Astros/Red Sox Cheating Scandal

[methodology]

that scene is what makes baseball the single greatest game in the world.

also a ten second clock would basically mean the pitcher can’t shake the catcher off.

A lot of people don't understand/ fully appreciate the game within the game. Every pitch is a chess match and then the waste pitches to set up a pitch later in the game or the next at bat.

Then everything that the fielders are doing even if the ball isn't hit to them. Relay throws that are executed perfectly are some of greatest plays.

It's the best sport around but not everyone sees/understands the intricacies and that's fine to each their own.

 

[methodology]

The catcher know what's coming: a baseball.

Try catching a 100 mph fastball when you think a curve or change up is coming. The spin looks the same at first and by the time you realize it's something other than you expected it's too late.

 

[Husky25]

The catcher know what's coming: a baseball.

I feel like I'm being trolled. Whether it's intentional or not, congratulations on the last word.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'm entirely indifferent to what the teams were doing.
While not nearly as old as baseball fans, I do know enough to know if your boss doesn't like something you are doing, gathers everyone up and tells you to stop doing it, and your immediate reaction is to double down on doing it??? You deserve whatever comes your way.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Why does sign stealing have to be illegal? In basketball teams routinely study video to try and steal signs of what play a team is going to run, tendencies etc. And of course they know each other sets. Who cares? In football steroids have been part of the game forever and the penalty is a slap on the wrist.

But Baseball is just a weird sport obsessed with stats and history that coming generations do not care about. Stripping titles is so 'NCAA' and useless that I cannot believe adults consider it even in conversation.

 

[fgbrault]

Any member of mangement who knew of the stealing of signals and all who knowingly participated in the stealing of signals, such as using the information when at bat, should be permanently banned from baseball and the teams should forfeit all games, including playoff and World Series games. This is the only way to handle cheating and keep basebal 'clean'.

 

[fgbrault]

Why does sign stealing have to be illegal? In basketball teams routinely study video to try and steal signs of what play a team is going to run, tendencies etc. And of course they know each other sets. Who cares? In football steroids have been part of the game forever and the penalty is a slap on the wrist.

But Baseball is just a weird sport obsessed with stats and history that coming generations do not care about. Stripping titles is so 'NCAA' and useless that I cannot believe adults consider it even in conversation.

The cheating would be gone if they banned all proven cheaters for life. Cheating should never be part of sport as it is its antithesis.

 

[Husky25]

Any member of mangement who knew of the stealing of signals and all who knowingly participated in the stealing of signals, such as using the information when at bat, should be permanently banned from baseball and the teams should forfeit all games, including playoff and World Series games. This is the only way to handle cheating and keep basebal 'clean'.

Deciphering signals is not illegal.

 

[HuskyHawk]

that scene is what makes baseball the single greatest game in the world.

also a ten second clock would basically mean the pitcher can’t shake the catcher off.

I'm old enough to have watched a lot of baseball in the 70's. It just didn't happen to the extent it does now. So much analytics. They stand on the mound and dramatically over-think each pitch. Really, if you execute any one of three-four pitches well it probably goes well for the pitcher. If he chooses the right pitch and executes it badly, it goes badly.

Baseball isn't football, and even football, where what is being decided each is far far more complex and important, they do it within a play clock. With baseball I can go to the bathroom, get a beer and maybe they've thrown a pitch or two. I used to love the game, now I can barely watch it.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I'd also add, if pitchers, batters and catchers were still able to police the game with a well executed pitch between the shoulder blades, much of this could have been taken care of on the field.

 

[the Q]

I'm old enough to have watched a lot of baseball in the 70's. It just didn't happen to the extent it does now. So much analytics. They stand on the mound and dramatically over-think each pitch. Really, if you execute any one of three-four pitches well it probably goes well for the pitcher. If he chooses the right pitch and executes it badly, it goes badly.

Baseball isn't football, and even football, where what is being decided each is far far more complex and important, they do it within a play clock. With baseball I can go to the bathroom, get a beer and maybe they've thrown a pitch or two. I used to love the game, now I can barely watch it.

It’s not more complex or important. Each pitch is a snap.

And the playclock is 40 seconds. Almost every pitcher is faster than that minus the few shake off step offs or throws over to first

 

[Husky25]

It’s not more complex or important. Each pitch is a snap.

And the playclock is 40 seconds. Almost every pitcher is faster than that minus the few shake off step offs or throws over to first

There are about 130 total plays in a football game. Pitches routinely number in the 300s. The pitch clock needs to be about 15 seconds or so to have any effect. Evidently, there is a, current unenforced, time limit or else the lack of delivery should be called a ball.

 

[Dove]

...
My point being - i'm fine with them outlawing it, but jeez - let's relax a little. It's sign stealing, not something like say... beating your wife until she choked on her own teeth. Or hacking into another team's database and getting caught by the FBI.
...

In 2016 the Cardinals hacked the Astros player database. The scouting director involved was sentenced to 4 years in prison for corporate espionage.

Here were the penalties to the Cardinals:

1. A $2 million payment to the Astros, which must be paid within 30 days.
2. The Cardinals' two highest picks in the 2017 draft are being awarded to the Astros.
3. Correa (scouting director) has been placed on the permanently ineligible list. He's banned from baseball.

 

[the Q]

In 2016 the Cardinals hacked the Astros player database. The scouting director involved was sentenced to 4 years in prison for corporate espionage.

Here were the penalties to the Cardinals:

1. A $2 million payment to the Astros, which must be paid within 30 days.
2. The Cardinals' two highest picks in the 2017 draft are being awarded to the Astros.
3. Correa (scouting director) has been placed on the permanently ineligible list. He's banned from baseball.

the Cardinals then signed a top fa to lose their first round pick so the astros didn’t get a real first rounder.

the commish at least learned from that mistake.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I grew up a Yankee fan and trying to steal signs was old when I played.
I was a good HS player but playing in college would have been a stretch.
Even Bobby Thompson knew what Ralph Branca was going to throw.in the shot heard round the world because the Giants stole the sign.
Getting an edge is what we called it . Typically teams changed their signs when a guy was on second because you knew he was going to steal the signs.For me it’s part of the game.
I’m real old school but all this fuss
Seems like a little overreaction at least to an old ball player like me.

 

[Husky25]

I grew up a Yankee fan and trying to steal signs was old when I played.
I was a good HS player but playing in college would have been a stretch.
Even Bobby Thompson knew what Ralph Branca was going to throw.in the shot heard round the world because the Giants stole the sign.
Getting an edge is what we called it . Typically teams changed their signs when a guy was on second because you knew he was going to steal the signs.For me it’s part of the game.
I’m real old school but all this fuss
Seems like a little overreaction at least to an old ball player like me.

No one is arguing this. It's the manner in which technology was used.

Bobby Thompson know what the pitch would still be perfectly acceptable. The scoreboard operator flashing the light from center field is what would be at issue.

 

[Husky25]

Someone is getting the definition of "sport" mixed up with "sportsmanship."

Too much money at stake to rely on franchises to police themselves.

 

[JCSuperstar]

Turn the table and make signs against the rules. Have a plan for how to pitch to each batter, and stick to it.

Then you'll just have people cheating with clandestine signs. Go the other way and let the pitcher/catcher/dugout use electronic communication too. Then you can really say 'anything goes' and teams will have their own SIGINT groups with interception, jamming, sign spoofing.... it will be great.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It’s not more complex or important. Each pitch is a snap.

And the playclock is 40 seconds. Almost every pitcher is faster than that minus the few shake off step offs or throws over to first

So you think deciding which pitch to throw among maybe 3-4, plus location, should take even 1/4 the time it takes to organize 11 men into a specific formation, then adjust that formation on the fly based on the opponent formation, then have each person execute a specific assignment unique to them? The pace of the game is terrible now compared to when I was younger. And the main reason is that both the pitcher and batter are overthinking things. Backing off, backing out, stepping in, going through signs again.

 

[auggie22]

Baseball more than any other sport is steeped in a tradition of cheating. It truly is a numbers game. Large numbers bring everyone to their rightful spot but also offer huge opportunity to those who exploit an edge. When you see a player performing beyond expectations for a full season ... they have found an edge that is probably illicit in some way.

Manny Ramirez and Papi say hi.

I am a huge Sox fan, btw.

 

[tentoes4rings]

Let’s wait for the report on the Red Sox and Cora before concluding anything. When is it likely to go down?

That’s fair. A bunch of us speculating on what’s fair, who cheats more etc is pointless. Let’s see what the investigation yields and go from there.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I don't disagree. But why does Bill Belichick need to film the Bengals sidelines?

Because it is the Boston Way. Culture is hard to escape or overcome.

 

[huskymedic]

LOL... self imposed discipline.

 

[The Viking]

You mean the George Mitchell (a Red Sox director) investigation that netted a bunch of Yankees and no Red Sox where we found out later just as many or more Red Sox were on steroids? That scandal?

The difference is that was a sham to target Yankees players and absolve Red Sox

Red Sox management taught Red Sox players how to use roids for crissakes.

You are correct about the byproduct of the investigation but what u are making out to be the intent of it is not true. The players union forbid anyone from talking with Mitchell so all he had to go by was stuff he had gotten from work done by the feds- including radomski and balco
Radomski even said they gave him a list of all MLB rosters and asked him to pick out the names he heard were connected. There was no mention of them not showing him a red sox roster.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Baseball more than any other sport is steeped in a tradition of cheating. It truly is a numbers game. Large numbers bring everyone to their rightful spot but also offer huge opportunity to those who exploit an edge. When you see a player performing beyond expectations for a full season ... they have found an edge that is probably illicit in some way.

Manny Ramirez and Papi say hi.

I am a huge Sox fan, btw.

Brady Anderson's 1996 season where he squeezed a 50 home run year in between 16 the year before and 18 the year after is my personal favorite.