A Nova proposal for UConn to the Big East | Page 4 | The Boneyard

A Nova proposal for UConn to the Big East

MIT is actually competitive in sports. Caltech is hopeless.
 
Zissou said:
UConn to the Big East?

Here is an outsider's perspective as I am a Nova fan.

This is stating the obvious, but it seems UConn's best landing spot would be P5 in the ACC or the B1G, with the Big12 being a distant last P5 resort but a better spot and payday than the AAC. The risk with the Big12 is the uncertainty that it may be downgraded to the G6 if Texas and OU jump ship at some unknown time, maybe in a few years (or maybe never).

I state the obvious because any talk of UConn to the Big East is predicated on acceptance that the P5 invite has not been offered and the offer is not just around the corner. If you believe the P5 invite is about to drop on the doorstep then the Big East makes no sense.

If you accept that the P5 isn't knocking, then the discussion is between the AAC and any other possible non-P5 alignment. I think the Big East is a better fit for UConn as a basketball-first conference with a smaller geographic footprint that would benefit all of UConn's non-rev sports. The Big East would benefit, and value, UConn's NY market position, championship history, and rivalries.

UConn keeping it's football in the AAC while becoming a Big East member may be the best scenario for UConn short of a P5 invitation. Many dismiss the AAC allowing that scenario, but a closer look might show that it is also in the AAC's best interests. Selfishly I look for path forward for Nova's football program with any conference changes. When UConn and Nova were invited to FBS together, UConn stepped forward and Nova declined. In 2010 Nova was invited up again but this time dithered with the invitation for 6 months, and it ultimately expired with WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers objecting as they planned their own conference exits. UConn was left behind in the realignment game. Villanova football was also left behind, but with Nova our failures were more self inflicted.

Here is a proposal for UConn to the Big East, with football in the AAC:

UConn to Big East, an AAC proposal
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Is your school serious about an upgrade to FBS? I'm not so sure they have the money.
 
huskyrob1 said:
Is your school serious about an upgrade to FBS? I'm not so sure they have the money.
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Does Nova have the money? Yes.

Nova is in the midst of a funding campaign that has so far brought in over $620M. Nova's endowment is greater than UConn's. Overall Nova is probably in better shape financially to fund a team than UConn, and we don't use public funding to do it.

Nova spends on football at the top end of FCS.

The top FCS football spenders:
W&M $9.9M
JMU $8.2
Nova $6.6
Fordham $6.5
Delaware $6.5

For Nova, this is before any allocation of West End Zone project (just completed new facility) expenses to football.

The bottom 4 spenders in the AAC are between $11 and $12M

MAC teams spend between $5.5 to $8.3M

UConn football spending was $14.4M from this same data set.


Is Nova serious? Not as serious as it needs to be.

Nova does not have great leadership when it comes to athletics. Nova struggles with its vision. It is slow to react, slow to adapt, and slow to make decisions. It is clumsy and plodding. Nova's slow acceptance of the invite to step up in football from the old Big East was a contributing factor to the timing of the oBE collapse. It is why we are where we are today, which is high spending (likely $7-$10M currently) without hardly any return, and worse - low interest in the FCS product. A key positive is that the football program is very good at the FCS level and we would only be a little more depth and size away from being AAC competitive.

Nova did finally put together a credible plan for home games, but it is sitting on the shelf. Nova would play most of its home games in nearby Talon Energy Stadium, home of the Philadelphia Union soccer. Nova could play maybe 1 or 2 at the Linc, home of the Eagles and Temple.

Nova would need to spend about $3M to $6M more per year for FBS. In return we would hope to get some revenue from TV and increased attendance.

Right now Nova spends $7 to $10M per year on football and has almost no return, and has no chance at revenue. If Nova spends $10-$15M per year for FBS, over time it could hope for $5M++ in TV money, attendance revenue, and it will actually get benefits that are possible with a FBS program: alumni engagement and national exposure.

Nova is #50 in the US News ranking.

As Nova does not need to build a stadium, the increased costs are modest and manageable in the context of Nova's overall endowment and spending, and costs will be offset by increased revenue.
 
Zissou said:
Does Nova have the money? Yes.

Nova is in the midst of a funding campaign that has so far brought in over $620M. Nova's endowment is greater than UConn's. Overall Nova is probably in better shape financially to fund a team than UConn, and we don't use public funding to do it
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Nova being a private school would definitely need a large endowment, that being said UCONN's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school. One of the big knocks on Villanova moving up to FBS is the student body is tiny, only 7000 undergrads. Say only half show up to a game, that's not gonna fill Gampel much less a football stadium. Is that funding campaign just for Athletics?
All that being said, I would love to see Villanova make the move up.
 
huskyrob1 said:
Nova being a private school would definitely need a large endowment, that being said UConn's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school. One of the big knocks on Villanova moving up to FBS is the student body is tiny, only 7000 undergrads. Say only half show up to a game, that's not gonna fill Gampel much less a football stadium. Is that funding campaign just for Athletics?
All that being said, I would love to see Villanova make the move up.
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Nova = $551M, UConn = $372M, 2016 numbers. The funding campaign is general, not just athletics.

Tulane, Tulsa, and SMU also have small undergrad enrollment, all in the under 10K private club. Attendance has to be alumni and local community. Also, that is another benefit for local rivalries. Nova - Temple would draw every year as a local rivalry with fans from both schools attending. Nova - Delaware draws from both schools. I'd imagine UConn fans would show up at BC for an away game, but not so much at Tulsa. One of the AAC flaws is the lack of local rivalries.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
UConn's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school.
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I'm surprised UConn's is < $400M. That is another differentiator to the Big 10 schools (all over $1B), in addition to AAU.
 
Zissou said:
I'm surprised UConn's is < $400M. That is another differentiator to the Big 10 schools (all over $1B), in addition to AAU.
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The good news for UCONN is the trend, it's endowment, thanks to a number of reasons has almost doubled in just a few years. That trend is not slowing down.
 
huskyrob1 said:
The good news for UConn is the trend, it's endowment, thanks to a number of reasons has almost doubled in just a few years. That trend is not slowing down.
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Ummm, no. it has taken the endowment approx 20 years to double.
 
Zissou said:
......
Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K......
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Hey Zissou....

My one minute google search Failed to find any link to confirm you statement offered as fact that the are plans to expand Talen Stadium, much less expand it in the foreseeable future.

Please provide a citation to confirm the statement you offered as fact regarding plans to expand Talen.
 
Bobol said:
Hey Zissou....

My one minute google search Failed to find any link to confirm you statement offered as fact that the are plans to expand Talen Stadium, much less expand it in the foreseeable future.

Please provide a citation to confirm the statement you offered as fact regarding plans to expand Talen.
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Talen used to be called PPL until recently, so googling PPL would probably yield the results you are looking for...
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2013/04/24/soccer-stadium-expansion-planning-on.html
"The soccer stadium, which opened in 2010, was designed to allow for expansion to accommodate 30,000 people per game"

Talen Energy Stadium - Wikipedia
"The stadium's record attendance was achieved on July 25, 2012, for the 2012 MLS All-Star Game when the MLS All-Stars defeated Chelsea FC 3–2 in front of 19,236 fans. Due to consistently high attendance and ticket sales, in 2011 the Philadelphia Union expressed interest in expanding the capacity of the stadium. The planned expansion would occur in three phases, initially to 20,000, then to 27,000, and finally to approximately 30,000"

Expanded PPL Park Could Host Villanova Football If School Joins Big East - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal | SportsBusiness Daily Global
MLS Philadelphia Union CEO & Operating Partner Nick Sakiewicz yesterday said that "increasing the capacity of PPL Park always has been a possibility, no matter what Villanova does" in regard to potentially joining the Big East Conference in football.

MO-drones5-ppl-park-matt-satell-940x540.jpg




 
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Zissou said:
Talen used to be called PPL until recently, so googling PPL would probably yield the results you are looking for...
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2013/04/24/soccer-stadium-expansion-planning-on.html
"The soccer stadium, which opened in 2010, was designed to allow for expansion to accommodate 30,000 people per game"

Talen Energy Stadium - Wikipedia
"The stadium's record attendance was achieved on July 25, 2012, for the 2012 MLS All-Star Game when the MLS All-Stars defeated Chelsea FC 3–2 in front of 19,236 fans. Due to consistently high attendance and ticket sales, in 2011 the Philadelphia Union expressed interest in expanding the capacity of the stadium. The planned expansion would occur in three phases, initially to 20,000, then to 27,000, and finally to approximately 30,000"

Expanded PPL Park Could Host Villanova Football If School Joins Big East - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal | SportsBusiness Daily Global
MLS Philadelphia Union CEO & Operating Partner Nick Sakiewicz yesterday said that "increasing the capacity of PPL Park always has been a possibility, no matter what Villanova does" in regard to potentially joining the Big East Conference in football.

MO-drones5-ppl-park-matt-satell-940x540.jpg
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... but there are no actual plans to do so?

It's kind like Rentschler being designed and having the footings in place for expansion to 55-60k by adding another tier. It's there but not currently happening.
 
To fill in some of the blanks on Nova stadium options, and some history...

1) Villanova Stadium, on campus. The stadium currently seats less than 15,000. Technically Nova could have 2 games at the Linc and meet the requirement of averaging over 15,000 per year, but this is not a real solution. The stadium would need a ton of renovations aside from capacity just to have standard bathrooms and concessions, box seats, etc. The bigger issue is town/gown relations and Nova being pushed around on game day issues such as tailgating. The stadium is not a practical venue.

2) PPL, now Talen Energy Stadium. This is the 7 year old home of the MLS Philadelphia Union. It is 20 minutes south of Nova's campus on an easy I-476 access route. The Stadium has great atmosphere, tailgating, amenities, 18,500 seating, and was built for expansion to 30,000.

3) Franklin Field is UPenn's home and was the Philadelphia Eagles home until 1970. It seats 50,000 plus but does not have high level modern amenities in spite of some recent upgrades and investment. Parking and tailgating options are not ideal. Franklin Field is walking distance from 30th Street Station, a quick train hop from the SEPTA stop on Nova's campus.

4) Citizen's Bank Park. Much like Yankee Stadium hosts the Pin Stripe Bowl, the Phillies home could accommodate football.

5) The Linc, home of the Eagles and Temple. The 60,000 seats is too large for Nova, except for an annual game with Temple and maybe 1 other home game a year.

In summary, the best plan is 4 or so home games at PPL. 18,500 is ok for now and expansion to 30,000 is realistic. There really would be little harm in a shortage of seats for a while. TV is the bigger fish. (see bowl games). Nova and Temple could play every year at the Linc, regardless of who is the home team for the year. If Penn State or ND comes to town we could sign on to the Linc, or even Franklin Field as a back-up.

From a historical look, in 2010 the Big East 8 football line-up was UConn, Cuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Cincy, Ville, & USF. Nova had been invited to step up often, including when UConn stepped up.
  • In Sept 2010 Nova was officially prodded again to step up, as there was uncertainty again swirling and the conference was looking for stability. Nova hemmed and hawed, and put off a decision.
  • Without a Nova commitment, the BE followed up with and invite to TCU, and in Nov 2010 TCU accepted.
  • In April 2011, Nova finally was ready to accept the invitation to step up. It scheduled a Board of Trustees meeting to formally vote up and it advised the Big East of its plan to use PPL (Talon) as its primary home field. With TCU already signed on, 3 members balked at Nova's stadium plan, wanting the expansion to 30,000 at PPL more certain than just an option. Pitt, supported by Rutgers, and WVU voiced the objections. Interestingly, Pitt was stopping Nova for stepping up at the same time it had lead the effort to reject the ESPN TV contract, all while back channeling to the ACC for membership. Nova was asked to revise the stadium plan and resubmit to the conference.
  • In May 2011, influentially led by Pitt, the Big East turns down a $1.4B ESPN contract extension.
  • Syracuse was added to the ACC / Pitt discussions, and in Sept 2011 both were announced to the ACC. Big East Football was down to 6 plus TCU (7).
  • In early Oct 2011, TCU switched direction to the B12. (6)
  • Later in Oct 2011 WVU jumped ship to the B12, and the Big East was down to (5).
  • In Dec 2011, the Big East added Boise State and San Diego State, and UCF, SMU, and Houston (10).
  • In Jan 2012, Navy was added. (11)
  • In Feb 2012 Memphis was added. (12)
  • In Mar 2012 Temple was added. (13)
  • In May 2012 Marinatto is fired.
  • In Nov 2012, Rutgers won the lottery with a B10 invite. (12)
  • Then in Nov 2012, Tulane and East Carolina were added. (14)
  • After those adds, still in Nov 2012, Ville jumped to the ACC. (13)
  • After the Ville, announcement, the "Catholic 7" started their public move to exit. Shortly after, Boise State and San Diego withdrew. (11)
  • Tulsa was added to the AAC after the C-7 split (12).
Could Nova had made a difference in keeping the oBE together? Maybe, or maybe not. We'll never know for sure. But if Nova had accepted the invite when they were most needed by the old Big East, instead of dawdling for 6 months, would the Pitt back-channeling to the ACC have taken place? Would the ESPN TV contract extension played out differently? Football would still have been at the critical (8) even if Pitt and Cuse had left. Would that have kept WVU and TCU in the fold with a competitive TV contract?

Anyway, the Talon Energy Stadium plan is still on the shelf, should the right opportunity evolve.
 
huskymedic said:
... but there are no actual plans to do so?

It's kind like Rentschler being designed and having the footings in place for expansion to 55-60k by adding another tier. It's there but not currently happening.
Expand ...
Correct, there is not an active decision to make the expansion. MLS is doing well and the Union is doing well. in 2011 the discussion was hot with Nova's expected move to the Big East. In 2013 the Union considered the expansion again without Nova in play. It is a stadium built with planned expansion to 30k. Without Nova the Union will probably expand incrementally at some point in the near future, but not to 30K all at once. With Nova their dynamic changes.
 
auggie22 said:
These things are really easy to look up.
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UConn endowment looks like $347M in 2007 and $372M in 2016. Not much change. Again, not a great fact coupled with no AAU when looking at the B1G.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
This report is from two years ago, it's closer to $400 million now, maybe even more than $400 million. 2015 is not today. Lol
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UConn foundation: Fundraising up, but endowment still lags

>>Newton said $21 million from this year’s donations was earmarked for the endowment, which the foundation reported is now at $375 million. That is down from the $383 million reported a year ago, but up from $288 million five years ago.

The foundation says the endowment ranks 75th among the nation’s public universities, last among the nation’s top 20 public universities, and is 64 percent of the size of the median endowment for the nation’s top 119 public universities.<<
 
Zissou said:
I'm surprised UConn's is < $400M. That is another differentiator to the Big 10 schools (all over $1B), in addition to AAU.
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Yep, it's an issue. UConn hasn't needed it. The State of Connecticut has been very generous with multiple major capital projects campaigns since 1995.
 
Zissou said:
Correct, there is not an active decision to make the expansion.
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Please let me direct everyone's attention to,"Zissou's" post on page 5 of this thread where she posted unequivocally that there were plans to expand Talen stadium to a seating capacity of 30,000, yet when called to confirm the statement she had offered for fact Zissou produced outdated 2011 and 2013 news articles and when further pressed begrudgingly admitted that there are no current plans to do what she offered for fact. Bottom line is that Zissou attempted to manufacture facts.

Zissou is a spammer.

I have family members who are pretty well connected with Villanova University and I assure you that the current Villanova Administration at Villanova has absolutely no plans to move its FCS team.

Yeah, it is worth discussing whether it is in the long term interests of UConn and the Big East Conference to accommodate one another but do yourselves a favor and ignore Zissou.
 
huskymedic said:
UConn foundation: Fundraising up, but endowment still lags

>>Newton said $21 million from this year’s donations was earmarked for the endowment, which the foundation reported is now at $375 million. That is down from the $383 million reported a year ago, but up from $288 million five years ago.

The foundation says the endowment ranks 75th among the nation’s public universities, last among the nation’s top 20 public universities, and is 64 percent of the size of the median endowment for the nation’s top 119 public universities.<<
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Medic, even that report is almost a year old. You need to realize that gains in the endowment are not only dependent on donations, gifts, etc. By and large the major driver of a schools endowment is how it's invested. To demonstrate that look at how UCONN's endowment crashed by about $50 million in 2008-2009, every endowment suffered big-time back then as did Wall Street. My point being that since even last August 2016 (the date in the report you cite) Wall Street has enjoyed gains of between 10 to 20%, easily putting an investment of $375 million well over $400 million.
 
huskyrob1 said:
This report is from two years ago, it's closer to $400 million now, maybe even more than $400 million. 2015 is not today. Lol
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Yes, LOL indeed. You obviously did not read it. I linked because the document shows the endowment trend back to 2007. The last quarter end balance that I have seen published was @375. So, you are simultaneously wishcasting and being unpleasant about it. As I said in my original post, 20 years.
 
huskyrob1 said:
Medic, even that report is almost a year old. You need to realize that gains in the endowment are not only dependent on donations, gifts, etc. By and large the major driver of a schools endowment is how it's invested. To demonstrate that look at how UConn's endowment crashed by about $50 million in 2008-2009, every endowment suffered big-time back then as did Wall Street. My point being that since even last August 2016 (the date in the report you cite) Wall Street has enjoyed gains of between 10 to 20%, easily putting an investment of $375 million well over $400 million.
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I think this might be your problem. You have made tenuous assumptions that the endowment funds are tracking the S&p, and that the university is not liquidating endowment funds to cover costs. Both are wrong.
 
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Bobol said:
Zissou attempted to manufacture facts.

Zissou is a spammer.

I have family members who are pretty well connected with Villanova University
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Bobol, that is kind of a dick thing to say. I think I have clarified the stadium plan very accurately.
  • Talen Energy Stadium was built with a future incremental expansion plan in place.
  • There is no active decision to make that expansion, but it is a desire of the MLS Union to expand at some point.
  • Playing at Talen (PPL) was Nova's plan to the Big East in 2011. It meets FBS requirements as configured. Adding Nova as a tenant supports their desired expansion plan, which has no set timetable. Nova and Talen could agree on a timetable for expansion if an FBS path forward developed.
  • Nova probably doesn't need more than 30K and working for now with 18,500 would be fine in that we can play a few games in a larger venue if desired. If we schedule Tulsa, Talen (PPL) would be fine. If we scheduled Penn State we'd play in the Linc.
  • You probably have had family members go to UConn as well, but that doesn't help you to know what conference UConn will end up in. It is true that Nova does not know its football direction. That is painfully clear. It is a fact that Talen was the stadium plan in 2011 when Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers put up the road block on the Nova invitation. It is also true that had Nova just accepted 6 months earlier, or when UConn stepped up, it would not have been an issue. The Talen plan is on the shelf, as is Talen's future expansion timing. Nova's path forward in football is uncertain. I don't know it, you don't know it, and your cousin's boyfriend at Nova doesn't know it. Nova's AD doesn't even know it. This thread is looking forward to what is possible, primarily from a view of adding UConn to the Big East. If UConn moves to the Big East, it needs a solution for the football program in FBS. Nova also needs a football direction.
Bobol, your behavior is boorish.
 
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huskyrob1 said:
Medic, even that report is almost a year old. You need to realize that gains in the endowment are not only dependent on donations, gifts, etc. By and large the major driver of a schools endowment is how it's invested. To demonstrate that look at how UConn's endowment crashed by about $50 million in 2008-2009, every endowment suffered big-time back then as did Wall Street. My point being that since even last August 2016 (the date in the report you cite) Wall Street has enjoyed gains of between 10 to 20%, easily putting an investment of $375 million well over $400 million.
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Spin it however you like... yes, the endowment can flucuate on a daily/weekly/monthly basis (common sense in investing). Your OP about the endowment doubling in the last few years remains incorrect.

Sometimes it's just easier to say... "hmmm, maybe I was wrong" instead of tripling/quadrupling down;)
 
huskymedic said:
Spin it however you like... yes, the endowment can flucuate on a daily/weekly/monthly basis (common sense in investing). Your OP about the endowment doubling in the last few years remains incorrect.

Sometimes it's just easier to say... "hmmm, maybe I was wrong" instead of tripling/quadrupling down;)
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Yes, my info was incorrect on that score. I admit it. Lol
 
auggie22 said:
I think this might be your problem. You have made tenuous assumptions that the endowment funds are tracking the S&p, and that the university is not liquidating endowment funds to cover costs. Both are wrong.
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Oh no, please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said endowments track the S&P or that the University should liquidate. Is there a correlation with the S&P yes absolutely, but directly tracking the S&P, no. Endowment funds are diversified into the bond market as well as stocks and hi paying stock dividends, there is usually a small investment in swaps to help during financial down times, and other investments into real estate, and precious metals round things out. A good money manager of a large endowment fund very rarely will liquidate holdings because of market fluctuations. There is a big difference between investing and trading.
 
Zissou said:
Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K, but it is not part of an FBS requirement.
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Zissou

The above sentence was written by you in a post on page 4 of this thread.

There is nothing ambiguous about the statement which you offered as fact.

When confronted about the fact you offered as fact you admitted that what you wrote is not true.

You are a spammer attempting to stir on this UConn website.
 
Bobol said:
The above sentence was written by you in a post on page 4 of this thread.

There is nothing ambiguous about the statement which you offered as fact.

When confronted about the fact you offered as fact you admitted that what you wrote is not true.

You are a spammer attempting to stir on this UConn website.
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Bobol, have you ever felt loved? I think with all of the rejection from P5 conferences, you don't know how to react when a conference says that they would like you to join.

Look at everything I have written. Even if you want to parse one statement, it is factually correct, even if you expand it yourself beyond its intention.

"Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K, but it is not part of an FBS requirement."

This statement is true. The stadium was built with planned expansion. The Union average 17,500 in a 18,500 stadium. MLS is growing. With or without Nova, the Union will expand the stadium. There is plan, but no timeline set. There is other waterfront development also planned to complement the stadium. Some of that is also not yet timed.

Look at the statement I was responding to:

"You do realize that a FBS program is required to have a stadium which seats 30k or more?"

That statement is incorrect. The FBS requirement is to average 15k in home attendance. There is absolutely no FBS requirement "to have a stadium which seats 30k or more". As configured, Talen meets FBS requirements.

There is a plan for Talen to go to 30k, but it has nothing to do with college football, much less a FBS requirement.

"Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K, but it is not part of an FBS requirement." It's the proper resonse and a true statement.

Go back and read the context. You are intentionally trying to twist meaning, or are just too slow to understand.

The planned expansion would occur in three phases, initially to 20,000, then to 27,000, and finally to approximately 30,000
 
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