A couple of post-OK game thoughts

[bbsamjj]

Your points on Nurse are not unwarranted--she is averaging an amazing shooting percentage right now and playing excellent basketball for the #1 team in the nation. But your standard for Ionescu is a little absurd. Yes her team has been beaten twice--by teams currently ranked #3 and #5 in the nation (both games were, btw, on the road, and I don't think anyone would say Oregon has more talent than either team). Unlike Kia Nurse, I bet opposing teams plan their defenses to stop Ionescu. You can't do that at UConn--every position is a threat. If I was an opposing coach playing against UConn, I'd tell my players to never let Nurse get an open 3 (more than 50% of her makes from the year are from 3), but I'd honestly be more concerned about defending KLS, Dangerfield, and Azura.

And FWIW, UConn and Oregon have had one common opponent thus far: Oklahoma. Both had excellent games with very different expectations:

Nurse: 17 pts, 6-10 FG, 2 rebounds, 1 assist
Ionecu: 38 pts, 10-20 FG, 7 rebounds, 6 assists

 

[Gus Mahler]

Just saw the game on replay tonight (thanks!). I was pleased with how well Pheesa was moving. Seemed natural, free, and easy.

 

[hoophuskee]

Your points on Nurse are not unwarranted--she is averaging an amazing shooting percentage right now and playing excellent basketball for the #1 team in the nation. But your standard for Ionescu is a little absurd. Yes her team has been beaten twice--by teams currently ranked #3 and #5 in the nation (both games were, btw, on the road, and I don't think anyone would say Oregon has more talent than either team). Unlike Kia Nurse, I bet opposing teams plan their defenses to stop Ionescu. You can't do that at UConn--every position is a threat. If I was an opposing coach playing against UConn, I'd tell my players to never let Nurse get an open 3 (more than 50% of her makes from the year are from 3), but I'd honestly be more concerned about defending KLS, Dangerfield, and Azura.

And FWIW, UConn and Oregon have had one common opponent thus far: Oklahoma. Both had excellent games with very different expectations:

Nurse: 17 pts, 6-10 FG, 2 rebounds, 1 assist
Ionecu: 38 pts, 10-20 FG, 7 rebounds, 6 assists

Did I say Ionescu stinks? Didn't I say "I'm not saying she isn't terrific." --- ? What does that mean? Doesn't it mean Im saying "she is terrific?" Secondly, it's great that you bring up "entire team's defenses are being used to stop her. . ." Yet when UCONN has had 3 all-americans make it-- there were at least two that weren't the primary option. Isn't that correct? SO last year when UCONN used "their entire defense to stop her" because you couldn't do that to the UCONN player, does this mean Ionescu was more deserving as a 1st team a/a because UCONN was more of a team?

Also-- what Kia Nurse -- so far is doing is historic. Please find me one player one guard - in which she has played the toughest schedule in wcbb - the toughest schedule in wcbb - the toughest schedule in wcbb- the toughest schedule in wcbb -- and she is 2nd on the team in scoring that is undefeated - and she is 2nd on the team in scoring and she is 2nd on the team in scoring --has an efg% of 72%. Please find me one guard in the history of the wcbb sport for the number 1 team in which she is 2nd in team scoring shooting the efficiency she is doing.

The point is you can't. This doesn't mean Ionescu stinks. It just means that winning and historic stats are superior to losing in which a player has a defense focused on her. BTW-- please name me one undefeated team in wcbb history who has played the toughest schedule in wcbb (or 2nd) and they didn't get one 1st team a/a on it.

As far as your point on talent-- it is extremely irrelevant. Nurse's efg% is 72%. It's historic. The "most talented players" I just disagree in the manner you speak. Diamond D "was very talented." Many players are "very talented" and the focus of their defense. Winning counts. If you don't think so-- then please explain why Morgan Tuck got 1st team? Because her stats were not outstanding. And was she the focus of the opposing team's defense? No. SO why is it relevant in the manner you speak when we look at Nurse AT THIS MOMENT have historic numbers. Please me which one player in the history of wcbb - a guard - who has had these efficiency stats while being 2nd in scoring on an undefeated team with the toughest or 2nd toughest schedule?

Winning counts a lot. Coming close -- not so much. Oregon being led by Ionescu hasn't beaten one top 15 team. When she has played the best competition she has been "stopped." To put her above a player on an undefeated team that has played the toughest schedule in which said player is on a historic run is just lunacy. OFC the numbers could change 3 weeks from now. But we are talking AT THIS MOMENT. AT THIS MOMENT OREGON HAS DONE LITTLE - and their leader has played pretty darn bad in those big games. For the record, in the future I definitely do expect that to change. But you can't ignore the bad performances vs the top 15 because it doesn't fit your argument.

 

[donalddoowop]

@donalddoowop this is the second time you have stated that: "Kia told the staff she did not want the responsibility of being a leader ". I recall reading differently (quite the opposite) and do not recall an interview where this was discussed. My understanding of the leadership role at UCONN is that it is not something that any upper classman would not accept responsibility for because leadership is not optional in this program.
Most of what I recall is contained in this article in which CD says of Kia:
Kia Nurse, Gabby Williams have emerged as leaders as UConn women chase history
"Kia has been pretty much steady. Although her role has grown, I think she has a calmness about her because of all of her experience, she is a leader for us. I think they have embraced what we have asked them to do. "

What time of the year was that? I'm talking about the first two weeks of the season when Nurse was struggling. Nurse and Geno discussed it. Why do you always think that if you have not read or heard something that that something did not happen? Wake up Coco. You do miss some things.

 

[CocoHusky]

Why do you always think that if you have not read or heard something that that something did not happen?

Becuase you are the ONLY source and you have a history of these SOLO unsubstaintaited claims. Can't imagine that any player on a UCONN WBB would refuse to be a leader and Geno would be ok with that. You said it was posted here on the BY, I don't recall it. Surely someone else might? Anyone else recall this?
FYI Kia had hernia surgery July 2016 , Summer Olympics, & ankle injury at the start of conference play which was the main reasons for her needing rest and the likely explanation for a slow start to her Junior season -just in case you missed that.

 

[my2cents]

I don't know if thee has been as much this year as other years in terms of complaining. But I don't know what you mean by "the usual dismissal" -- and is it even relevant? ]

Secondly in terms of "well thought out" -- 1-- who says/judges that most are well thought out? 2-- Who cares if they are well thought out if/yet they are wrong?

Third- - I've found several that complain (as the team has won 4 titles in 5 years and lost about 2 games during a 4 year stretch) are very thin-skinned once you disagree with them. They want everyone "to feel" their concern. Well, what if you don't "feel it" and just think the concern is hogwash? Is that considered then "the usual dismissal?" It's okay to call an opposing view "hogwash" in some manner, isn't it?

The "usual dismissal" is if someone ( I made no comment on the game) says (ie)KLS had a bad shooting night...the reply would be..we won the game by 24 points and we have won 11 National championships, and 157-2, so basically "Shut up"
As for the "well thought out" was , staying with the above example, a shooting % might be given.
There was a better example of ny point as a reply to HuskyNAN

 

[hoophuskee]

The "usual dismissal" is if someone ( I made no comment on the game) says (ie)KLS had a bad shooting night...the reply would be..we won the game by 24 points and we have won 11 National championships, and 157-2, so basically "Shut up"
As for the "well thought out" was , staying with the above example, a shooting % might be given.
There was a better example of ny point as a reply to HuskyNAN

I looked at the thread to see your reply to nan. I didn't see it. BTW, who told you to shut up?

 

[Charliebball]

Ogunbowle? The same player that shot 8-25 from the floor vs UCONN? It seems like you are picking the high scorers. Morgan Tuck got in just averaging 13.7 ppg and 5.7 rebounds. Why do you need gaudy stats -- and not just solid ones for an unbeaten team that has played the best (or 2nd) schedule in wcbb in which the efficiency stats are't just good or aren't just "great" they are unbelievably great for a guard playing against THE BEST.

IMO Nurse vs Ogunbowale right now - and it isn't close. It's Nurse. Og is averaging 17 shots a game. OFC she is going to average 20 points with a good pg and good post play as she jacks up 17 shots per. Her EFG% is 50%. Nurse is 72%. That's an enormous difference. It's not like Nurse isn't scoring.

As for Ionescu. They've been beaten two times already. One game she was absolutely dreadful. And the other game -- bad. That's a 1st team a/a - she is leading her team to what? I'm not saying she isn't terrific. But again -- you've seen teams that go undefeated -- especially considering UCONN has had the best schedule or 2nd best in all of wcbb- you've seen them get a/a's in vs the gaudy stat makers. So why is "today" different?

ANd your point of "they can play to a higher standard"-- how is that relevant at the moment when comparing player vs another as to who gets in if season ends right now?

I was making the point that I fully expect UConn's AA's from last year to be in the running by the end of the season because as of today, I don't know that Gabby, Napheesa or KLS would be front runners..................is EFG% the only stat that is significant to the AA committee? How they make their decisions is somewhat of a mystery to me................as for Arike, I'll let the ND boys fight for her place as an AA............

 

[CocoHusky]

Winning counts a lot. Coming close -- not so much. Oregon being led by Ionescu hasn't beaten one top 15 team. When she has played the best competition she has been "stopped." To put her above a player on an undefeated team that has played the toughest schedule in which said player is on a historic run is just lunacy. OFC the numbers could change 3 weeks from now. But we are talking AT THIS MOMENT. AT THIS MOMENT OREGON HAS DONE LITTLE - and their leader has played pretty darn bad in those big games.

The bolded point is technically not correct since both Duke and MD were top 15 teams that Sabrina took down last year in the tournament.
Sabrina is a terrific player having a terrific season so far. So far Sabrina is not having a better season than Kia Nurse. No NCAA guard is having a better season than Kia Nurse so far. Consider that Kia is shooting the ball at a historical clip, the schedule that UCONN has played, and her impact on the defensive side of the ball.

.

 

[Charliebball]

The bolded point is technically not correct since both Duke and MD were top 15 teams that Sabrina took down last year in the tournament.
Sabrina is a terrific player having a terrific season so far. So far Sabrina is not having a better season than Kia Nurse. No NCAA guard is having a better season than Kia Nurse so far. Consider that Kia is shooting the ball at a historical clip, the schedule that UCONN has played, and her impact on the defensive side of the ball.

.

I have the greatest respect for Kia's skills on and off the court and in my mind she has been UConn's MVP so far this season.............nothing would please me more then to see her graduate as an AA............my point all along was to say that our little group can sometimes have blinders on when it comes to other team's great players.................

 

[CocoHusky]

I have the greatest respect for Kia's skills on and off the court and in my mind she has been UConn's MVP so far this season...nothing would please me more then to see her graduate as an AA..my point all along was to say that our little group can sometimes have blinders on when it comes to other team's great players.......

That might have been what you were trying to say but what you actually said first was:

At their best they are all capable of being All Americans but frankly at this point in the season if you simply went by quality of play, I'm not sure that any of UConn's players would be first team AA's, not even sure about second team.....I'm confident that will change as the season progresses....we tend to be so UConn focused that we forget there are many other teams with players that are playing at an equal or higher level right now...

I didn't even have to take off my UCONN colored blinders to see that first statement is just not correct.

 

[bags27]

I can't handle being a leader??
what does that even mean? what is a "leader" in basketball?

• the player who takes the critical shot? well, then, the defense knows who that's going to be, huh?
• the player who yells the most? all players yell in the huddle
• the point guard? not Kia

That's all nuts. Whatever conversation they had about it was descriptive rather than official, just a way of helping her get her emotional balance, but certainly not something that suddenly changed her status in any way. Just more talk coming out of a locker room that gets far more media attention than any other in WCBB

What happened mid-way through her sophomore year is that she hit a streak of horrendous shooting and quite literally was in tears about it. Geno called her out publicly for the tears, and it really transformed her. Her outside shooting steadied (though not her sometimes out-of-control drives) and emotionally she seemed to reach a level that she's never departed from. On the contrary, she has built an incredibly solid emotional base--every bit as reliable as her now amazing outside shot. (Tuesday night, there was a moment when she was open at 22' and the ball swung to her; she didn't shoot it right away, but rather set and then nailed it. Shooting when set, rather than in momentum, is one of the hardest things to do. It shows supreme self-confidence.)

 

[my2cents]

I looked at the thread to see your reply to nan. I didn't see it. BTW, who told you to shut up?

mfsb22 replied to Nan on page three....sums up my point
Did I say you said shut up? No
i said, the attitude, other than 100% cheerleading, is to keep your comments to yourself

 

[j66kicker]

What I remember was Geno called Kia in and told her she was trying to do to much - that there was no expectation she needed to be the leader, and that she didn’t need to take that burden on herself. I don’t ever remember it being reported that Kia initiated that discussion and said she couln’t handle it...

 

[CocoHusky]

mfsb22 replied to Nan on page three....sums up my point
Did I say you said shut up? No
i said, the attitude, other than 100% cheerleading, is to keep your comments to yourself

Lol
Telling someone to shut up is probably against the BY rules.
Telling someone "keep your comments to yourself" is kind of funny on the BY.

 

[Charliebball]

That might have been what you were trying to say but what you actuall said first was:

I didn't even have to take off my UCONN colored blinders to see that first statement is just not correct.

we will have to agree to disagree..........................for me the two statements don't conflict at all...................Kia's off to a fine start but that doesn't mean that she's close to a lock as a first team AA at this moment in time................heck, I would love it if all six UConn standouts were honored as AAs but that doesn't mean it's going to happen or that they would be deserving above all others.................that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it...................hopefully we can move on without any fireworks................differing opinions are what makes this place so enjoyable!!!!

 

[CocoHusky]

 

[eebmg]

Just a thought. Perhaps using the WNBA draft as a "better" indicator of a player's overall "worth" than AA, it would be very interesting (to me) to see how well AA status translates into the WNBA draft position (especially 1st round) and even looking at correlations to overall WNBA career (ex, fraction of 1st round AA making it in the WNBA 3+ years etc) I know it is at times apples and oranges but it would be interesting to me at least. (Too lazy to do the research myself)

 

[CocoHusky]

Just a thought. Perhaps using the WNBA draft as a "better" indicator of a player's overall "worth" than AA, it would be very interesting (to me) to see how well AA status translates into the WNBA draft position (especially 1st round) and even looking at correlations to overall WNBA career (ex, fraction of 1st round AA making it in the WNBA 3+ years etc) I know it is at times apples and oranges but it would be interesting to me at least. (Too lazy to do the research myself)

My guess is you will find as many misses and subjective arguments in draft position as you do with the AA lists.
My example would start with Alaina Coates # 2 WNBA 2017 draft pick who is completely useless more than 8 feet away from the basket with the ball in her hands. If I read one more post about what an WNBA ready body Coates has I'm going to vomit.

 

[chrissaran]

Geno and CD pick the team apart all the time, which is why the program has achieved at a level that no other program has. They are not perfect, and none of us has said we are perfect. When we see something the players did that was great, we cheer them. When we see something the players could have done better, we mention it. That's the fun part of sports is the discussion. If all everybody who posted said was everything is perfect, it would be boring and false. Life is not that way and neither are the UConn women basketball players. Does it bother you when Meg and Rebecca criticize UConn?

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I had to rewrite this as my 1st attempt was taken down.

I have to say this, I wish there was a law that if UCON WBB fans make comments during the games they should be sentenced to 20 years in Leavenworth!
God people wait till the game is over then comment! negative chatter about players and coaches then UCONN wins by 20+ points!
I got back from the game around 10pm, showered and sat down to look at the BONEYARD, first mistake! I started at page 1 through all 14 pages of hate, discontent, disbelief, and overall I thought I was reading about an 8th grade game!
How did Geno & CD win 1,000 games! They really are miracle workers to have even won 1 game with the players that have gone through the program, especially this years players!
BE FANS NOT CRITICS! Give the players and coaches a break, PLEASE!
They don't try to screw up to upset you, they are human and make mistakes or get tired or are sick/injured, and stuff happens!
Enough PLEASE!

 

[chrissaran]

Enough of the everything is perfect. Many people commented that last year when Geno said Lou had no heart, that it crossed a line. Geno, CD and the staff are hard on them, which is why they have won 1,000 faster than any other coach. If a person is a true fan, then they are honest. Yes is my favorite fansband, but some of their music is overindulgent or just bad. That's the truth. I've seen them seventeen times in concert. I don't like all of their music, but I'm still a fan.

 

[dogged1]

I had to rewrite this as my 1st attempt was taken down.

I have to say this, I wish there was a law that if UCON WBB fans make comments during the games they should be sentenced to 20 years in Leavenworth!
God people wait till the game is over then comment! negative chatter about players and coaches then UCONN wins by 20+ points!
I got back from the game around 10pm, showered and sat down to look at the BONEYARD, first mistake! I started at page 1 through all 14 pages of hate, discontent, disbelief, and overall I thought I was reading about an 8th grade game!
How did Geno & CD win 1,000 games! They really are miracle workers to have even won 1 game with the players that have gone through the program, especially this years players!
BE FANS NOT CRITICS! Give the players and coaches a break, PLEASE!
They don't try to screw up to upset you, they are human and make mistakes or get tired or are sick/injured, and stuff happens!
Enough PLEASE!

RSHERMVIKES, you are a great poster and more important a great Uconn fan. But you have got to realize that some fans are analytic,and some fans are critical. It's just who they are and how they contribute, they still love the team every bit as much as you do. Asking them to stop being who they are is a waste of keystrokes.
So keep on doing what you do and showing us your love for this team. It brings balance to the yard.

 

[CocoHusky]

I had to rewrite this as my 1st attempt was taken down.
I have to say this, I wish there was a law that if UCON WBB fans make comments during the games they should be sentenced to 20 years in Leavenworth!
God people wait till the game is over then comment! negative chatter about players and coaches then UCONN wins by 20+ points!
I got back from the game around 10pm, showered and sat down to look at the BONEYARD, first mistake! I started at page 1 through all 14 pages of hate, discontent, disbelief, and overall I thought I was reading about an 8th grade game!
How did Geno & CD win 1,000 games! They really are miracle workers to have even won 1 game with the players that have gone through the program, especially this years players!
BE FANS NOT CRITICS! Give the players and coaches a break, PLEASE!
They don't try to screw up to upset you, they are human and make mistakes or get tired or are sick/injured, and stuff happens!
Enough PLEASE!

@RSHERMVIKES appreciate your passion and much of what you are saying. However, telling someone how to be a fan of any team is like telling adults how to raise their children. In that exchange you will always reach a point where "somebody" will think you are being too intrusive. I agree that some (not most) of the comments during the game are dead wrong, mean spirited, & negative. Overwhelmingly these comments are harmless. It would be like me complaining about your overuse of the exclamation point in your post. That is intrusive & obnoxious but since it is grammatically correct-where is the harm? Merry Christmas. Don’t ever let someone else steal your joy of watching this team perform.

 

[chrissaran]

RSHERMVIKES, thank you. I want UConn to succeed just like all the other people who post. If you ask those posters who post "negative" comments, they want the team to succeed as much as anyone.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I think what upsets me most is the majority of people with their ultra negative comments, at the end of the game apologize for those comments, then the next game it is a repeat performance.

 

[CocoHusky]

I think what upsets me most is the majority of people with their ultra negative comments, at the end of the game apologize for those comments, then the next game it is a repeat performance.

I think they call that "trolling".

 

[chrissaran]

I don't apologize for my view of the game. It is not the same as anyone else's, but it is my view.

 

[donalddoowop]

What I remember was Geno called Kia in and told her she was trying to do to much - that there was no expectation she needed to be the leader, and that she didn’t need to take that burden on herself. I don’t ever remember it being reported that Kia initiated that discussion and said she couln’t handle it...

I agree with what you are saying but Kia stated that she did not want that responsibility at that time. Soon after Geno talked to her about that she relaxed and played better. I'm not making this up.

 

[HuskyNan]

The "usual dismissal" is if someone ( I made no comment on the game) says (ie)KLS had a bad shooting night...the reply would be..we won the game by 24 points and we have won 11 National championships, and 157-2, so basically "Shut up"
As for the "well thought out" was , staying with the above example, a shooting % might be given.
There was a better example of ny point as a reply to HuskyNAN

So, what you’re saying is that you don’t want anyone to disagree with you