OT: WWC (Soccer) Thread

[Plebe]

Nope not that call. That's a penalty for sure.

Then which play were you talking about? Below is your comment that elicited the discussion. I can't think of any other penalty kick in the game...

I may have to look at the play from start but it sure looked both of England's player were offside...and not by an inch...therefore that penalty kick/VAR should have never taken place, if anything to check whether England was/were offside on play.
[/QUOTE]

 

[stamfordhusky]

The VAR did freeze it. Correct call. Offsides. Doesn't seem to be much complaining from the Brits so I assume they agree. Tough break. Soccer is a cruel game.

We weren't discussing that play - which as you say was clearly offside. The discussion was about whether White was offside just prior to the "foul" that led to the PK. She wasn't - but it was tough to tell in real time, since she was well past the defenders on her side of the field.

 

[Mdoggie]

We weren't discussing that play - which as you say was clearly offside. The discussion was about whether White was offside just prior to the "foul" that led to the PK. She wasn't - but it was tough to tell in real time, since she was well past the defenders on her side of the field.

I see. I stand corrected. Thanks

 

[Topsail]

The bottom line is the US won and are in the final. England or France could have beaten the US but the ladies hung tough. Rapinoe will play on Sunday but we will have to wait on Lavelle. Lavelle had hamstring issue earlier in the year.

 

[meyers7]

Easy for me to say from my chair, but O'Hara has to do a better job of stopping that cross from coming in. That was too easy.

Yes, and Dahlkemper has to actually mark the attacker running straight to the mouth of the goal.

True, but that was an excellent cross and excellent finish.

 

[meyers7]

In the abstract, I'm not a fan of VAR being used to judge a player a centimeter offsides retroactively.

In this particular instance, I'll make an exception.

Agree, that was too close to be called offside. Like Dunn's was last game. BUT, this game I'll take it.

 

[meyers7]

Make up Penalty Shot for offside call

Nope, that was definitely a penalty.

 

[meyers7]

Not by a guess (at least not in theory). When there's a stoppage situation the referee is supposed to track the time on their wristwatch.

I believe at this level the 4O backs up the CR also.

 

[meyers7]

Press did play well overall, but failing to lay that ball off to a wide-open Morgan in the second half could have proved costly. Overall I think Rapinoe's decisions and playmaking are more consistently quality than Press's.

Yea, she should have made the pass, however, she's a FW/ST and they shoot when they have a shot. Rapinoe would have done the same thing.

Rapinoe's decisions aren't really all that great (similar if she's got a shot or half chance, she's gonna take it), however, she does make really great plays on occasion.

 

[meyers7]

All calls in the game were good. Correct on offside, penalty and red card. VAR used just to confirm. Game ended as it should. Great jobs to both teams.

Almost. RC should have been a straight red (SFP) instead of a 2nd YC. She'll get dinged on that in her assessment.

 

[Centerstream]

Nope, that was definitely a penalty.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so nope, it was a flop.

 

[mbr33ct]

Huh? Why would the "Brits" be complaining about an offside call that wasn't made against them?

If you're still talking about the play where England was ultimately awarded a penalty by VAR, here it is:


Looks onside to me.

This is the play the penalty/VAR was called for White. At the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark, White is offside but was not called...therefore the penalty kick was given to White. In my original post, I mentioned the VAR was used to determine penalty kick, but I mentioned it should have never gone that far...VAR should have been used to determine offside, where White definitely is...at the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark of the attached video. Some of the comments on video also saying the same thing.

 

[mbr33ct]

No. White was onside at the moment the pass was made since she was actually slightly behind the ball and also behind the American defender (O'Hara) who was trying to mark the Brit who made the pass. If you freeze the action at the moment the pass was made, it is quite clear.

You may be looking at another play...I replied to @Plebe ....see above. White far side looks very much offside to me.

 

[stamfordhusky]

This is the play the penalty/VAR was called for White. At the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark, White is offside but was not called...therefore the penalty kick was given to White. In my original post, I mentioned the VAR was used to determine penalty kick, but I mentioned it should have never gone that far...VAR should have been used to determine offside, where White definitely is...at the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark of the attached video. Some of the comments on video also saying the same thing.
View attachment 44440

No. In the situation that you show, the pass went to the attacker on the left side - who is clearly onside. Then she eventually passed across to White, who was also clearly onside by that point.

 

[stamfordhusky]

You may be looking at another play...I replied to @Plebe ....see above. White far side looks very much offside to me.

No. I am guessing you are a very casual soccer fan. White is in an offside position - which is perfectly legal - BUT the pass went to the attacker on the left, who is very clearly onside. By the time, a cross was made to White, she too was onside. Video shows it was not close.

 

[mbr33ct]

No. In the situation that you show, the pass went to the attacker on the left side - who is clearly onside. Then she eventually passed across to White, who was also clearly onside by that point.

Let me understand the rules, White can be offside as long as she does not touch the ball first? I thought soccer was an easy game.

EDIT: and yes I am a casual fan...I come out once every 4 years.

 

[Bama fan]

Puir England! Now they won't be invited to Downing Street.

There is no one there to buy the fish and chips just now anyway.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Let me understand the rules, White can be offside as long as she does not touch the ball first? I thought soccer was an easy game.

EDIT: and yes I am a casual fan...I come out once every 4 years.

To be called for offside, she has to somehow get involved in the play. Can either touch the ball or interfere with a defender or screen the goalie. Etc. But if she doesn't do any of those things, she can stand in an offside position for 90 minutes and never draw a flag. (Note that there is a big difference between being offside and merely being in an offside position.)

 

[Mdoggie]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so nope, it was a flop.

Wrong. She clipped the back leg causing the penalty. Based on fact not opinion.

 

[Old Jim]

This is the play the penalty/VAR was called for White. At the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark, White is offside but was not called...therefore the penalty kick was given to White. In my original post, I mentioned the VAR was used to determine penalty kick, but I mentioned it should have never gone that far...VAR should have been used to determine offside, where White definitely is...at the 0:08 and 0:35 second mark of the attached video. Some of the comments on video also saying the same thing.
View attachment 44440

Since she is not effecting the play at that point it is not offside. Before the ball was played to her she got back on side, Therefore no offside on the play. Sorry Stamfordhusky already addressed the rule.

 

[Centerstream]

Wrong. She clipped the back leg causing the penalty. Based on fact not opinion.

And yet the announcers said that there wasn't a penalty. I didn't see a clear enough shot of any back leg clip. So it is a fact that it was a flop.

And this is the last that I am going to post concerning the flop. What I saw was not a penalty, what you (and others) saw, was considered a penalty. So be it.

 

[Plebe]

Let me understand the rules, White can be offside as long as she does not touch the ball first? I thought soccer was an easy game.

EDIT: and yes I am a casual fan...I come out once every 4 years.

Yes. There is a difference between being in an "offside position* and committing an "offside offense".

A player in an offside position doesn't commit an offense unless she either touches the ball or "interferes with the opponent".

Edit to add: A helpful reference, straight from the horse's mouth: http://theifab.com/laws/chapter/31/section/87/

 

[Mdoggie]

And yet the announcers said that there wasn't a penalty. I didn't see a clear enough shot of any back leg clip. So it is a fact that it was a flop.

And this is the last that I am going to post concerning the flop. What I saw was not a penalty, what you (and others) saw, was considered a penalty. So be it.

Cool

 

[SWHuskyFan]

They did show an angle that made it clear that the US defender made contact with her leg. I don’t know soccer rules well enough to understand the call. It also seemed clear that the contact was caused by White who had to bring her leg back at an odd angle because the pass was a bit behind her. Essentially she kicked our player who wasn’t directly behind her. When their legs made contact, White fell. I don’t think she did this on purpose but there’s nothing Suaerbrun could have done differently to avoid it. Reminded me of the three point shooter in basketball who kicks out their legs and draws a foul on a defender who is running to the side of them.

 

[Plebe]

And yet the announcers said that there wasn't a penalty. I didn't see a clear enough shot of any back leg clip. So it is a fact that it was a flop.

And this is the last that I am going to post concerning the flop. What I saw was not a penalty, what you (and others) saw, was considered a penalty. So be it.

If you're talking about the announcers on Fox, they acknowledged after seeing the replay, from a different angle, that it was indeed a penalty.

 

[Plebe]

They did show an angle that made it clear that the US defender made contact with her leg. I don’t know soccer rules well enough to understand the call. It also seemed clear that the contact was caused by White who had to bring her leg back at an odd angle because the pass was a bit behind her. Essentially she kicked our player who wasn’t directly behind her. When their legs made contact, White fell. I don’t think she did this on purpose but there’s nothing Suaerbrun could have done differently to avoid it. Reminded me of the three point shooter in basketball who kicks out their legs and draws a foul on a defender who is running to the side of them.

No, it has absolutely nothing in common with the basketball play you describe.

White had position and Sauerbrunn clipped her from behind as White prepared to kick the ball. That's a foul, and since it was in the penalty area, it's a penalty. Intent is irrelevant.

What could Sauerbrunn have done differently? Play better position defense in the first place and don't give the opponent a free charge at a ball in front of the goal.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

Yeah, no. She kicked her leg out sideways, that’s why Sauerbrun made contact with her. If her leg goes straight back that doesn’t happen. Thanks for the dismissive response though.

I never questioned intent, my question is about who created the contact. Her awkward kick seemed to do that which was caused by the pass that was slightly behind her.

 

[Plebe]

Yeah, no. She kicked her leg out sideways, that’s why Sauerbrun made contact with her. If her leg goes straight back that doesn’t happen. Thanks for the dismissive response though.

I never questioned intent, my question is about who created the contact. Her awkward kick seemed to do that which was caused by the pass that was slightly behind her.

You certainly implied intent when you drew the comparison to a basketball player kicking the legs out to seek contact and draw a foul.

At this point the best I can do is to humbly and gently suggest that people who are familiar with soccer would not share your interpretation of the play.

 

[Mdoggie]

When my daughter played in the ACC it was said "the only time it isn't a foul is when the ref doesn't call it" Same goes for basketball.

 

[meyers7]

At this point the best I can do is to humbly and gently suggest that people who are familiar with soccer would not share your interpretation of the play.

Exactly.