WNBA Off-Season

[Dillon77]

Well,

I don't have an opinion on Trammell, but seems like Greg Bibb is the bigger problem in Dallas. So many odd personnel decisions over the years

Greg Bibb is the major issue in Dallas, as far as I'm concerned, and has been for quite some time. AFter all, he hired all these people.
I did notice, as you probably did, that he's now CEO and President and has kicked himself out of the basketball operations aspect of the job, perhaps to save his skin or realize that he's not cut out for the personnel aspects of running a first-rate hoops program.

Bibb is in the process of hiring a GM, who will -- in turn, according to Bibb -- hire the next coach, so hopefully those two will be in lock-step for next moves. Got to think the first move is to core Satou Sabally; otherwise, just toss the 2025 season out the window.

With Howard (probably) moving on, there will some cash and there are draft choices coming in. Which ones who knows, but they'll have personnel options. The trouble with Bibb is he had this odd habit of stocking at one position, then seemingly not having patience to develop. The Connecticut Sun are probably throwing thank-you kisses still for trading Harris and cutting Burton, both of whom are in the Sun backcourt rotation.

The irony with Trammel was she came in with a defensive reputation and Dallas ended up playing toreador defense. That said, she'll probably get an assistant nod somewhere...gosh knows there's enough openings around the W now.

 

[azfan]

The WNBA players' union has opted out of its collective bargaining agreement, a historic move aimed at securing higher salaries for players amid a record-breaking year for women's basketball.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/21/nx-s1-5159991/wnba-players-association-opts-out-contract

This is unsurprising given the dynamics of the past season and the rapidly expanding interest in both women's game in general and the WNBA.

The league is still in very very early stages of growth and while the recent 2.2 billion dollar media deal is a step in the right direction the league and the union need work together and be very cognizant that there's a great deal of ground yet to cover for dramatic increases in salary, benefits or changes to working conditions can take place.

 

[azfan]

As to coaching turnover I can only hope and pray that will also come to Phoenix.

 

[cancontent]

Okay, the WNBA off-season is officially drunk and had an edible.

 

[bballnut90]

Okay, the WNBA off-season is officially drunk and had an edible.

Up to 6 vacancies now. Still wouldn't be shocked if we saw one of Sides or Quinn get canned.

As to coaching turnover I can only hope and pray that will also come to Phoenix.

I don't see it even though Phoenix was mediocre this year. Ishbia dropping over a million on a new coach only to can him after one season would be an interesting choice.


Hopefully with the league's influx of money we see some better coaches step up to the plate.

 

[JellyBean]

Okay, the WNBA off-season is officially drunk and had an edible.

Holy smokes! Washington really looking to change. Wow!

 

[cancontent]

Up to 6 vacancies now. Still wouldn't be shocked if we saw one of Sides or Quinn get canned.

I don't see it even though Phoenix was mediocre this year. Ishbia dropping over a million on a new coach only to can him after one season would be an interesting choice.


Hopefully with the league's influx of money we see some better coaches step up to the plate.

With the draft lottery and expansion draft around the corner, how are these teams able to make any decisions?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Is this like musical chairs? Is somebody going to get stuck with no viable candidates for their heading coaching job?

 

[cancontent]

Up to 6 vacancies now. Still wouldn't be shocked if we saw one of Sides or Quinn get canned.

I don't see it even though Phoenix was mediocre this year. Ishbia dropping over a million on a new coach only to can him after one season would be an interesting choice.


Hopefully with the league's influx of money we see some better coaches step up to the plate.

To this point in your reply, the Fever may be in play if this report is accurate. It seems odd that White would be talking with the Fever though. Didn't watch the new GM's press conference. Did she say anything to indicate Sides' job was being reviewed?

 

[12au]

I hope this means Mike Thibault ends up calling more NCAAW games for ESPN. He's a pretty good commentator

 

[bballnut90]

To this point in your reply, the Fever may be in play if this report is accurate. It seems odd that White would be talking with the Fever though. Didn't watch the new GM's press conference. Did she say anything to indicate Sides' job was being reviewed?

I'm surprised info leaked about White being in talks with the Fever. You'd think they'd keep it under wraps publicly while Sides is still the coach. White to the Fever makes too much sense though. She should command a hefty pay day based on Hammon/Tibbetts getting salaries north of $1m, and she's done a terrific job at Connecticut the past 2 years. Fever owners should have money to burn based on their exploding growth with Clark on the roster. Plus White is a former player and coach at the Fever and did a good job in her 2 years there. She's also a bonafide basketball legend in the state of Indiana.

 

[Dillon77]

Okay, the WNBA off-season is officially drunk and had an edible.

@JellyBean : "Holy smokes! Washington really looking to change. Wow!"

My initial thought to Washington owners: Be careful for what you wish for.

• You want a whole new slate? Well, is there a general manager that you think can come in and get you where you want to go that is better than Mike Thibault, particularly with the CBA changing next year.
• Yes and while the team's W-L record was certainly not stellar overall, it had to overcome the EDD situation, a ridiculous amount of injuries and a very youthful squad. Plus, once the team finally got it going this season after that dismal start, they were playing some very good basketball.
• Plus, player development was and always is a strength of the Thibault family.

Well, the owners have jumped....everyone wants it now since the tide is rising. Who, what and when is waiting to be seen.
Stay tuned.

 

[cancontent]

@JellyBean : "Holy smokes! Washington really looking to change. Wow!"

My initial thought to Washington owners: Be careful for what you wish for.

• You want a whole new slate? Well, is there a general manager that you think can come in and get you where you want to go that is better than Mike Thibault, particularly with the CBA changing next year.
• Yes and while the team's W-L record was certainly not stellar overall, it had to overcome the EDD situation, a ridiculous amount of injuries and a very youthful squad. Plus, once the team finally got it going this season after that dismal start, they were playing some very good basketball.
• Plus, player development was and always is a strength of the Thibault family.

Well, the owners have jumped....everyone wants it now since the tide is rising. Who, what and when is waiting to be seen.
Stay tuned.

This part. Who do these teams think will do a better job? My knowledge of the WNBA market from that perspective sucks, but my initial thought/feeling is that the pool isn't that large.

 

[azfan]

Up to 6 vacancies now. Still wouldn't be shocked if we saw one of Sides or Quinn get canned.

I don't see it even though Phoenix was mediocre this year. Ishbia dropping over a million on a new coach only to can him after one season would be an interesting choice.


Hopefully with the league's influx of money we see some better coaches step up to the plate.

I agree . . Unfortunately. This time next year I have my fingers crossed there will be changes both with the Mercury and the ASU Sun Devils.

It says something about the culture of an organization that the leaders are unwilling to acknowledge mistakes and move on quickly. Both Phoenix and ASU have deteriorated into extremely dysfunctional and incompetent women's basketball organizations.

 

[azfan]

@JellyBean : "Holy smokes! Washington really looking to change. Wow!"

My initial thought to Washington owners: Be careful for what you wish for.

• You want a whole new slate? Well, is there a general manager that you think can come in and get you where you want to go that is better than Mike Thibault, particularly with the CBA changing next year.
• Yes and while the team's W-L record was certainly not stellar overall, it had to overcome the EDD situation, a ridiculous amount of injuries and a very youthful squad. Plus, once the team finally got it going this season after that dismal start, they were playing some very good basketball.
• Plus, player development was and always is a strength of the Thibault family.

Well, the owners have jumped....everyone wants it now since the tide is rising. Who, what and when is waiting to be seen.
Stay tuned.

Wise advice. In Phoenix we still regret the decision to cut Sandy Brondello loose and ultimately to have the million dollar coach Nate instilling a culture of incompetence.

Definitely be very cautious about both your wishes and more importantly the actions based on those delusions.

 

[azfan]

Is this like musical chairs? Is somebody going to get stuck with no viable candidates for their heading coaching job?

There are lots of viable candidates. It's unfortunate however that the group think among ownership and GM fails to recognize a relatively long list of exceptionally competent coaches with established track records.

 

[cancontent]

There are lots of viable candidates. It's unfortunate however that the group think among ownership and GM fails to recognize a relatively long list of exceptionally competent coaches with established track records.

For the record, I said my knowledge in that area sucks. I'm willing to note my shortcomings.

 

[nwhoopfan]

There are lots of viable candidates. It's unfortunate however that the group think among ownership and GM fails to recognize a relatively long list of exceptionally competent coaches with established track records.

Do you have a list?

Successful college coach to the WNBA just isn't a thing that happens regularly. NBA assistant to WNBA head coach has had mixed results in recent years. Assistant coach w/ WNBA experience also gets mixed results. There's the always popular retread strategy of hiring a coach let go by somebody else. That's not just a WNBA thing, the NBA and NFL love this approach as well.

Golden State already rolled the dice with trying Nakase as a first time head coach. We'll see how it works.

I see Katie Smith's name get thrown around. Long time assistant...brief DISASTROUS stint as head coach w/ New York. If somebody wants to try again, more power to them.

 

[Bigboote]

Anyone want to give odds on how many coaches are paid more than the salary cap for players? It would certainly give the players’ union some ammunition if management pleads poverty during CBA negotiations next year.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Anyone want to give odds on how many coaches are paid more than the salary cap for players? It would certainly give the players’ union some ammunition if management pleads poverty during CBA negotiations next year.

OTOH, how many coaches can be as gainfully employed with other jobs and NIL in the Off-Season the way the players can? I think the coaches also have more Off-Season responsibilities to their Teams, and most are old enough to have spouses and families, and so can't just hop to Europe on a dime. So I think there are principled reasons the coaches are paid more than the players.

 

[azfan]

Do you have a list?

Successful college coach to the WNBA just isn't a thing that happens regularly. NBA assistant to WNBA head coach has had mixed results in recent years. Assistant coach w/ WNBA experience also gets mixed results. There's the always popular retread strategy of hiring a coach let go by somebody else. That's not just a WNBA thing, the NBA and NFL love this approach as well.

Golden State already rolled the dice with trying Nakase as a first time head coach. We'll see how it works.

I see Katie Smith's name get thrown around. Long time assistant...brief DISASTROUS stint as head coach w/ New York. If somebody wants to try again, more power to them.

While experienced college coaches are not the only source for WNBA coaches you would probably be safe than assuming the head coaches from South Carolina and UConn might be above average WNBA coaches. If I'm not mistaken Southern California's coach has experience at least at the NBA level.

Another source of excellent candidates might well be assistant coaches in the WNBA Kristi T.olliver comes to mind

So while I don't have a list to offer you I would offer that the pool going forward for WNBA coaches it's much wider than the existing set of head coaches or former head coaches in the W.

 

[azfan]

Anyone want to give odds on how many coaches are paid more than the salary cap for players? It would certainly give the players’ union some ammunition if management pleads poverty during CBA negotiations next year.

If your observation relates to the salary cap for a single player I would say all the head coaches are above that. If you're referring to the salary cap for the team none of them....yet

While there are consistently head scratchers along players who make it to WNBA rosters I would argue that the number of head scratchers in the coaching ranks is a multiple of that.

We of course would have to begin with the million dollar coach in Phoenix with zero experience coaching women's basketball although he did spend his youth observing his dad as a successful high school women's Coach in South Dakota. Perhaps that was about.

That said unlike the NBA the WNBA has a set of economics on the wage side of the business that historically have been head scratching. We may however be on the cusp of some change and I think this may be one of the motivations for the union opting out in 2025.

 

[nwhoopfan]

While experienced college coaches are not the only source for WNBA coaches you would probably be safe than assuming the head coaches from South Carolina and UConn might be above average WNBA coaches. If I'm not mistaken Southern California's coach has experience at least at the NBA level.

Another source of excellent candidates might well be assistant coaches in the WNBA Kristi T.olliver comes to mind

So while I don't have a list to offer you I would offer that the pool going forward for WNBA coaches it's much wider than the existing set of head coaches or former head coaches in the W.

Okay but let's be honest--the coaches from UConn and South Carolina are extremely unlikely to leave their current situation to take on the helm of a struggling (or brand new) WNBA franchise. I would guess most top coaches in wcbb aren't particularly itching for the opportunity to jump to the WNBA.

Opinions vary on Gottlieb, I'm not particularly sold on her coaching prowess.

Tolliver is an interesting possibility. However any time you give someone their first opportunity as a head coach, you are rolling the dice. No matter how good their resume or pedigree, you just never know what kind of head coach they'll be until they are a head coach.

Maybe I'm glass half empty here, but I just can't come up with many candidates who seem like slam dunk good options who would actually take a position in the WNBA. And most of the teams looking for a new coach are not good destinations currently, making it a tougher sell. Dallas has some nice pieces but churns through coaches. Atlanta has been struggling for years. Washington is in flux. LA has some nice young players but a lot of work to do. If you had a crystal ball and knew ahead of time who wins the lottery and therefore likely will have Bueckers next season, that would help make at least one of those jobs more appealing. But I suspect the franchises will be looking to make a hire before the lottery drawing, so...



Just for fun, try to come up with a list of the top half dozen or so coaches in WNBA history, if you can think of that many. How does that list compare to top coaches in wcbb history? It's just apples and oranges as far their reputation and legacy, the WNBA just hasn't been very presitgious for coaches thus far.

 

[DRR25]

Up to 6 vacancies now. Still wouldn't be shocked if we saw one of Sides or Quinn get canned.

I don't see it even though Phoenix was mediocre this year. Ishbia dropping over a million on a new coach only to can him after one season would be an interesting choice.


Hopefully with the league's influx of money we see some better coaches step up to the plate.

I actually would be surprised if Noe is out in Seattle. If Sides is out, I wouldn't be surprised given the new gm, Dunn moving into a new role, ETC.

 

[Bigboote]

If your observation relates to the salary cap for a single player I would say all the head coaches are above that. If you're referring to the salary cap for the team none of them....yet

While there are consistently head scratchers along players who make it to WNBA rosters I would argue that the number of head scratchers in the coaching ranks is a multiple of that.

We of course would have to begin with the million dollar coach in Phoenix with zero experience coaching women's basketball although he did spend his youth observing his dad as a successful high school women's Coach in South Dakota. Perhaps that was about.

That said unlike the NBA the WNBA has a set of economics on the wage side of the business that historically have been head scratching. We may however be on the cusp of some change and I think this may be one of the motivations for the union opting out in 2025.

I’m talking the team cap. The coaches absolutely deserve 250k, but as you’ve pointed out, they often don’t deserve a million plus.