Astros/Red Sox Cheating Scandal

[Padutch5]

I take it you aren’t a fan of the nfl either? Way more turnover in the nfl than mlb.

I should have added that as I get older, MLB gets slower and slower. I know the players offense it, but the rules the Florida league used last year are a considerable improvement. Limited number of trips to mound, a timer on trips to the mound and a timer between pitches all help speed it up.
As a matter of fact, yes I can no longer watch an NFL game In its entirety. The actual amount of action in a game is pretty small. The inability of the NFL to figure out how to use instant replay also puts the integrity of the game into question,

 

[The Viking]

I must admit I am amazed by this whole “cheating scandal”. I no longer follow baseball that closely because I cant follow the movement of players from team to team. I find it hard to believe that with the movement of players out of the Astros and maybe the Red Sox, that when those players arrived at their new team, they didn’t let their new teams know what was going on.

They do. Beltran left NY and went to Houston (quick pit stop with the Rangers in between), and told Houston they were way behind the times in sign stealing and then he started doing his thing.
Meanwhile Chris Young went from NY to Boston and as Heath Hembree said, Young "spilled the beans" on everything NY was doing. Peter Gammons said Young told him once that the Apple Watch thing started with NY. Young denied it, and Gammons apologized. I get the feeling Gammons realized he let something out that was off the record and he did heavy backtracking to save Young.
Point being stuff is shared when players go to other teams. I would assume one of the reasons Cashman brought Beltran back was to find out what Houston was doing.

 

[CTBasketball]

Players should be held accountable. I know a lot of guys here like Springer, but he’s one of them and I wouldn’t mind seeing him get plunked with the rest of them. Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Reddick...throw at them all, slide into them hard, cleat them high. It’s what they deserve.

 

[Padutch5]

They do. Beltran left NY and went to Houston (quick pit stop with the Rangers in between), and told Houston they were way behind the times in sign stealing and then he started doing his thing.
Meanwhile Chris Young went from NY to Boston and as Heath Hembree said, Young "spilled the beans" on everything NY was doing. Peter Gammons said Young told him once that the Apple Watch thing started with NY. Young denied it, and Gammons apologized. I get the feeling Gammons realized he let something out that was off the record and he did heavy backtracking to save Young.
Point being stuff is shared when players go to other teams. I would assume one of the reasons Cashman brought Beltran back was to find out what Houston was doing.

So if these other teams knew about it they either ignored it or began to do it themselves. Me thinks these other teams protesters too much. In other words, fake anger.

 

[Adios]

Integrity in professional sports is an oxymoron at the highest levels. As history proves.

 

[Scoe]

Integrity in professional sports is an oxymoron at the highest levels. As history proves.

So it’s ok for everybody to steal from stores because well history has shown it’s happened before.

 

[the Q]

So it’s ok for everybody to steal from stores because well history has shown it’s happened before.

yeah. No. That’s that weird Patriots fan logic. If The Sox cheated and got caught, then they deserve the punishment. Much like when cherington chested for international FAs (costing them valuable trade chips).

 

[Deadrody]

The Red Sox rank 3rd in the majors for "homegrown talent" based on this detailed analysis.

Ranking All 30 MLB Teams on Homegrown Talent Entering 2019

All 30 MLB teams put different emphases on building from within and cultivating homegrown talent. A lot of that has to do with payroll...

bleacherreport.com

Eh, incomplete analysis. "Home Grown" should also include guys you traded for, not just players that spent all their time in the minors with one team. Obviously not a great example, but the Yankees got A-Rod for one of their home grown guys - Soriano. Getting players you signed as minor league free agents, or drafted, is not the only goal of a team's minor league system. Really funny thing is, that analysis going INTO 2019 missed out on a lot of guys that made major contributions - Voit, Tauchman, Urshela. Heck, They got Gregorious from AZ for minor league guys. They also missed out on guys like German, and even Paxton, who they got in trade for Sheffield and others. Someone else would have to do the math for other teams (without knowing the team closely, it's a lot of work) but by my count, that puts the Yankees "Home Grown" fWAR for last season at ~34, rather than their projected 17.

 

[Deadrody]

The Ringer - Cheating Scandal is Self Sustaining

Crazy good article about this. Even crazier is accusations and confessions of the same basic sign stealing scheme using buzzers or leg placement from a guy in CF back in 1948 and 1951, among others

 

[Waquoit]

Yanks did nothing or else they wouldn't even think of spouting off as much as they are about the cheaters.

This New York Post article has Mark Teixiera admitting the Yankees cheated but insists it's not the same as the Astros because they weren't good at it.

 

[HuskyBaggins]

This New York Post article has Mark Teixiera admitting the Yankees cheated but insists it's not the same as the Astros because they weren't good at it.

Uh, no. Every team in baseball does what he's talking about.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

This New York Post article has Mark Teixiera admitting the Yankees cheated but insists it's not the same as the Astros because they weren't good at it.

The problem for Houston (and possibly the Red Sox) is that the Astros used video capture, data mining (a very complicated Excel file), and electronic (and manual trashcans/whistling) to decode signs in real-time. That had not been done before and MLB became concerned about it and warned 1 team (the Red Sox) and everyone else in 2014 not to do so. Houston Boston ignored that warning at their own peril.

Sign stealing has been part of base since there was baseball, for better or worse. But as Teixiera said, it was an inexact science involving trail and error and took time to put together in a game that usually resulted in mixed results even when game time video became widely available. It was a manual system that required a lot of coordination, patience and trail and error, and a pitcher who had a tendency to tip his pitches in the first place. Basically, the batters had to 'earn' this edge. Such a system may help batter against a starting pitcher who has thrown 100+ pitches over the course of 6 or 7 innings.

Through the use of technology, the Astros system helped batters against a pitcher in his 1st inning on the mound (see Chapman in Game 7). They didn't earn it. That's the big issue. That and the fact that it DID impact the outcome of game and DID impact player's lives, and finances.

 

[The Viking]

Chapman likely got beat because he couldn't throw a fastball for a strike to save his life and any smart hitter in that spot was probably looking slider and Chapman hung a fat pitch.

The Yankees scored three runs in four games in Houston in 2017. That's the biggest reason they lost that series - far bigger than the trash can.

What the astros did was egregious no doubt - but in both series its certainly probable the yankees lost because they just deserved to.

 

[HuskyBaggins]

Chapman likely got beat because he couldn't throw a fastball for a strike to save his life and any smart hitter in that spot was probably looking slider and Chapman hung a fat pitch.

The Yankees scored three runs in four games in Houston in 2017. That's the biggest reason they lost that series - far bigger than the trash can.

What the astros did was egregious no doubt - but in both series its certainly probable the yankees lost because they just deserved to.

The real point was that perhaps the Yankees should have had home field advantage in 2017, if not for the Astros record due to their cheating. Since each team won all their games at home, that would kinda be a big deal.