A Nova proposal for UConn to the Big East

[SC Husky]

There are certainly divided opinions on adding any "football schools" to the "basketball first" Big East. Adding UConn only has built more of a consensus for a few reasons. UConn has deeper roots in the Big East as a founding member and a power team that won multiple championships. The NY proximity is good for perception of TV value and also for increasing the demand in MSG for the tournament. Cincy doesn't really have any of that value for the Big East.

With UConn as an 11th program the Big East can still have a double round robin format, where a 12th changes the format.

As a Villanovan with interests in a complementary football deal, including Cincinnati makes sense. For most Big East members it probably doesn't. Basketball decisions purely for the sake of football are not popular.

Personally I would support adding UConn, Cincinnati, and Temple to the Big East, I just think that is a much more difficult road than just adding UConn.

But isn't the football vs non-football issue a non-issue since the Big East doesn't do football? Cincinnati would be a great add as well purely from a basketball perspective. Plus, it's a good school academically.

 

[Zissou]

But isn't the football vs non-football issue a non-issue since the Big East doesn't do football? Cincinnati would be a great add as well purely from a basketball perspective. Plus, it's a good school academically.

There is one block of opinion that the Big East should not have any members that play FBS football. Their view is don't repeat the conflict that ruined the oBE. That includes UConn adding or Nova moving up. Some would say UConn can join only if you drop football to FCS. If we have FBS schools they will always just be temporary members looking to bolt at the first P5 invite.

I think that block is a minority view, but a significant one. You will see a lot of references to "like minded" institutions.

I don't agree with that view. If a few members play FBS football it's not a great risk, especially as they would play football-only in another conference or play independent. If UConn played in the Big East, for example, and bolted in 7 years for a Big10 expansion, I don't care. We would have had a mutual benefit for 7 years. This would not be like tearing apart a BCS power conference to jump ship. It is what it is.

Where NY, Philly, and Boston are Top 10 media markets, Cincy is in the 30s. Where UConn brings a footprint to the NY to Boston area, Cincy would be the second team in a much smaller market. Is their hoops program so good to override all that other stuff? Probably not. Additionally it forces a format change to the double round robin schedule. Temple might be a better choice to double up in Philly, a Top 5 market. But that would not have the same type of support as UConn either, imo.

The Big East is not desperate for expansion. UConn is a unique interest.

 

[CL82]

So is your $2M per year ESPN contract.

True, but the $2M differential between the AAC's contract and the NBE's isn't much of an incentive.

 

[Zissou]

True, but the $2M differential between the AAC's contract and the NBE's isn't much of an incentive.

Well considering that the Big East contract is only for basketball...

If the AAC values football at 80% and basketball at 20%... $4M for Nova equates to a $20M deal for football and basketball.

UConn is getting ten cents on the dollar.

 

[UConnNick]

Sorry, but didn't I see somewhere in that long SB Nation piece that Nova had issues with a no tailgating policy at their home games? If it's true that Nova bans tailgating, then the school administration has no clue how to promote the atmosphere and gameday attendance at the home games. As such, Nova needs to stay right where they are as a IAA program, because they're successful at that level and they're apparently not interested in promoting football. It's a BB school, always has been, always will be. Stay in the Colonial and win some more championships.

 

[Zissou]

Sorry, but didn't I see somewhere in that long SB Nation piece that Nova had issues with a no tailgating policy at their home games? If it's true that Nova bans tailgating, then the school administration has no clue how to promote the atmosphere and gameday attendance at the home games. As such, Nova needs to stay right where they are as a IAA program, because they're successful at that level and they're apparently not interested in promoting football. It's a BB school, always has been, always will be. Stay in the Colonial and win some more championships.

Well that is one option. The tailgating policy is certainly an anchor on the program. Nova is caught between paying costs at the top end of FCS, where there is no revenue potential, and FBS where there would at least be modest revenue. We actually have more of a financial loss at FCS. On top of that we get none of the soft benefits of a FBS program - alumni coming to games etc.

The tailgating fixes itself if we go FBS. Games would be played at Talon Energy Stadium 20 minutes from campus. The tailgating issues between the school and the township don't apply to the offsite stadium. Tailgating there is great.

If we stay in FCS we have an assured financial loss, low fan interest, and no benefits to the Nova community. Or we make a move to G5 where we pay a bit more in annual costs, have some revenue return, and compete in games that matter in a Saturday game day environment that is actually worth the participation effort.

Most Novans don't have dreams of P5. We just want a decent football experience. Our aspirations may be similar to Navy's in that sense.

 

[UConnNick]

Well that is one option. The tailgating policy is certainly an anchor on the program. Nova is caught between paying costs at the top end of FCS, where there is no revenue potential, and FBS where there would at least be modest revenue. We actually have more of a financial loss at FCS. On top of that we get none of the soft benefits of a FBS program - alumni coming to games etc.

The tailgating fixes itself if we go FBS. Games would be played at Talon Energy Stadium 20 minutes from campus. The tailgating issues between the school and the township don't apply to the offsite stadium. Tailgating there is great.

If we stay in FCS we have an assured financial loss, low fan interest, and no benefits to the Nova community. Or we make a move to G5 where we pay a bit more in annual costs, have some revenue return, and compete in games that matter in a Saturday game day environment that is actually worth the participation effort.

Most Novans don't have dreams of P5. We just want a decent football experience. Our aspirations may be similar to Navy's in that sense.

You do realize that a FBS program is required to have a stadium which seats 30k or more? What plans does Nova have for meeting that requirement? You're going to share the Linc with Temple? You keep mentioning Talon Energy Stadium. It seats 18,500 according to its own site. I'm sorry, but it's hard to take any Nova bid to become an FBS program seriously when you have no stadium which qualifies under FBS rules, other than possibly one already being used by Temple.

 

[Zissou]

You do realize that a FBS program is required to have a stadium which seats 30k or more? .

Your statement is just plain incorrect. You are wrong. There is no such requirement. You are playing with alternative facts. Swing and a miss.

Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K, but it is not part of an FBS requirement.

Check out Toledo, Bowling Green, Kent State, ODU, Coastal Carolina, etc...

Nova playing 4 home games at Talon Energy Stadium and 2 at the Linc is a solid plan.

 

[CL82]

Well considering that the Big East contract is only for basketball...

If the AAC values football at 80% and basketball at 20%... $4M for Nova equates to a $20M deal for football and basketball.

UConn is getting ten cents on the dollar.

Lol, well yeah, I guess in imaginary money, but since the NBE doesn't play football (at least none that anyone is willing to pay for) the comparison is between $2M and $4M, a $2M difference.

 

[Zissou]

Lol, well yeah, I guess in imaginary money, but since the NBE doesn't play football (at least none that anyone is willing to pay for) the comparison is between $2M and $4M, a $2M difference.

True, but the $2M differential between the AAC's contract and the NBE's isn't much of an incentive.

If UConn was to join the Big East, the payout incentive would be $4-$5M JUST FOR BASKETBALL. UConn would still be free to monetize it's football.

It's not imaginary money. It is real value.

 

[uconnell]

56

???

 

[CL82]

???

Lol, yeah, I've got nothing....

I'm not sure how that happened.

 

[billybud]

Can not fool me...you are a Georgia Tech fan in disguise...they and MIT wizards are the few to know about 56....a number that sets engineers and math geeks a trembling.

56 is: the sum of the first six triangular numbers (making it a tetrahedral number). the sum of six consecutive primes (3 + 5 + 7 + 11 + 13 + 17). a tetranacci number and a pronic number.

 

[CL82]

Can not fool me...you are a Georgia Tech fan in disguise...they and MIT wizards are the few to know about 56....a number that sets engineers and math geeks a trembling.

56 is: the sum of the first six triangular numbers (making it a tetrahedral number). the sum of six consecutive primes (3 + 5 + 7 + 11 + 13 + 17). a tetranacci number and a pronic number.

Nope. Just a pocket post. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[mavblues]

???

He's a huge Joe DiMaggio fan...

 

[Zissou]

Lol, yeah, I've got nothing....

your best post on the thread

 

[Adios]

MIT is actually competitive in sports. Caltech is hopeless.

 

[huskyrob1]

UConn to the Big East?

Here is an outsider's perspective as I am a Nova fan.

This is stating the obvious, but it seems UConn's best landing spot would be P5 in the ACC or the B1G, with the Big12 being a distant last P5 resort but a better spot and payday than the AAC. The risk with the Big12 is the uncertainty that it may be downgraded to the G6 if Texas and OU jump ship at some unknown time, maybe in a few years (or maybe never).

I state the obvious because any talk of UConn to the Big East is predicated on acceptance that the P5 invite has not been offered and the offer is not just around the corner. If you believe the P5 invite is about to drop on the doorstep then the Big East makes no sense.

If you accept that the P5 isn't knocking, then the discussion is between the AAC and any other possible non-P5 alignment. I think the Big East is a better fit for UConn as a basketball-first conference with a smaller geographic footprint that would benefit all of UConn's non-rev sports. The Big East would benefit, and value, UConn's NY market position, championship history, and rivalries.

UConn keeping it's football in the AAC while becoming a Big East member may be the best scenario for UConn short of a P5 invitation. Many dismiss the AAC allowing that scenario, but a closer look might show that it is also in the AAC's best interests. Selfishly I look for path forward for Nova's football program with any conference changes. When UConn and Nova were invited to FBS together, UConn stepped forward and Nova declined. In 2010 Nova was invited up again but this time dithered with the invitation for 6 months, and it ultimately expired with WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers objecting as they planned their own conference exits. UConn was left behind in the realignment game. Villanova football was also left behind, but with Nova our failures were more self inflicted.

Here is a proposal for UConn to the Big East, with football in the AAC:

UConn to Big East, an AAC proposal

Is your school serious about an upgrade to FBS? I'm not so sure they have the money.

 

[Zissou]

Is your school serious about an upgrade to FBS? I'm not so sure they have the money.

Does Nova have the money? Yes.

Nova is in the midst of a funding campaign that has so far brought in over $620M. Nova's endowment is greater than UConn's. Overall Nova is probably in better shape financially to fund a team than UConn, and we don't use public funding to do it.

Nova spends on football at the top end of FCS.

The top FCS football spenders:
W&M $9.9M
JMU $8.2
Nova $6.6
Fordham $6.5
Delaware $6.5

For Nova, this is before any allocation of West End Zone project (just completed new facility) expenses to football.

The bottom 4 spenders in the AAC are between $11 and $12M

MAC teams spend between $5.5 to $8.3M

UConn football spending was $14.4M from this same data set.


Is Nova serious? Not as serious as it needs to be.

Nova does not have great leadership when it comes to athletics. Nova struggles with its vision. It is slow to react, slow to adapt, and slow to make decisions. It is clumsy and plodding. Nova's slow acceptance of the invite to step up in football from the old Big East was a contributing factor to the timing of the oBE collapse. It is why we are where we are today, which is high spending (likely $7-$10M currently) without hardly any return, and worse - low interest in the FCS product. A key positive is that the football program is very good at the FCS level and we would only be a little more depth and size away from being AAC competitive.

Nova did finally put together a credible plan for home games, but it is sitting on the shelf. Nova would play most of its home games in nearby Talon Energy Stadium, home of the Philadelphia Union soccer. Nova could play maybe 1 or 2 at the Linc, home of the Eagles and Temple.

Nova would need to spend about $3M to $6M more per year for FBS. In return we would hope to get some revenue from TV and increased attendance.

Right now Nova spends $7 to $10M per year on football and has almost no return, and has no chance at revenue. If Nova spends $10-$15M per year for FBS, over time it could hope for $5M++ in TV money, attendance revenue, and it will actually get benefits that are possible with a FBS program: alumni engagement and national exposure.

Nova is #50 in the US News ranking.

As Nova does not need to build a stadium, the increased costs are modest and manageable in the context of Nova's overall endowment and spending, and costs will be offset by increased revenue.

 

[huskyrob1]

Does Nova have the money? Yes.

Nova is in the midst of a funding campaign that has so far brought in over $620M. Nova's endowment is greater than UConn's. Overall Nova is probably in better shape financially to fund a team than UConn, and we don't use public funding to do it

Nova being a private school would definitely need a large endowment, that being said UCONN's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school. One of the big knocks on Villanova moving up to FBS is the student body is tiny, only 7000 undergrads. Say only half show up to a game, that's not gonna fill Gampel much less a football stadium. Is that funding campaign just for Athletics?
All that being said, I would love to see Villanova make the move up.

 

[Zissou]

Nova being a private school would definitely need a large endowment, that being said UConn's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school. One of the big knocks on Villanova moving up to FBS is the student body is tiny, only 7000 undergrads. Say only half show up to a game, that's not gonna fill Gampel much less a football stadium. Is that funding campaign just for Athletics?
All that being said, I would love to see Villanova make the move up.

Nova = $551M, UConn = $372M, 2016 numbers. The funding campaign is general, not just athletics.

Tulane, Tulsa, and SMU also have small undergrad enrollment, all in the under 10K private club. Attendance has to be alumni and local community. Also, that is another benefit for local rivalries. Nova - Temple would draw every year as a local rivalry with fans from both schools attending. Nova - Delaware draws from both schools. I'd imagine UConn fans would show up at BC for an away game, but not so much at Tulsa. One of the AAC flaws is the lack of local rivalries.

 

[Zissou]

UConn's endowment is not far behind Nova's and it's a state school.

I'm surprised UConn's is < $400M. That is another differentiator to the Big 10 schools (all over $1B), in addition to AAU.

 

[huskyrob1]

I'm surprised UConn's is < $400M. That is another differentiator to the Big 10 schools (all over $1B), in addition to AAU.

The good news for UCONN is the trend, it's endowment, thanks to a number of reasons has almost doubled in just a few years. That trend is not slowing down.

 

[auggie22]

The good news for UConn is the trend, it's endowment, thanks to a number of reasons has almost doubled in just a few years. That trend is not slowing down.

Ummm, no. it has taken the endowment approx 20 years to double.

 

[Bobol]

......
Talen Energy has plans to expand to 30K......

Hey Zissou....

My one minute google search Failed to find any link to confirm you statement offered as fact that the are plans to expand Talen Stadium, much less expand it in the foreseeable future.

Please provide a citation to confirm the statement you offered as fact regarding plans to expand Talen.