A Nova proposal for UConn to the Big East

[Ldandy]

I'm not sure you read the proposal in the original link, as these questions are addressed there. I'll answer them here as well.

I read it, I just didn't find much value in any of it.

The AAC already has Navy as a football only member. The Big East TV money would more than offset losing the AAC deal for UConn. UConn may be better off with the Big East option, so for Aresco, is the membership better off with the proposal, or losing UConn altogether? If UConn leaves, who does the AAC pick up to replace UConn, and have that add be greater than UConn's value? I argue that the AAC is better off accommodating UConn. What if others wanted to leave and be football only? UConn is in a unique situation. Where is Cincy going to go? The P5 is the only better option for most.

First Navy is unique because they were invited as a partial member. They weren't a full member who would suddenly decide to look elsewhere for a better fit for some of its teams like Uconn would be. A huge portion of Uconn's Value to The AAC is tied up in their elite M/W Basketball Teams being a part of the conference. The AAC is supposed to just be OK with being a placeholder for Husky Football while they reap no financial benefit from Husky Bball? Unlikely.

As for who could The AAC replace Uconn Football with, how about Umass? Are SMU or Tulsa Fans going to travel to either of these schools? Is Uconn Football going to be that much more of a draw than Umass to the southern or western members? The AAC could potentially target Army Football with Wichita State Basketball. I think that would be an interesting idea to many. The point is that there would be options.

As for the idea that no one else would care what Uconn did, because they themselves have no better options seems nebulous at best. JMO but I call BS on any other member being OK with Uconn getting preferential treatment. If The AAC continues to pay out peanuts, a number of schools might entertain being aligned with more regional conferences. At that point bye bye AAC.

To your second part, if the AAC was to proactively expand, it isn't crazy that two top end FCS programs would be on similar consideration as C-USA or MAC outliers. Adding 2 in the northern footprint reduces the division footprint that is a common complaint in the AAC. Playing more teams in your division footprint and fewer cross division reduces the travel, and reduces the frequency of playing the south division schools which seem to be the complaint of many on the board. Would playing Nova and JMU instead of Tulsa, Tulane, and SMU be better or worse? Again, is the AAC better with this scenario, or losing UConn altogether?

Why would a conference making little revenue want to further dilute that stream by adding two teams that have no chance of bringing anything of value to the table? The AAC would be better off courting Army and Air Force as they at least have a brand that people are familiar with and potentially excited to see on the schedule. Nobody outside of maybe Temple is going to be excited to see Nova or JMU on a schedule. They will immediately become the two games that nobody cares about seeing live. I'm not trying to be harsh, just honest. There is literally no value in either of these teams for The AAC.

Finally, as UConn knows the financials of FCS aren't a no brainer either. FCS has no added revenue potential. Struggling withe a $7M football expense with no hope of revenue and uninteresting opponents is worse than spending $12M, having opportunity for revenue, and playing football that matters. Temple is Nova's natural rival - playing for the Mayor's Cup on equal FBS footing would be good for football in Philly, would be good for both programs, and would be good for the AAC.

JMO but funding 85 Scholarships and the looming expense of full cost of attendance could greatly offset the majority of income that being in FBS might generate. That said how again does Nova and JMU generate more money for current AAC Members? I don't see it. Not from TV or potentially ticket sales. The only concession Nova would make for joining The AAC would be to play one neutral site game against an AAC Opponent. WTF is that supposed to do? Honestly who cares about one meaningless early season basketball game? How is that payment for carrying the weight of a new FBS Football Program?

Whether it be basketball or football, rivalries matter. This point is often lost in CR. Who are BC's rivals now? Who are UConn's rivals now? This proposal is a win for UConn, a win for Nova, a win for the AAC, and a win for the Big East.

I agree that rivalries matter. If they matter enough eventually they will be scheduled. Uconn is playing both Umass and BC on future schedules. If the Mayor's Cup is actually important the schools will schedule it. That game in an of itself is not worth inflicting on the world JMU vs SMU, Nova vs Tulsa or any number of games that would generate zero interest at the box office or on your cable box.

 

[Zissou]

Are SMU or Tulsa Fans going to travel to either of these schools? Is Uconn Football going to be that much more of a draw than Umass to the southern or western members?

I would say UMass is a downgrade from UConn. I think Navy and Temple would be much more aligned with Nova and JMU than UMass. For Tulsa fans it probably doesn't matter cross division, but one of the attractions is a more regional North division.

Why would a conference making little revenue want to further dilute that stream by adding two teams that have no chance of bringing anything of value to the table?

I just disagree. JMU and Nova would bring value and stability, just prior to the next TV negotiation. More than Tulane and Tulsa imho. Rivalries matter and Nova-Temple would be great for the Philly market.

The only concession Nova would make for joining The AAC would be to play one neutral site game against an AAC Opponent. WTF is that supposed to do?

The proposal is UConn would play 6 and Nova 1. Nova is tied to the Philly Big 5 out of conference schedule, so there is only room to commit one game. But that is 7 games total to the AAC, which only softens the blow somewhat of losing UConn hoops. Every AAC team would play UConn every 2 years, some more.

I agree that rivalries matter.

And I'll repeat the question - In today's alignment who are UConn's rivals? Who are your best football rivals? Who are your best hoops rivals? I'm guessing you didn't answer because the questions are difficult!

 

[Ldandy]

Are SMU or Tulsa Fans going to travel to either of these schools? Is Uconn Football going to be that much more of a draw than Umass to the southern or western members?

I would say UMass is a downgrade from UConn. I think Navy and Temple would be much more aligned with Nova and JMU than UMass. For Tulsa fans it probably doesn't matter cross division, but one of the attractions is a more regional North division.

Why would a conference making little revenue want to further dilute that stream by adding two teams that have no chance of bringing anything of value to the table?

I just disagree. JMU and Nova would bring value and stability, just prior to the next TV negotiation. More than Tulane and Tulsa imho. Rivalries matter and Nova-Temple would be great for the Philly market.

The only concession Nova would make for joining The AAC would be to play one neutral site game against an AAC Opponent. WTF is that supposed to do?

The proposal is UConn would play 6 and Nova 1. Nova is tied to the Philly Big 5 out of conference schedule, so there is only room to commit one game. But that is 7 games total to the AAC, which only softens the blow somewhat of losing UConn hoops. Every AAC team would play UConn every 2 years, some more.

I agree that rivalries matter.

And I'll repeat the question - In today's alignment who are UConn's rivals? Who are your best football rivals? Who are your best hoops rivals? I'm guessing you didn't answer because the questions are difficult!

This will be my last post on this subject and then hopefully this thread can die peacefully in its sleep like grandpa. You point out how these moves would help Uconn or Nova/JMU but make no convincing argument about how they would help the other members of The AAC. You can't just say that adding two current FCS Programs "would bring value and stability, just prior to the next TV negotiation" without any real proof of this conclusion. Quite frankly I think the majority of schools would not be in favor of adding either of these schools for a number of reasons including increased travel, perceived weakening of the schedule, and added competition for recruits.

In all honesty what do you think that adding Nova(without Bball) and James Madison would do for The AAC's TV Deal? I suspect not much. The truth is that Uconn is in the best situation it can be in for the time being. They need to rebuild football and get the program back on steady ground. In a few years The B1G and Big 12 Conference deals will come due and maybe they get their shot then. If they are shut out that point, then and only then should they consider a Big East/Independent hybrid. As for Nova, you had your shot. The Big East gave you the opportunity to put on the big boy pants and you passed. Basketball is going great, you should be happy with that. Major FBS Football isn't in the cards.

 

[Zissou]

This will be my last post on this subject and then hopefully this thread can die peacefully in its sleep like grandpa. You point out how these moves would help Uconn or Nova/JMU but make no convincing argument about how they would help the other members of The AAC. You can't just say that adding two current FCS Programs "would bring value and stability, just prior to the next TV negotiation" without any real proof of this conclusion. Quite frankly I think the majority of schools would not be in favor of adding either of these schools for a number of reasons including increased travel, perceived weakening of the schedule, and added competition for recruits.

In all honesty what do you think that adding Nova(without Bball) and James Madison would do for The AAC's TV Deal? I suspect not much. The truth is that Uconn is in the best situation it can be in for the time being. They need to rebuild football and get the program back on steady ground. In a few years The B1G and Big 12 Conference deals will come due and maybe they get their shot then. If they are shut out that point, then and only then should they consider a Big East/Independent hybrid. As for Nova, you had your shot. The Big East gave you the opportunity to put on the big boy pants and you passed. Basketball is going great, you should be happy with that. Major FBS Football isn't in the cards.

In all honesty what do you think that adding Nova(without Bball) and James Madison would do for The AAC's TV Deal?

In all honesty, the premise is a package deal. If UConn and Nova shook hands on doing this together, Nova facilitates UConn to the Big East. The AAC accepts the proposal or it doesn't. Is the AAC better off with the offer or rejecting it? I think they are better off accepting it and not losing UConn altogether, with the basketball loss softened with the scheduling agreement.

Bringing up 2 FCS teams that are regular playoff contenders and have each won a recent national championship isn't the weakest add. It reduces travel, not adding to it. It isn't a home run like bringing in Notre Dame, but that isn't happening.

If there is any value to the argument that UConn's value is outsized because of the NY market, the same applies to Nova in Philly. UConn-St Johns doesn't split the NY market, it enhances it. Rivalries matter. The same holds true for Nova-Temple except that it is both sports.

You are right that we are very happy in hoops. Also, Nova did screw up its past opportunities for FBS. That is on us. But you can only look forward. In my original post I noted that if you believe a P5 invite is around the corner then you are not in the camp that is interested in the Big East scenario. You still think the P5 invite is in the short term. Bless you. For those that are interested in making a Big East move work, I think the financial proposal, the basketball concessions, and the football adds make the change a win for all parties involved. Also, no one is really talking "major" football. We are taking AAC mid major. The best of the G5, but still mid major. At least your hoops would be back in a major conference and you could increase your TV revenue.

 

[Hoophound]

I wouldn't call the AAC mid-major. AAC football has been much stronger than that with nationally relevant games every year. I certainly wouldn't call it major either. I call the AAC a non P5 high major. I didn't think of Conference USA as a mid major prior to realignment either They were a non-power conference but still pretty significant nationally. Honestly, if UConn basketball was dominating, this conference would have risen further already. I would like to be in the Big East for basketball, but I'm not convinced that the future of the Big East is better than the future of the American if the American stays together as constituted.

From the Big East perspective, I think bringing UConn and Cincinnati back in could be a key to keeping the Big East in a power position for basketball long term.

 

[Zissou]

Wichita State to the AAC fits well into the UConn to the Big East scenario.

With he proposed plan of 6 UConn games and 1 Nova game into the AAC OOC schedule, plus Wichita State in conference, the net effect is a higher RPI SOS for the remaining AAC schools.

If UConn keeps football-only in the AAC, they make out better financially with a full Big East payout and an 80% share of an AAC payout. The Big East 100% share will be greater than the 20% of the AAC that UConn gives up.

Come home, UConn.

 

[Bobol]

......If UConn keeps football-only in the AAC......

Even if UConn desired to pursue your cockamamie suggestion that it quit the ACC in all sports but football and join the New Big East, then why in the world do you believe that that the AAC would agree that UConn could keep its football program in that AAC ?

IMO the AAC would tell UConn that its membership must be all sports or nothing.

 

[Zissou]

Even if UConn desired to pursue your cockamamie suggestion that it quit the ACC in all sports but football and join the New Big East, then why in the world do you believe that that the AAC would agree that UConn could keep its football program in that AAC ?

IMO the AAC would tell UConn that its membership must be all sports or nothing.

I think you are on to something. That is one of the two scenarios if UConn made the switch to the Big East. The ACC would allow UConn football to stay, or it wouldn't.

 

[huskypantz]

Even if UConn desired to pursue your cockamamie suggestion that it quit the ACC in all sports but football and join the New Big East, then why in the world do you believe that that the AAC would agree that UConn could keep its football program in that AAC ?

IMO the AAC would tell UConn that its membership must be all sports or nothing.

They let Navy do it, so it would be an interesting conversation if it came to pass.

 

[Zissou]

They let Navy do it, so it would be an interesting conversation if it came to pass.

They not only have the precedent of Navy as football only, they have already placed a pay-out precedent to Navy, whatever that might be. I am guessing 80% for football only.

Come home, UConn. Big East Basketball. Nova, Georgetown, St. Johns, Xavier, Providence... MSG... you belong with us.

It's not all about money, or shouldn't be. But even if it were, the Big East Basketball plus the AAC Football is your best financial option. If the Big10 calls in 10 years, this doesn't stop you.

Who are your rivals in the AAC?

 

[Hoophound]

You really don't need to convince anyone of anything other than whether or not we can keep football in the AAC. There is literally no one here that prefers AAC basketball.

 

[Adios]

Doesn't matter, we're not leaving for the Big East. Please.

 

[TRest]

The Yard has no ability to decide our conference affiliation. Even though we shared a conference for 30 years or so, UConn has little in common with the tiny urban Catholic schools that make up the NBE. I just toured PC with my daughter, holy crap is that place tiny.

 

[Zissou]

You really don't need to convince anyone of anything other than whether or not we can keep football in the AAC. There is literally no one here that prefers AAC basketball.

I'm not so sure:

Even though we shared a conference for 30 years or so, UConn has little in common with the tiny urban Catholic schools that make up the NBE.

TRest, who are your AAC rivals? I am truly curious what AAC teams UConn fans really get excited about when your schedule comes out. And financially, the AAC doesn't pay. So why would you want your basketball in the AAC over the Big East? Or is it just that you are not used to someone wanting UConn,and the proposition is therefore emotionally confusing?

 

[Hoophound]

None. Everything you see now in terms of people preferring the AAC for basketball is self soothing. We do have something in common with those small Catholic schools, we were in the same conference for decades and made a lot of great memories. We also sold a lot of tickets.

Here is the issue I see going forward. If UConn doesn't get a P5 invite and remains in the AAC waiting and waiting, young fans won't value the old Big East rivals. It has been a few years and 15 year old boys are already losing any appreciation for PC or SJU. Those schools bring ticket sales and we have history with them. A few more years of this and UConn fans won't show up for a game against PC, the younger fans will no longer "get it". When that happens, we better be in the ACC or B1G because if we aren't, it's over.

 

[TRest]

I'm not so sure:


TRest, who are your AAC rivals? I am truly curious what AAC teams UConn fans really get excited about when your schedule comes out. And financially, the AAC doesn't pay. So why would you want your basketball in the AAC over the Big East? Or is it just that you are not used to someone wanting UConn,and the proposition is therefore emotionally confusing?

None, but that not in our control. The state spent $90 million for a football stadium, which is just a small part of the price to upgrade football. We can't walk away from it so easily. And Syracuse and Pitt were our biggest rivals in basketball near the end, most of the Catholic schools had already started their path to irrelevance.

 

[Zissou]

None. Everything you see now in terms of people preferring the AAC for basketball is self soothing. We do have something in common with those small Catholic schools, we were in the same conference for decades and made a lot of great memories. We also sold a lot of tickets.

Here is the issue I see going forward. If UConn doesn't get a P5 invite and remains in the AAC waiting and waiting, young fans won't value the old Big East rivals. It has been a few years and 15 year old boys are already losing any appreciation for PC or SJU. Those schools bring ticket sales and we have history with them. A few more years of this and UConn fans won't show up for a game against PC, the younger fans will no longer "get it". When that happens, we better be in the ACC or B1G because if we aren't, it's over.

Big East fans won't like to admit it, but if you join the Big East it is honestly only until if/when a P5 invite comes. The Big East is a better landing spot if the invite never comes, and a better waiting spot if it is for the next 5 or 10 years.

There are no sure bets on the future, regardless of what some of your fans think. It's better to be in a stronger alliance for at least the short term. Then take a P5 opportunity if it comes.

 

[Zissou]

None, but that not in our control. The state spent $90 million for a football stadium, which is just a small part of the price to upgrade football. We can't walk away from it so easily. And Syracuse and Pitt were our biggest rivals in basketball near the end, most of the Catholic schools had already started their path to irrelevance.

As reigning National Champs for one more day, I'm not feeling irrelevant.

You shouldn't walk away from football. You shouldn't punish basketball for it either (and all of your student athletes in other sports).

 

[HuskyinWRNY]

Big East fans won't like to admit it, but if you join the Big East it is honestly only until if/when a P5 invite comes. The Big East is a better landing spot if the invite never comes, and a better waiting spot if it is for the next 5 or 10 years.

There are no sure bets on the future, regardless of what some of your fans think. It's better to be in a stronger alliance for at least the short term. Then take a P5 opportunity if it comes.

And I'm not so sure we'll ever get a P5 invite.

 

[Zissou]

And I'm not so sure we'll ever get a P5 invite.

That is one very plausible scenario. It is also very possible that someday you do. Why wait it out in the AAC? Whether one comes or doesn't, the Big East is a better fit.

Some may argue that you need the AAC for football to stay best positioned for a P5 invite. The AAC doesn't give you a great platform. Low money, poor rivalries, low interest. It is a decent platform, but not a great platform. UConn should be able to competently negotiate a football-only deal like Navy's deal. If the AAC is heavy handed and won't make a deal, then do the independent route and may an alliance of independents, with the alliance doing its own TV deal (Fox, YES, SNY, regional sports net, etc).

If you start winning 9 or 10 games a year, the Big10 isn't going to look down too harshly on Independent vs. AAC.

 

[Zissou]

Syracuse and Pitt were our biggest rivals in basketball near the end, most of the Catholic schools had already started their path to irrelevance.

 

[Zissou]

Syracuse and Pitt were our biggest rivals in basketball near the end, most of the Catholic schools had already started their path to irrelevance.

Just an update for those that have not been following college basketball:

After Pitt and Cuse left you, UConn and Nova have each won a National Championship.

Pitt, the team that has not gone to the Final Four since joining the Big East in the early 80s, lost Jamie Dixon and hired Kevin Stallings as the replacement. Pitt fans are up in arms that they have lost their recruiting base in the NE corridor because they are now in the ACC and not playing in DC, Philly, and NY. They have more money, but that's about it. I don't miss Pitt and don't care about playing them. They might be the next BC.

Seton Hall has become the Pitt of the oBE. They are competitive, sometimes a bit nasty, and pull off some big wins. The only difference is that the Hall has competed for a National Championship in the modern era.

I would like to continue playing Cuse. JB was against the move to the ACC. Cuse was a factor in the ACC moving their tournament to Brooklyn and clearly misses MSG. It was an attempt at some NYC footprint, but was overshadowed by the Big East in MSG. Jimmy just played a Jay Leno and rescinded his retirement deal and the previously announced transition to Hopkins. Hopkins left in response.

I don't think Pitt or Cuse is more relevant since leaving the Big East. Pitt is surely much less.

The Big East placed 7 in the Tourney this year. I'll take X, Butler, and Creighton over Pitt, BC, Rutgers, VT, and WVU. The alliance loss regrets I have are UConn, Ville, and Cuse.

 

[TRest]

The Big East placed 7 in the Tourney this year. I'll take X, Butler, and Creighton over Pitt, BC, Rutgers, VT, and WVU. The alliance loss regrets I have are UConn, Ville, and Cuse.

You are selling us on rejoining our classic old rivals. I was on campus when the BE formed. X, Butler, Creighton aint them. Not to mention I haven't cared about playing Marquette, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Providence since the beginning of time. Basically, come back to the BE so we can play some meaningful games with Nova and maybe Gtown.

 

[don356]

If i read another comment about the New Big East and those 7 teams in this year's tourney i'm gonna puke. They all flamed out the first weekend and several of them would never have gotten in if Creighton and Xavier didn't completely tank in February. Providence, Seton Hall and Mq got quality wins at the expense of teams that were hurt and/or playing poorly. They are not that good.

 

[Zissou]

If i read another comment about the New Big East and those 7 teams in this year's tourney i'm gonna puke. They all flamed out the first weekend

Alternate facts. Google the bracket.