WNBA 2023 Season, Part 2

[Dillon77]

I can't help it, gotta take a shot at Bill Laimbeer. He did only have 1 season w/ the core 4 together, but Hammon in her 2 years has brought out the best in Young, Plum and Gray, and I think you could say Wilson as well. 2 Titles. Not convinced Laimbeer ever would've gotten them over the top.

Point taken, but look at it from another (job) perspective: he also acquired most of these players.

So, while he didn't necessarily use them the right way (Plum and Young, in particular), he certainly saw the talent. So GM/Trader Bill did his job; Coach Bill, not so much.

 

[Dillon77]

Random thought for the night, but I could see Chelsea Gray being an All-star coach if she ever decides to go down that path. I could see her as the next Dawn Staley at the college level or the next Becky Hammon in the pros. She seems to have that 'it' factor with her basketball IQ and the ability to get her teammates to listen and buy in.

In (one of the) post-game interviews, that was brought up and Becky Hammon completely agreed, saying that Gray will suggest the same play in a timeout at the same time Hammon was ready to call it.

 

[cancontent]

Congrats, Coach Hammon and Las Vegas Aces!! 42-7 on the season. Back-to-Back Champs!! What a game!! I am proud of Cayla George. I told folks, Coach Hammon had a player on the bench who could give the team a little punch on the offensive end. Stokes doesn't shoot a lot for whatever reason, but Cayla does, and did she shoot!! Homegirl was not shy and that is all the Aces needed.

That was an exciting game. Hats off to New York. They had a great season. They are going to be a force again next season. Stewie had a rough night. Sloot had a great night. JJ struggled. I will have to watch the game again later but after game 3, I thought the Liberty had things figured out. I was wrong. Not sure what happened why JJ only got 8 touches, but I will rewatch the game later to see what the Aces did or was it just New York doing something else.

Congrats, Las Vegas!!!

Was wondering about this as well after seeing the box score. I know Vegas was throwing as many people against when possible. There were some times when players fronted her when it worked for Vegas. I recall one turnover where Young was able to intercept the pass in front of her. On that play, I think it was more of a poor pass, because it looked like a tight spot to force it into, even with a lob.

 

[Dillon77]

And hit her hard enough with the body to knock her right off her feet. There were actually 3 fouls, arm, head and body.

Yes. As a long-time basketball player and soccer coach, I would've gone to "full-gape" mode on the refs regarding that non-call on the run back up-court.

 

[cancontent]

Yes. As a long-time basketball player and soccer coach, I would've gone to "full-gape" mode on the refs regarding that non-call on the run back up-court.

I thought Hammon was going to apoplectic when it happened. Even without the replay it was obvious there was some contact.

The refs swallowed their whistles on a lot of contact in that game for both teams. It was a "let them play" kind of night.

 

[Dillon77]

She’s my fantasy successor to Dawn when she retires given that Dawn has said that she doesn’t plan on coaching deep into her 60’s. With WNBA players increasingly joining college coaching staffs in the off-season, I would love to see Dawn bring Gray to Columbia.

I would imagine @triaddukefan might have a few things to say if/when the Kara Lawson Experience moves on from her alma mater.

 

[Dillon77]

Wow what an unexpected and gritty win for the Aces. They had no business being in this game, let alone winning. Especially with Cayla George taking 35 shots in the first 3 quarters.

Wilson is an absolute force. She’s fast becoming one of the all time greats in the league. She willed the Aces to a win tonight. Can’t say enough about her. Great player, personality and representative for the league.


Clark was massive too, her interview at the end was gut wrenching and heartfelt. Young too played great, she deserves more credit than just that line but she was great these playoffs. Plum struggled shooting but was incredibly gritty and worked her butt off all night. I thought she played great even if she couldn’t get a bucket.

Parker and Gray also both now have 3 rings and have won at 2 different franchises as teammates despite neither playing in game 4 (and Parker missing most of the season). Not sure of any other teammates who’ve accomplished this.


Brutal loss for the Liberty, no other way to put it. First time I’ve ever seen a crack in Stewart’s armor in the clutch. Great season but a tough finish. Happy for Sloot to play well in game 4 after a tough start. I am curious what Ionescu’s future in the league looks like. She’s a great talent but has largely become a 3pt specialist as a scorer. I thought she’d be a future MVP (and she still could be) but her trajectory is slower than I thought it’d be.

Per Plum & Young: I saw some aspects of the "share lead guard" responsibilities that reminded me of what Jackie and Marina Mabrey did effectively during the ND NC run of 2018: Kelsey and Jackie were spelling each other and often found themselves excelling at some aspects of the game not expected. Young, for example, led the Aces in assists with 7 while Plum had 8 rebounds. Plum couldn't buy a hoop but she hustled for every second of the 40 minutes she played.
Wilson was red hot all 2nd half, but Young's step-through drive and subsequent three were huge, too. And her free-safetyish help D on the last play was energy- and instinct- superbly done.

BTW, for all that is made of Stewie's shooting woes, she never, ever stopped working on defense and the boards. She snared a team-high 14 rebounds and affected many a shot, including Wilson's attempt at the end of the game.

 

[cancontent]

Per Plum & Young: I saw some aspects of the "share lead guard" responsibilities that reminded me of what Jackie and Marina Mabrey did effectively during the ND NC run of 2018: Kelsey and Jackie were spelling each other and often found themselves excelling at some aspects of the game not expected. Young, for example, led the Aces in assists with 7 while Plum had 8 rebounds. Plum couldn't buy a hoop but she hustled for every second of the 40 minutes she played.
Wilson was red hot all 2nd half, but Young's step-through drive and subsequent three were huge, too. And her free-safetyish help D on the last play was energy- and instinct- superbly done.

BTW, for all that is made of Stewie's shooting woes, she never, ever stopped working on defense and the boards. She snared a team-high 14 rebounds and affected many a shot, including Wilson's attempt at the end of the game.

Definitely gave everything she had to help the team. The shooting woes this series was very surprising, but like I said in another post, she was contributing in other ways. I get with her stature in the league it's expected that she shoulders most of the workload, but she's human and will have moments when it doesn't work out.

 

[oldude]

For many years I have described Stewie as “Supergirl.” When championship time rolled around Stewie seemingly ducked into the nearest phone booth and emerged as Supergirl, elevating her game to the next level, while carrying her team to a championship.

This year Stewie looked fatigued. She played a lot of minutes throughout the season and playoffs. When someone “front rims” as many shots as Stewie did, throughout the playoffs, it is most definitely a sign of tired legs.

Hopefully she’ll get some much needed rest and be able to re-energize prior to next season. In addition, the Liberty need to develop a deeper bench. NY’s starting 5 played far too many minutes, with everyone showing signs of fatigue by the end of the series: missed shots, turnovers & defensive breakdowns.

 

[Dillon77]

For many years I have described Stewie as “Supergirl.” When championship time rolled around Stewie seemingly ducked into the nearest phone booth and emerged as Supergirl, elevating her game to the next level, while carrying her team to a championship.

This year Stewie looked fatigued. She played a lot of minutes throughout the season and playoffs. When someone “front rims” as many shots as Stewie did, throughout the playoffs, it is most definitely a sign of tired legs.

Hopefully she’ll get some much needed rest and be able to re-energize prior to next season. In addition, the Liberty need to develop a deeper bench. NY’s starting 5 played far too many minutes, with everyone showing signs of fatigue by the end of the series: missed shots, turnovers & defensive breakdowns.

It's interesting. For a team that had Parker long gone and Gray and Stokes out, the Aces played their only two subs about 16:30, or about the same time Sandy Brondello played Kayla Thornton and Marinne Johannes, combined. Stef Dolson, who has played in a few high-pressure games in her life, got in for 4 minutes. Thornton and Johannes both had many moments during the season. So, is it the players or the trust in/incorporation of the players on the bench? In either case, discussions need be had and next steps made, beginning with Jonquel Jones's free agency (I assume Stewie will be back in NYC.)

And, yes, Stewie and "Sloot look beat. Are they going back to Fenerbahce? Or taking a break this off-season?

 

[visitingcock]

It's interesting. For a team that had Parker long gone and Gray and Stokes out, the Aces played their only two subs about 16:30, or about the same time Sandy Brondello played Kayla Thornton and Marinne Johannes, combined. Stef Dolson, who has played in a few high-pressure games in her life, got in for 4 minutes. Thornton and Johannes both had many moments during the season. So, is it the players or the trust/incorporation of the players on the bench? In either case, discussions need be had and next steps made, beginning with Jonquel Jones.

And, yes, Stewie and "Sloot look beat. Are they going back to Fenerbahce? Or taking a break this off-season?

Yes, Stewie was not herself throughout the playoffs. Was she really beat or are we just looking for an excuse?

Wasn't she like Euro league MVP this past Spring? Are the two seasons just too much? Did the expanded WNBA schedule catch up with her this year? Age? Should she quit playing the extra season? Does she make enough from endorsements to give up EuroLeague income? Can New York help get her more endorsement opportunity?

 

[JellyBean]

Found a clip of it. I know calls get missed all the time. But somebody please try to explain to me how the refs let this one go. That's close to an assault.

Yeah. That was surprising that no call was made.

 

[cancontent]

Yes, Stewie was not herself throughout the playoffs. Was she really beat or are we just looking for an excuse?

Wasn't she like Euro league MVP this past Spring? Are the two seasons just too much? Did the expanded WNBA schedule catch up with her this year? Age? Should she quit playing the extra season? Does she make enough from endorsements to give up EuroLeague income? Can New York help get her more endorsement opportunity?

Isn't this why she and Collier are developing that elite 3x3 league? Don't recall what the timeframe for when it will officially launch.

The playing schedule of WNBA players has always been an issue. Remember when Taurasi was paid $1M to take a year off from the WNBA? And when you factor the World Cup last September along with the Eurocup season, that's a lot of basketball for any one person.

In contrast, I don't recall Wilson or Plum playing overseas the last few seasons. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.

 

[Waquoit]

Happy to see the Aces win. Too bad it wasn't a sweep.

 

[cancontent]

Happy to see the Aces win. Too bad it wasn't a sweep.

The additional drama with Game 4 made this series even more entertaining if you ask me. Shows how gritty the team is as a whole. We wouldn't have seen that with a sweep.

 

[Dillon77]

Isn't this why she and Collier are developing that elite 3x3 league? Don't recall what the timeframe for when it will officially launch.

The playing schedule of WNBA players has always been an issue. Remember when Taurasi was paid $1M to take a year off from the WNBA? And when you factor the World Cup last September along with the Eurocup season, that's a lot of basketball for any one person.

In contrast, I don't recall Wilson or Plum playing overseas the last few seasons. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.

Wilson played in China in the late teens; Plum spent some time in Turkey and Young (with Marina Mabrey) played for the Perth (Australia) Lynx a few years back. But I see nothing for any of them the last year or two. Plum, Young and Wilson were all going full throttle ... and for long stretches of time.

 

[JellyBean]

Yes, Stewie was not herself throughout the playoffs. Was she really beat or are we just looking for an excuse?

Wasn't she like Euro league MVP this past Spring? Are the two seasons just too much? Did the expanded WNBA schedule catch up with her this year? Age? Should she quit playing the extra season? Does she make enough from endorsements to give up EuroLeague income? Can New York help get her more endorsement opportunity?

I kind of think we are looking for an excuse. We all love Stewie but she is entitled to have a bad playoff series or bad playoff run. It happens. She will put this playoff run behind her and be ready for next year. Same with my girl Sabrina. They will all learn from this and bounce back. I won't be surprised if we have another New York/Las Vegas Finals next year.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I watched and it was a scrappy and fun game overall. I said "Stop Shooting" to Cayla George out loud a couple of times but I think it helped a little she wasn't afraid to pull the trigger. Plum and Stewie both struggled shooting but impacted the game in other ways. Stewie looked tired throughout.

Sloot played well but I think she too was running on fumes trying to keep up with Plum and Gray when she was off the ball. Aja did her thing as well and deserved MVP for the finals.

It was a good series overall and last night truly could have gone either way. I think Vegas had to win G4 as the bag of tricks was almost empty with the bodies on the bench who weren't able to play and G5 would have been a lot of pressure on the bench mob.

Good series for the league and good for the "super teams" who were the best all season.

 

[JellyBean]

I watched and it was a scrappy and fun game overall. I said "Stop Shooting" to Cayla George out loud a couple of times but I think it helped a little she wasn't afraid to pull the trigger. Plum and Stewie both struggled shooting but impacted the game in other ways. Stewie looked tired throughout.

Sloot played well but I think she too was running on fumes trying to keep up with Plum and Gray when she was off the ball. Aja did her thing as well and deserved MVP for the finals.

It was a good series overall and last night truly could have gone either way. I think Vegas had to win G4 as the bag of tricks was almost empty with the bodies on the bench who weren't able to play and G5 would have been a lot of pressure on the bench mob.

Good series for the league and good for the "super teams" who were the best all season.

LOL. I think there were millions of us that were yelling "Stop Shooting" or had that wide eyed look when Cayla shot the ball. But I was glad that she had that confidence to keep launching those shots. So many players get afraid to shoot the ball that it takes them out of the game. I am glad that she did not get caught up in that and just said "I am going to seize this moment" and she did. I think she finished with 10-12 points. Those were 10-12 additional points that made the difference.

I agree. It was a great series overall. I can't wait to see the ratings. With college football on, NBA games on, NHL games going, and the MLB playoffs, there was a lot to watch for us sports fans.

 

[JDuro]

I would imagine @triaddukefan might have a few things to say if/when the Kara Lawson Experience moves on from her alma mater.

Coaching the alma mater could be a draw, or she may wish to settle back home to California after she hangs up the sneaks, but I believe the enthusiastic fan base plus and an athletic department that’s shown a deep commitment to the WBB program, could be an attraction for Gray that I don’t believe Duke can match. Also, Chelsea and Dawn over the last few years seemed to have developed a pretty good bond.

One can Dream.

 

[JDuro]

In contrast, I don't recall Wilson or Plum playing overseas the last few seasons. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.

A’ja played in China after her rookie season. She took her dad with her for companionship. She came home early after suffering a knee injury. I believe she did not like the experience. I think it was in China where her dad also picked up a pretty bad bug that caused him to suffer a very bad illness that caused him lose a lot of weight that laid him up for quite awhile. A’ja hasn’t played overseas since.

 

[Oldschoolbb]

The weaknesses the Liberty exhibited during the season - terrible half-court offense, inability to keep the player they were guarding in front of them on defense, etc. - came out throughout the playoffs, but especially the finals. Couple that with some head-scratching use of the bench and the writing was on the wall.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

LOL. I think there were millions of us that were yelling "Stop Shooting" or had that wide eyed look when Cayla shot the ball. But I was glad that she had that confidence to keep launching those shots. So many players get afraid to shoot the ball that it takes them out of the game. I am glad that she did not get caught up in that and just said "I am going to seize this moment" and she did. I think she finished with 10-12 points. Those were 10-12 additional points that made the difference.

I agree. It was a great series overall. I can't wait to see the ratings. With college football on, NBA games on, NHL games going, and the MLB playoffs, there was a lot to watch for us sports fans.

I need for Cayla and Kiah to find a happy middle ground when it comes to shooting

 

[Waquoit]

The additional drama with Game 4 made this series even more entertaining if you ask me. Shows how gritty the team is as a whole. We wouldn't have seen that with a sweep.

Can a super team stuffed with superstars really be described as "gritty"? Especially losing at home while the other team has injury issues.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

I'm very happy for this Aces squad. The often criticized bench really showed up and gave it their all. Also a great moment for the 3 drafted franchise players to really show their growth as players and taking up the task of a playing a fully loaded Superteam.

At the end of the day I believe Vegas wanted it more. We saw some nerves from NY and they let Vegas back in the game and Vegas capitalized on it.

On a side note after about 10 games we finally got that competitive NY/LV game everybody has been asking about.

 

[ochoopsfan]

LOL. I think there were millions of us that were yelling "Stop Shooting" or had that wide eyed look when Cayla shot the ball. But I was glad that she had that confidence to keep launching those shots. So many players get afraid to shoot the ball that it takes them out of the game. I am glad that she did not get caught up in that and just said "I am going to seize this moment" and she did. I think she finished with 10-12 points. Those were 10-12 additional points that made the difference.

I agree. It was a great series overall. I can't wait to see the ratings. With college football on, NBA games on, NHL games going, and the MLB playoffs, there was a lot to watch for us sports fans.

I watched Cayla George all last season for Melbourne. She can shoot from everywhere on the court. She shot 42% from 3pt range 63 for 150(in 24 games) She shot 50%, 101 for 203 from 2 pt range.
Shooters should always shoot.

 

[triaddukefan]

She’s my fantasy successor to Dawn when she retires given that Dawn has said that she doesn’t plan on coaching deep into her 60’s. With WNBA players increasingly joining college coaching staffs in the off-season, I would love to see Dawn bring Gray to Columbia.

hey now

I would imagine @triaddukefan might have a few things to say if/when the Kara Lawson Experience moves on from her alma mater.

A few things to say, a few objects to toss, a few trips down to Columbia to object in person.

Coaching the alma mater could be a draw, or she may wish to settle back home to California after she hangs up the sneaks, but I believe the enthusiastic fan base plus and an athletic department that’s shown a deep commitment to the WBB program, could be an attraction for Gray that I don’t believe Duke can match. Also, Chelsea and Dawn over the last few years seemed to have developed a pretty good bond.

One can Dream.

Yall trying to rile me up before the weekend.

I have it on good authority that Gray isn't a fan of mustard bbq.

Hopefully Chelsea will be in attendance to see her alma mater de-feather some chickens the first sunday in December..... One can dream.

 

[GoChips20]

George wasn’t terribly efficient but I don’t think they win that game without her. Barring an unexpected career night, Aces weren’t getting 11 points out of Stokes and they needed every one of them to win the game. The defense was already top-shelf so probably wasn’t too much room for improvement on that end. I was happy for George, it’s mentally taxing to know you’re the player the opponent wants to leave open and still hit those shots. I thought the back-to-back triples she canned in Q3 sparked the Aces’ run to get back into the game.

Wilson was Wilson, I think she was handily the best player in the league through the second half of the season and the playoffs. If she ever evolves as a passer it’s over for the rest of the league. Plum didn’t shoot well but did everything else and just showed so much grit. Young was shut down the first 2.5 quarters but came alive down the stretch and had two or three “wow” plays and passes.

I don’t know that you can call the season a disappointment for New York given the Aces were returning a championship core. In all reality, if Stewie plays even an average game there’s a chance this series goes the other way. I’m not totally sold on Brondello but New York still had a great season and looked totally dominant in stretches. Just didn’t play their best basketball down the stretch and you always want it back when that happens.

I’ll be curious to see what both teams look like next year. Aces have room to bring a max player on (not sure who they’d need to cut out, though). It might depend on Gray’s health and whether she’ll be able to play. Before last night I would have thought they’d replace Colson and George but I can’t see that happening now. Both came up clutch. Clark has already tweeted her intentions to retire with Vegas and what an addition she was this year.

New York probably has more to lose (and possibly more to gain). Sounds like Johannes will miss next season overseas. They need to try and hang onto at least one of Dolson/Thornton if they can. Both were serviceable backups. But I’d let go of both if it means they can land Cloud or SDS. They desperately need a productive PG who can defend.

All in all, an excellent season from two stellar teams, and as fans we FINALLY got the barnburner we’d been waiting for since May.

 

[cancontent]

Can a super team stuffed with superstars really be described as "gritty"? Especially losing at home while the other team has injury issues.

Um yes, because I was referring to the Aces in response to another comment wishing the Finals was a sweep instead of 4 games.

 

[oldhusky]

Can a super team stuffed with superstars really be described as "gritty"? Especially losing at home while the other team has injury issues.

I believe cancontent was referring to the Aces being gritty not the Liberty, given the issues they were dealing with for game 4.