. Jim Delaney witnessed this when he last visited Rutgers. But he's after his New Jersey cable boxes.

South Carolina is not relevant in the SEC. They have been there for 20 years and never threatened to win a football or basketball championship. Only in the recent past has Steve Spurrier gotten them noticed, but just barely. When he retires, they'll go back to obscurity. They did finally win national championships in baseball. I'll give them that, but where have they been all these years?

 

[billybud]

I hear what you are saying, but somehow I don't see the SEC as compact. It's 1000 miles between Gainsville, FL and Columbia, MO for a SEC East game. It's 900 miles between Columbia, SC and Columbia, MO. You must be thinking Auburn vs Alabama. That is compact, but so is UNC vs NCState and UVA-VT. I think that if the ACC were to get to 16 teams, it could reorganize the division for more regional competition. I'm glad Clemson has elevated its game enough to make the FSU-Clemson games fun for fans.

BC should support UConn's membership for just this very point of proximity.

You have to look at the divisions...re distance:

You can drive in a day (eight hours or less) from Ole Miss to Miss State...to LSU...to Bama and Auburn....to Arkansas, and Mizzou.

From Georgia...to Florida, Bama, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Vanderbilt

 

[ctchamps]

I have never been on a Cuse board...I have posted 13,000 plus posts over the last 10 years on the WVU board where you may have seen my handle.

My home board is FSU's Warchant. Syracuse and Rutgers might as well be as far away as the frozen tundra of Siberia to the average north Florida Seminole fan. We are very much attuned to what is going on in the SEC. Tallahassee's northern city limit is 16 miles from the Georgia line and about 50 miles to the Alabama border. Many of our families migrated to north Florida from Georgia and Alabama. I was born in Alabama (my birth certificate registers me as a Bama fan). You are registered at birth as an Auburn or Bama guy.

I was raised in Pensacola, went to school at FSU and Wisconsin and have lived in Tallahassee for decades.

I don't know what to make of the ACC any more. When you have teams that are spread from near the Canadian border to just an inner tube ride from Cuba, it just makes no geographic sense for fans. I have no feeling one way or another about Syracuse...I only know that the legendary Jim Brown played for them.

I understand your feelings. Lots of us supporting UConn have the same preference to keep games regional. Most of us in this forum are putting our personal emotional preferences on the back burner and are discussing the changes that have taken place in the landscape of big time college sports.

Like it or not the ACC is dominate in only 3 markets (4 before the loss of MD). The PAC, the SEC, and the B!G have far more markets that they dominate. Hence each one of those conferences will thrive with the way media developments are taking place. The ACC and the Big 12 will survive for now, but they have lost out in the race for regional market control to those other three conferences. It is only a matter of time the ACC and the Big12 fall apart. That might be good for you as a Seminole Fan if you get into the SEC when things break up but it could be worse for you if you get into the B!G or are stuck in some hybrid ACC-Big12 combo.

A strategized ACC conference with a northeast-southeast pairing was your best bet unless of course you know for certain you can get into the SEC. That's a gamble.

 

[btstimpy]

You have to look at the divisions...re distance:

You can drive in a day (eight hours or less) from Ole Miss to Miss State...to LSU...to Bama and Auburn....to Arkansas, and Mizzou.

From Georgia...to Florida, Bama, South Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Vanderbilt

Perhaps reorganizing divisions in the ACC would be prudent to have FSU playing schools closer. I can drive 8 hours or less from Richmond to 12 other ACC schools. FSU, Miami, and Notre Dame are the only ones farther. So I look at the ACC as compact. I guess it depends where you are as to how you view it.

 

[UConn Dan]

In this state there is no gaming the system. They like one syllable words and they definitely shout out their "Clocks" at games and in public. L added to avoid censorship.

I work for a company that markets, among other things, sports collectibles. I recall getting an email from USC/CLC a couple of years ago that stated that all licensees should cease and desist the use of the "C OCKS" verbiage and logos. I thought that was very funny - must have been a tough email to write.

 

[ctchamps]

I agree that the ACC should invite UConn. With Rutgers I don't agree. Rutgers has not been relevant in college athletics in at least half a century. And they are not likely to start being relevant any time in the future. I know that the Rutgers fans on here don't want to hear this, but it is fact. Rutgers is especially not relevant in New York City. Jim Delaney witnessed this when he last visited Rutgers. But he's after his New Jersey cable boxes.

South Carolina is not relevant in the SEC. They have been there for 20 years and never threatened to win a football or basketball championship. Only in the recent past has Steve Spurrier gotten them noticed, but just barely. When he retires, they'll go back to obscurity. They did finally win national championships in baseball. I'll give them that, but where have they been all these years?

And that is why I believe when it is all said and done the ACC will struggle to survive. Your position resonates with my emotional preferences. But that viewpoint has been the demise of many business models.

Yale will always be playing Harvard and Princeton. Most of the members of the Ivy league are immune to the machinations of big time college sports. Virginia, UNC, and Duke will survive no matter how many times the ACC shoots itself in the foot. But the ACC is in jeopardy. It took almost forty years before bankruptcy, but the handwriting was on the wall that GM was in trouble beginning in the 80's.

If you're a fan that doesn't have much time to root for things than it isn't important to concern yourself with the long term future of the ACC. Get the sexiest programs and get the greatest bragging rights you can. But if you chose to look at the ACC as a conference being important for the university you root for, than you might view things differently. Most of us in this forum are looking out 20 -30 years from now as well as over the next 5-10 years. And thus we are supporting Rutgers as the better play after the 10 year period if not sooner.

And yes South Carolina isn't the poster child for states but it is significant when talking about viewership.

 

[btstimpy]

And that is why I believe when it is all said and done the ACC will struggle to survive. Your position resonates with my emotional preferences. But that viewpoint has been the demise of many business models.

Yale will always be playing Harvard and Princeton. Most of the members of the Ivy league are immune to the machinations of big time college sports. Virginia, UNC, and Duke will survive no matter how many times the ACC shoots itself in the foot. But the ACC is in jeopardy. It took almost forty years before bankruptcy, but the handwriting was on the wall that GM was in trouble beginning in the 80's.

If you're a fan that doesn't have much time to root for things than it isn't important to concern yourself with the long term future of the ACC. Get the s e xiest programs and get the greatest bragging rights you can. But if you chose to look at the ACC as a conference being important for the university you root for, than you might view things differently. Most of us in this forum are looking out 20 -30 years from now as well as over the next 5-10 years. And thus we are supporting Rutgers as the better play after the 10 year period if not sooner.

And yes South Carolina isn't the poster child for states but it is significant when talking about viewership.

We can revisit this in 10 years, and Rutgers will remain insignificant. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know some laughed yesterday when I posted that Temple could provide to the ACC everything that Rutgers does to the Big Ten and more since Temple can at least win a basketball game. I still believe it. I don't know if the ACC would go that route, but it's available to them.

 

[JayRU09]

This topic is making my head hurt.

RU has had the backing of the state for decades? The amount of money the state gives us is the same as the 1980s.

We never had a coach until Schiano that could actually recruit, and for him it took until 2009 to actually have a top 30 class. And it took until 2011 for him to really get in with the top NJ HS programs.

As for the future, well, 2011 we had a top 30 class, 2012 we had a top 25 class, 2013 was a down year with a top 50 class (Flood's first class and mostly pre-B1G), and we're currently sitting with a top 20 class that should get better today with Hilliman committing (hopefully).

Take out the outlying years of 2006 and 2010 and our win totals since 2005 have been: 7,8,8,9,9,9.

The future seems bright, and it doesn't take a visionary to see that. Talent helps a lot. We have to make sure our coaches are up to par, but at least we have one part of the equation coming in. We're recruiting better than almost all of the B1G. No reason we can't make noise in a few years, if not next year.

 

[NickyNewark]

I have never been on a Cuse board...I have posted 13,000 plus posts over the last 10 years on the WVU board where you may have seen my handle.

My home board is FSU's Warchant. Syracuse and Rutgers might as well be as far away as the frozen tundra of Siberia to the average north Florida Seminole fan. We are very much attuned to what is going on in the SEC. Tallahassee's northern city limit is 16 miles from the Georgia line and about 50 miles to the Alabama border. Many of our families migrated to north Florida from Georgia and Alabama. I was born in Alabama (my birth certificate registers me as a Bama fan). You are registered at birth as an Auburn or Bama guy.

I was raised in Pensacola, went to school at FSU and Wisconsin and have lived in Tallahassee for decades.

I don't know what to make of the ACC any more. When you have teams that are spread from near the Canadian border to just an inner tube ride from Cuba, it just makes no geographic sense for fans. I have no feeling one way or another about Syracuse...I only know that the legendary Jim Brown played for them.

Damn Billybud you must be at least my age (61) to remember that LI kid?I was in grammar school when he was at SU and to me even he's old!We in NJ always admired him tho as he played the way we did.....with rage lol!!After banning the Deacon Jones headslap and the Nitchske "clothesline tackle" our FB looks almost feminized?Whats next?flags in our backpockets?or 2 hand touch?Were a rule or 2 away from destroying Americas greatest and most masculine sport(hockey and boxing excepted)!! I'm a little pissed at FSU for grabbing Josue Matias from his touching RU commitment story in the NJ newspapers with his parents saying we were the only school that stood by him when he was injured in 1st game his Sr year then flipping the day b4 he could sign?What was up with that?We up North know how big football has become in the south as so much of the modern south are now transplanted Northerns and Midwesterners.I was stationed in Beaufort,SC in the corps in the late 60s and met a lot of "old time" Southerners who seem proud almost to arrogance but its better than the alternative!The South has a proud history and earned it during the civil war valiantly but "rise again on the FB field" lol!I hope you give Cuse a warm welcome when you meet and they really expect to give Clemson a warn reception this year at the dome.I wish we up here were as loyal to our states as you guys down south are.Im glad your curious enough to give Uconn and the BY an ear as most down there don't perceive NE FB as good as it is.....they can play IMO with almost anybody!I remember RU playing UF in Gainesville as 29 pt underdogs in the 80s and playing them to a draw with 1AA type players!

 

[NickyNewark]

We can revisit this in 10 years, and Rutgers will remain insignificant. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know some laughed yesterday when I posted that Temple could provide to the ACC everything that Rutgers does to the Big Ten and more since Temple can at least win a basketball game. I still believe it. I don't know if the ACC would go that route, but it's available to them.

Funny....thats how we perceive most middling ACC FB teams?Perception is funny.You seem less informed tho than the average ACC fan?

 

[NickyNewark]

I agree that the ACC should invite UConn. With Rutgers I don't agree. Rutgers has not been relevant in college athletics in at least half a century. And they are not likely to start being relevant any time in the future. I know that the Rutgers fans on here don't want to hear this, but it is fact. Rutgers is especially not relevant in New York City. Jim Delaney witnessed this when he last visited Rutgers. But he's after his New Jersey cable boxes.

South Carolina is not relevant in the SEC. They have been there for 20 years and never threatened to win a football or basketball championship. Only in the recent past has Steve Spurrier gotten them noticed, but just barely. When he retires, they'll go back to obscurity. They did finally win national championships in baseball. I'll give them that, but where have they been all these years?

You can't be serious ....your either naive or ignorant or 12 years old!You can't believe this anti RU crap and expect to be taken seriously?Delany was born and raised in NJ he didnt need to "come to NY" to understand anything its just a fact StimpyCuse!RU is #1 FB team in NYC and local area not to mention the Philly area and all points between!They've been in talks for over a decade!Where are your links or facts?

 

[NickyNewark]

I love StimpyCuse coming here with an obvious agenda thinking we just fell off the turnip truck and posing as a Va fan(terrible FB team)and hiding behind that Cavalier avatar lol!!Go look for the less informed where you should be right at home !!

 

[uconndogs]

I find it interesting that RU, Virginia and Cuse fans come to this board on such a regular basis........tells me all the talk on their boards about UCONN now being irrelevant due to CR is total bullsh**

 

[btstimpy]

I find it interesting that RU, Virginia and Cuse fans come to this board on such a regular basis........tells me all the talk on their boards about UCONN now being irrelevant due to CR is total bullsh*

I come to this board and others that discuss CR because it is interesting to me, and I'd like to see UConn in the ACC at some point. I don't discuss CR on the Virginia board much because no one is interested. We don't have a CR board or much CR discussion going on.

 

[uconndogs]

Whatever floats your boat man..........

 

[Adios]

I do think the ACC's approach in all this as it has come to be is interesting. It is focused on Virginia and the Carolinas as the center and spreads out from there. It is an economic plan that works. But the B1G will always remain a step ahead for reasons mentioned before, they are land-grant schools. The ACC and B1G will always remain an interesting battle but for us, the preferred destination is obvious. The ACC is not a fallback to complain about.

 

[JayRU09]

I come here because I'm also a fan of UConn. I know that as of now you are not irrelevant. I view you as the last piece to the NYC puzzle if the ACC/B1G decide to play that game.

 

[Adios]

I find it interesting that RU, Virginia and Cuse fans come to this board on such a regular basis........tells me all the talk on their boards about UCONN now being irrelevant due to CR is total bullsh*

You are also missing Minnesota, Iowa and Ohio State. At least.

 

[billybud]

Damn Billybud you must be at least my age (61) to remember that LI kid?I was in grammar school when he was at SU and to me even he's old!We in NJ always admired him tho as he played the way we did.....with rage lol!!After banning the Deacon Jones headslap and the Nitchske "clothesline tackle" our FB looks almost feminized?Whats next?flags in our backpockets?or 2 hand touch?Were a rule or 2 away from destroying Americas greatest and most masculine sport(hockey and boxing excepted)!! I'm a little pissed at FSU for grabbing Josue Matias from his touching RU commitment story in the NJ newspapers with his parents saying we were the only school that stood by him when he was injured in 1st game his Sr year then flipping the day b4 he could sign?What was up with that?We up North know how big football has become in the south as so much of the modern south are now transplanted Northerns and Midwesterners.I was stationed in Beaufort,SC in the corps in the late 60s and met a lot of "old time" Southerners who seem proud almost to arrogance but its better than the alternative!The South has a proud history and earned it during the civil war valiantly but "rise again on the FB field" lol!I hope you give Cuse a warm welcome when you meet and they really expect to give Clemson a warn reception this year at the dome.I wish we up here were as loyal to our states as you guys down south are.Im glad your curious enough to give Uconn and the BY an ear as most down there don't perceive NE FB as good as it is.....they can play IMO with almost anybody!I remember RU playing UF in Gainesville as 29 pt underdogs in the 80s and playing them to a draw with 1AA type players!

Semper Fi Nicky....I am 67 .

My only South Carolina duty was at PI.

Parris Island...Geiger, Onslow Beach, Key West Naval Underwater Swim School, Fort Benning Jump school, Amphib Underwater Recon ( at UDT Coronado Cal), Pickle Meadows, Pendleton, Camp Lejeune.

I was lucky, I guess, in my timing...graduated HS in 1964..into the Corps, When the Corps started really building up in Nam, I didn't have enough time left for a full tour.

 

[Husky25]

I come to this board and others that discuss CR because it is interesting to me, and I'd like to see UConn in the ACC at some point. I don't discuss CR on the Virginia board much because no one is interested. We don't have a CR board or much CR discussion going on.

I think that ship has sailed. I think UConn is aiming higher than the Artist Formerly Known as the Big East (errr...ACC North). And no one can blame them! ACC members have been leading UConn on for so long as it is.

I think if (and more likely when) the time comes for the ACC actually extends a bona fide invite - instead of the handshake with a buzzer - , the higher ups at UConn will go through back channels to the Big Ten. If the Big Ten offers, UConn jumps. If the Big Ten doesn't, UConn takes the consolation prize. Albeit, I'm a bit jaded at this point, but this remains my best guess and hope...Since UConn was left out of the Pittsburgh/Syracuse expansion, I've been ready to say duck* the ACC.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I wonder why it is "the shore" in Jersey?

Nobody in the south goes to the shore....we go to the beach.

"Shore" has a slightly different connotation than "beach." Beach is a specific reference to the sandy venue next to the water's edge. The beach implies activities like sunbathing and cavorting in the surf. Shore is a broader reference that includes beach stuff but also the bars and restaurants, boardwalk amusements, boating, etc.

 

[billybud]

I agree that the Big Ten seems most likely at present for UConn...

Who else in the east, other than maybe Cincinnati, makes any sense? And Cincy would be a far second.

If the B1G does expand by two, and if the GOR's really are the tie that binds, it would look like UConn would be one.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

You have to be a real visionary to see Rutgers as a good long play. And unless you are the Yankess we know one thing about the NYC market...they don't give a rat's a* if you don't win.

People in Florida saw a swamp. Walt saw Disney World.

 

[ctchamps]

We can revisit this in 10 years, and Rutgers will remain insignificant. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I know some laughed yesterday when I posted that Temple could provide to the ACC everything that Rutgers does to the Big Ten and more since Temple can at least win a basketball game. I still believe it. I don't know if the ACC would go that route, but it's available to them.

I hope to be here. And yes Temple could be an alternative. It faces the same difficulties Rutgers or any school that is trying to become a player faces. Personally I would have taken UConn, Temple and Rutgers over UConn, Cuse and Pitt at the time if I were the ACC and would be laughed out of this forum, never mind the ACC for this choice. Heck I wouldn't even have you as an ally. Add BC and Maryland and that would have been a good core of 5 northeastern universities with close proximity to get something started.

Those five universities would have a lot of work to do to get to a situation where they were relevant in football. But if they did they would dominate the last market still open to following college sports.

Would FSU or Clemson have liked that. Absolutely not. But FSU and Clemson have been getting top ten football classes for many years now and they have only shown periodic blips of doing something with those classes. When they chose Ville, don't you think they were doing the same thing all those in power do when wanting to avoid their population from over scrutinizing them. They divert attention away from themselves. So the FSU and Clemson administrations are going to make the case that the reason's for their shortcoming in performance in football was due to the weakness of the ACC as a football conference as opposed to their inability to get the right coaches. They'll blame the Virginia and North Carolina contingent as being the reason behind their failure. And it works because, as this forum demonstrates, we all don't add up 1 + 1 the same way or get the same results.

I would counter the Clemson and FSU argument with the logic that says if they couldn't go undefeated in a conference where everyone else is extremely weak, what makes anyone believe they could win in a conference that is composed of two or three programs of top ten quality. But what do I no what is logical.