B1G, ACC battle for New York

[Sea Goat]

I honestly don't understand the ACC's direction. They had North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland locked up. All they had to do was get Rutgers and UConn and they would have locked up NJ, and NE because we all know BC is just a faint pulse even in it's own state.

But they settled for a geographic outlier (Cuse), get the distant second team in Penn. and the distant second team in Kentucky. And of course they lose Md. This is totally the opposite approach to the B!g which wants state flagship programs. Why, because flagship programs dominate their markets viewership relative to the other universities.

The ACC is always going to come in second in SC and Georgia and it looks like they may be buried in Fla. as well. They had an opportunity to increase the number of states in which they are number one and they totally went in the wrong direction with the one exception of Cuse and most of us are arguing northern NY is not getting the state of NY or NYC. Rutgers and UConn would have been the much better play for that.

Yup - and while we would take any path out of the gulag called the AAC, I hope it's the B1G that calls. It has maintained its integrity and consistency through the CR process. The ACC, on the other hand, seems scattered and desperate. How else can you explain paying homage to ND on ND's terms and inviting Louisville?

 

[Adios]

I honestly don't understand the ACC's direction. They had North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland locked up. All they had to do was get Rutgers and UConn and they would have locked up NJ, and NE because we all know BC is just a faint pulse even in it's own state.

But they settled for a geographic outlier (Cuse), get the distant second team in Penn. and the distant second team in Kentucky. And of course they lose Md. This is totally the opposite approach to the B!g which wants state flagship programs. Why, because flagship programs dominate their markets viewership relative to the other universities.

The ACC is always going to come in second in SC and Georgia and it looks like they may be buried in Fla. as well. They had an opportunity to increase the number of states in which they are number one and they totally went in the wrong direction with the one exception of Cuse and most of us are arguing northern NY is not getting the state of NY or NYC. Rutgers and UConn would have been the much better play for that.

Championships won in the past by Pitt and Syracuse. Pitt won several. They were trying to add historical programs who have won in the past. Rutgers won a split championship in 1869 and nothing since. UConn never won a championship in football. That's the only logic behind those moves. Don't underestimate Pitt football. They do attract a lot of eyeballs for television.

Otherwise, had they looked into the future, Rutgers and UConn over Syracuse and BC, at least, is a no-brainer. Stupid, stupid, stupid decision. Oh well.

 

[upstater]

I honestly don't understand the ACC's direction. They had North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland locked up. All they had to do was get Rutgers and UConn and they would have locked up NJ, and NE because we all know BC is just a faint pulse even in it's own state.

But they settled for a geographic outlier (Cuse), get the distant second team in Penn. and the distant second team in Kentucky. And of course they lose Md. This is totally the opposite approach to the B!g which wants state flagship programs. Why, because flagship programs dominate their markets viewership relative to the other universities.

The ACC is always going to come in second in SC and Georgia and it looks like they may be buried in Fla. as well. They had an opportunity to increase the number of states in which they are number one and they totally went in the wrong direction with the one exception of Cuse and most of us are arguing northern NY is not getting the state of NY or NYC. Rutgers and UConn would have been the much better play for that.

If Miami becomes a basketcase school (it's trending that way), the ACC will be seen as a colossal bust.

 

[ctchamps]

Yup - and while we would take any path out of the gulag called the AAC, I hope it's the B1G that calls. It has maintained its integrity and consistency through the CR process. The ACC, on the other hand, seems scattered and desperate. How else can you explain paying homage to ND on ND's terms and inviting Louisville?

Louisville could be interesting for the ACC. I don't quite subscribe to the academic achievement of one school being impacted by another member within a conference. Each university stands on its own merit. Ville didn't impact UConn as a member of the BE. The big discrepancy should be academic standards for athletes. I suspect NC's football team and the ongoing investigation at Miami says it all and more than likely universities have lost their moral compass when it comes to athletics. Therefore the lower standards of student admissions by Ville will have no impact in the ACC. It looks like the SEC has set the standards for the country.

ND could really hurt the ACC. ND will more than likely sabotage a conference than help it. The ACC is going for short term gains that will severely prevent long term gains. Hoping the prettiest girl gives you the final goal when she kisses you can really prevent you from looking for the less sexy one who would really give you satisfaction.

The B!G most likely will be second or third in football as a conference. They may have a blip here or there but I think their best years are past them. What is interesting is bb. UConn could really make the B!G competitive with the ACC. If UConn goes to the ACC that conference would be a super version of the the former BE.

I just don't like the politics in the ACC! It is a version of the BE with a strong divide between basketball and football centric attitudes. The B!G has it's own political flaws and pettiness. But imo, it is far more balanced as a conference. After suffering with the machinations of the BE and it's breakup, if UConn was by some magical chance offered the opportunity to get into either the ACC or the B!G my overwhelming choice would be to the B!G because of this.

 

[ctchamps]

Championships won in the past by Pitt and Syracuse. Pitt won several. They were trying to add historical programs who have won in the past. Rutgers won a split championship in 1869 and nothing since. UConn never won a championship in football. That's the only logic behind those moves. Don't underestimate Pitt football. They do attract a lot of eyeballs for television.

Otherwise, had they looked into the future, Rutgers and UConn over Syracuse and BC, at least, is a no-brainer. Stupid, stupid, stupid decision. Oh well.

I was only looking at the metrics of shooting for the most eyes. All the programs the ACC took were quality programs. But the Delaney model is more intelligent imo. Get the biggest fish in every pond and not worry about the size of the pond. Outside of Northwestern of course. The ACC made good defensive moves and survived but they didn't make offensive moves that could put them at the level of the the three strong conferences.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

If Miami becomes a basketcase school (it's trending that way), the ACC will be seen as a colossal bust.

I don't think there's any way the ACC can avoid it

 

[Adios]

Miami = BC South.

 

[Sea Goat]

Championships won in the past by Pitt and Syracuse. Pitt won several. They were trying to add historical programs who have won in the past. Rutgers won a split championship in 1869 and nothing since. UConn never won a championship in football. That's the only logic behind those moves. Don't underestimate Pitt football. They do attract a lot of eyeballs for television.

Otherwise, had they looked into the future, Rutgers and UConn over Syracuse and BC, at least, is a no-brainer. Stupid, stupid, stupid decision. Oh well.

Yup as to your over-all conclusion. A little history is also in order re: Pitt football, however. Pitt has one title in the modern era - 1976. That year, Pitt was the undisputed national champion and a great football team. Majors was the coach and Dorsett was running the ball. Before that however, Pitt had not won a "title" since 1937 and split that with Cal. In the Big East, Pitt and UConn each shared two football titles. Syracuse won one national title in 1959 and split that with Mississippi. Syracuse won many BE titles but were not in the national picture. BC's rep was largely a result of one game vs. Miami in 1984. No titles, however.

Not exactly Bama, OU, Miami, USC etc - type performances.

 

[JayRU09]

Pitt has had one high rated game in the past few years and it was because Cincy was undefeated. with 'Pitt attracts a lot of eyeballs'.

 

[btstimpy]

If Miami becomes a basketcase school (it's trending that way), the ACC will be seen as a colossal bust.

I don't see Miami trending toward basketcase at all. I'm not sure how you are qualifying this. The Miami Men's basketball team had its best season in school history this past season winning the ACC regular season championship and tournament championship. Their women's basketball team finished fifth in the ACC and made the NCAA tournament. Their football team has rebuilt itself under Al Golden after falling behind under Randy Shannon. They are picked to win the Coastal Division, and have a test with the Florida Gators. Their Olympic Sports have improved since they have been in the ACC. I'd say baseball has gone a little backwards, but the ACC is a tough baseball conference.

The basketcase school in the ACC is the University of Maryland. They have been for 3 decades, and they will continue to be one at their new home. I have no doubt whatsoever. They are a short termer in the ACC at this point. Here is some more information on this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...a58258-0423-11e3-88d6-d5795fab4637_story.html

 

[Adios]

Pitt has had one high rated game in the past few years and it was because Cincy was undefeated. with 'Pitt attracts a lot of eyeballs'.

That's according to market researchers, not me. with your huge ego.

 

[upstater]

I don't see Miami trending toward basketcase at all. I'm not sure how you are qualifying this. The Miami Men's basketball team had its best season in school history this past season winning the ACC regular season championship and tournament championship. Their women's basketball team finished fifth in the ACC and made the NCAA tournament. Their football team has rebuilt itself under Al Golden after falling behind under Randy Shannon. They are picked to win the Coastal Division, and have a test with the Florida Gators. Their Olympic Sports have improved since they have been in the ACC. I'd say baseball has gone a little backwards, but the ACC is a tough baseball conference.

The basketcase school in the ACC is the University of Maryland. They have been for 3 decades, and they will continue to be one at their new home. I have no doubt whatsoever. They are a short termer in the ACC at this point. Here is some more information on this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...a58258-0423-11e3-88d6-d5795fab4637_story.html

Uh, Miami is going to get pummeled by the NCAA.

 

[btstimpy]

Uh, Miami is going to get pummeled by the NCAA.

Miami has already self imposed 2 post season bowl bans and opted out of participating in an ACC Football Championship Game. That committee will appreciate this. Part of this involves basketball too. I think they might get docked a few scholarships, but I don't see more football post season bans for Miami. Maybe one in basketball.

 

[upstater]

Miami has already self imposed 2 post season bowl bans and opted out of participating in an ACC Football Championship Game. That committee will appreciate this. Part of this involves basketball too. I think they might get docked a few scholarships, but I don't see more football post season bans for Miami. Maybe one in basketball.

The NCAA will come down harder. The NCAA screwed up the UConn investigation in the same way by getting a doctor to violate federal law. It didn't stop them from imposing additional sanctions.

 

[adbern7]

Whoever wrote "I honesty don't understand the ACC's direction" could be this site's spokesperson. No, you don't. This board consistently overrates cable demographics, TV payouts, UConn's relevance in NYC and underrates athletic tradition and institutional culture. Realignment is ultimately decided on the field and in the Trustees' offices...not on powerpoint. [Rutgers is the exception that proves the rule]. That is why UConn got temporarily left behind, you have about 20 years of total relevant athletic history across all sports. Not sure what the future holds but all the other "reasons" for the way CR has panned out like it has for Uconn are a sideshow.

PS - Non UConn fans like me keep coming to this Board bc it's one of the last places on the web that still has CR discussion, generally an entertaining topic.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Whoever wrote "I honesty don't understand the ACC's direction" could be this site's spokesperson. No, you don't. This board consistently overrates cable demographics, TV payouts, UConn's relevance in NYC and underrates athletic tradition and institutional culture. Realignment is ultimately decided on the field and in the Trustees' offices...not on powerpoint. [Rutgers is the exception that proves the rule]. That is why UConn got temporarily left behind, you have about 20 years of total relevant athletic history across all sports. Not sure what the future holds but all the other "reasons" for the way CR has panned out like it has for Uconn are a sideshow.

PS - Non UConn fans like me keep coming to this Board bc it's one of the last places on the web that still has CR discussion, generally an entertaining topic.

Interesting. You chastise members of this board for not understanding the ACC's direction then proceed to offer no insight whatsoever as to where the conference might be headed. What is the ACC's direction my good man? It would be nice, were you to articulate the location of the ACC's end game, if you could relate the association between recent moves they've made and those ultimate objectives. If not, if all you have for us is derogatory commentary about our current state of affairs, well, we're more capable than you of discussing that on our own.

 

[upstater]

Whoever wrote "I honesty don't understand the ACC's direction" could be this site's spokesperson. No, you don't. This board consistently overrates cable demographics, TV payouts, UConn's relevance in NYC and underrates athletic tradition and institutional culture. Realignment is ultimately decided on the field and in the Trustees' offices...not on powerpoint. [Rutgers is the exception that proves the rule]. That is why UConn got temporarily left behind, you have about 20 years of total relevant athletic history across all sports. Not sure what the future holds but all the other "reasons" for the way CR has panned out like it has for Uconn are a sideshow.

PS - Non UConn fans like me keep coming to this Board bc it's one of the last places on the web that still has CR discussion, generally an entertaining topic.

So, we're supposed to listen to a blowhard fan of a school in CNY instead of actual quotes and articles showing UConn was a first choice until our nemesis BC blocked them in committee, that right?

 

[adbern7]

Interesting. You chastise members of this board for not understanding the ACC's direction then proceed to offer no insight whatsoever as to where the conference might be headed. What is the ACC's direction my good man? It would be nice, were you to articulate the location of the ACC's end game, if you could relate the association between recent moves they've made and those ultimate objectives. If not, if all you have for us is derogatory commentary about our current state of affairs, well, we're more capable than you of discussing that on our own.

Like all the major conferences, the ACC's endgame is simple: be viable and relevant in the national discussion and continue the athletic success and traditions of the member institutions. Sure, one of the means to this end is healthy AD budgets via strong revenue, but it's just one of the means. All the conferences have strengths and weaknesses, cores and compromises. To answer your question, the ACC's recent moves of adding Cuse and Pitt were obvious additions of eastern, like-minded academic institutions with strong athletic traditions. Please guys stop talking about UConn's 2 BCS bids recently, soooooo irrelevant. The moves were not made to "lock up NYC" or for some other phrase that only CR bloggers use. The ND move gives league members 5 annual OOC games (i still consider ND OOC) against a strong opponent with great traditions. As a longtime Big East fan i'm hugely skeptical of ND, but I do think if they're ever forced to join a conference due to NCAA changes, it will be the ACC. Louisville was added out of a position of weakness, the Maryland move took the ACC by surprise. Jury is definitely still out on whether UL's football success can be sustained long enough to justify what's obviously an academic compromise. But again, the move was done for on-the-field reasons, not demographics. Not a terrible "endgame" strategy...have compelling contests.
Who knows if ACC succeeds - again success defined as long term national relevance for the member schools - or whether UConn is a part of it or another conference. But keep something in mind, there's a reason Alabama, Texas, UNC, FSU, UF, OU, Penn St, UGA, OSU, Mich, and ND don't just start the NFL AAA league: they each want to be alpha dogs in their own backyard. It's why B1G will never get UNC. Or why FSU will never go B12. Success is not having to care about what other conferences are doing. Just enjoying your own traditions.

 

[SouthronCross]

I honestly don't understand the ACC's direction. They had North Carolina, Virginia and Maryland locked up. All they had to do was get Rutgers and UConn and they would have locked up NJ, and NE because we all know BC is just a faint pulse even in it's own state.

But they settled for a geographic outlier (Cuse), get the distant second team in Penn. and the distant second team in Kentucky. And of course they lose Md. This is totally the opposite approach to the B!g which wants state flagship programs. Why, because flagship programs dominate their markets viewership relative to the other universities.

The ACC is always going to come in second in SC and Georgia and it looks like they may be buried in Fla. as well. They had an opportunity to increase the number of states in which they are number one and they totally went in the wrong direction with the one exception of Cuse and most of us are arguing northern NY is not getting the state of NY or NYC. Rutgers and UConn would have been the much better play for that.

I understand why we catch grief for not adding UConn, which was a big mistake by the ACC, IMHO. I do not see bypassing RU as a mistake, though.

Other than their geographic location, what else about them can we sell to the likes of FSU, CU, GT, VPI, or, Miami? What else justifies them as a 'must add' type of school?

 

[SouthronCross]

I was only looking at the metrics of shooting for the most eyes. All the programs the ACC took were quality programs. But the Delaney model is more intelligent imo. Get the biggest fish in every pond and not worry about the size of the pond. Outside of Northwestern of course. The ACC made good defensive moves and survived but they didn't make offensive moves that could put them at the level of the the three strong conferences.

If the ACC can begin winning big football games again (like in the '90s), we will be fine. Then, all of the disparaging will disappear. Hopefully, UConn will be along for the ride when that happens.

 

[NickyNewark]

I understand why we catch grief for not adding UConn, which was a big mistake by the ACC, IMHO. I do not see bypassing RU as a mistake, though.

Other than their geographic location, what else about them can we sell to the likes of FSU, CU, GT, VPI, or, Miami? What else justifies them as a 'must add' type of school?

If you don't know your not very smart!!Think your smarter than Delany and all his high paid research firms?Your quite obviously a jealous Cuse troll!For one they "RU" have been on the B1Gs radar for 20 yrs and Jopa and Glen Mason have been pushing for them for years and for another 8 bowls in 9 years plus population,location and great recruiting base made them an obvious plum that Swoffy was to dumb or lacked the vision to see!!People like you are so obviously jealous as it makes me wonder about your "lack of vision"!!RU and Uconn would have done what SU and BC will never do...(pay there way)!!It took 20 years behind the scenes work and you in a few posts think you have all the answers?Get a life and quit trying to kiss here!Loser!SouthRonLoss!!

 

[NickyNewark]

VPI FB blueblood?CU?whose that?GT a power?50 years ago maybe when FSU was a girls school!The ACC is a 2 or 3 school conference...get off your high horse coming here trying to ass kizz your way into good graces!What do you say on SU's boards?Talking about RU you must be an Alabama or LSU fan cause no one in the ACC is better than RU...maybe FSU right now but NO ONE else is on a higher plane !

 

[NickyNewark]

Take care of business at home first....middling NC? Seriously?

 

[Fishy]

VPI FB blueblood?CU?whose that?GT a power?50 years ago maybe when FSU was a girls school!The ACC is a 2 or 3 school conference...get off your high horse coming here trying to ass kizz your way into good graces!What do you say on SU's boards?Talking about RU you must be an Alabama or LSU fan cause no one in the ACC is better than RU...maybe FSU right now but NO ONE else is on a higher plane !

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