A couple of post-OK game thoughts

[Centerstream]

KLS is and has been getting beat up and she was definitely fouled on that three point attempt. I'm not willing to go as far as you did however, I don't notice any difference depending on the gender of the refs. I see good and bad refs of both gender calling these games.

I was not offering my opinion on the quality of the officiating, I was only offering my opinion on who was making which type of call. To elaborate, all three refs made violation type calls but only the two men refs made the vast majority of the foul calls. When I watched the game a second time today, I tried to verify this and I am pretty sure that she did not make any but I could have missed a couple and there were calls that two refs would call simultaneously but it seemed to me that the men refs were the one that reported it to the scorer's table. But it is not a big deal, just my casual observation.

 

[donalddoowop]

All players struggle, no one is exempt from that just look at the final four game.

You missed my point. Kia told the staff she thought the responsibility of being a leader was too much for her at that time. As a result she struggled early because of that. Once they told her it was not her responsibility she relaxed and played better. That info was on the BY last season and shown in an interview. I know most players struggle.

 

[donalddoowop]

You mean no one else did and no one else who did, had a bad ankle.

You need to stop making excuses for KLS. She has not been favoring her ankle. She is not the only one who had trouble on defense but she was the subject of the post.

 

[CocoHusky]

You missed my point. Kia told the staff she thought the responsibility of being a leader was too much for her at that time. As a result she struggled early because of that. Once they told her it was not her responsibility she relaxed and played better. That info was on the BY last season and shown in an interview. I know most players struggle.

@donalddoowop this is the second time you have stated that: "Kia told the staff she did not want the responsibility of being a leader ". I recall reading differently (quite the opposite) and do not recall an interview where this was discussed. My understanding of the leadership role at UCONN is that it is not something that any upper classman would not accept responsibility for because leadership is not optional in this program.
Most of what I recall is contained in this article in which CD says of Kia:
Kia Nurse, Gabby Williams have emerged as leaders as UConn women chase history
"Kia has been pretty much steady. Although her role has grown, I think she has a calmness about her because of all of her experience, she is a leader for us. I think they have embraced what we have asked them to do. "

 

[hoophuskee]

We all agree with you about Geno/CD and their amazing accomplishments.
If someone on this board wants to comment about a game/ play or other item, let them. Too many people on this board want to censure what they perceive to be "negative" comments. Most of these basketball comments are pretty well thought out and deserve more than the usual dismissal by the same people on here.

I don't know if thee has been as much this year as other years in terms of complaining. But I don't know what you mean by "the usual dismissal" -- and is it even relevant? ]

Secondly in terms of "well thought out" -- 1-- who says/judges that most are well thought out? 2-- Who cares if they are well thought out if/yet they are wrong?

Third- - I've found several that complain (as the team has won 4 titles in 5 years and lost about 2 games during a 4 year stretch) are very thin-skinned once you disagree with them. They want everyone "to feel" their concern. Well, what if you don't "feel it" and just think the concern is hogwash? Is that considered then "the usual dismissal?" It's okay to call an opposing view "hogwash" in some manner, isn't it?

 

[MilfordHusky]

Just back from the game.
I sat upstairs in the corner, perfect view of the court; great arena to see a game.

I thought it was a strange game, in a slightly strange season.
UConn let Sherri's team hang around. Like other teams this season, they weren't intimidated and possessed decent skills, fought and hung around. In the 3rd quarter they did more than that and fought back to -7 and the thought started seeping around the arena that UConn could actually lose and spoil the party.
At that point, Geno took put a slightly rattled Dangerfield and order was restored.

Although it probably hardly shows in the box (wrong 10 rebounds, 8 assists)...Gabby's fight and intensity was the difference. She willed the team to perform and they started to.

At the end of the 3rd and through much of the 4th, the teams passing and patience brought makable shots in the paint and some beautiful BB ensued.

So why the lapses? Why the lack of a killer instinct?
Hard to say, but I'll take a crack...Pheesa still loses concentration on D (esp 1st quarter) and lets her man escape for an easy shot. For a lot of the game Nurse disappeared on O. One problem for Z: as the ball sails around the perimeter; it takes her a bit longer to figure out what to do with the ball than the others...and the O grinds to a halt. But not when she's the recipient of a pass in her scoring zone.

Looking at what I just wrote above...that's not it...Those things happened but the essence is simpler.

What it is is this team is just a bit soft, has trouble playing with the kind of purpose and intensity we're used to.
Expects to win and surprised when other teams don't role over.
Well, they're not going to. You can finesse all you like but the opponents will punch you in the mouth (like what happened to Gabby today)...
The Huskies have to find their inner toughness
Everyone's going to come after them.

I want to expand on just one point, which could be a very good sign for WCBB. By and large, teams have not rolled over this year. They fight for 40 minutes, which suggests better coaching, better fitness, and more mental toughness. Maybe UConn is raising the game for everyone.

 

[hoophuskee]

That's a good qustion, I'll get back to you with that list......in the meantime, this year's team has yet to click on all cylinders which is pretty amazing considering that they are still reeling off significant victories over ranked teams..as I remember saying this past summer when the AA discussion came up, it was going to be difficult from a statistical standpoint for the individual players to repeat last years's statistics based on less floor time, not even anticipating the injury bug which has weakened the team...just to highlight that this season really is a team effort, there are no UConn players in the top 50 in scoring, no UConn players in the top 50 in rebounds, no UConn players in the top 50 in steals, no UConn players in the top 50 in blocks, CD is #40 in assists and AZ is #26 in shooting percentage/Kia is #38......just goes to show that stats aren't everything when it comes to winning ...I do expect that by the end of the season we'll see an even higher level of play which should evidence itself with better stats which are one component of the AA selections.....

I'm with coco here. I assume you mean as of this moment. For starters, UCONN has either the number 1 number 2 ranked schedule. As of right now Kia Nurse is off-the-charts. She is the 2nd leading scorer on the number 1 team in the country. Usually number 1 teams get at least one a/a. And when you are doing what she's doing while having the number 1 team in the country by averaging 15.6 ppg (Morgan Tuck got 1st team a/a by averaging just 13.7 ppg) -- her efficiency for a guard -- a winning unbeaten guard-- is stunning. Her efg% is 72%. Not to mention she guards tough scorers-- just not an offensive player.

You may find players with better stats. But as we see with Tuck-- you don't need super stats.

 

[hoophuskee]

Surprising comments. I looked at game as positive. UConn took a good team's best punch, changed both defensive and offensive strategies, and blew them away at end of game only using 6 players (several of which were in foul trouble). One of Geno's better coaching games. Shows UConn can play several different ways.

Yes I saw the game completely different than msfbb. I thought that poster (though I'm not 100% sure) and maybe another - or few - made an observation in soem manner that "order was restored when Danger came back in?" That's not what happened. Nurse restored order when Danger got pulled.

 

[Charliebball]

I'm with coco here. I assume you mean as of this moment. For starters, UCONN has either the number 1 number 2 ranked schedule. As of right now Kia Nurse is off-the-charts. She is the 2nd leading scorer on the number 1 team in the country. Usually number 1 teams get at least one a/a. And when you are doing what she's doing while having the number 1 team in the country by averaging 15.6 ppg (Morgan Tuck got 1st team a/a by averaging just 13.7 ppg) -- her efficiency for a guard -- a winning unbeaten guard-- is stunning. Her efg% is 72%. Not to mention she guards tough scorers-- just not an offensive player.

You may find players with better stats. But as we see with Tuck-- you don't need super stats.

yes I'm speaking as of right now......I believe all of the team can play to a higher standard as the season moves along............Nurse has been the team's most consistent player so far but would you say she's having a better season then Ionescu, Durr or Ogunbowale? That's a tough call................

 

[BobbyJ]

Last night I re-watched the game knowing the outcome so the uncertainty was not there. I had complained about the officials. Close viewing showed they actually did a very good job, didn't miss much, and called a fairly even game. My bad there. The game in review was very well played. Sure there were stretches where shots were not falling which happens for most teams during a game. I totally agree the TO that Geno called was well timed and worked out well. OK played well but when a player got hot a different defender (usually Kia) moved to guard that player and the bleeding stopped. Z can be an offensive force BUT currently is a liability on defense. Her man often cancels out her scoring. She tends to float around still uncertain were to be. That will come in time. Seems to play much more aggressively when she is the designated scoring option. Only 9 games this year - it takes time to gel and have everyone on the same page.

One thing I had not noticed the first time watching - UConn wore white. Don't they usually wear gray for 'Home' games away from the college?

The team played far better when watching a second time!

I’m hoping that they burned the gray unis.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I’m hoping that they burned the gray unis.

Sorry, but whenever they play in Hartford they will be wearing the home gray uniforms.

 

[msf22b]

Yes I saw the game completely different than msfbb. I thought that poster (though I'm not 100% sure) and maybe another - or few - made an observation in soem manner that "order was restored when Danger came back in?" That's not what happened. Nurse restored order when Danger got pulled.

I mis-typed when I wrote: At that point, Geno took put a slightly rattled Dangerfield and order was restored.
Of course I meant "took out," sorry.

 

[Kevinmac]

The game was fun to be part of. I though Oklahoma played hard. They had lost three players with injurys before season started.
Gabby's game has changed this year due to headaches. She has no offense other than drivening to basket. Her 15 foot shot she does not take now. She creates fouls outside of ten feet that senior should not be making. Hopefully the poor competition of American Conference will get her comfortable.

 

[hoophuskee]

I mis-typed when I wrote: At that point, Geno took put a slightly rattled Dangerfield and order was restored.
Of course I meant "took out," sorry.

sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I read others that I thoughth said she stabilized. Anyways -- sorry!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hoophuskee]

yes I'm speaking as of right now.I believe all of the team can play to a higher standard as the season moves along..Nurse has been the team's most consistent player so far but would you say she's having a better season then Ionescu, Durr or Ogunbowale? That's a tough call......

Ogunbowle? The same player that shot 8-25 from the floor vs UCONN? It seems like you are picking the high scorers. Morgan Tuck got in just averaging 13.7 ppg and 5.7 rebounds. Why do you need gaudy stats -- and not just solid ones for an unbeaten team that has played the best (or 2nd) schedule in wcbb in which the efficiency stats are't just good or aren't just "great" they are unbelievably great for a guard playing against THE BEST.

IMO Nurse vs Ogunbowale right now - and it isn't close. It's Nurse. Og is averaging 17 shots a game. OFC she is going to average 20 points with a good pg and good post play as she jacks up 17 shots per. Her EFG% is 50%. Nurse is 72%. That's an enormous difference. It's not like Nurse isn't scoring.

As for Ionescu. They've been beaten two times already. One game she was absolutely dreadful. And the other game -- bad. That's a 1st team a/a - she is leading her team to what? I'm not saying she isn't terrific. But again -- you've seen teams that go undefeated -- especially considering UCONN has had the best schedule or 2nd best in all of wcbb- you've seen them get a/a's in vs the gaudy stat makers. So why is "today" different?

ANd your point of "they can play to a higher standard"-- how is that relevant at the moment when comparing player vs another as to who gets in if season ends right now?

 

[bbsamjj]

Your points on Nurse are not unwarranted--she is averaging an amazing shooting percentage right now and playing excellent basketball for the #1 team in the nation. But your standard for Ionescu is a little absurd. Yes her team has been beaten twice--by teams currently ranked #3 and #5 in the nation (both games were, btw, on the road, and I don't think anyone would say Oregon has more talent than either team). Unlike Kia Nurse, I bet opposing teams plan their defenses to stop Ionescu. You can't do that at UConn--every position is a threat. If I was an opposing coach playing against UConn, I'd tell my players to never let Nurse get an open 3 (more than 50% of her makes from the year are from 3), but I'd honestly be more concerned about defending KLS, Dangerfield, and Azura.

And FWIW, UConn and Oregon have had one common opponent thus far: Oklahoma. Both had excellent games with very different expectations:

Nurse: 17 pts, 6-10 FG, 2 rebounds, 1 assist
Ionecu: 38 pts, 10-20 FG, 7 rebounds, 6 assists

 

[Gus Mahler]

Just saw the game on replay tonight (thanks!). I was pleased with how well Pheesa was moving. Seemed natural, free, and easy.

 

[hoophuskee]

Your points on Nurse are not unwarranted--she is averaging an amazing shooting percentage right now and playing excellent basketball for the #1 team in the nation. But your standard for Ionescu is a little absurd. Yes her team has been beaten twice--by teams currently ranked #3 and #5 in the nation (both games were, btw, on the road, and I don't think anyone would say Oregon has more talent than either team). Unlike Kia Nurse, I bet opposing teams plan their defenses to stop Ionescu. You can't do that at UConn--every position is a threat. If I was an opposing coach playing against UConn, I'd tell my players to never let Nurse get an open 3 (more than 50% of her makes from the year are from 3), but I'd honestly be more concerned about defending KLS, Dangerfield, and Azura.

And FWIW, UConn and Oregon have had one common opponent thus far: Oklahoma. Both had excellent games with very different expectations:

Nurse: 17 pts, 6-10 FG, 2 rebounds, 1 assist
Ionecu: 38 pts, 10-20 FG, 7 rebounds, 6 assists

Did I say Ionescu stinks? Didn't I say "I'm not saying she isn't terrific." --- ? What does that mean? Doesn't it mean Im saying "she is terrific?" Secondly, it's great that you bring up "entire team's defenses are being used to stop her. . ." Yet when UCONN has had 3 all-americans make it-- there were at least two that weren't the primary option. Isn't that correct? SO last year when UCONN used "their entire defense to stop her" because you couldn't do that to the UCONN player, does this mean Ionescu was more deserving as a 1st team a/a because UCONN was more of a team?

Also-- what Kia Nurse -- so far is doing is historic. Please find me one player one guard - in which she has played the toughest schedule in wcbb - the toughest schedule in wcbb - the toughest schedule in wcbb- the toughest schedule in wcbb -- and she is 2nd on the team in scoring that is undefeated - and she is 2nd on the team in scoring and she is 2nd on the team in scoring --has an efg% of 72%. Please find me one guard in the history of the wcbb sport for the number 1 team in which she is 2nd in team scoring shooting the efficiency she is doing.

The point is you can't. This doesn't mean Ionescu stinks. It just means that winning and historic stats are superior to losing in which a player has a defense focused on her. BTW-- please name me one undefeated team in wcbb history who has played the toughest schedule in wcbb (or 2nd) and they didn't get one 1st team a/a on it.

As far as your point on talent-- it is extremely irrelevant. Nurse's efg% is 72%. It's historic. The "most talented players" I just disagree in the manner you speak. Diamond D "was very talented." Many players are "very talented" and the focus of their defense. Winning counts. If you don't think so-- then please explain why Morgan Tuck got 1st team? Because her stats were not outstanding. And was she the focus of the opposing team's defense? No. SO why is it relevant in the manner you speak when we look at Nurse AT THIS MOMENT have historic numbers. Please me which one player in the history of wcbb - a guard - who has had these efficiency stats while being 2nd in scoring on an undefeated team with the toughest or 2nd toughest schedule?

Winning counts a lot. Coming close -- not so much. Oregon being led by Ionescu hasn't beaten one top 15 team. When she has played the best competition she has been "stopped." To put her above a player on an undefeated team that has played the toughest schedule in which said player is on a historic run is just lunacy. OFC the numbers could change 3 weeks from now. But we are talking AT THIS MOMENT. AT THIS MOMENT OREGON HAS DONE LITTLE - and their leader has played pretty darn bad in those big games. For the record, in the future I definitely do expect that to change. But you can't ignore the bad performances vs the top 15 because it doesn't fit your argument.

 

[donalddoowop]

@donalddoowop this is the second time you have stated that: "Kia told the staff she did not want the responsibility of being a leader ". I recall reading differently (quite the opposite) and do not recall an interview where this was discussed. My understanding of the leadership role at UCONN is that it is not something that any upper classman would not accept responsibility for because leadership is not optional in this program.
Most of what I recall is contained in this article in which CD says of Kia:
Kia Nurse, Gabby Williams have emerged as leaders as UConn women chase history
"Kia has been pretty much steady. Although her role has grown, I think she has a calmness about her because of all of her experience, she is a leader for us. I think they have embraced what we have asked them to do. "

What time of the year was that? I'm talking about the first two weeks of the season when Nurse was struggling. Nurse and Geno discussed it. Why do you always think that if you have not read or heard something that that something did not happen? Wake up Coco. You do miss some things.

 

[CocoHusky]

Why do you always think that if you have not read or heard something that that something did not happen?

Becuase you are the ONLY source and you have a history of these SOLO unsubstaintaited claims. Can't imagine that any player on a UCONN WBB would refuse to be a leader and Geno would be ok with that. You said it was posted here on the BY, I don't recall it. Surely someone else might? Anyone else recall this?
FYI Kia had hernia surgery July 2016 , Summer Olympics, & ankle injury at the start of conference play which was the main reasons for her needing rest and the likely explanation for a slow start to her Junior season -just in case you missed that.

 

[my2cents]

I don't know if thee has been as much this year as other years in terms of complaining. But I don't know what you mean by "the usual dismissal" -- and is it even relevant? ]

Secondly in terms of "well thought out" -- 1-- who says/judges that most are well thought out? 2-- Who cares if they are well thought out if/yet they are wrong?

Third- - I've found several that complain (as the team has won 4 titles in 5 years and lost about 2 games during a 4 year stretch) are very thin-skinned once you disagree with them. They want everyone "to feel" their concern. Well, what if you don't "feel it" and just think the concern is hogwash? Is that considered then "the usual dismissal?" It's okay to call an opposing view "hogwash" in some manner, isn't it?

The "usual dismissal" is if someone ( I made no comment on the game) says (ie)KLS had a bad shooting night...the reply would be..we won the game by 24 points and we have won 11 National championships, and 157-2, so basically "Shut up"
As for the "well thought out" was , staying with the above example, a shooting % might be given.
There was a better example of ny point as a reply to HuskyNAN

 

[hoophuskee]

The "usual dismissal" is if someone ( I made no comment on the game) says (ie)KLS had a bad shooting night...the reply would be..we won the game by 24 points and we have won 11 National championships, and 157-2, so basically "Shut up"
As for the "well thought out" was , staying with the above example, a shooting % might be given.
There was a better example of ny point as a reply to HuskyNAN

I looked at the thread to see your reply to nan. I didn't see it. BTW, who told you to shut up?

 

[Charliebball]

Ogunbowle? The same player that shot 8-25 from the floor vs UCONN? It seems like you are picking the high scorers. Morgan Tuck got in just averaging 13.7 ppg and 5.7 rebounds. Why do you need gaudy stats -- and not just solid ones for an unbeaten team that has played the best (or 2nd) schedule in wcbb in which the efficiency stats are't just good or aren't just "great" they are unbelievably great for a guard playing against THE BEST.

IMO Nurse vs Ogunbowale right now - and it isn't close. It's Nurse. Og is averaging 17 shots a game. OFC she is going to average 20 points with a good pg and good post play as she jacks up 17 shots per. Her EFG% is 50%. Nurse is 72%. That's an enormous difference. It's not like Nurse isn't scoring.

As for Ionescu. They've been beaten two times already. One game she was absolutely dreadful. And the other game -- bad. That's a 1st team a/a - she is leading her team to what? I'm not saying she isn't terrific. But again -- you've seen teams that go undefeated -- especially considering UCONN has had the best schedule or 2nd best in all of wcbb- you've seen them get a/a's in vs the gaudy stat makers. So why is "today" different?

ANd your point of "they can play to a higher standard"-- how is that relevant at the moment when comparing player vs another as to who gets in if season ends right now?

I was making the point that I fully expect UConn's AA's from last year to be in the running by the end of the season because as of today, I don't know that Gabby, Napheesa or KLS would be front runners..................is EFG% the only stat that is significant to the AA committee? How they make their decisions is somewhat of a mystery to me................as for Arike, I'll let the ND boys fight for her place as an AA............

 

[CocoHusky]

Winning counts a lot. Coming close -- not so much. Oregon being led by Ionescu hasn't beaten one top 15 team. When she has played the best competition she has been "stopped." To put her above a player on an undefeated team that has played the toughest schedule in which said player is on a historic run is just lunacy. OFC the numbers could change 3 weeks from now. But we are talking AT THIS MOMENT. AT THIS MOMENT OREGON HAS DONE LITTLE - and their leader has played pretty darn bad in those big games.

The bolded point is technically not correct since both Duke and MD were top 15 teams that Sabrina took down last year in the tournament.
Sabrina is a terrific player having a terrific season so far. So far Sabrina is not having a better season than Kia Nurse. No NCAA guard is having a better season than Kia Nurse so far. Consider that Kia is shooting the ball at a historical clip, the schedule that UCONN has played, and her impact on the defensive side of the ball.

.

 

[Charliebball]

The bolded point is technically not correct since both Duke and MD were top 15 teams that Sabrina took down last year in the tournament.
Sabrina is a terrific player having a terrific season so far. So far Sabrina is not having a better season than Kia Nurse. No NCAA guard is having a better season than Kia Nurse so far. Consider that Kia is shooting the ball at a historical clip, the schedule that UCONN has played, and her impact on the defensive side of the ball.

.

I have the greatest respect for Kia's skills on and off the court and in my mind she has been UConn's MVP so far this season.............nothing would please me more then to see her graduate as an AA............my point all along was to say that our little group can sometimes have blinders on when it comes to other team's great players.................