Asia Durr Narrows list; topic morph circa p. 4 to Tennessee's status/outlook

[connboy77]

Which brings us to the point implied, I think, by Blue Devils: The biggest difference in perceptions of the two teams' success over that period is likely the humiliations Duke endured at the hands of UConn -- especially at home and while highly ranked -- which humiliations Tennessee was spared.

I give Duke all the credit in the world for having the guts to play UCONN.

 

[meyers7]

Which brings us to the point implied, I think, by Blue Devils: The biggest difference in perceptions of the two teams' success over that period is likely the humiliations Duke endured at the hands of UConn -- especially at home and while highly ranked -- which humiliations Tennessee was spared.

Well I believe being a LadyLikes fan is pretty humiliating in and of itself.

 

[meyers7]

meyers7 - Yes, I know the intent of your post here is to manifest the head-to-head equality of Duke and TN over this time period..... but I feel compelled to put forth an opinion, and I believe one which may be in the minority of popular thought. I believe the only good measuring stick in WCBB is national championships..... I say this not because we have some in our hip pocket, but because of strength of competition..... in the men's game, I would applaud conference championships and conf. tournament championships..... particularly in the competitive conferences..... but in WCBB, the competitive quotient is still quite soft. it just isn't impressive to me if a team is ranked #10 in the country..... or makes the Elite 8..... I think (understanding this is again a minority opinion perhaps) that making the fianl 4 in WCBB shouldn't be that difficult if in fact you have a good team worthy of contending for the WCBB title..... I mean, look at some of the pretenders to get to the FF the last several years..... I mean look at Maryland last year..... I think they were an embarrassment to our game . the way they played against ND in the semis..... they didnt want to compete in that game..... they let them score at will.... while the announcers heaped praise on Wright and the other Achonwa fill-in for ND, MD just gave the game to them..... I wish WCBB had been better represented in this regard,..... before I get too scattered here replete with isolated thoughts.... at least Gary Blair won when he got there.... at least Kim backed up her claim of a talented team with a 40-0 record, if only for one year in the BG era.

If I am Duke or I am TN, I would not use conference championships as a measuring stick..... it means virtually nothing..... I will allow that making the FF means something, though not much more than a conf chmpnshp in my way of thinking..... maybe that is an acceptable measuring stick, but look where it has gotten ND and Stanford. the only thing that matters is how you do when you hit the big stage. you play for the opportunity, AND THEN you muct be ready to seize the moment when that opportunity presents itself. The NCAA title, it simply is all that matters.

ummm ok, then they both have "0". So they are still both pretty even over the past 5 years.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Oh meyers7, you make it SO DAMN HARD to disagree with you!!!

Facts are stubborn things ain't they?

 

[j66kicker]

I'm curious. Whats the difference between Duke and Tenneesee the past five years? We actually play Uconn?

I looked to see what their head-to-head record was over last 5 years and couldn't find where Duke and TN even played each other since 2008-9 (regular season, Duke won 62-54 in Knoxville)

 

[JoePgh]

BayAreaHusky, would you not agree that it is nearly self-evident that Notre Dame and Stanford (and probably Baylor), for the past 5-6 years, have been truly excellent WCBB programs, occupying a place on the mountain well above Duke, Tennessee, Maryland, A&M, and several other colleges in the "pretty good" territory?

Saying that NC's are the only thing the matter, especially at this moment in history, is like saying that every golfer in Tiger Woods's prime was mediocre because they couldn't compete with him.

 

[bballnut90]

meyers7 - Yes, I know the intent of your post here is to manifest the head-to-head equality of Duke and TN over this time period..... but I feel compelled to put forth an opinion, and I believe one which may be in the minority of popular thought. I believe the only good measuring stick in WCBB is national championships..... I say this not because we have some in our hip pocket, but because of strength of competition..... in the men's game, I would applaud conference championships and conf. tournament championships..... particularly in the competitive conferences..... but in WCBB, the competitive quotient is still quite soft. it just isn't impressive to me if a team is ranked #10 in the country..... or makes the Elite 8..... I think (understanding this is again a minority opinion perhaps) that making the fianl 4 in WCBB shouldn't be that difficult if in fact you have a good team worthy of contending for the WCBB title..... I mean, look at some of the pretenders to get to the FF the last several years..... I mean look at Maryland last year..... I think they were an embarrassment to our game . the way they played against ND in the semis..... they didnt want to compete in that game..... they let them score at will.... while the announcers heaped praise on Wright and the other Achonwa fill-in for ND, MD just gave the game to them..... I wish WCBB had been better represented in this regard,..... before I get too scattered here replete with isolated thoughts.... at least Gary Blair won when he got there.... at least Kim backed up her claim of a talented team with a 40-0 record, if only for one year in the BG era.

If I am Duke or I am TN, I would not use conference championships as a measuring stick..... it means virtually nothing..... I will allow that making the FF means something, though not much more than a conf chmpnshp in my way of thinking..... maybe that is an acceptable measuring stick, but look where it has gotten ND and Stanford. the only thing that matters is how you do when you hit the big stage. you play for the opportunity, AND THEN you muct be ready to seize the moment when that opportunity presents itself. The NCAA title, it simply is all that matters.

If that's the case then only 1 team each year wins something that matters. The ultimate goal is to win a title, but you can't diminish conference championships/Final Four appearances even if the team doesn't win a championship. For UCONN this may be the case, but they are also the preeminent team in women's basketball right now and are so loaded with talent that anything less than a championship is a disappointment. Hell, next year I think anything less than another undefeated season will be a disappointment in some peoples eyes. And alos, Maryland got throttled by Notre Dame last year but Notre Dame was damn good. Notre Dame was 36-0 against a strong schedule...even though Maryland was blitzed by Notre Dame, I wouldn't label Maryland a pretender. Especially after the way they handled Tennessee and beat Louisville on the road to get to the Final Four. They also gave Notre Dame their closest game of the season in the first match up. Maryland deserved to make the Final Four this year.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Hmmm , JoePgh, upon reading your 1st paragraph..... you may have me backing off a bit because I can find no fault in what you say here..... ND was always a good program which jettisoned forth with addition of Diggins..... Stanford was always getting the key recruits to plug in their needs..... and YES YES YES, last 5 or 6 yrs.... head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.....

2nd paragraph I am less inclined to go along with..... I don't want to compare WCBB with pro golf..... but to go along with it...... Tiger had some great years..... and some great performances.... i remember that sick major win at Pebble Beach i think where he won by 15 strokes or something....... but the rest of the field at least I feel is kind of with him in terms of technique and talent...... there is so much I see in the WCBB game that excludes some teams from the top shelf clubs..... the fundamentals..... effecting screening, running ordered offensive sets, capitalizing on strengths..... playing smart defense, playing tough defense..... and then of course the execution of all of this..... or lack thereof......

Maybe if I was to pull back from statement that all that matters are NCs, I would say flatly that conf chmpnshps and conf tourney chmpnshps are a bad way to measure the strength of your program...... Sorry to pick on the Lady Vols, but Holly has been an effective asst for 30 plus years, had the helm for one year while Pat was not on the bench for games and has had the job officially for 3 more years now...... and am I to believe that her progress has been superb on the basis of her conf chmpnshps? Not at all...... I do not see her with a vision at all..... some of her tactics I have been in agreement on (formally rewarding effort, etc),..... but she is just in over her head it seems......

In general WCBB is not as competitive as MCBB, even at the highest levels..... you would not see a blowout like the LVille UC chmpnshp game in 2013 in the mens game...... there is much more parity and it goes deep into the field...... Belmont can knock off Duke and we are not that blown away...... when St Johns beats us (reg season) or Ball State hits up TN in the 09 tournament, those are seismic events because they almost never happen in the womens game.....

Our game is still growing...... it is still becoming more competitive..... and I expect it will take a while before I personally am impressed with a team proudly making the top 20..... It simply isn't that competitive now..... that is the genesis of my nat'l chmpnshp talk..... to reach for a hard measure, and not to be born on 3rd base and think you hit a triple to use a metaphor slightly incorrectly...... if your program is good, then good. If your program is supposed to be good, then make it good. But don't say..... well we had this conference freshman of the year, and we won our conference, etc..... too many programs are setting their bar too low......

And a keen eye should be cast on the programs that have great natural resources for lack of a better term..... Duke and Stanford have great academics..... Tennessee has great tradition, etc... these programs should be held to a higher standard...... and if they are not performing, I do not want to see it said that, "well we did do this and we did do that"..... that is when I bring back my natl chmpnshp talk..... that is the measure......

In college football, I think of Mack Brown at Texas.......the former coach at the most profitable college program in the country...... doesnt have to recruit he can select.....#1 recruiting ground in the nation is Texas..... (kinda of like it is getting for WCBB!)...... all the resources and panache in the world...... he was a good fund raiser.... a good stand up guy it looked like.... but he wasnt getting the job done.... he should have been out several years ago!!!!! (parenthetically, I saw that Charlie Strong, who just took over removed several players from the program for different incidents, including violence versus women..... makes you wonder how much Mack looked the other way)

My former boss had a slogan on his desk ...said "No explanations, no excuses!!"...... I wish more people would seize their fire within and harness this thought

 

[Bayareahusky]

Bballnut90...... yeah i guess i am saying that sure there is only 1 trophy to be won..... but the steps to get there are frequently cited by partisan fans as big building blocks to success when they really are not...... kind of like Notre Dame fans storming the football field after defeating Purdue.

And I certainly do diminish many conf chmpnshps (though not all) because I truly think they are not that hard to achieve for some...... and yes i know i am in the minority on this.....

and on Maryland....perhaps I am going to have to look at the tape again.... the way i remember they simply gave ND offensive position all game long, and did not play an inspired game at all..... I really do think they were an embarrassment.... though to your point, yes they did deserve to get there.....

 

[BlueDevils]

I just have a problem with Vols fans calling Duke a talent wasteland when over the past few recruiting classes I don't see VOLS players progressing. I will admit there's no excuse for the Chelsea Gray class not to make ONE final four, but before Notre Dame entered Duke absolutely OWNED the ACC for whatever its worth. Liston, Gray, Alexis Jones, and Richa (pre injury) improved while at Duke over the years. For four straight years we saw Simmons jack up shots. Watch your mouth if you aren't in a position to really talk.

 

[BlueDevils]

Back to Asia Durr. I think its between Duke, Baylor, or Notre Dame. Baylor will have Lex(baby come back) and Durr two guards who are playmakers. Notre Dame will have Allen and Durr as their future backcourt. There Durr will be able to play along side a pass first point guard. Finally, if she chooses Duke Coach P will have 4 years with the number 1 and number 2 point guard even though Durr is more of a combo guard. Thing about Durr going to Duke is that we already have Sierra Calhoun and Rebecca Greenwell both of whom are freshman guards, so one person would be playing the 6th man role majority of their duration at Duke. Which I think would be either Calhoun or Lambert.

 

[Bayareahusky]

BD - why would Durr consider Baylor..... did her parents not say academics were vital in this decision...... do you know something i do not?

Regarding Duke..... I think ND's arrival on the scene will be the tide which raises all boats, do you agree?

 

[triaddukefan]

Been on a 6 week self-imposed exile from all things WCBB ... so I have to catch up on a few threads

Now that's odd: it seems to me that the UConn fans on their fan board: the boneyard - are stating obvious facts. every year Tennessee fans come on the board stating "this will be the year!" and this goes back a number of years. the difference is on the UConn board we have some discussion about it, including posts expressing doubt and valid reasons supoorting that doubt, yet we never reach the heights rudeness found on other fanboards of that team where posters and even the moderators make nasty comnents to us.



Tennessee can come on here and have their say and engage in debate with the UConn fans who are basically saying, "you have a lot to prove"..

Dookie fans for example appear to have a better handle - or are at least tongue and cheek about it - and with good humor about their team's potential, yet we don't see from them and need to constantly reaffirm how well their team is going to do.

It's almost as if the Tennessee fans need some sort of affirmation from the UConn fans about how well their team is going to do. that probably isn't going to happen although I have seen posts supporting Tennessee when players are injured and I have seen some posts wishing them well.

Well guess I start to brag on the 2014-15 season..... Duke will be the TOP WCBB team that plays its home games within a 5 mile radius of Interstate 85. Sorry UNC-Charlotte, Georgia Tech, NC Central, Elon, Furman..... Duke is HANDS DOWN the top dog along that interstate

i sure hope we don't end up being like Duke. yikes. now there's a talent wasteland....but you are right. holly has to meet expectations. period. end of story.

A wasteland ??? For teenagers ?




It may be a wasteland... but the BBQ is top notch

 

[rvwsleep]

Been on a 6 week self-imposed exile from all things WCBB ... so I have to catch up on a few threads





Well guess I start to brag on the 2014-15 season..... Duke will be the TOP WCBB team that plays its home games within a 5 mile radius of Interstate 85. Sorry UNC-Charlotte, Georgia Tech, NC Central, Elon, Furman..... Duke is HANDS DOWN the top dog along that interstate




A wasteland ??? For teenagers ?




It may be a wasteland... but the BBQ is top notch

baba o'riley. One of my personal favorites.
Oh. Welcome back

 

[caramel]

She,most likely,will become an outstanding college player,barring injury.
However,I,for one,could not be much more thrilled than who Connecticut has arriving or, giving their verbal,to the team.In my opinion,no matter who anyone else gets,from here on in,Connecticut will be very hard to beat the next few years.Teams will need their AA++ games to do so.

 

[Tonyc]

She,most likely,will become an outstanding college player,barring injury.
However,I,for one,could not be much more thrilled than who Connecticut has arriving or, giving their verbal,to the team.In my opinion,no matter who anyone else gets,from here on in,Connecticut will be very hard to beat the next few years.Teams will need their AA++ games to do so.

I have to agree. UConn understands "Why" they do what they do. They make a total commitment to the TEAM and Geno and his coaching staff because they know what the "Why" is. If they dont they get yanked out of a game or practice. This makes you tuff, and determined. When you look at the development of Genos players over the years you have to wonder how many more kids could be better if they were to play for Geno. When you think about it and look at his former players and what they were when the arrived at UConn and where they are when they graduate and what theyve become on the court it makes me wonder why every kid wouldnt come to UConn. I do understand playtime is important and at UConn you have to earn playtime. However by being forced to do what you may not want to do and at the level you have to do it may turn off some kids, its that that makes them even better. This is why UConn is not for everybody. However when you look at Lawlor and Polito you understand what it means to be part of something special. For them its not about playtime. Its about everything else.

Yes I do understand that many great players want the spotlight. They want to be the go to player, the leader, the front page headlines and they will get that at other schools. At UConn its about the team getting headlines. Its about game situations and who can score. For example when Stef has a freshman guarding her who is inches shorter she can score almost at will with Breanna feeding her and visa versa. However with someone bigger like the girl in the Regionals at 6'7 she didnt. This is why UConn wins by so many points, they dont depend on one player they depend on team execution and opponets opponents depend on their star scorer to win games and UConn can shut that player down forcing opponents into mistakes.

The next 4 seasons could be UConns greatest, because they will show the WCBB world they can win even without some of the other top players they were recruiting. They will also show WCBB how much better the players coming in are compared to their previous season.

 

[msf22b]

The next 4 seasons could be UConns greatest, because they will show the WCBB world they can win even without some of the other top players they were recruiting. They will also show WCBB how much better the players coming in are compared to their previous season.

Tony.true enough,but there is a lot of talent out there and UConn has just recruited more than enough more the next several years.
I don't begrudge Asia D's decision to go elsewhere, it's pretty crowded at guard.
We can't get absolutely all the best players.
The team has (much) more than enough to dominate.

 

[EricLA]

I actually tend to disagree with Tony on this account. I do totally agree that the UCONN coaching staff is the best in the country. However, look at all the non-UCONN stars in the WNBA. Were they simply not developed in college? Angel is one of the best in the world (probably top 10 or 15). She was developed by Walz in college (yeah he had her for only 2 years or so after Collen left L'ville). Did she suddenly become great in the pros after she graduated?

Odyssey Sims and Chiney Ogwumike were pretty much all everything in college. They were both developed by Mulkey and Tara respectively. Both picked up in the pros right where they left off in college. Kayla McBride is another example. Even Diggins, for all her struggles last year, I don't believe that can be blamed on Muffet's "development". Schimmel is another example coming out of L'ville.

Now, do I agree that Geno and co. are likely to push all their players a wee bit more than other coaches, to get them to play and develop outside their comfort zones a bit more than other coaches, etc etc? Sure. But to say that kids aren't developed at other schools is an urban legend.

Now when it comes to running offense, thinking on the court, and developing the team concept, I do agree UCONN is the best. But again, you can't overlook schools like ND or Stanford, who both run a terrific motion and/or Princeton offense and certainly teach their players tho think on the court. People can say "well, look at Stanford - they had Chiney and she took all the shots". Well when KML was injured, didn't Breanna take most of the shots? Didn't we hear at times Geno tell the team "just get the ball to Breanna"?

UCONN is a great team and a great program. It's hands down the best in the nation and the team everyone else wants to emulate. We are fortunate that we continue to land players in the top 5 in the nation. Without those players ("just" kids in the top 10 or top 15), I don't believe UCONN would continue to win NC's. Take Stewie and KML out of the picture and replace them with Krystle Forthan and Betnijah Laney - a forward and a wing, both in the top 10. Do you think UCONN would still be winning all those NC's?

 

[oneresult]

Ericsandiego:

You talk about talented players to begin with ; would they be much better under Gino???
My view, Yes much better
Most where great when they got there, not much coaching needed.
Like I say , did they improve by coaching or just a lot of talent?????