B1G, ACC battle for New York

[adbern7]

If you don't know your not very smart!!Think your smarter than Delany and all his high paid research firms?Your quite obviously a jealous Cuse troll!For one they "RU" have been on the B1Gs radar for 20 yrs and Jopa and Glen Mason have been pushing for them for years and for another 8 bowls in 9 years plus population,location and great recruiting base made them an obvious plum that Swoffy was to dumb or lacked the vision to see!!People like you are so obviously jealous as it makes me wonder about your "lack of vision"!!RU and Uconn would have done what SU and BC will never do...(pay there way)!!It took 20 years behind the scenes work and you in a few posts think you have all the answers?Get a life and quit trying to kiss here!Loser!SouthRonLoss!!

B1G adding Rutgers was the ultimate defensive move after UVA, UNC, GT, and ND all told B1G to go home. Delaney realized he stepped in it piling on all the Penn St negative press after Sandusky, and with all of Penn St's traditional rivals + ND aligned with the ACC he was seriously sweating them bolting in the next 5-10 years. Combined with the need to expand B1G's recruiting beyond the Rust Belt...Rutgers became a convenient target. Note I said it was a defensive move...not necessarily a bad move. Same as ACC taking UL.

 

[woomba]

B1G adding Rutgers was the ultimate defensive move after UVA, UNC, GT, and ND all told B1G to go home. Delaney realized he stepped in it piling on all the Penn St negative press after Sandusky, and with all of Penn St's traditional rivals + ND aligned with the ACC he was seriously sweating them bolting in the next 5-10 years. Combined with the need to expand B1G's recruiting beyond the Rust Belt...Rutgers became a convenient target. Note I said it was a defensive move...not necessarily a bad move. Same as ACC taking UL.

Rutgers was a defensive move, but not because of Penn State bolting - that's a message board myth. It was a defensive move because ACC would've tapped Rutgers to replace Maryland if Big Ten didn't act first, which would've defeated the purpose of Big Ten going east to take Maryland gain a foothold in the mid-Atlantic. That's why both were negotiated in tandem and announced within days of each other.

 

[SouthronCross]

If you don't know your not very smart!!Think your smarter than Delany and all his high paid research firms?Your quite obviously a jealous Cuse troll!For one they "RU" have been on the B1Gs radar for 20 yrs and Jopa and Glen Mason have been pushing for them for years and for another 8 bowls in 9 years plus population,location and great recruiting base made them an obvious plum that Swoffy was to dumb or lacked the vision to see!!People like you are so obviously jealous as it makes me wonder about your "lack of vision"!!RU and Uconn would have done what SU and BC will never do...(pay there way)!!It took 20 years behind the scenes work and you in a few posts think you have all the answers?Get a life and quit trying to kiss here!Loser!SouthRonLoss!!

You're a touchy one, aren't you? You obviously do not follow the discussion very well, either.

First off, I am not a Syracuse fan, I am a North Carolina fan. How you came to that erroneous, incorrect, and, dishonest obervation, I have no idea. My allegiance is there for everybody on the board to see.

Second, that RU have been on Delany's radar for 20 years is of no matter whatsoever to me. UNC has been on there just as long, if not longer. UNC and UVA were Delany's initial targets for this last B1G expansion, not RU and UMD. If you doubt me, go back and do some research. Delany is a UNC alum, and, its very well known that he wants his alma mater in his conference. You do a whole lot of talking about RU, which were clearly a safety school for the B1G.

Third, everybody who has followed CR knows full well that location is what got RU their invite. Your great recruiting base is an overstated reason, as B1G schools were already recruiting heavily in NJ, years before your name ever came up in discussion. And, you sure as heck were not invited for all of your great athletic achievements, which were discussed on here previously. I will not waste our hosts' time and bandwidth looking them up again.

As for Swofford, I am pretty sure that he performed his due diligence in deciding who to offer an ACC invite. While he is certainly not the greatest league commissioner out there, he is not the worst. Nor, is he the dumbest. He doesn't have carte blanche on just who the league invites to join. I am pretty certain he presented a case for RU, and, you got voted down by the league's members, for whatever reason(s). It happens.

Lastly, you are 100 percent out of your cottonpicking mind, if you think I (or, any other Carolina fan) am jealous of anything having to do with RU, and, their getting a B1G invite. Both UNC and UVA had spots in the league, right there for the taking. But, both declined. They both preferred to remain in the ACC alongside schools they been associated with, and, have competed with, even before the ACC came into being.

My coming to this board, and, talking CR with the UConn fans here, is in no way, shape, form, or fashion, 'kissing ass,' as you so crudely put it. UNC were squarely in UConn's corner during our last expansion, as we recognised how valuable an asset they would be for the league. But, we were outvoted. It is still my sincere hope that they do get in. If not, its an opportunity missed on the ACC's part.

You want to talk about who needs to 'grow up' on this board? Take a long, hard stare in the mirror, dude. I believe if I were insincere, they guys here would say so. Thus far, I believe I have conducted myself in a manner that in no way says 'troll.' I have stuck to the topic at hand, and offered my opinion. Some have disagreed with me, and, stated why. You are the only person here who has taken issue with anything I've posted, and, you are not even a UConn fan. Who is the troll, Nicky?

Hint hint: it ain't me.

 

[SouthronCross]

Rutgers was a defensive move, but not because of Penn State bolting - that's a message board myth. It was a defensive move because ACC would've tapped Rutgers to replace Maryland if Big Ten didn't act first, which would've defeated the purpose of Big Ten going east to take Maryland gain a foothold in the mid-Atlantic. That's why both were negotiated in tandem and announced within days of each other.

No Rams Club (UNC boosters) members I know ever mentoned Rutgers as a replacement for Maryland. Not even once.

It was always UConn, Louisville, or, Cincinnati. Swofford could not sell RU to the ACC's FB-first schools. Pure and simple.

 

[BCINGYA]

If you don't know your not very smart!!Think your smarter than Delany and all his high paid research firms?Your quite obviously a jealous Cuse troll!For one they "RU" have been on the B1Gs radar for 20 yrs and Jopa and Glen Mason have been pushing for them for years and for another 8 bowls in 9 years plus population,location and great recruiting base made them an obvious plum that Swoffy was to dumb or lacked the vision to see!!People like you are so obviously jealous as it makes me wonder about your "lack of vision"!!RU and Uconn would have done what SU and BC will never do...(pay there way)!!It took 20 years behind the scenes work and you in a few posts think you have all the answers?Get a life and quit trying to kiss here!Loser!SouthRonLoss!!

You were just telling me to ignore the baiters ......what happened? ...Pay there way? that's a strange statement

 

[woomba]

No Rams Club (UNC boosters) members I know ever mentoned Rutgers as a replacement for Maryland. Not even once.

It was always UConn, Louisville, or, Cincinnati. Swofford could not sell RU to the ACC's FB-first schools. Pure and simple.

Rutgers was off the table before they would've even had that discussion - I don't think anyone in ACC-land saw Maryland's defection coming.

 

[SouthronCross]

VPI FB blueblood?CU?whose that?GT a power?50 years ago maybe when FSU was a girls school!The ACC is a 2 or 3 school conference...get off your high horse coming here trying to ass kizz your way into good graces!What do you say on SU's boards?Talking about RU you must be an Alabama or LSU fan cause no one in the ACC is better than RU...maybe FSU right now but NO ONE else is on a higher plane !

Great day in the morning.

Do you even read what I post before you reply? Where did I say the phrase 'football blueblood?' I am pretty certain I said 'FB-first schools.' Which indeeds applies to all of the schools I mentioned.

VPI won 10 or more games in each of their first eight seasons in the ACC, winning four titles, and, playing in five BCS bowls. Clemson has won a national title (1981), and, 13 ACC titles in their history. GT have four national titles, with the most recent in 1990. They won the ACC in 2009. FSU won 10+ games each season from 1987-2001. During that time, they won 13 ACC titles, 2 MNCs ('93, '99), and, played for three more MNCs ('96, '98, '00).

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those programs are better than RU. And, have been for awhile now. If you cannot see that, well, Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

If what I'm doing here is kissing , what is what you're doing called?

With that, I'm done for the night. Later, gents. You too, Nicky.

 

[ctchamps]

I understand why we catch grief for not adding UConn, which was a big mistake by the ACC, IMHO. I do not see bypassing RU as a mistake, though.

Other than their geographic location, what else about them can we sell to the likes of FSU, CU, GT, VPI, or, Miami? What else justifies them as a 'must add' type of school?

The geography is everything. I'm buying China over Italy. I don't care about the Roman Empire. Wonderful story whose time has passed. Modern day Italy will survive. So will Cuse and BC. But the publics like Rutgers and UConn will overtake Cuse and BC in the near future. I don't believe Rutgers or UConn will rise to the level of Alabama or LSU or Ohio State. But they have a better potential to reach the level of Wisconsin than the privates. What I project is that the northeast (outside of Penn.) is a sleeping tiger that with the right moves, could in every way, develop huge fan bases for football. It isn't really about recruiting grounds that Delaney has taken Rutgers. It's about potential fans and thus viewership and thus dollars and thus further separation from the ACC.

If the ACC had more vision they would have beaten Delaney to the punch. They could have taken UConn and Rutgers and Maryland would have been marginalized in the eyes of the B!G.

The funny thing is Rutgers and UConn would have kept BC relevant for a much longer time than I expect will happen without them.

 

[ctchamps]

If the ACC can begin winning big football games again (like in the '90s), we will be fine. Then, all of the disparaging will disappear. Hopefully, UConn will be along for the ride when that happens.

Not disparaging in any way. I wish UConn had BC's problems. But relative to the PAC, B!G and SEC the ACC will most likely fall further behind in terms of revenues even if it does begin winning because they only control two strong markets. The best hope is for FSU to dominate and win several NCs in football. That could get people in Fl. to view the ACC instead of the SEC. Outside of that the ACC will basically stay at a level below the other three.

The push to get Rutgers and UConn would have been the riskier move but if they could develop to the next level in football that would have been another way that the ACC could have generated more numbers of viewers. The play in the northeast is to generate a greater interest in college football. It lags the rest of the country and it has a huge population of untapped fans. I'm saying Rutgers and UConn was the better play to get that untapped source than Cuse and Pitt. I don't have any more allegiance to Rutgers than BC, Cuse or Pitt. Its just how I'm assessing things.

 

[ctchamps]

Whoever wrote "I honesty don't understand the ACC's direction" could be this site's spokesperson. No, you don't. This board consistently overrates cable demographics, TV payouts, UConn's relevance in NYC and underrates athletic tradition and institutional culture. Realignment is ultimately decided on the field and in the Trustees' offices...not on powerpoint. [Rutgers is the exception that proves the rule]. That is why UConn got temporarily left behind, you have about 20 years of total relevant athletic history across all sports. Not sure what the future holds but all the other "reasons" for the way CR has panned out like it has for Uconn are a sideshow.

PS - Non UConn fans like me keep coming to this Board bc it's one of the last places on the web that still has CR discussion, generally an entertaining topic.

I'm the guy. I might be one of the few voices in this CR forum supporting UConn that was devastated by the demise of the BE and I felt that way even when UConn looked to be the lock for the ACC. I love tradition. But tradition doesn't run the world. A Swiss inventor showed his quartz watch to the Swiss but they laughed at the construction because it wasn't traditional. The Japanese didn't and took over the watch making market from the Swiss. The Swiss overplayed tradition.

Like it or not paradigms continuously change. There is always a tug of war between those who want to change and those that want to hold on. Media changed sports in a big way because it demonstrated that huge monies could be made from them. And ESPN changed the media because it showed that there were untapped sources of athletics that could generate revenues. For a while universities only got exposure for coverage. Then the paradigm shift happened where someone questioned why universities weren't getting a share of the medias monies. And now the race is on to be the one to get the most monies and maybe eliminate the media altogether.

Certainly there are those within the universities that long for the days past where academics and not athletics are the only focus or most of the focus, and those universities still exist. But the groups within the CR have taken a different path, and those who are the most flexible and understand the drivers for revenue will be the most successful with this current round of paradigm shift. And IMHO I believe that the ACC has made huge errors for the reason I have elaborated in other posts in this thread. The B!G has done just the opposite.

 

[NickyNewark]

B1G adding Rutgers was the ultimate defensive move after UVA, UNC, GT, and ND all told B1G to go home. Delaney realized he stepped in it piling on all the Penn St negative press after Sandusky, and with all of Penn St's traditional rivals + ND aligned with the ACC he was seriously sweating them bolting in the next 5-10 years. Combined with the need to expand B1G's recruiting beyond the Rust Belt...Rutgers became a convenient target. Note I said it was a defensive move...not necessarily a bad move. Same as ACC taking UL.

Outside of ND those schools you mentioned weren't even on the radar at that time!Priority #1ND #2NYC/NJ metro!!Everyone and everything else happens after there TOP moves!

 

[NickyNewark]

Great day in the morning.

Do you even read what I post before you reply? Where did I say the phrase 'football blueblood?' I am pretty certain I said 'FB-first schools.' Which indeeds applies to all of the schools I mentioned.

VPI won 10 or more games in each of their first eight seasons in the ACC, winning four titles, and, playing in five BCS bowls. Clemson has won a national title (1981), and, 13 ACC titles in their history. GT have four national titles, with the most recent in 1990. They won the ACC in 2009. FSU won 10+ games each season from 1987-2001. During that time, they won 13 ACC titles, 2 MNCs ('93, '99), and, played for three more MNCs ('96, '98, '00).

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those programs are better than RU. And, have been for awhile now. If you cannot see that, well, Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

If what I'm doing here is kissing , what is what you're doing called?

With that, I'm done for the night. Later, gents. You too, Nicky.

Whats an ACC FB title worth?Uh OH I think W.Va just scored again!!Can you say over rated?........@I live in Cos Cob whats your deal?Why would I as an RU fan have to kiss anyones ?Im here cause Im an eastern FB fan but I find you with a guilt complex knowing your conference made DUMB moves or just a common T.

 

[NickyNewark]

The geography is everything. I'm buying China over Italy. I don't care about the Roman Empire. Wonderful story whose time has passed. Modern day Italy will survive. So will Cuse and BC. But the publics like Rutgers and UConn will overtake Cuse and BC in the near future. I don't believe Rutgers or UConn will rise to the level of Alabama or LSU or Ohio State. But they have a better potential to reach the level of Wisconsin than the privates. What I project is that the northeast (outside of Penn.) is a sleeping tiger that with the right moves, could in every way, develop huge fan bases for football. It isn't really about recruiting grounds that Delaney has taken Rutgers. It's about potential fans and thus viewership and thus dollars and thus further separation from the ACC.

If the ACC had more vision they would have beaten Delaney to the punch. They could have taken UConn and Rutgers and Maryland would have been marginalized in the eyes of the B!G.

The funny thing is Rutgers and UConn would have kept BC relevant for a much longer time than I expect will happen without them.

That was what I think but was so mad at his stupidity and lack of vision I responded and shut down my computer fuming at the arrogance or stupidity of these backwater clowns (southernloss) that think Swoffy was a genius!I mean what has NC ever done "outside of cheat" in FB EVEN with Butch Davis who was sent packing but not before damaging NC's previous good reputation?Already SU's recruiting is suffering while RU's is rising and they can't figure out why the ACC card ain't helping as they thought it would!The Dougie saw the writing on the wall and fled his "dream job" knowing he would get the blame for there decline esp with Nassib who carried them going into the league!SU is trending down and thats a fact!The future is in UConn and RU in the east!

 

[NickyNewark]

Great day in the morning.

Do you even read what I post before you reply? Where did I say the phrase 'football blueblood?' I am pretty certain I said 'FB-first schools.' Which indeeds applies to all of the schools I mentioned.

VPI won 10 or more games in each of their first eight seasons in the ACC, winning four titles, and, playing in five BCS bowls. Clemson has won a national title (1981), and, 13 ACC titles in their history. GT have four national titles, with the most recent in 1990. They won the ACC in 2009. FSU won 10+ games each season from 1987-2001. During that time, they won 13 ACC titles, 2 MNCs ('93, '99), and, played for three more MNCs ('96, '98, '00).

EVERY SINGLE ONE of those programs are better than RU. And, have been for awhile now. If you cannot see that, well, Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

If what I'm doing here is kissing , what is what you're doing called?

With that, I'm done for the night. Later, gents. You too, Nicky.

Wow "denial is a river in Egypt"?How unique and original !!

 

[NickyNewark]

I'm the guy. I might be one of the few voices in this CR forum supporting UConn that was devastated by the demise of the BE and I felt that way even when UConn looked to be the lock for the ACC. I love tradition. But tradition doesn't run the world. A Swiss inventor showed his quartz watch to the Swiss but they laughed at the construction because it wasn't traditional. The Japanese didn't and took over the watch making market from the Swiss. The Swiss overplayed tradition.

Like it or not paradigms continuously change. There is always a tug of war between those who want to change and those that want to hold on. Media changed sports in a big way because it demonstrated that huge monies could be made from them. And ESPN changed the media because it showed that there were untapped sources of athletics that could generate revenues. For a while universities only got exposure for coverage. Then the paradigm shift happened where someone questioned why universities weren't getting a share of the medias monies. And now the race is on to be the one to get the most monies and maybe eliminate the media altogether.

Certainly there are those within the universities that long for the days past where academics and not athletics are the only focus or most of the focus, and those universities still exist. But the groups within the CR have taken a different path, and those who are the most flexible and understand the drivers for revenue will be the most successful with this current round of paradigm shift. And IMHO I believe that the ACC has made huge errors for the reason I have elaborated in other posts in this thread. The B!G has done just the opposite.

Excellent post and I wholeheartedly agree(but I'll bet Fishy won't) and am also saddened by the BE's demise and regional rivalries damaged!By the same token I see the ACC of lacking any vision in any of there moves and Delany makes Swoffy look outclassed and silly !The shame is BC and SU are gonna suffer for it because w/o UConn and RU they will become even more marginalized!The future is in large state schools with most privates hanging on!

 

[Adios]

That is why UConn got temporarily left behind, you have about 30 years* of total relevant athletic history across all sports. Not sure what the future holds but all the other "reasons" for the way CR has panned out like it has for Uconn are a sideshow.

UConn started winning big-time in the 80s. The soccer championship from 1948 is a miracle. I have no idea how else to describe it. But it can be said that era was also the turning point in this area between UConn and the Ivies/Little Ivies. Even the Little Ivies used to absolutely completely dominate UConn in football. I could look up our all-time record against those schools but would rather not. They owned UConn.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-soccer/archive/conn-m-soccer-sched-1948.html

That schedule sums up our old history perfectly.

 

[NickyNewark]

Rutgers was off the table before they would've even had that discussion - I don't think anyone in ACC-land saw Maryland's defection coming.

No,everyone knew at that time where RU was headed and after Neb move in "10/11" the B1G started looking for a partner for RU whom was earmarked to be ND's if they joined in "10/11"!After the Nebraska move it was announced MD was in talks about a possible move w/RU !!Just the fact you passed on UConn shows your lack of vision!What happened to the ACC's academic integrity?...."Rutgers was off the table before"....and so was the ACC's chances for relevence!

 

[Adios]

....and so was the ACC's chances for relevence!

The ACC will keep the citizens of NC and VA happy. I guess that's all that matters since half the schools are in those states.

 

[upstater]

No,everyone knew at that time where RU was headed and after Neb move in "10/11" the B1G started looking for a partner for RU whom was earmarked to be ND's if they joined in "10/11"!After the Nebraska move it was announced MD was in talks about a possible move w/RU !!Just the fact you passed on UConn shows your lack of vision!What happened to the ACC's academic integrity?...."Rutgers was off the table before"....and so was the ACC's chances for relevence!

Yeah, I don't buy this idea that the B1G was blocking the ACC with the Rutgers move. The ACC made its strategy plain when it went after UConn, Cuse and Pitt.

 

[woomba]

Yeah, I don't buy this idea that the B1G was blocking the ACC with the Rutgers move. The ACC made its strategy plain when it went after UConn, Cuse and Pitt.

That strategy changed after FSU started making threats - that's the primary reason why Louisville was ultimately taken. That decision looks like a genius move in retrospect because they happened to win both a BCS game and an NCAA titles last year but if you look at the situation back around Rutgers was added Rutgers probably would've graded out higher to the FB first schools.

At the very least, that possibility was very real and forced the Big Ten to act first, which was why they didn't announce just Maryland as #13 and wait a few months for a #14 to appear.

 

[upstater]

That strategy changed after FSU started making threats - that's the primary reason why Louisville was ultimately taken. That decision looks like a genius move in retrospect because they happened to win both a BCS game and an NCAA titles last year but if you look at the situation back around Rutgers was added Rutgers probably would've graded out higher to the FB first schools.

At the very least, that possibility was very real and forced the Big Ten to act first, which was why they didn't announce just Maryland as #13 and wait a few months for a #14 to appear.

So, wait a minute. If Rutgers graded out higher than Louisville, then why would the ACC go after Cuse and UConn first? And FSU thinks Cuse and UConn are inferior to Louisville? It doesn't make sense. ACC didn't come sniffing around Rutgers at all.

 

[adbern7]

The ACC will keep the citizens of NC and VA happy. I guess that's all that matters since half the schools are in those states.

Yes the ACC is factionalized...but so is every other conference, with the possible exception of the SEC. The B1g has east/west tension. Nebraska is not happy about jumping to B1G only to find out 3 years later they're stuck in the minor division. It's like B8/SWC merger redux for them, being stuck in the B12 North with Iowa St. I doubt they were thrilled at RU/Maryland when Kansas and Mizzou might have been available over the past few years. The PAC has their mishmash of elite academic schools and 2nd-tier state schools, and many members can't be thrilled that UC and Stanford will block the addition of BYU on political grounds...when that would be a fantastic add for athletic, academic, and marketing reasons. The B12 has too many issues to get into. Even the SEC has LSU and Arkansas bitching about unfair schedules and every so often glancing at the B12. There have been some articles demonstrating that that LSU having to play UF and UGA every year is the reason Bama and not LSU has gotten to the BCS title more often the past 10 years. Yes, the ACC has its 3-way split of BE schools, NC/VA schools, and Southern football schools. It may or may not hold together. But I'll repeat something I saw elsewhere, which distills through the distractions:
1) UNC wants to be the flagship school in any conference they're in
2) The SEC doesn't want FSU

As long as those two facts hold true, the ACC stick together.

 

[upstater]

The PAC has their mishmash of elite academic schools and 2nd-tier state schools, and many members can't be thrilled that UC and Stanford will block the addition of BYU on political grounds...when that would be a fantastic add for athletic, academic, and marketing reasons.

Academic? You jest.

 

[woomba]

So, wait a minute. If Rutgers graded out higher than Louisville, then why would the ACC go after Cuse and UConn first? And FSU thinks Cuse and UConn are inferior to Louisville? It doesn't make sense. ACC didn't come sniffing around Rutgers at all.

That's mostly a timing issue.

There's 3-4 month gap between the adds and the Big Ten talks about Maryland and Rutgers didn't leak until a few days before the announcement. Syracuse and Pitt were rumored throughout summer and officially announced by the ACC in September. Big Ten started the official process of adding with Maryland and Rutgers around October and announced it end of Nov. ACC then started the backfill process by looking at UConn, Louisville, and Cincinnati. If Rutgers was still on the table, then it would've been part of that discussion as well.

 

[upstater]

That's mostly a timing issue.

There's 3-4 month gap between the adds and the Big Ten talks about Maryland and Rutgers didn't leak until a few days before the announcement. Syracuse and Pitt were rumored throughout summer and officially announced by the ACC in September. Big Ten started the official process of adding with Maryland and Rutgers around October and announced it end of Nov. ACC then started the backfill process by looking at UConn, Louisville, and Cincinnati. If Rutgers was still on the table, then it would've been part of that discussion as well.

UConn was in with Syracuse in 2011. Anyway you cut it, that's 3 ahead of Rutgers, and I'd argue 4 with Louisville.