B1G, ACC battle for New York

[NickyNewark]

I know what would happen. Philadelphia would become an ACC basketball town. There would need to be work on the football side, but the Big Ten is going to find hard work in Maryland and Rutgers too in football. They are going to find hard work in everything when it comes to Rutgers.

We've been talking markets here. Someone just pointed that out above regarding Louisville. In Louisville, the ACC added the Sugar Bowl and NCAA Men's Basketball Champion. When we discuss that, people tell me it's a small market. Philly is a bigger market than Louisville is it not?

StimpyCuse!!

 

[NickyNewark]

I still believe a northest pod of UConn-Syracuse-BC would have been a boon for the league. Maybe it still will e.

I totally see your point concerning RU (I am already sold on UConn joining the ACC). Swofford might agree with you, too. But, selling what RU offers, and, then getting the ACC members to vote them in, is another thing altogether.

And thats just the reason the ACC is constantly outwitted and embarressed by the B1G!!

 

[Fishy]

The ACC can restore the Mid-Atlantic by adding Temple if the ACC thinks it needs the Mid-Atlantic....

Ah, no.

As an athletic institution, Rutgers is an abortion. Temple aspires to be Rutgers.

You just cannot replace Maryland's market with Temple.

 

[SouthronCross]

Whats an ACC FB title worth?Uh OH I think W.Va just scored again!!Can you say over rated?........@I live in Cos Cob whats your deal?Why would I as an RU fan have to kiss anyones ?Im here cause Im an eastern FB fan but I find you with a guilt complex knowing your conference made DUMB moves or just a common T.

See, throwing out what WVU did to Clemson shows you, as a RU fan, have to drag on another team's major accomplishments in order to try and talk trash, because you have none of your own to draw from. I am not surprised.

Whats an ACC FB title worth? If its champion finishes as one of two undefeated teams at the end of the regular season, it WILL play for the BCS title. That even after a horrible decade plus in FB, this league still has a seat at the big boy table. We are still involved. Thats all you need to know.

I have zero guilt complex about what John Swofford has done. He did what he thought necessary to save his league. Do I agree with everything thats transpied? No, not at all. But, those are not my calls. Nor, his alone.

What I DO find fascinating is that it bothers you so much.

 

[SouthronCross]

Wow "denial is a river in Egypt"?How unique and original !!

No need to waste anything original on you. You'd just deflect, and, accuse me of being a Syracuse fan again...LOL.

 

[NickyNewark]

It would be primarily a basketball move done to get the ACC Network on the air in that market. That's all. I'm not advocating that Temple football will light the world on fire in Philadelphia. I looked at their attendance last season for football. It averaged around 25,000. That looks sparse in a 69,000 seat stadium. There is room for improvement there. Maybe they will improve in the AAC.

Light the world on fire?RU was shocked they outnumbered Temple fans in Philly 5-1!You've lost any credibility with that silliness!

 

[NickyNewark]

No need to waste anything original on you. You'd just deflect, and, accuse me of being a Syracuse fan again...LOL.

No your even less....your a troll!!

 

[NickyNewark]

See, throwing out what WVU did to Clemson shows you, as a RU fan, have to drag on another team's major accomplishments in order to try and talk trash, because you have none of your own to draw from. I am not surprised.

Whats an ACC FB title worth? If its champion finishes as one of two undefeated teams at the end of the regular season, it WILL play for the BCS title. That even after a horrible decade plus in FB, this league still has a seat at the big boy table. We are still involved. Thats all you need to know.

I have zero guilt complex about what John Swofford has done. He did what he thought necessary to save his league. Do I agree with everything thats transpied? No, not at all. But, those are not my calls. Nor, his alone.

What I DO find fascinating is that it bothers you so much.

What has UNC ever accomplished even with cheating in FB?RU has been to 8 bowls in 9 years...I know nothing major but better than a middling FB team in the weakest "power" conference!

 

[NickyNewark]

What has UNC ever accomplished even with cheating in FB?RU has been to 8 bowls in 9 years...I know nothing major but better than a middling FB team in the weakest "power" conference!

But not as involved as the B1G!!

 

[BoatShow]

Oh great, another argument between fans of two teams that are not UConn on our board.

 

[baggerbob]

And thats just the reason the ACC is constantly outwitted and embarressed by the B1G!!

Nicky I'm happy Rutgers found a home, but until such time as Rutgers shows themselves to be great at anything for a number of years, you need to be a little less of an a**. UConn is ten times the school Rutgers ever hopes of being, and I expect to see them in the ACC within 2 years. In September of 2011 the ACC moved, in September of 2012 the ACC moved, the Big 10 then reacted by picking 2 schools that were losing money. If your 2 schools have such a high rate of fans, you should have been able to balance your budgets, which were less then Syracuse and UConn, but apparently the fan money isn't there. Your school has a great opportunity, just as it had when you came into the original Big East football conference, don't blow it again. I would like to see Rutgers do well, it makes the east look better, Penn St made a lot of money, but before they joined the big 10 they were winning National Championships, since they hardly win Big 10 championships. It would have been better in 1980 if Rutgers, rather then Seton Hall had joined the Big East, we would have gotten enough votes, by having the football schools threaten to leave if they didn't vote Penn St in. Good Luck In the Big 10, I'd much rather eastern schools were all in one conference, but we'll see you in a bowl game, maybe the Orange Bowl, would be great for Eastern Football.

 

[SouthronCross]

The major reason I give the ACC grief is Swofford. Hell, truth be told, I've got College Park roots myself (not that those will be relevant to the ACC much longer). Going back to the first Big East raid, here's what has happened (to the best of my memory):

PAC - added Colorado and Utah.
SEC - added TAMU and Missouri.
B1G - added Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers.
B12 - added WVU and TCU. Lost Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, Texas A&M.
ACC - added BCU, VaTech, Miami, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville. Partially added ND. Lost Maryland.

Can you spot the elephant in that living room? I don't mean the conference, I mean the type of school being added (or lost). PAC adds two state flagships. SEC adds two state flagships (OK, TAMU might not be a flagship but Texas is really big and A&M is damn close). B1G adds three flagships. B12 adds a flagship but loses 4. ACC adds no flagships and loses 1. Conference membership now stands as follows:

PAC - Seven flagships (I'm considering Cal and UCLA flagships for the same reason I feel TAMU is), three state #2 publics, and two privates.
SEC - Eleven flagships, two state #2 publics, and one private.
B1G - Eleven flagships, two state #2 publics, and one private.
B12 - Four flagships, three state #2 publics, Texas Tech, and two privates.
ACC - Two flagships, seven state #2 publics, and five-and-a-half privates.

Swofford may have been hamstrung (as far as adding UConn and Rutgers rather than Pitt and Cuse) to a degree by the "football" schools but its his JOB to overcome those objections by presenting a clear and compelling vision for the conference. And I swear that guy's eyesight is 20/ten trillion.

NOTHING Swofford told the FB-first schools was going to change their minds. They did not want to hear 'potential' or any other adjective that might've swayed them on UConn-RU. They wanted a school who was successful NOW, and, UL could not have picked a better time to have an 11-2 season. Can they sustain it that? We'll see.

Swofford is a secretive, i.e., sneaky, little bastard. His first Big East raid was done so much under cover of darkness it made me wonder if he also planned the Colts escape from Baltimore. I think his current problems holding the conference together can be traced directly to that raid (not entirely cause he's sure as exacerbated things since). The best acquisition in that first raid, VaTech, fell into his lap because the Virginia legislature had better sense than he did.

The 2003 expansion was not his finest hour, but, BE schools coming to the ACC was not an entirely new idea, nor, was it even his. You can thank your former commish, Mike Tranghese, for that. He even floated the idea to Swofford as far back as 1999.

Given The Swoff's inability to identify quality recruits for the conference is it any wonder the football's told him to sit down and stfu when the desire to replace Maryland arose. Louisville was the small minded. The move of a tactician, not a strategist. Is that have kept them ahead of the B12 in the race to the bottom? Maybe, but so what?

To answer your question, though, Rutgers geography and flagship status is where the ACC should have been aiming. Flagship status implies the resources of the state are behind the institution. Rutgers and UConn (together with BC and Syracuse) would have left the ACC unchallenged on the entire North Atlantic coast. The northeast super region market could have better positioned the ACC to challenge the SEC on the South Atlantic coast. Would it have been a slam dunk? Of course not, but which of life's worthwhile goals are. The thing is Swoffy didn't even try, probably didn't even know TO try.

Swoffy is not the best commish, but, he's not totally stupid, either. His paramount goal a year ago was to save his league from potentially being torn completely apart. He succeeded. What his next move might be, I haven't a clue.

RU have had the resources of the state behind them for decades now, and, where has it gotten them? Unless they produce competitive teams in the B1G, what difference will it make? Fans will not show up if they don't produce once they get there. All of the incoming revenue will be nice, but, it they don't win, then what?

Swoffy has a vision for the league, and, just like you, I have no idea on earth what it might be. There were times I thought I could see it, but, I eventually gave up trying.

Truth be told, when last summer's CR talk began, I wanted UNC and UVA to tell the league where to go, and, jump to the SEC. But, the UNC BOGs were not going to let that happen, at least without finding NCSU a solid landing spot. Plus, I was not sold that UVA's Board of Visitors would agree to that, either.

 

[btstimpy]

Light the world on fire?RU was shocked they outnumbered Temple fans in Philly 5-1!You've lost any credibility with that silliness!

I wouldn't care who is sitting in the seats as long as someone is and it gets on TV in that market.

 

[SouthronCross]

If the ACC voted on Rutgers, I would expect that the same voting block that stopped UConn would have done the same to Rutgers. Syracuse in particular does not want to share NYC with anyone, especially Rutgers, even if Rutgers is 200 miles closer to Times Square than Syracuse. The ACC football block may have been a tad bit more receptive as they could ‘sell’ playing at Rutgers every few years to NJ recruits.

Thats a fair point about selling playing RU to NJ recruits. I know UNC and UVA recruit there regularly, among others.

As for UNC, they are happy with their fiefdom in the ACC as clearly the conference lives or dies with them. UNC would lose that clout in the B1G or any other conference. It will be interesting 20 years if the ACC implodes once the GoR’s expire and somehow the XII holds on as the survivor if demographics in NC at that time still favor the SEC or will enough Yankees invade TRP & Charlotte to lean UNC to the B1G.

UNC's 'fiefdom' died when the first expansion came to pass. UNC was 100 percent against going past 10 teams, but,they got outvoted, 7-2, on that one. The University has basically been against all ACC expansion, but, they know they're powerless to stop it. Now, they do exert a lot of influence, but, UNC's influence within the ACC is minute, compared to what Texas has in the Big 12.

 

[SouthronCross]

And thats just the reason the ACC is constantly outwitted and embarressed by the B1G!!

How was the ACC embarassed by the B1G? If you are referring to Maryland, you are mistaken. UMD spent itself into a financial black hole by trying to keep up with the Joneses (UNC-UVA). Jim Delany grabbed the lowest hanging fruit he could find, after UNC-UVA declined his overtures.

I find it hilarious that some UMD fans and alumni blame the ACC for the lack of revenue, when others in the league are solidly in the black with the same contract payouts.

 

[SouthronCross]

No your even less....your a troll!!

Good grief, it has devolved into a 'I know you are, but, what am I' conversation.

When you stick to the subject going forward, we can talk then.

 

[SouthronCross]

What has UNC ever accomplished even with cheating in FB?RU has been to 8 bowls in 9 years...I know nothing major but better than a middling FB team in the weakest "power" conference!

I've never said UNC was some kind of FB power. I know we are an average program. And, this is the first time our FB program has ever been in trouble with the NCAA.

Yes, RU's had a very good decade, and, we have not. Thats not debateable. Yet, we've won the last three games we've played vs RU. All played in that same decade, including two at your place. One, a 44-12 beatdown that we've since vacated as part of our NCAA punishment.

Just look up the records for the two schools, and, tell me what you find.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php

 

[d1reality]

I am dating Kate Upton.

That's super. You won't be up all night worried about the AAC football schedule.

 

[Adios]

That's super. You won't be up all night worried about the AAC football schedule.

Our time in the AAC will very likely be shorter than our time in the Big East. We should be in an elite athletic conference soon. That's definitely our future in hockey. SEC-level hockey. Good days ahead.

 

[Adios]

Oh great, another argument between fans of two teams that are not UConn on our board.

They love us. That's the best sign we have of our future.

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky I'm happy Rutgers found a home, but until such time as Rutgers shows themselves to be great at anything for a number of years, you need to be a little less of an a* . UConn is ten times the school Rutgers ever hopes of being, and I expect to see them in the ACC within 2 years. In September of 2011 the ACC moved, in September of 2012 the ACC moved, the Big 10 then reacted by picking 2 schools that were losing money. If your 2 schools have such a high rate of fans, you should have been able to balance your budgets, which were less then Syracuse and UConn, but apparently the fan money isn't there. Your school has a great opportunity, just as it had when you came into the original Big East football conference, don't blow it again. I would like to see Rutgers do well, it makes the east look better, Penn St made a lot of money, but before they joined the big 10 they were winning National Championships, since they hardly win Big 10 championships. It would have been better in 1980 if Rutgers, rather then Seton Hall had joined the Big East, we would have gotten enough votes, by having the football schools threaten to leave if they didn't vote Penn St in. Good Luck In the Big 10, I'd much rather eastern schools were all in one conference, but we'll see you in a bowl game, maybe the Orange Bowl, would be great for Eastern Football.

Whats any of this got to do with RU getting into the big and having better and better recruiting classes every year as the momentum builds?Who says any school is 10 times better than RU?If they are whats all this concern and anxiety about RU's great opportunity?Can you smell the fear of a waking giant?Were doing something right as it looks like a scared ACC fan fest is making the rounds trying to "win over the east" on all the relevant boards!(PSU,SU,L'ville) is coming out of NC and Va on a propaganda tour that can't stop RU's momentum and any school who's 10 times better should put there application in to the SEC if its true!Like Swoffy if you guys played like your recruiting classes(FSU,UM,CU) you'd be scary and the rest is old BE filler!What black hole does all that talent fall into?The ACC is too erratic to worry about in FB and its good to see all this RU anxiety as if they were truly irrelevant you would'nt even bother!Seems like a lot of handwringing going on somewhere in ACC land over something that if true would be beneath them?Temple? Really?Let UConn in and I wouldn't even be here...if they'll have you?They got a raw deal but no one in todays landscape is even 2 times better than anyone else so how much more BS are you gonna throw at the wall w/o looking stupid?

 

[NickyNewark]

I've never said UNC was some kind of FB power. I know we are an average program. And, this is the first time our FB program has ever been in trouble with the NCAA.

Yes, RU's had a very good decade, and, we have not. Thats not debateable. Yet, we've won the last three games we've played vs RU. All played in that same decade, including two at your place. One, a 44-12 beatdown that we've since vacated as part of our NCAA punishment.

Just look up the records for the two schools, and, tell me what you find.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia_team_index.php

You mean that last game where we scored 3 times from the goal line and didn't get the call?If you think you won that game(stole it) then you believe SU beat Akron too on that "missed xtra pt"!When was that last game?"05" or "06"?IIRC that was(1 or 2 pts)the margin of victory and before that we were just bad as Schiano had to clear it out and build it on a rock foundation instead of stilts like most johnny come latelys do and you can see now the fruits of that labor JUST STARTING to pay dividends!When Schiano left everyone thought RU's top 25 recruiting class would collapse?Didn't happen despite the talking heads popular opinion and Kelis Fisher is still building on that and many B1G posters have been on RU's boards giving there congratulations(nice to be associated with that type of classy conference mates) esp from OSU,PSU and Michigan unlike that crab-barrel of the ACC !Thats what happens when youre in with a decent bunch of peer schools....they pull FOR each other not tear each other to shreds(vulture)!Have a little confidence even though the network wouldn't be worth it to your bosses(ESPin)...thats why they threw you a little bone!All that energy and concern over RU?I guess we've arrived. ... @check out this years recruiting haul up to now with #1 RB in NJ 3/4* Jonathan Hilliman from SPP,JC,NJ supposedly commiting at 430 this afternoon to RU over OSU! Another top 20 class from an irrelevant school? RU rising but not forgetting our brother school who was given the old ACC "Oh well,they'll still be there when we need them" spiel when everyone assumed they were next in line for an ACC bid !Again they raise the bar?

 

[NickyNewark]

Oh great, another argument between fans of two teams that are not UConn on our board.

Its an invasion (organized by tobacco road) of ACC fans on a RU smear campaign and I didn't realize it until I saw it on an RU board that they've been making a "damage control" tour of former BE boards and PSU's looking to raise disenscion and repair friendships by using divisive psychological tactics on susceptable and weakened fanbases!The old "divide and conquer techniques of Tsu's "Art of War" thinking were stupid yanks and it might just work knowing how badly they damaged relations with us (UConn) by picking "relevent L'ville" over us knowing what it would do to our FB program!I smell BC/SU behind some of this?SU more than BC as SU's demise coincided with our rise and they can't pull recruits from NY/NJ anymore and it drives them crazy!

 

[billybud]

I wonder why it is "the shore" in Jersey?

Nobody in the south goes to the shore....we go to the beach.

 

[The Funster]

If you can find that quote somewhere I would appreciate it. I have stated here numerous times that Gene D. was not liked by the B.C. fan base, and that is being kind. He had very little support from alums and fans who found him to be turning a deaf ear to the masses. Aloof, non responsive, and arrogant are words that come to my mind that were spoken on many BC blogs and sites. Gaining A.C.C. membership was his most important contribution to BC.

That being said, I am hoping for a thaw at some point soon so BC and U Conn can resume playing football. Great for New England and the entire region. At least we will meet in bb this year, I think in soccer and perhaps field hockey as well, not sure have not looked at schedules. Hockey East membership for U Conn is a great way to play BC on a regular basis every year. Thats a good start, who knows perhaps bb will follow suit and ink a series contract. In my opinion shame on the Presidents and Politicians, Athletics Directors and Coaches who ended up deciding for the fans and alums that disconnecting the two schools athletically was in our best interest. They should take steps immediately to restore relations and put this cold war to bed once and for all.

Absolutely agree. And I find the ACC appealing because of the rivalry factor. I think BC and UConn playing annually is a win/win.

 

[NickyNewark]

I wonder why it is "the shore" in Jersey?

Nobody in the south goes to the shore....we go to the beach.

Because at lands end you get to the sand and shoreline but beach implies recreation and fun which does sound nicer !

 

[NickyNewark]

Absolutely agree. And I find the ACC appealing because of the rivalry factor. I think BC and UConn playing annually is a win/win.

I don't understand how the BC AD can't see the rivalry is necessary to stimulate local interest on both sides?Thats what FB is really all about..local pride and ability to actually get to go to the games!

 

[billybud]

There are interesting dynamics in conference realignment....

Much of fan interest is geography based. Heated rivalries usually involve several ingredients...

1...Relative proximity....... Adjacent states, same state...games like Alabama-Auburn, Ohio St.-Michigan, FSU-Miami, Texas-Oklahoma, Pitt-WVU, Fla-Georgia, etc.

2...Relative parity .....If one team is 19-2 vs another (like FSU-Maryland) hard to get worked up into a rivalry mode.

3...The game means something...regularly playing a program for the division title, conference title, state bragging rights, etc.

Rivalries are not easy to come by....23 years into the ACC and FSU is just now building its only rivalry (Miami existed before ACC). The Clemson game is a budding rivalry.


I think that it is difficult for fans of schools separated as far as New England and Florida are, to build real rivalries. The beauty of the SEC is its compactness. On any given fall saturday, caravans of fans, flags flying, move across the southeast on their way to an opponent's stadium.

 

[NickyNewark]

Swoffy is not the best commish, but, he's not totally stupid, either. His paramount goal a year ago was to save his league from potentially being torn completely apart. He succeeded. What his next move might be, I haven't a clue.

RU have had the resources of the state behind them for decades now, and, where has it gotten them? Unless they produce competitive teams in the B1G, what difference will it make? Fans will not show up if they don't produce once they get there. All of the incoming revenue will be nice, but, it they don't win, then what?

Swoffy has a vision for the league, and, just like you, I have no idea on earth what it might be. There were times I thought I could see it, but, I eventually gave up trying.

Truth be told, when last summer's CR talk began, I wanted UNC and UVA to tell the league where to go, and, jump to the SEC. But, the UNC BOGs were not going to let that happen, at least without finding NCSU a solid landing spot. Plus, I was not sold that UVA's Board of Visitors would agree to that, either.

If you know anything at all about RU/NJ politics you would know that untill Mulcahy came in RU did not have or get the resourses necessary to do what they've done since he hired GS in "00/01"?NOT DECADES or Doug Graber might have been able to get it going as hes said when announcing some RU games!He proudly stated he'd like to take the credit due Schiano but knew due to lack of resourses/support he couldn't!We've had exactly 11 or 12 years and still growing who anyone in touch could obviously see!Ive watched RU FB since the late 60s and early 70s and never felt so sure of anything as I do that were on our way and nothing can stop the momentum as RU has become a popular place with in and out of state kids which never used to be the case!People can hate all they want but those in the know see the writing on the wall !!

 

[NickyNewark]

If you know anything at all about RU/NJ politics you would know that untill Mulcahy came in RU did not have or get the resourses necessary to do what they've done since he hired GS in "00/01"?NOT DECADES or Doug Graber might have been able to get it going as hes said when announcing some RU games!He proudly stated he'd like to take the credit due Schiano but knew due to lack of resourses/support he couldn't!We've had exactly 11 or 12 years and still growing who anyone in touch could obviously see!Ive watched RU FB since the late 60s and early 70s and never felt so sure of anything as I do that were on our way and nothing can stop the momentum as RU has become a popular place with in and out of state kids which never used to be the case!People can hate all they want but those in the know see the writing on the wall !!

RU and L'ville led the BE in attendence per game with 49+G and as "popular as the "U" is they can't draw flies to a game!I saw a photo of a UM home game last year where they claimed 300 ..yes hundred?Alls u could see were rows and rows of empty seats?BC not much better and "Cuse"?Their lucky to get 30G to come to the dome!How many fans do you think will come to see OSU?Mich?PSU?Neb?Wisc?...even if RU loses they'll get 35G plus with that many big dogs and there local fanbases those seats WILL BE FILLED!I'd imagine 54G seats will have to be expanded by 13/15G very soon!