1st team AA

[Sonny44]

Agree. I can't see Wilson or Coates as first team. They are up there because of their team. If they are that good why did they just squeak by MsSt last night?

 

[Oldbones]

For decades first team was 5 players. This move to 10 always seemed like grade inflation to me. I like the traditional 5 player teams. If you want to discuss 10, then that's the 2nd team.

I like the ten, as two teams, with top-grade and almost interchangeable reserves. We still know who the top 5 are, and it got our much-loved Stef and Morgan up on the wall, where they both belonged. Plus, it creates a full, more realistic team that can play 40 minutes, allowing for rest, fouls and injuries, since no one, not even Geno, plays an iron 5. The Olympic team comprises twelve players, although no one would argue that the IOC knows what it is doing.

 

[Jim R]

Agree. I can't see Wilson or Coates as first team. They are up there because of their team. If they are that good why did they just squeak by MsSt last night?

Unfortunately, WCBB writers have, since their rise to a Top Ten team, been in love with everything South Carolina does, despite the obvious flaws in their coaching and performance. And, that includes our own Rebecca Lobo. Granted, they've definitely improved under Staley, but, as Geno says, it certainly helps to have the horses. As far as AA, while we tend to fall in love with great shooters, our silent assassin, Napheesa, is hard to overlook.

 

[CocoHusky]

I do not understand the Coates love affair. Her scoring is limited to within 5 feet of the basket. She gets all her points and rebounds by being bigger and stronger than the competition. Aja Wilson is far better with real offensive and defensive skills and a real 1st team AA

That's just it. She's a rare specimen. Great hands, runs the floor well and dominant inside. It's rare that she's outmuscled inside (even by bigger players) and when she is going against a bigger player she usually beats them to the rebound by getting off her feet quicker. Coates is a true center in an era where every 6'4/6'5 girl wants to play like a stretch-4.. she's a unicorn because she doesn't try to be anything she's not, instead she's just really really good and better than just about everybody else at what's required of her.

Coates benefits from the overall success of South Carolina not being out of top 5 since until recently. She also benefits from her size at the basket and at the basket ONLY. Coates is largely the same player she was as a Freshmen. She has not developed a counter move or the ability to finish with her off hand. She is not dominant inside presence because South Carolina has given up nearly as many offensive rebounds 237 as it has gotten 250. A simple 8-10 foot jump shot from Coates would have been an enormous help to South Carolina in the last 4 years she has been in uniform. Today teams can still pack the paint and in the South Carolina offense if Coates catches the ball at the top of the key the offense will bog down. Last night against MSU the South Carolina offense had it's best stretch while Coates was sitting. To her credit Coates did beat MSU freshmen from the high post going right for a layup that proved to be a huge (game winning) play. Now a jumper from that same spot by Coates and I'll be really impressed.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'd take Osahor over Coates and Wilson any day of the week.

 

[meyers7]

Yeah, so?

Soooo, you brought up 1st team AA. WBCA and USBWA are 10 person 1st teams.

 

[meyers7]

Totally agree. "This move" was a UConn move - to basically recognize second team AA's on the HOH. I think it dilutes the real value/meaning of being a HOH. Staying with true "first team" AA would probably have eliminated Tuck, Hartley and others. They were great Huskies and I love them, but they weren't on the same level as Sales, Bird, Cash, Ralph, Abrosimova and some other clear first team AA "non-Rushmore" HOH's. JMO

WBCA has been a 10 member 1st team since 1975. Really doubt UCONN had anything to do with it. SMH.

 

[j66kicker]

WBCA has been a 10 member 1st team since 1975. Really doubt UCONN had anything to do with it. SMH.

I meant UCONN decides which AA team to recognize for their HOH - WBCA / State Farm, whatever

 

[meyers7]

I meant UCONN decides which AA team to recognize for their HOH - WBCA / State Farm, whatever

They pretty much use all the major ones. AP, WBCA, USWBA. Which are all 1st team.

 

[warbler1055]

Much too soon for AA honors!!! Best players on best teams in March should be AA!!! I am unashamedly biased and root for my UConn players!!!

 

[SCGamecock]

Coates benefits from the overall success of South Carolina not being out of top 5 since until recently.

Sure.

Coates is largely the same player she was as a Freshmen.

Nah. You don't even actually believe this so I won't waste my time.

She is not dominant inside presence because South Carolina has given up nearly as many offensive rebounds 237 as it has gotten 250.

Nice TEAM stat.. but it doesn't tell the entire story. Don't forget about all of the little things Coates does that you won't find in a box score... like her ability to alter shots, etc..

A simple 8-10 foot jump shot from Coates would have been an enormous help to South Carolina in the last 4 years she has been in uniform.

Again, she doesn't have to do this... she's excellent elsewhere. If I have a player that's superb on the low block (and rarely beaten there) why would I move her away from her bread and butter and put her somewhere else to take a lower percentage shot when I know I'm basically guaranteed to get the higher percentage shot? To me that's bad coaching... heck no, I would want Coates to live down low and get those putbacks. I would want her to be really good at her bread and butter... and she is.

I see this when other post players are brought up as well... somebody will post something like "well she doesn't shoot threes" or "she's really only good at putbacks".... Why does she need to complicate things when the other team has nobody that's capable of stopping her at doing the things she's actually SUPPOSED to be doing? LOL

We live in an age where people are obsessed with centers scoring facing the basket. We must realize that a center scoring facing the basket isn't a necessity, its not a part of the job duties.. it's really a bonus. If you have it.. GREAT... if not, fine, but you still need to be really good at being a CENTER. You need to be a force down low, you need to be aggressive at the basket, you need to get those rebounds, you need to be ready for the putback, you need to be able to pass from the paint to a guard on the wings, you need to block shots consistently, you need to run that dang floor at times... Coates does ALL of these things and MORE better than most at her position.

I just don't think it should reflect negatively on Coates that she can't (or hasn't shown that she can) do the things that Tina Charles does (who's a professional player and doesn't have to worry about things like.. school, for instance). If we look at Coates through the lens of being a center and doing what a center needs to do then there would be no argument as to why people like her game. Instead, we compare her to every stretch-5 that's ever existed.

I appreciate your post. You make good points.. but we mostly disagree.

 

[j66kicker]

They pretty much use all the major ones. AP, WBCA, USWBA. Which are all 1st team.

I'm pretty sure Geno's current HOH rule is WBCA 10-person AA team

 

[CocoHusky]

Sure.



Nah. You don't even actually believe this so I won't waste my time.



Nice TEAM stat.. but it doesn't tell the entire story. Don't forget about all of the little things Coates does that you won't find in a box score... like her ability to alter shots, etc..



Again, she doesn't have to do this... she's excellent elsewhere. If I have a player that's superb on the low block (and rarely beaten there) why would I move her away from her bread and butter and put her somewhere else to take a lower percentage shot when I know I'm basically guaranteed to get the higher percentage shot? To me that's bad coaching... heck no, I would want Coates to live down low and get those putbacks. I would want her to be really good at her bread and butter... and she is.

I see this when other post players are brought up as well... somebody will post something like "well she doesn't shoot threes" or "she's really only good at putbacks".... Why does she need to complicate things when the other team has nobody that's capable of stopping her at doing the things she's actually SUPPOSED to be doing? LOL

We live in an age where people are obsessed with centers scoring facing the basket. We must realize that a center scoring facing the basket isn't a necessity, its not a part of the job duties.. it's really a bonus. If you have it.. GREAT... if not, fine, but you still need to be really good at being a CENTER. You need to be a force down low, you need to be aggressive at the basket, you need to get those rebounds, you need to be ready for the putback, you need to be able to pass from the paint to a guard on the wings, you need to block shots consistently, you need to run that dang floor at times... Coates does ALL of these things and MORE better than most at her position.

I just don't think it should reflect negatively on Coates that she can't (or hasn't shown that she can) do the things that Tina Charles does (who's a professional player and doesn't have to worry about things like.. school, for instance). If we look at Coates through the lens of being a center and doing what a center needs to do then there would be no argument as to why people like her game. Instead, we compare her to every stretch-5 that's ever existed.

I appreciate your post. You make good points.. but we mostly disagree.

We are going to disagree entirely and Coates will come up even shorter if you use Tina Charles as a bench mark.
Coates is hardly the shot altering presence to claim:

• Freshmen Coates 73 Blocks in 668 minutes
• Sophomore Coates 53 blocks in 770 Minutes
• Junior Coates 45 Blocks in 937 Minutes
• Senior Coates 28 Blocks in 492 Minutes so far.

Notice a pattern? When I said Coates is largely the same player she was as a Freshmen-I was wrong, she has actually regressed. Coates is not "just good at backs" she is only good at put backs with her right hand, going right, and shooting over people that are shorter than her.
It is a very interesting contrast, and the exact reason why I'm a UCONN fan, when you think that people are "complicating things" by asking Coates to do more things. But then again I guess player development is pretty complicated at SC.

 

[rugbymate]

IMO, Jones from MD is the best big in the country and deserving of AA status....her complete set of stats when taking into account minutes played far exceed any other big and that includes Pheesa( although including her as a big is a stretch). Having said that Pheesa, IMO, is playing better than either Coates or Wilson.

 

[SCGamecock]

We are going to disagree entirely and Coates will come up even shorter if you use Tina Charles as a bench mark.
Coates is hardly the shot altering presence to claim:

• Freshmen Coates 73 Blocks in 668 minutes
• Sophomore Coates 53 blocks in 770 Minutes
• Junior Coates 45 Blocks in 937 Minutes
• Senior Coates 28 Blocks in 492 Minutes so far.

Notice a pattern? When I said Coates is largely the same player she was as a Freshmen-I was wrong, she has actually regressed. Coates is not "just good at backs" she is only good at put backs with her right hand, going right, and shooting over people that are shorter than her.
It is a very interesting contrast, and the exact reason why I'm a UCONN fan, when you think that people are "complicating things" by asking Coates to do more things. But then again I guess player development is pretty complicated at SC.

Again.. stats don't tell the entire story. You're not accounting for the rise of A'ja Wilson, who, in not even three complete seasons, is already the statistical leader in blocked shots at SC. You went and found one argument to support your claim without even looking at the full picture.. but I digress.. you're right. Coates is regressing. She's no good. She probably won't even get drafted. Poor her.

And as far as that last statement. You're better than that. I thought you and I were above petty low blows at this point.

 

[Go/huskies]

IMO, Jones from MD is the best big in the country and deserving of AA status....her complete set of stats when taking into account minutes played far exceed any other big and that includes Pheesa( although including her as a big is a stretch). Having said that Pheesa, IMO, is playing better than either Coates or Wilson.

I like Osahor as an All American, also Billings UCLA has gotten so much better, not sure she's an All American tho.

 

[CocoHusky]

Again.. stats don't tell the entire story. You're not accounting for the rise of A'ja Wilson, who, in not even three complete seasons, is already the statistical leader in blocked shots at SC. You went and found one argument to support your claim without even looking at the full picture.. but I digress.. you're right. Coates is regressing. She's no good. She probably won't even get drafted. Poor her. And as far as that last statement. You're better than that. I thought you and I were above petty low blows at this point.

We are definitely above trading "petty" low blows. I really was not trying to be petty just a smart ass. My apologies.

 

[SCGamecock]

IMO, Jones from MD is the best big in the country and deserving of AA status....her complete set of stats when taking into account minutes played far exceed any other big and that includes Pheesa( although including her as a big is a stretch). Having said that Pheesa, IMO, is playing better than either Coates or Wilson.

I like Jones a lot. I would be stunned if she's not an All-American. Another senior that has really taken her game to another level this season.

Collier has always intrigued me.. to me she's so much more than a big. She plays the 4 at UConn out of necessity but her game, IMHO, is very guard/forward-ish. I don't really think she's a true power forward.. If I could create a hybrid position for her then I liken her to be more of a 3/4 wing.. different from Samuelson, who I also think is a wing but more of the 3/2 variety. Collier is much more versatile offensively than either Coates or Wilson, so I think it's easier to say she's "playing better" in that aspect.

I like Osahor as an All American, also Billings UCLA has gotten so much better, not sure she's an All American tho.

Agreed. Osahor is putting up crazy rebounding numbers this year and I like Billings game a lot.. she may not be an All-American this year but I could definitely see her getting some accolades next year if she keeps improving.

 

[chrissaran]

You can't separate Katie Lou, Napheesa and Gabby. That is the problem. How do you not include a 5'11" center, who guards centers and guards equally as well, and leads the number one team in rebounds, assists and steals? Gabby has to be a first team AA. Katie Lou, my favorite player, and Napheesa as well, but the committee will never select three Huskies. That's just the truth. Add Kelsey Plum and a healthy Aja Wilson, and there are your five starters.

 

[CocoHusky]

You can't separate Katie Lou, Napheesa and Gabby. That is the problem. How do you not include a 5'11" center, who guards centers and guards equally as well, and leads the number one team in rebounds, assists and steals? Gabby has to be a first team AA. Katie Lou, my favorite player, and Napheesa as well, but the committee will never select three Huskies. That's just the truth. Add Kelsey Plum and a healthy Aja Wilson, and there are your five starters.

The WBCA has selected 3 UCONN Huskies for the AA team for 3 consecutive years now.
2016 Stewie, Moriah, Morgan
2015 Stewie, KML, Moriah
2014 Stewie, Bria, Stefanie

 

[OneTrickPony]

If Vivians was in the discussion, she worked her way out today. I was very unimpressed.

Lotta bad shots last night...

 

[MilfordHusky]

I'm pretty sure Geno's current HOH rule is WBCA 10-person AA team

I think it's any of the "major" selections.

 

[rugbymate]

I like Jones a lot. I would be stunned if she's not an All-American. Another senior that has really taken her game to another level this season.

Collier has always intrigued me.. to me she's so much more than a big. She plays the 4 at UConn out of necessity but her game, IMHO, is very guard/forward-ish. I don't really think she's a true power forward.. If I could create a hybrid position for her then I liken her to be more of a 3/4 wing.. different from Samuelson, who I also think is a wing but more of the 3/2 variety. Collier is much more versatile offensively than either Coates or Wilson, so I think it's easier to say she's "playing better" in that aspect.



Agreed. Osahor is putting up crazy rebounding numbers this year and I like Billings game a lot.. she may not be an All-American this year but I could definitely see her getting some accolades next year if she keeps improving.

By the Way...I have a great deal of respect for Coates and Wilson and both have great WNBA carriers ahead of them. But you made my point for me. Pheesa is playing the big position , which as you assert is not her natural position. That fact makes her performance( as measured by her overall stats and team impact) that much better than the other bigs with the exception of B Jones. Phee is a natural 3 but she typically plays the 4 or 5 position and excels at both. While one could argue both Coates and Wilson have AA credentials, if you are willing to make that argument then imo Pheesa should easily be AA.

 

[j66kicker]

I think it's any of the "major" selections.

Pretty sure it's strictly WBCA AA. I can't find much to support that however, except this...

Strother honored to be part of Huskies of Honor

"But an overtime loss to Duke that denied the Huskies a berth in the 2006 NCAA Final Four — a game Strother struggled mightily in — and likely cost her a spot on the WBCA All-America team, the criteria for induction."

 

[Los24]

That's just it. She's a rare specimen. Great hands, runs the floor well and dominant inside. It's rare that she's outmuscled inside (even by bigger players) and when she is going against a bigger player she usually beats them to the rebound by getting off her feet quicker. Coates is a true center in an era where every 6'4/6'5 girl wants to play like a stretch-4.. she's a unicorn because she doesn't try to be anything she's not, instead she's just really really good and better than just about everybody else at what's required of her.

Slow down. You lost me at unicorn. Porzingis can do everything including shoot 3s, dribble drive and play great defense. A true rareity at 7'3"

I actually think some folks on this board under rate Coates, but you are building her to be a bit more than she is in terms of overall game. You make it sound like not having an outside shot is a plus.... In terms of being a true big I would take the center from K-State, her overall game is better (she does not have outside shot either). That said she can dominate the boards in games and score on putbacks. I am weary about February's match up, but unless there is foul trouble, our team's offense is just too efficient when compared to the irratic and inconsistent offensive play I have seen when watching SC.

 

[Los24]

By the Way...I have a great deal of respect for Coates and Wilson and both have great WNBA carriers ahead of them. But you made my point for me. Pheesa is playing the big position , which as you assert is not her natural position. That fact makes her performance( as measured by her overall stats and team impact) that much better than the other bigs with the exception of B Jones. Phee is a natural 3 but she typically plays the 4 or 5 position and excels at both. While one could argue both Coates and Wilson have AA credentials, if you are willing to make that argument then imo Pheesa should easily be AA.

UConn fan here. I do not think using Pheese' or Gabby's lack of size gives them extra points. They play bigs tough but the (few) most talented bigs have gotten their averages against us in terms of points and rebounds. What is great is that they take advantage on the offensive mismatch when we have the ball too. Also, they have been able to generate turnovers on the feeds into bigs by leveraging their quickness.

 

[Phillyconn]

Totally agree. "This move" was a UConn move - to basically recognize second team AA's on the HOH. I think it dilutes the real value/meaning of being a HOH. Staying with true "first team" AA would probably have eliminated Tuck, Hartley and others. They were great Huskies and I love them, but they weren't on the same level as Sales, Bird, Cash, Ralph, Abrosimova and some other clear first team AA "non-Rushmore" HOH's. JMO

Tuck is on that level. Inside/outside, rebounding and assists. Not to mention defense, look what she did to South Carolina and AC.

 

[easttexastrash]

If Alexis Jones does not make first team then something is wrong. She is the best PG in the nation, IMO, and I don't even think anyone else is close. ND is not playing well enough as a team for me to put Allen on the first team.

 

[easttexastrash]

Wilson is one of the elite players in WCBB, on both ends of the floor. She is a lock and any discussion of her not being deserving should have been answered last night when she shot 10-13, scored 26 points, had 9 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 assists and 2 steals against a top 5 opponent.

 

[FASTEDDY]

The women's game's voters don't have the cajones to leave Wilson or Coates off the AP 1st team.

both players a re great but have not performed at the consistent level all season to be on the first team (5 members).

KLS and Collier absolutely have and BOTH of them should be on the 1st team. Remember, they have both excelled against the best competition.

IMO, Gabby deserves to make a 10 member 1st team and just to be fair and not greedy, I'd consent to put Nurse on 2nd team even though she has been a Great Player and Leader this year.