Asia Durr Narrows list; topic morph circa p. 4 to Tennessee's status/outlook

[bballnut90]

Now I'm really confused. I can't tell, by your comments, if you think Tennessee underachieved in those years or not.
In 2009, Tennessee was the #5 seed in their Regional and lost to Ball St., the # 12 seed, in the first round by 16 pts.
In 2010, Tennessee was the #1 seed in their Regional and lost to Baylor, the #4 seed, in the sweet 16 by 15 pts..
In 2011, Tennessee was the #1 seed in their Regional and lost to ND, the #2 seed, in the elite 8 by 14 pts.
In 2013, Tennessee was the #2 seed in their Regional and lost to Louisville, the #5 seed, in the elite 8 by 8 pts.
In 2014, Tennessee was the #1 seed in their Regional and lost to Maryland, the # 4 seed, in the sweet 16 by 11 pts,
So in 5 0f the last 6 years (2012 being the exception) Tennessee lost to a lower ranked team in the NCAA's and by a lot with zero wins against higher ranked or even closely ranked teams in that 6 year period. I would say that is a fairly consistent record of underachievement, certainly in the NCAA's it is. I can understand not expecting a National Championship in those years but I don't see how a Tennessee fan wouldn't expect to win every one of the games listed. The only way Tennessee did not underachieve in those 5 seasons is if Lady Vol fans are satisfied with winning in the SEC and not on a national level. And I can't believe expectations have fallen that far.

Tennessee has underachieved in the NCAA tournament...not arguing that. Despite that, in 2010, 2011 and 2013 Tennessee still had overachieving seasons despite their NCAA tournament performance. In 2010, Tennessee was coming off its worst season in school history where they lost 11 games and lost in the 1st Round of the NCAA tournament. They put together a 32-3 season and lost to Brittney Griner and Baylor in the Sweet 16. It's worth noting that Tennessee had a 5 point lead with under 8 minutes to go in that game, so the game itself was much more competitive than the final margin indicates. In 2011 they put together a 34-3 season and lost to a very good Notre Dame team in the Elite 8. Both seasons had disappointing finishes, but were very good seasons overall (similar to how UCONN in 2008 and 2011 had great seasons but disappointing finishes.)

In 2013 Tennessee was preseason #20 and nobody predicted them to win the SEC. It was predicted to be a major rebuilding year. They went on to win the SEC Championship and make the Elite 8 despite low expectations. Again, a disappointing finish by losing to a team they were expected to beat but overall I'd consider that a successful season considering expectations.


All of these seasons ranked in success compared to Tennessee 1974-2008 are significantly lower, and Tennessee is no longer the pre-eminent team in women's basketball like they were for so long. They've slipped below Notre Dame/Stanford/UConn but I think they are putting together the recruiting efforts to field teams that can compete with the modern day juggernauts. Not this upcoming season, but in 2016 and beyond I think we'll see Tennessee reaching Final Fours and being seriously considered a championship threat.

 

[bballnut90]

bballnut90, I'm going to speak somewhat in generalities because its easy to pick out specific facts and use them to prove a point, but I think the problems here are more of a general nature occurring over a long period of time.

Many players who were successful in the WNBA were not so great while at Tennessee. They blossomed after leaving college. To me this means lack of development or misuse by the coaching staff.

Yes, Tenn had injuries, but so did most other teams. One we're familiar with here, lost two key players and still won a National Championship. I believe Tenn had good enough players to succeed without many of your injured players, but the coaches couldn't react to overcome the injuries.

If there were weak classes, didn't all teams suffer? Why would that hurt TN worse than others? All that is needed is to pick the best available players for your team.

I'm surprised you aren't mentioning coaching in your reasons for underachievement. To me that's the key. The art of recruiting the right players and dealing with the many complexities of 17 & 18 year old kids is what's needed to build a lasting successful program. A good coach must be many things and very few can master all aspects of what is needed.

There is much talk of Holly being a new coach. But she's really not. She was there with Pat every step of the way and should have picked up enough to slide right in after Pat retired. If she wasn't learning what she needed to know, she should have left long ago to acquire the needed skills. It always seemed to me that Holly was Pat's gofer. She was never trained to take over the program. It seemed as though Pat ran the entire show and when she left, the team was rudderless. In short, I feel the biggest need for Tenn to be successful is better coaching. I say this because whenever I see Holly, I have to just shake my head.

Coaching was definitely factor last season, I think Tennessee underachieved offensively which is a reflection of coaching (her letting Simmons do whatever she wanted to instead of focusing on getting more touches in the post.) I thought Pat did a good coaching job in 2010 and 2011, 2012 was a rough season one Pat's illness went public, and I thought Holly did a great job in 2013. This last year diminished my confidence in Warlick, I thought Tennessee should have been much better than they were, but it was only her 2nd year leading Tennessee. She may not be a new coach, but she is a new head coach. In theory she should have the tools to follow the same path that Pat led Tennessee on for 39 years but she isn't Pat Summitt and doesn't have Pat Summitt on the bench to help out. Additionally, most of her players came to Tennessee to play for Pat Summitt, not Holly Warlick. Having to replace Summitt and get players--who came to UT to play for a different coach--buy into your system is no small task. Her first season as a head coach, I thought by and large she did a great job (and after Tennessee lost to UT-Chat early in the season, some on here questioned if Tennessee would even win 20 games.) In her second season, I'd say it was underwhelming considering what most of us were expecting. If she keeps stringing together underwhelming seasons then it might be time to bring someone new in, but I'd give her more time before making the final judgment on her. If you look at Stanford/Notre Dame, Stanford was essentially a non-factor as a title threat from 1998-2007. Notre Dame was a non factor from 2002-2010. Those are considered 2 of the best 3 programs in women's basketball right now so I'd say it's too early to write off Warlick yet. And in regards to all teams suffering injuries, Tennessee lost its starting point guard to a season ending injury after she was averaging 12.5 points and 5.5 assists. A significantly bigger blow than losing your 6th woman and KML who sat 10 games early in the season.

 

[Buzzyboy]

______________________________________

CERTIFICATE OF COMMENDATION​

to

BBALLNUT90​

for outstanding service as a visiting poster
_________________________________________
​

WHEREAS, bballnut90 ("bballnut") has long been a Tennessee fan posting on the Boneyard; and

WHEREAS, bballnut has managed to address issues substantively rather than respond in kind to the more emotional topics and opinions raised by some Boneyarders; and

WHEREAS, bballnut has been an excellent suggester of topics for discussion; and

WHEREAS, none of the foregoing is easy given the automatic suspicion of some here that any courteous behavior by Tennessee fans is only to mask their inner loathsomeness.

NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of bballnut's outstanding contributions, we extend this Commendation this 9th day of August, 2014.

THE BONEYARD POWERS THAT BE

JS
By: __________________________​

Very Classy!!!! I agree with everything that your commendation says! It isn't easy to come to another board and initiate substantive posts that are well thought out,engaging and well received, particularly after having had many posters from those "other boards" often come here and create some hostility by their slanted comments. Bballnut's done that in spades and is easily worthy of this commendation. I COMMEND you for having the foresight to acknowledge his or her contributions which have helped make this an even more interesting board. Bravo to you both!

 

[Buzzyboy]

Us Tennessee fans have only heard how impressive Te'a has been this summer. Her stock has continued to rise even with a commitment and it being her last AAU season. She was considered the standout player at almost every tournament she was in. Many of us believe Te'a, Asia, and KLS are the top 3. Physically, Te'a is probably the most ready for the college game and could have the biggest impact from the get go, or soon after. I have watched her play since her freshman year and I can honestly say she is one of the best point guards I've seen on the high school level. She would have also been the starting point guard for the U17 World Championship team this summer if it weren't for illness.

The talent gap is not huge... the system that is in place right now is what separates the two programs at the moment. We Tennessee fans are all hoping for improvement with our system and have good reason to be optimistic considering Holly is going into her 3rd year and has been clear about making big changes in their approach to the game. Our 2015 class is a perfect fit for us as well. It may not be the highest ranked class, but it does give us 2 outstanding perimeter shooters and a great all around/top 10 talent player in Nared. Tucker will play a big part as well, maybe bigger than anyone is anticipating but of course she is coming in with injuries and she has been away from game play for a long time.

Brown, Fuehring, McCowan, and DeGrate are all still targets that are considering Tennessee and 3 of them have Tennessee in their final lists.

I do respect your comments regarding how sometimes a recruiting class can actually be a wonderful one despite it not being considered stellar "on paper" because it may address shortcomings that the team has had in the past and bond those holes. We've had classes here at UConn that weren't considered superb but were exactly what Geno and Chris felt our needs were and contributed to championship type teams. Our one person class of Kelly Faris is often lauded by fellow posters for bringing in a special player that was capable of making everyone better because of her devotion and her energy and "her will". Many here consider her their "favorite" player despite the fact that she was somewhat of an unknown by a lot of Yarders and wasn't ranked as highly as many others. Your point is well taken though we shall see exactly how Tennessee's 2015 class actually fits in and whether they have the effect you're hoping for.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Coaching was definitely factor last season, I think Tennessee underachieved offensively which is a reflection of coaching (her letting Simmons do whatever she wanted to instead of focusing on getting more touches in the post.) I thought Pat did a good coaching job in 2010 and 2011, 2012 was a rough season one Pat's illness went public, and I thought Holly did a great job in 2013. This last year diminished my confidence in Warlick, I thought Tennessee should have been much better than they were, but it was only her 2nd year leading Tennessee. She may not be a new coach, but she is a new head coach. In theory she should have the tools to follow the same path that Pat led Tennessee on for 39 years but she isn't Pat Summitt and doesn't have Pat Summitt on the bench to help out. Additionally, most of her players came to Tennessee to play for Pat Summitt, not Holly Warlick. Having to replace Summitt and get players--who came to UT to play for a different coach--buy into your system is no small task. Her first season as a head coach, I thought by and large she did a great job (and after Tennessee lost to UT-Chat early in the season, some on here questioned if Tennessee would even win 20 games.) In her second season, I'd say it was underwhelming considering what most of us were expecting. If she keeps stringing together underwhelming seasons then it might be time to bring someone new in, but I'd give her more time before making the final judgment on her. If you look at Stanford/Notre Dame, Stanford was essentially a non-factor as a title threat from 1998-2007. Notre Dame was a non factor from 2002-2010. Those are considered 2 of the best 3 programs in women's basketball right now so I'd say it's too early to write off Warlick yet. And in regards to all teams suffering injuries, Tennessee lost its starting point guard to a season ending injury after she was averaging 12.5 points and 5.5 assists. A significantly bigger blow than losing your 6th woman and KML who sat 10 games early in the season.

Does she have a different system than Pat Summit did? I don't follow Tennessee as closely as others do but I'm not wholly sure that there is any difference in their philosophies or their systems. Maybe she'll start evolving and we'll see some differences coming forth but I'm not absolutely sure that there is any substantive differences in their approaches or what they want their teams to be.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Yea we havent been ranked pre season ranked #1 in idk how many years...so idk where you're getting that notion from...just bc Tenn fans say we have Talent doesn't mean we think we have the BEST team...My goodness..we give UCONN their due when its necessary...[/QUOTE

It seems that there has always been a few (or more)Tennessee posters coming over here and saying directly or indirectly that this is their year or that they'll be in the hunt, meaning at least Final Four teams. Of course, that hasn't happened for awhile and I know there's nothing wrong with being enthusiastic and to have high expectations but I'm inclined to think you don't share those opinions with a rival board when you haven't really risen to those expectations in recent years. It's almost like you're asking for a beat down, particularly when some Vol fans over the years have made incendiary comments both on their board and over here. JMHO!

 

[Buzzyboy]

Well good luck with that - I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a Margo "concession" video anytime soon though.

It's obvious that that will never happen. Just like most UConn fans will never stop feeling the way they do about Tennessee women's basketball. It started becoming a little like the Hatfield and McCoys, which a lot of Tennesseans can relate to. What we've had is remarkable success even though we were somewhat late bloomers. Pat already had her "dynasty" when Geno and Chris started up at UConn and we know what the two of them have created. A lot of Tennessee fans know, as well, and resent it because the King (or is it Queen) of the Mountain is no longer in Knoxville but is inplanted in Storrs Connecticut along with the equally impressive men's program.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Tennessee has underachieved in the NCAA tournament...not arguing that. Despite that, in 2010, 2011 and 2013 Tennessee still had overachieving seasons despite their NCAA tournament performance. In 2010, Tennessee was coming off its worst season in school history where they lost 11 games and lost in the 1st Round of the NCAA tournament. They put together a 32-3 season and lost to Brittney Griner and Baylor in the Sweet 16. It's worth noting that Tennessee had a 5 point lead with under 8 minutes to go in that game, so the game itself was much more competitive than the final margin indicates. In 2011 they put together a 34-3 season and lost to a very good Notre Dame team in the Elite 8. Both seasons had disappointing finishes, but were very good seasons overall (similar to how UCONN in 2008 and 2011 had great seasons but disappointing finishes.)

In 2013 Tennessee was preseason #20 and nobody predicted them to win the SEC. It was predicted to be a major rebuilding year. They went on to win the SEC Championship and make the Elite 8 despite low expectations. Again, a disappointing finish by losing to a team they were expected to beat but overall I'd consider that a successful season considering expectations.


All of these seasons ranked in success compared to Tennessee 1974-2008 are significantly lower, and Tennessee is no longer the pre-eminent team in women's basketball like they were for so long. They've slipped below Notre Dame/Stanford/UConn but I think they are putting together the recruiting efforts to field teams that can compete with the modern day juggernauts. Not this upcoming season, but in 2016 and beyond I think we'll see Tennessee reaching Final Fours and being seriously considered a championship threat.

A lot of people have mentioned on numerous occasions that there is very little to choose from between most teams between the rankings of around #8 thru #20 in most seasons. Your comments about one of your teams making the Elite Eight after initiatiating the season as a 20th ranked team isn't really saying much. First of all, there are writers who will vote for (or not vote for) teams based on things other than reality. If there was an impression that Tennessee had lost a little of their shine, it wouldn't be unusual for some writers to lower their expectations of the Vols. For them to have gone to the Elite Eight isn't suggesting that they had a stellar year or that they overachieved. It probably has more to do with the fact that there is so little to choose from those teams ranked in the mid to upper stages of the top 20. Tennessee has continually gotten superb talent, due to the legacy of the program. There might be a year or two where they lose out on some talent or have a smaller class (as has UConn) but how often do you not see Tennessee on the list of Top 20 recruits final list, assuming that Tennessee is looking for players of that respective position. I mean, if the Vols have seven front court players on their roster, it isn't as likely that Top 20 front court players will have the Vol's on their final list, mostly because they've probably had very little interest from the Tennessee recruiting staff. Tennessee has underachieved, based on what most people would expect, considering the level of talent that they've had. I know about injuries and you're probably aware of how many tragic injuries the Huskies have had in the last fifteen years (Bird, Shea, Svetlana, Doty, Montgomery, Tuck and many others that don't come to mind at the moment) but as a norm, UConn has still gone on to Final Fours and even in some instances, won championships, despite the losses. With the level of recruits that Tennessee has had, you've still got enough ability to have a pretty high level of success. I don't think they've handled their losses like they should have or maybe those losses just made it easier to justify their inability to perform as a team. JMHO.

 

[Tonyc]

UConn has reached a point and we've seen it over the years that they can loose a top recruit or player to injury and still continue to win. Many teams need a top recruit to hope to reach the NCAAs or FF. Many teams need their star player(s) to assure them of a win or an NCAA bid or FF or even a top seed. UConn doesnt. UConn lost EDD and continued to win. UConn had key injuries to key players and continued to make the FF and win NCs. Last season with Tuck and KML out they beat top teams DukePenn St MD Ohio St on the road without missing a beat. How is it that UConn can continue to roll over top teams without key players? They can do it because of their training and practices which create skills and execution but most of all confidence in what they do. They have trust and believe in Genos system. They are disciplined and trained how to play the game so that it looks easy and fans think gee that looks easy. It looks easy because of the repetition and attention to details to how to execute and how to run plays. For example how to run off a pic or how to box out, or when to take the ball to the basket and when to pull it out. They learn how to play the game correctly thus less fouls, less stupid and silly mistakes and these are the little things that separate them from opponents.

Each era in any sport has its all time greats. Jodi had hers, and Pat had hers, Arnie had his as did Jack and as did/does Tiger. However Geno has taken WCBB to a whole new level leaving everybody else behind. He can win without key players. He can win a alot of different ways. He has gotten his philosophy in WCBB down to a science. It continually amazes me how kids he is recruiting decide to go someplace other then UConn? To me to have the best develop you and make you better...well there is no other substitute for that. Thats JMO. To have the chance to do something special in your life, become somebody special both on and off the court is the ultimate. How can you do to another school knowing you cant win a NC? For me it seems selfish. To me its more about me and less about the team and that will only catch up to you at the next level where its about the team and not you. The team is bigger then you and you are not bigger then the team which is why so many great players fail when playing against UConn.

So this season UConn has lost out on a few very good players and has gotten some really good players. Their attitudes are UConn attitudes and that what matters most. They dont have "stinkin thinkin" they have an attitude of team first thats why they are Huskies. Geno doesnt go after every great player. He is selective, he knows what he wants and he looks for kids with those qualities and attitudes, because he has built a program where discipline and attitude come first. There are alot of good players out there and Geno wont get them all, but all he needs is a couple each season with the right attitude and he will provide the direction, training and endless repetition of skills and drills to make them champions. It aint easy being a Husky...but its worth it.

Repetition is the Mother of Skill but only when your taught the correct way to practice. Practicing the wrong thing over and over again is insanity. Learn the right way and practicing it over and over again will make you better. Being able to surround yourself with players with similar abilities and attitudes will only make you better. They will rub off on you and you will rub off on them. Having team mates at your level or better will only make you better. Having team mates at a lower level will drag you down because they will depend on you and not the team when things get tuff bringing you down because you know they are depending on you thus you not depending on them.

UConn based on the verbals and recruits imo will be the favorite for the next 6 seasons. Not because they have the best players but because of their commitment to perfection. Genos system works and being able to plug players in to fill in for injured players works because everybody knows how to execute within the system. He also has a nucleus that continues to run on its own and thats why it works fluidly. Its taken Geno years to perfect this and for any other coach to duplicate it will take just as long and thats why UConn will be the favorite for the next 6 seasons.

 

[Kibitzer]

I think Tony likes our chances.

He also seems to think Geno can coach.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

ASIA DURR. Just thought her name should be mentioned at least once per page of this thread.

 

[bballnut90]

"A lot of people have mentioned on numerous occasions that there is very little to choose from between most teams between the rankings of around #8 thru #20 in most seasons. Your comments about one of your teams making the Elite Eight after initiatiating the season as a 20th ranked team isn't really saying much. First of all, there are writers who will vote for (or not vote for) teams based on things other than reality."

Saying there isn't much to choose from between #8 and #20 is opinion, not fact. That's like saying 2009 UCONN wasn't that good of a team considering that every other top 10 team in 2008 lost substantially more talent than UCONN. The fact is, in the ESPN preseason polls, UT was ranked #20 and no one predicted Tennessee would win the SEC. Tennessee went on to win the SEC outright and earned a #2 seed. In the NCAAs they easily won their first 2 games and soundly crushed Oklahoma in Oklahoma in the Sweet 16. They went on to lose to a very hot Louisville team (which is the same team that beat Baylor and Cal.) People on this board were laughing when Kate Fagan predicted Tennessee would make the Final Four, people questioned if Tennessee would even get to 20 wins. They came close to making the Final Four, won the SEC outright, and finished with a 27-8 record. Even if expectations were considerably lower compared to a traditional season, that is overachieving expectations.

BTW-thanks Buzzy for the kind words on a previous post.

 

[bballnut90]

Does she have a different system than Pat Summit did? I don't follow Tennessee as closely as others do but I'm not wholly sure that there is any difference in their philosophies or their systems. Maybe she'll start evolving and we'll see some differences coming forth but I'm not absolutely sure that there is any substantive differences in their approaches or what they want their teams to be.

When a new coach takes over, even if she has been on the bench for so long, players have to buy into the new coach, and believe that the new coach can lead this team. The players came to Tennessee to play for Pat and were expecting to be coached by Summitt all 4 years, not Holly. I am not sure if they have different approaches, I am sure there are many similarities between the two. However, Holly is not Pat Summitt so with any new coach there will be an adjustment period, especially when taking over a team of players that came to UT to play for a different coach.

 

[sivad40]

When a new coach takes over, even if she has been on the bench for so long, players have to buy into the new coach, and believe that the new coach can lead this team. The players came to Tennessee to play for Pat and were expecting to be coached by Summitt all 4 years, not Holly. I am not sure if they have different approaches, I am sure there are many similarities between the two. However, Holly is not Pat Summitt so with any new coach there will be an adjustment period, especially when taking over a team of players that came to UT to play for a different coach.

I agree with you. I remember when UNC long time assistant coach Bill Guthridge took over for Dean Smith there definetely was an adjustment period. Bill's personality was different from Dean's and he did have some issues throughout the season with some of his starters over the six man starting rotation.

 

[Kibitzer]

When Holly was elevated to become head coach at Tennessee, I posted my opinion that she just got the worst coaching job in America.

Why?

Because it would be tough enough to succeed a legend (e.g., Guthridge/Smith, Bengtson/Lombardi, etc.) under ordinary circumstances, but to do so quite literally in the shadow of the legend herself (i.e., Pat remaining on the scene as coach emeriti) made for an impossible task.

Looking back, I see no reason to regret what I said then. Holly did not have NC talent on hand and the criticisms from the Summitt fan base were incessant, placing her in an untenable position.

Compounding her difficulties were injuries, the seemingly uncontrollable Simmons, and the rise in competition, regionally and nationally.

She is a good coach but has certainly been dealt a difficult hand. It remains possible that she may capture some past LadyVols glory, but the jury she faces is heavily biased and harshly critical.

 

[Bestiarius]

When a new coach takes over, even if she has been on the bench for so long, players have to buy into the new coach, and believe that the new coach can lead this team. The players came to Tennessee to play for Pat and were expecting to be coached by Summitt all 4 years, not Holly. I am not sure if they have different approaches, I am sure there are many similarities between the two. However, Holly is not Pat Summitt so with any new coach there will be an adjustment period, especially when taking over a team of players that came to UT to play for a different coach.

But the players stayed. They could have transferred. I agree there us usually a transition period. The incoming coach has to be special to avoid a regression. One example is Kevin Ollie, who took over from a legendary coach and inherited problems besides. If Holly was the right person, she could have done it, but she wasn't. Not that it's her fault. There aren't many superior coaches to begin with.

The next couple of seasons should bring answers to the opinions on TN coaches.

 

[Kibitzer]

But the players stayed. They could have transferred. I agree there us usually a transition period. The incoming coach has to be special to avoid a regression. One example is Kevin Ollie, who took over from a legendary coach and inherited problems besides. If Holly was the right person, she could have done it, but she wasn't. Not that it's her fault. There aren't many superior coaches to begin with.

The next couple of seasons should bring answers to the opinions on TN coaches.

Are you suggesting that Holly ain't no Ollie?

 

[bballnut90]

But the players stayed. They could have transferred. I agree there us usually a transition period. The incoming coach has to be special to avoid a regression. One example is Kevin Ollie, who took over from a legendary coach and inherited problems besides. If Holly was the right person, she could have done it, but she wasn't. Not that it's her fault. There aren't many superior coaches to begin with.

The next couple of seasons should bring answers to the opinions on TN coaches.

You're absolutely right that the players did stay. The only one they lost out on due to Pat leaving was Kaela Davis. I wouldn't say Tennessee had a regression, as their record actually improved from 2012 to 2013, they won the SEC and again made it to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament. 3 more years without a Final Four and disappointing finishes and then I think it might be time to search for a different coaching staff, but give Holly some time.

 

[Tonyc]

I've talked about UConn having a nucleus and they've been able to maintain that nucleus by recruiting players to fill the positions of players graduating. Most of those key recruits come to UConn when a key player is in her soph or junior year. So for their first year or two they are developed and worked into the system. Depending on how fast they develop they play.

By maintaining a nucleus Geno does not have to go into the rebuilding mode like most teams do. He has a system replaces players with players who can execute within his system and UConn continues to roll. This season KML graduates and Ekmark will be in position to step in and the following season Katie Lou is learning the system. This has been crucial to UConn success. Thats why UConn can execute as a unit. Thats why Geno doesnt want a player who wants to be the star because then the system and execution break down. Everybody on the team, knows how to execute the plays and if they dont they dont play and when they make a dumb mistake theyre yanked out of the game yelled at and this will continue every time any player makes a mistake. This is the process of learning and every body is treated equally.

UConn got lucky this season. They have Kiah to replace Stef and Natalie to replace Kiah next season and both are experienced players. No holes in the line up with our freshman class coming in and next years class coming in and both classes will be playing with Morgan Breanna and Mojeff. Not a bad nucleus to work with. This is why I keep saying UConn is the team to beat over the next 6 years. By maintaining a nucleus they maintain continuity. If Dangerfield and McCoy come and both love UConn, so I think we get'em, then you can tack on another year of UConn being the favorite to win it all.

So when I say nobody can beat UConn you understand where my thinking is. We are always one step ahead of our opponents because of the nucleus we start with. If you think Im wrong look at the turnovers, fouls and rebounds. Look at the consistency year after year.

Now let me ask you this. Why would Geno retire? He could continue to coach delegate more to his asst coaches and slow down a bit while still doing what he loves and having more time to do other things. JMO folks.

 

[msf22b]

After reading through these posts I am not convinced that Durr had Uconn at the top of her list. .

I mean. we recruited 4 (count em) guards for goodness sake
It's even possible that Asia's the most gifted of the five
but it's sure crowded, with lots of talent.
She took a good look at the roster and high-tailed it to another program (whichever).
Makes a lot of sense; no hand-wringing required.

 

[j66kicker]

I've talked about UConn having a nucleus and they've been able to maintain that nucleus by recruiting players to fill the positions of players graduating. Most of those key recruits come to UConn when a key player is in her soph or junior year. So for their first year or two they are developed and worked into the system. Depending on how fast they develop they play.

By maintaining a nucleus Geno does not have to go into the rebuilding mode like most teams do. He has a system replaces players with players who can execute within his system and UConn continues to roll. This season KML graduates and Ekmark will be in position to step in and the following season Katie Lou is learning the system. This has been crucial to UConn success. Thats why UConn can execute as a unit. Thats why Geno doesnt want a player who wants to be the star because then the system and execution break down. Everybody on the team, knows how to execute the plays and if they dont they dont play and when they make a dumb mistake theyre yanked out of the game yelled at and this will continue every time any player makes a mistake. This is the process of learning and every body is treated equally.

UConn got lucky this season. They have Kiah to replace Stef and Natalie to replace Kiah next season and both are experienced players. No holes in the line up with our freshman class coming in and next years class coming in and both classes will be playing with Morgan Breanna and Mojeff. Not a bad nucleus to work with. This is why I keep saying UConn is the team to beat over the next 6 years. By maintaining a nucleus they maintain continuity. If Dangerfield and McCoy come and both love UConn, so I think we get'em, then you can tack on another year of UConn being the favorite to win it all.

So when I say nobody can beat UConn you understand where my thinking is. We are always one step ahead of our opponents because of the nucleus we start with. If you think Im wrong look at the turnovers, fouls and rebounds. Look at the consistency year after year.

Now let me ask you this. Why would Geno retire? He could continue to coach delegate more to his asst coaches and slow down a bit while still doing what he loves and having more time to do other things. JMO folks.

Tony I think your post all adds up to UCONN getting the largest share of the elite recruits on a consistent basis. Not that he wasn't getting his share anyway, but I think Geno's stint as USA Basketball's main women's coach has helped keep the pipeline stuffed. It gives him huge credibility and pays tremendous dividends for UCONN's recruiting, but also suspect it's a ton more work - very unlike semi-retirement.

 

[EricLA]

You're absolutely right that the players did stay. The only one they lost out on due to Pat leaving was Kaela Davis. I wouldn't say Tennessee had a regression, as their record actually improved from 2012 to 2013, they won the SEC and again made it to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament. 3 more years without a Final Four and disappointing finishes and then I think it might be time to search for a different coaching staff, but give Holly some time.

I hate to say it and I'm near about to throw up in my mouth, but I think Holly's done a terrific job. Of course I root for Tennessee to fall off the face of the earth but...

Whether she ends up a super star, or merely a star, she landed Russell. She convinced Diamond to transfer to Tennessee. She convinced legit top 10 Tucker to come "back" to college in spite of her awful circumstances. She landed a legit top 10 player in Cooper. I'm not convinced Nared is as good as Tennessee fans think, (she's 4o per PN and 19 per BS) but she's on board too. Carter is a starter and I'm not sure how good she can be. I think that Reynolds, Moore, Middleton, Dunbar and Jackson will be solid players, but only role players IMHO.

Still, look at what she landed after Pat left. Who besides Dailey could replace Geno and replicate that kind of success? And we all know Dailey prefers to be the Veep, not the President, so to speak. My point is, unless Holly gets no one else in 2015 who's top 20, and then strikes out in 2016 and 2017, I can't see them even considering replacing her...

 

[sivad40]

But the players stayed. They could have transferred. I agree there us usually a transition period. The incoming coach has to be special to avoid a regression. One example is Kevin Ollie, who took over from a legendary coach and inherited problems besides. If Holly was the right person, she could have done it, but she wasn't. Not that it's her fault. There aren't many superior coaches to begin with.

The next couple of seasons should bring answers to the opinions on TN coaches.

Some coaches won a title or two after a legendary coach

 

[bballnut90]

I hate to say it and I'm near about to throw up in my mouth, but I think Holly's done a terrific job. Of course I root for Tennessee to fall off the face of the earth but...

Whether she ends up a super star, or merely a star, she landed Russell. She convinced Diamond to transfer to Tennessee. She convinced legit top 10 Tucker to come "back" to college in spite of her awful circumstances. She landed a legit top 10 player in Cooper. I'm not convinced Nared is as good as Tennessee fans think, (she's 4o per PN and 19 per BS) but she's on board too. Carter is a starter and I'm not sure how good she can be. I think that Reynolds, Moore, Middleton, Dunbar and Jackson will be solid players, but only role players IMHO.

Still, look at what she landed after Pat left. Who besides Dailey could replace Geno and replicate that kind of success? And we all know Dailey prefers to the Veep, not the President, so to speak. My point is, unless Holly gets no one else in 2015 who's top 20, and then strikes out in 2016 and 2017, I can't see them even considering replacing her...

I think she has done a fantastic job of recruiting top players and is setting Tennessee up to have all the tools to be a title contender again. This is why Tennessee fans are so optimistic for their team. The big concern is her in game coaching and her ability to develop a team that will play cohesive and execute at a high level. And that is why Tennessee fans are a bit scared that she may be another Coach P....someone who can land all the big name recruits but can't sniff a Final Four.

And I don't see her job being in jeopardy anytime soon, just like how Coach P's job isn't in jeopardy even though many women's college basketball fans (and Duke fans) feel that she has been a disappointment and Duke would be better with a different coach. If Holly doesn't deliver Final Fours in the next 3 years, she'll still have her job but UT fans wont be satisfied having her lead Tennessee.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Oh my are we still talking about UConn and Tennessee?

Without reading all the posts that have brought this thread this far...... I am in St Petersburg (no not FL but the one founded by Peter the Great) and am about to head out on tour...... I will say that there are 2 reasons IMHO why Tennessee still is talked about...... One is the fine contribution the TN posters add to this site..... their contributions are relevant, and very welcome. They all seem to be fine folks, and I like getting their take on things...... I think as far as visitors go..... they have more representatiuon than any of our competitors...... The second reason TN always comes up is the still-recent history of Pat and her folks trying to bury our entire program with the NCAA, getting no results (a secondary violation for not clearing Maya on an ESPN tour.... which was matched at same time by improper recruiting violation backed by Pat pictured with M Simmons in a gym)..... and then ducking for cover..... no basis to charges after investigation, no apology, not to mention remorse from Orange nation, etc..... Due to this, it is no wonder why CT folks have enmity for TN, are happy the annual game is not being played (although some would just love to play to get the chance to put a butt kicking there)..... and just hope TN is left there to stew in their juices......

Since this thread has shifted, I will throw in my 2 cents..... On 2 items..... First, on the rose colored glasses on each and every single class TN brings in every year..... I think this is quite natural for any program to look and see what the future portends and do some handicapping on their fortunes..... I am sure South Carolina, Notre Dame and UCLA are all very giddy about their chances in the next few years..... as are we..... the difference with Tennessee is with their coaching..... and I have said it before...... after wondering out loud the last couple of years, and trying to find fault with the team's skills/heart, etc..... I firmly and sincerely believe that these are blue chip athletes and have no apologies to make to the rest of the top programs.... but they need to be developed......I will say it again, why coaches left Meaghan in to "do her thing" and not run an efficient offense designed to being the talents out of ALL the players tells me only that either they had little confidence in their other players, or did not have the guts or discipline to bench her until she stopped the run and gun stuff..... and yes yes I know that the stat sheet shows that she was the only one willing to shoot, as the MS fans say, but without offensive developement, proper sets against sertain defenses..... chances of winning are nil.... unless your run and gun guard is shooting lights out which is difficult to do nite after nite..... I take Notre Dame as an example, because I like Muffet as a coach..... Skylar was a blue chipper..... but Kayla and Achonwa were not..... and i have to believe it was in large part to CMM's coaching.... and her staff, which allowed them to develop and flourish......fast forward to next year..... I have more confidence in Turner turning out well at ND then I do seeing Diamond being a world beater in 15..... because at this point I see DD coaching herself..... that could be a little harsh, and is based partly on what I saw of her at UNC, but I mention her to cite the example of someone new coming in who is highly billed, yet still has to run through the maze to prove themself

The other thing I would offer is that it is time for Pat to leave the program. I say this with all due respect that she has brought the LV program, the 161 young women she has tutored, her 8 NCs, and a seat at the head table in the annals in the short history which is major league WCBB...... maybe one or more of our TN friends can chirp in here..... and give their opinion on what benefit Pat is offering the program at this point...... if it is just to keep the connection with the program she built, or to shake a recruits hand, OK, but I would think that until she is not there any longer, the present coaching staff will be less inclined to discount CPS's ideas and incorporate them into their individual thinking...... I honestly do not know how involved she is as HD Emeritus...... but any connection I think hinders the potential successes of the current staff at least to a small extent......