Astros/Red Sox Cheating Scandal

[the Q]

Cora’s going down and I don’t feel good about what the Sox did but by all accounts they were not cheating during the 2018 playoffs.

Nobody was sharing signs with Mookie, I can tell you that.

Cora is going down and a very bad farm system will get worse.

 

[CTBasketball]

Cora’s going down and I don’t feel good about what the Sox did but by all accounts they were not cheating during the 2018 playoffs.

Nobody was sharing signs with Mookie, I can tell you that.

If you remove Mookie’s 2018 season he turns into a career .290 hitter. I also find it ironic how Altuve (2017) and Betts (2018) won MVP with ridiculously good numbers and high BA’s.

 

[methodology]

After thinking about it the Braves punishment a few years ago over singing international prospects might be worse.

They lost the 9 guys they signed and $15 million they used to sign those players

 

[The Viking]

Cora will get 2 years and the Sox will likely let him go if that's the case. What the Red Sox did compared to the Astros is not really in the same ballpark (pardon the pun) but there's blood in the water and this is Cora's second offense. I still can't believe they came down this hard on the Astros.

Considering they Yankees were caught in 2015 with using video to steal signs it makes you wonder if they've recently found another way to let the hitter know what's coming outside of using the video room.

When you consider how many of their unheralded guys turn into big contributors once they reach the Bronx, it's not something to dismiss.

Example, Luke Voit's highest HR total in the minors was 19 back in 1916. In 2018, St. Louis has seen enough where they are ready to move on from him for Carson Shreve. He spends time in the minors and hits 10 HR's in 303 at bats. Then he gets called up to the Bronx and while he's facing the best pitching in his life, he hits 15 HR's in 161 at bats.

Then you have the hiring of Carlos Beltran by the Yankees in Dec 2018 - the same guy who was instrumental in the 2017 Astros cheating scandal - and we watch guys like Urshela, Tauchman, Maybin - hell even Mike Ford have impactful seasons out of nowhere. Oh yeah and then Brett Gardner and his 28 homers.

Something to think about.

 

[David 76]

[QUOTE="The Viking, post: 3398238, member
When you consider how many of their unheralded guys turn into big contributors once they reach the Bronx

Then you have the hiring of Carlos Beltran by the Yankees in Dec 2018 - the same guy who was instrumental in the 2017 Astros cheating scandal - and we watch guys like Urshela, Tauchman, Maybin - hell even Mike Ford have impactful seasons out of nowhere. Oh yeah and then Brett Gardner and his 28 homers.

Something to think about.
[/QUOTE]

Nice try

 

[temery]

Why is stealing signals against the rules? Use better signals.

 

[SixRings]

Why is stealing signals against the rules? Use better signals.

it’s been part of the game since it’s inception. That’s where MLB has a hard time. If I’m correct, now the rule is that you can’t use electronics to assist in stealing signs.

 

[Martin]

This must be why guys step out of the batters box so often because they’re waiting for the signal.
Moe important how does this impact my fantasy draft?

 

[mauconnfan]

Cora will get 2 years and the Sox will likely let him go if that's the case. What the Red Sox did compared to the Astros is not really in the same ballpark (pardon the pun) but there's blood in the water and this is Cora's second offense. I still can't believe they came down this hard on the Astros.

Considering they Yankees were caught in 2015 with using video to steal signs it makes you wonder if they've recently found another way to let the hitter know what's coming outside of using the video room.

When you consider how many of their unheralded guys turn into big contributors once they reach the Bronx, it's not something to dismiss.

Example, Luke Voit's highest HR total in the minors was 19 back in 1916. In 2018, St. Louis has seen enough where they are ready to move on from him for Carson Shreve. He spends time in the minors and hits 10 HR's in 303 at bats. Then he gets called up to the Bronx and while he's facing the best pitching in his life, he hits 15 HR's in 161 at bats.

Then you have the hiring of Carlos Beltran by the Yankees in Dec 2018 - the same guy who was instrumental in the 2017 Astros cheating scandal - and we watch guys like Urshela, Tauchman, Maybin - hell even Mike Ford have impactful seasons out of nowhere. Oh yeah and then Brett Gardner and his 28 homers.

Something to think about.

And better hitters like Judge, Didi not having good years explain that one. And not for nothing if you watched Sanchez last year he looked like a guy who never knew what pitch was coming, ever! And you can blame the 28 HRs for gardner on HGH or something, thats rampant in the game all over anyway, but his crappy average once again shows he wasn't sure what was on it's way to the plate.

Love the effort though, if the Sox get caught everyone else is doing it. And the HR totals in the minors on Voit, want to go through yours? What has Pearce ever done until playing for the Sox? LOL

 

[CTBasketball]

Cora will get 2 years and the Sox will likely let him go if that's the case. What the Red Sox did compared to the Astros is not really in the same ballpark (pardon the pun) but there's blood in the water and this is Cora's second offense. I still can't believe they came down this hard on the Astros.

Considering they Yankees were caught in 2015 with using video to steal signs it makes you wonder if they've recently found another way to let the hitter know what's coming outside of using the video room.

When you consider how many of their unheralded guys turn into big contributors once they reach the Bronx, it's not something to dismiss.

Example, Luke Voit's highest HR total in the minors was 19 back in 1916. In 2018, St. Louis has seen enough where they are ready to move on from him for Carson Shreve. He spends time in the minors and hits 10 HR's in 303 at bats. Then he gets called up to the Bronx and while he's facing the best pitching in his life, he hits 15 HR's in 161 at bats.

Then you have the hiring of Carlos Beltran by the Yankees in Dec 2018 - the same guy who was instrumental in the 2017 Astros cheating scandal - and we watch guys like Urshela, Tauchman, Maybin - hell even Mike Ford have impactful seasons out of nowhere. Oh yeah and then Brett Gardner and his 28 homers.

Something to think about.

You do know that the lack of scouting on Luke Voit at the MLB level, and his opposite field power at Yankee Stadium have more of a reason for his breakout season than falsely raising the question that the Yankees were cheating?

 

[the Q]

Why is stealing signals against the rules? Use better signals.

Stealing signs is not against the rule. Using technology to steal signs is.

 

[Husky pride]

Oh cmon, please don’t play so naive and assume with today’s technology that none of the other 28 teams was doing anything similar. Especially an organization with the resources of the Yankees.

Will this tired excuse “Everybody does it” ever leave us? I can see it being used by my kids, but by adults looking for an “Out” that doesn’t rightfully exist is rather sad.

 

[Excalibur]

This must be why guys step out of the batters box so often because they’re waiting for the signal.
Moe important how does this impact my fantasy draft?

Guys stepping out on every pitch long predates this issue. In fact, the stepping out has become less prevalent.

There's still some investigating to do on the Red Sox side of things. I don't think they've closed the loop on transmitting signals in real time to hitters, but I admit I'm not completely up to speed on where things stand.

 

[Dogdeacon]

What a dumb situation on all sides. The cheating, the penalties, the individuals doing it and now MLB and its fans. This literally could be a plot from football and basketball to make baseball even less relevant.

Why anger is boiling behind the scenes about Astros' sign-stealing punishments

MLB's discipline and the franchise's firing of its manager and GM made for a great show about taking a hard-line stance. But here's why many across baseball feel Houston's owner got off easy.

www.espn.com

 

[Husky25]

The Red Sox lost 3 games in the 2018 Playoffs, one in each series. Two of those losses were at Fenway.

Jackie Bradley Jr. hit .200 in the 5 game ALCS and his heroics mostly came in Minute Maid Park in games 3 and 4.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

After thinking about it the Braves punishment a few years ago over singing international prospects might be worse.

They lost the 9 guys they signed and $15 million they used to sign those players

For an infraction that by most accounts was an almost ubiquitous practice (bundling prospects). And the GM received a lifetime ban. It’s still a bit of a head-scratching punishment to me especially in light of the Astros punishment.

 

[superjohn]

The Red Sox lost 3 games in the 2018 Playoffs, one in each series. Two of those losses were at Fenway.

Jackie Bradley Jr. hit .200 in the 5 game ALCS and his heroics mostly came in Minute Maid Park in games 3 and 4.

That has nothing to do with anything.

 

[UConnStats]

Cora is going down and a very bad farm system will get worse.

At least they have Bloom now who doesn’t treat the farm like it’s a piggy bank. This year’s draft class is deep though, so it’s not ideal.

I don’t think they’ll get his as hard in the draft as the Astros did. Maybe one year of the same penalty or maybe lesser value picks.

Cora is obviously smoked. I can see Sam Fuld getting a shot. Big analytics guy, respected in Philly’s front office, and Bloom probably knows him from his time playing for the Rays. The Sox spend a lot, but they need to focus on value/and building the farm back up.

 

[The Viking]

And better hitters like Judge, Didi not having good years explain that one. And not for nothing if you watched Sanchez last year he looked like a guy who never knew what pitch was coming, ever! And you can blame the 28 HRs for gardner on HGH or something, thats rampant in the game all over anyway, but his crappy average once again shows he wasn't sure what was on it's way to the plate.

Love the effort though, if the Sox get caught everyone else is doing it. And the HR totals in the minors on Voit, want to go through yours? What has Pearce ever done until playing for the Sox? LOL

When the yankees were getting caught up in the steroid scandal you were saying the Sox and others were doing it...and you were right to your credit. What's the difference?
The yankees were using video back in 2015 to steal signs, you really think they've found God? They hired Beltran and all these no names go off.
I'm just saying it's rampant and it's reasonable to think that especially with Beltran in the fold they were doing stuff.

 

[Husky25]

That has nothing to do with anything.

Discount the fact that MLB personnel were in the video room during the playoffs, "...The Astros could only pull this off during home games (when they had access to the video feed). As a result, a number of Houston players had way better stats at home than on the road."

Stands to reason that the Red Sox could only "pull it off" at home as well.

Be that as it may, if Cora broke the rules in Boston and/or in Houston, he should get what he gets, especially if it is a written rule and his club was the reason for the original warning memo. Doesn't matter to me. It's all entertainment to me at this point.

I won't absolve MLB though. How in the world do the powers that be expect the franchises to self police in this fashion, less than two decades after a PED scandal that had it's roots in the early 1960s.

Unwritten rules are not rules and are not enforceable by a governing body. Unmonitored behavior is de facto allowable. MLB is being pretty hypocritical. If it were really important, they would station an MLB employee in each video room immediately following the first memo.

 

[superjohn]

When the yankees were getting caught up in the steroid scandal you were saying the Sox and others were doing it...and you were right to your credit. What's the difference?

You mean the George Mitchell (a Red Sox director) investigation that netted a bunch of Yankees and no Red Sox where we found out later just as many or more Red Sox were on steroids? That scandal?

The difference is that was a sham to target Yankees players and absolve Red Sox players.

Red Sox management taught Red Sox players how to use roids for crissakes.

 

[RipCity]

You mean the George Mitchell (a Red Sox director) investigation that netted a bunch of Yankees and no Red Sox where we found out later just as many or more Red Sox were on steroids? That scandal?

The difference is that was a sham to target Yankees players and absolve Red Sox players.

Red Sox management taught Red Sox players how to use roids for crissakes.

Getting major homer/conspiracy theorist vibes from you in this thread

 

[superjohn]

Getting major homer/conspiracy theorist vibes from you in this thread

What have I said that's untrue?

 

[UConn990411]

Getting major homer/conspiracy theorist vibes from you in this thread

He’s a massive Boston hater, so I’ve learned to ignore his posts on these subjects.

I don’t really have a problem with the MLB coming down hard on the Astros or Red Sox, but it’s comical how lightly the Cardinals got off for a hacking scandal that involved the FBI.

 

[Towney007]

I think the punishments are pretty over the top. Sign stealing has been going on for years and it was a matter of time before someone used cameras. I'm fine with baseball banning it, but the screeching over the integrity of the game, getting people fired and basically blackballed for life is bonkers to me. It's like giving someone life for their second pot offense.

Fine with imposing some sort of tax (that would really hurt a team - both financially and on the field) and even taking away picks. A few low level suspensions is fine. But this stuff seems like punishment fetish to me. I think the overall reaction to it has been completely insane and ultimately - it's going to do more to harm the game than help it.

My point being - i'm fine with them outlawing it, but jeez - let's relax a little. It's sign stealing, not something like say... beating your wife until she choked on her own teeth. Or hacking into another team's database and getting caught by the FBI.

As for what actually happens - while I don't think he should get iced for it - I think Cora's gonna get fired.