Asia Durr Narrows list; topic morph circa p. 4 to Tennessee's status/outlook

[Bayareahusky]

Oh i saw some talk that I must put my contribution in on..... that of Holly and the job she is doing and the transition period at UT..... By and large, I think some folks are being too soft on her..... by comparing her to Guthridge..... my goodness how low does the bar have to be placed? Guthridge was not the best choice obviously..... Holly is a good person, a loyal UT player alum, asst coach, devoted disciple of the great PS, and now head coach..... but I have yet to see her coach up a storm... either in development terms or as a "game coach"..... if i hear one more post game presser where she says "I dont think we were relaxed" or "for some reason we were nervous" ...... or just the all encompassing "I just don't know what happened but we will learn from this" ..... i will pull my hair out..... all that falls under the responsibility of the head coach...... the world is full of coaching transitions where the new coach coaches players who are not her own..... though it can be argued that she was with the program all along so it is not like she is coming in from somewhere else.....

Holly has been HC for 3 years, I think...... add to that was an entire year where Pat did nothing and Holly ran the team..... I hope this does not sound too harsh.... but it is time to take the training wheels off!!!! Geno had one losing season, and then he started to win.... I am trying to grab examples off the top of my head..... Fran McCaffery has made steady progress each year at Iowa...... Remember Pat did not leave UT at the top . There was room for improvement....... Yes it is tough following a great coach..... but if the heat is too hot, need to leave the kitchen..... Bruiser Flint could not walk in Calipari's shoes at UMass, now he is well placed at Drexel...... a better fit for him......

I guess my point here is that I would not make the "transition takes a few years" argument at all..... If I am a UT fan, I want results now, and I want to have someone at the helm who can be an effectual leader......

 

[LadyVols9]

this thread is fascinating to me. over 14,000 views and 7 pages. a lot of good opinions both way. TN is still relevant it seems.

 

[meyers7]

You're absolutely right that the players did stay. The only one they lost out on due to Pat leaving was Kaela Davis. I wouldn't say Tennessee had a regression, as their record actually improved from 2012 to 2013, they won the SEC and again made it to the Elite 8 in the NCAA tournament. 3 more years without a Final Four and disappointing finishes and then I think it might be time to search for a different coaching staff, but give Holly some time.

I agree. Give her 20 years. If they still haven't gotten to a FF (hopefully), then maybe (maybe) look around for another, or not. I'm fine with her being there. I like what she's been doing with the team so far.

 

[rvwsleep]

this thread is fascinating to me. over 14,000 views and 7 pages. a lot of good opinions both way. TN is still relevant it seems.

Yes, in the same way that Richard Nixon and Watergate is relevant. It's old news but the post mortem is still fascinating.

 

[LadyVols9]

I agree. Give her 20 years. If they still haven't gotten to a FF (hopefully), then maybe (maybe) look around for another, or not. I'm fine with her being there. I like what she's been doing with the team so far.

keep in mind, Geno will leave one day. UCONN will be facing the same issues. it happens to all programs who lose a famous coach. the transition is the most important part and holly warlick has done a fabulous job in keeping TN on a good path. she has won 2 SEC titles, TN got a #1 seed last year, and Holly has recruited exceptionally well. while we still need to break the FF "curse", she should get credit for something, right?

 

[Bayareahusky]

LV9....... Oh so true, and we are of course all thankful that Geno is still around.......your post here is well taken..... keep TN on a good path ..... check..... recruited exceptionally well....check... I just think she should be coaching at a level higher than she is now.... personal opinion......

 

[LadyVols9]

LV9.. Oh so true, and we are of course all thankful that Geno is still around..your post here is well taken..... keep TN on a good path ..... check..... recruited exceptionally well....check... I just think she should be coaching at a level higher than she is now.... personal opinion.

I do think results are now the main issue. She has had a little time to adjust, but TN fans do expect top results. The next 2-3 years will be the real measuring stick for Holly and her coaching career at TN. The talent is there. The ball is in her court. (couldn't pass up the pun sorry)

 

[j66kicker]

this thread is fascinating to me. over 14,000 views and 7 pages. a lot of good opinions both way. TN is still relevant it seems.

Agree - ha ha. BY has posters from Rutgers, Stanford, ND, Duke, who will defend their teams and coaches. But it's still TN that gets us this riled up in the "nuthin' at ALL goin' on" part of the off season.

 

[meyers7]

keep in mind, Geno will leave one day. UCONN will be facing the same issues. it happens to all programs who lose a famous coach. the transition is the most important part and holly warlick has done a fabulous job in keeping TN on a good path. she has won 2 SEC titles, TN got a #1 seed last year, and Holly has recruited exceptionally well. while we still need to break the FF "curse", she should get credit for something, right?

I agree, if she keeps doing that, keep her there forever. And absolutely she gets credit for what TN has accomplished.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yes LV9 the talent is there indeed..... need to kick sum ass..... just my opinion, I think TN has given her plenty of time already..... it will be interesting to see how she stacks up against the up-and-comers USC and other possibles down your way...... would have loved..... for your sake to c u make last April's FF in Nashville..... let this coming year be your year..... if not, well, we all know that the KVille bunch is not a patient group

and maybe Mercedes' feets will be good.... and you will have some good fortune on the injury front.....

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think she has done a fantastic job of recruiting top players and is setting Tennessee up to have all the tools to be a title contender again. This is why Tennessee fans are so optimistic for their team. The big concern is her in game coaching and her ability to develop a team that will play cohesive and execute at a high level. And that is why Tennessee fans are a bit scared that she may be another Coach P....someone who can land all the big name recruits but can't sniff a Final Four.

And I don't see her job being in jeopardy anytime soon, just like how Coach P's job isn't in jeopardy even though many women's college basketball fans (and Duke fans) feel that she has been a disappointment and Duke would be better with a different coach. If Holly doesn't deliver Final Fours in the next 3 years, she'll still have her job but UT fans wont be satisfied having her lead Tennessee.

I think there is so much truth in your remarks. It's really good that she's getting talent but it's what you do with that talent in the long term that makes all the difference. Duke has had an exceptional amount of talent over the years but they continue to fall short of expectations year after year. Can that be the story of the Lady Vols over the next ...... years?

 

[Buzzyboy]

Notre Dame, Connecticut and Stanford have done an exceptional job developing talent and helping players reach their potential. I'll admit Tennessee the last several years has not done as good of a job, but to say Tennessee seldom develops talent is just wrong. Look at Isabelle Harrison and her transformation from a mediocre freshman to one of the nation's top post players. Besides her, off the top of my head I can name Nicky Anosike, Candace Parker, Glory Johnson, Shekinna Stricklen, Sidney Spencer, And Shanna Zolman as players in the last decade who improved immensely throughout their career at Tennessee. Even Ariel Massengale lead improved significantly over her time at UT and still has a year left. The recent track record of player development does not match UCONN's, I'm not arguing that. But Tennessee does develop talent better than the majority of schools in the nation.

 

[msf22b]

Not in the Maya mold or she would be going to UCONN where she could have the opportunity to be the best player she can be. Maya didn't throw away the opportunity to win national titles, Asia has.

Too strong for me

 

[Beemer]

Somewhat OT but since we're talking about Tennessee- question for Lady Vol fans- how is Pat Summitt doing these days? Don't hear/see much about her up here in CT. I hope she's at least holding her own against the dementia.

 

[LadyVols9]

Somewhat OT but since we're talking about Tennessee- question for Lady Vol fans- how is Pat Summitt doing these days? Don't hear/see much about her up here in CT. I hope she's at least holding her own against the dementia.

apparently, she is doing well. she had a knee surgery to deal with over the summer. she still comes to the arena and some practices. the players often post comments about her. it's very strange that she is not the coach, but i think the fans and players are getting used to it...slowly but surely....

 

[LadyVols9]

I think there is so much truth in your remarks. It's really good that she's getting talent but it's what you do with that talent in the long term that makes all the difference. Duke has had an exceptional amount of talent over the years but they continue to fall short of expectations year after year. Can that be the story of the Lady Vols over the next . years?

i sure hope we don't end up being like Duke. yikes. now there's a talent wasteland....but you are right. holly has to meet expectations. period. end of story.

 

[LadyVols9]

Yes LV9 the talent is there indeed..... need to kick sum ass..... just my opinion, I think TN has given her plenty of time already..... it will be interesting to see how she stacks up against the up-and-comers USC and other possibles down your way. would have loved..... for your sake to c u make last April's FF in Nashville..... let this coming year be your year..... if not, well, we all know that the KVille bunch is not a patient group

and maybe Mercedes' feets will be good.... and you will have some good fortune on the injury front.....

i always enjoy your comments to me and others. thanks for the back and forth.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Likewise LV9 ..... always interested to know what the rest of WCBB is thinking...... thx for your comments

 

[BlueDevils]

i sure hope we don't end up being like Duke. yikes. now there's a talent wasteland....but you are right. holly has to meet expectations. period. end of story.

I'm curious. Whats the difference between Duke and Tenneesee the past five years? We actually play Uconn?

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yes, BlueDevils, credit where credit is due, you do indeed play us..... but I am afraid Duke will be wearing the tag of non-winner until it wins something big..... if not the NCAAs something significant on the way to that..... perhaps upset a higher seed on the way to the FF...... Tennessee has a lot to hang its collective hat on over the years, though to your point, i think, in the last 5 years not much of a roar has been eminating from KVille.

 

[meyers7]

I'm curious. Whats the difference between Duke and Tenneesee the past five years? We actually play Uconn?

Tennessee has a lot to hang its collective hat on over the years, though to your point, i think, in the last 5 years not much of a roar has been eminating from KVille.

This being the "doggy" days of August, heard this from a little "bird(dog)".

Duke 150-26, 4 regular season ACC championships, 3 ACC tourney championships, 4 elite eight, 1 round of 32.

Tennessee, 149-29, 3 regular season SEC championships, 4 SEC tourney championships, 3 elite eight and 2 Sweet Sixteen.

Incredibly even between the two programs the last five years.

 

[JS]

Incredibly even between the two programs the last five years.

Which brings us to the point implied, I think, by Blue Devils: The biggest difference in perceptions of the two teams' success over that period is likely the humiliations Duke endured at the hands of UConn -- especially at home and while highly ranked -- which humiliations Tennessee was spared.

 

[Bayareahusky]

meyers7 - Yes, I know the intent of your post here is to manifest the head-to-head equality of Duke and TN over this time period..... but I feel compelled to put forth an opinion, and I believe one which may be in the minority of popular thought...... I believe the only good measuring stick in WCBB is national championships..... I say this not because we have some in our hip pocket, but because of strength of competition..... in the men's game, I would applaud conference championships and conf. tournament championships..... particularly in the competitive conferences..... but in WCBB, the competitive quotient is still quite soft...... it just isn't impressive to me if a team is ranked #10 in the country..... or makes the Elite 8..... I think (understanding this is again a minority opinion perhaps) that making the fianl 4 in WCBB shouldn't be that difficult if in fact you have a good team worthy of contending for the WCBB title..... I mean, look at some of the pretenders to get to the FF the last several years..... I mean look at Maryland last year..... I think they were an embarrassment to our game ...... the way they played against ND in the semis..... they didnt want to compete in that game..... they let them score at will.... while the announcers heaped praise on Wright and the other Achonwa fill-in for ND, MD just gave the game to them..... I wish WCBB had been better represented in this regard,..... before I get too scattered here replete with isolated thoughts.... at least Gary Blair won when he got there.... at least Kim backed up her claim of a talented team with a 40-0 record, if only for one year in the BG era......

If I am Duke or I am TN, I would not use conference championships as a measuring stick..... it means virtually nothing..... I will allow that making the FF means something, though not much more than a conf chmpnshp in my way of thinking..... maybe that is an acceptable measuring stick, but look where it has gotten ND and Stanford...... the only thing that matters is how you do when you hit the big stage...... you play for the opportunity, AND THEN you muct be ready to seize the moment when that opportunity presents itself. The NCAA title, it simply is all that matters.

 

[Beemer]

apparently, she is doing well. she had a knee surgery to deal with over the summer. she still comes to the arena and some practices. the players often post comments about her. it's very strange that she is not the coach, but i think the fans and players are getting used to it...slowly but surely....

That is good to hear

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yes, Nan, good point.... and I give Coach P great credit for wanting to play the "big dogs"...... how do you know how good you are unless you constantly are testing yourself and taking an ongoing temperature of your program...... I sincerely hope for the sake of Coach P and her program that she has some success, though of course certainly not at our expense...... I think she is well intentioned and has a good vision..... walking it through by implementation has been difficult, yes, but she deserves something good to happen in Durham for her good efforts.