WNBA 2023 Season, Part 2 | Page 29 | The Boneyard

WNBA 2023 Season, Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
nwhoopfan said:
Dallas missed a lot of shots in that stretch, but at least 4 of them were Ogunbowale, including the last one. No Final 4 heroics for her today.
Expand ...
To be exact, Dallas missed their last 10 shots in a row and -- good point made in the AP story -- didn't get a second-chance opportunity on any of them. For a team that gets a lot of second-chance points, that's not helpful. So, cold shooting, no "o" rebounds and there's the set-up for a 15-10 Aces fourth quarter en route to a 3-pt. win.

As for the style of play, one could argue that Dallas went down shooting behind their two all stars, but Sabally -- normally a 40%+ shooter -- shot 13% (yikes!) from the floor and while we've seen worse from Arike _- 33% -- she took 24 shots. You can argue that a slight increase in percentage from Satou and Arike and this series is at 2-1. Or you can say they're ball hogs and not going anywhere in a hurry.
Truth is probably a bit in the middle:
- Big T played 33 minutes, had 15 rebounds but only took 5 shots, hitting 4. Really?
Howard did get 12 shots, hitting 5, but probably could've gotten a few more inside. Even by Arike's admission, the Wings do better with a bit more balance.
- I'd suggest the altering has to do with Coach Trammel tinkering with her point guard position seemingly every other game. Crystal Dangerfield was only on the floor for 4 and 2 minutes, respectively, the last two games. Odyssey Sims started last night ....and scored 2 points with no assists.
Valerie Burton reappeared and that wasn't be accident: Burton is the best PG defender on this team and was inserted to help slow down the Aces' guards. You can argue that she helped. .Burton did dish out 6 assists, but shot 1-6 from three. And when push comes to shove, is she going to direct Arike or Satou on what to do?

in my opinion, Dallas needs to decide on a point guard and needs to get another shooter when Arike or Satou aren't feeling it. In the past, they had Allisha Gray or Marina Mabrey. No longer. Can Lou fill that void next year, splitting time with Diamond DeShields? And will there be a PG available for Dallas?
 
Dillon77 said:
To be exact, Dallas missed their last 10 shots in a row and -- good point made in the AP story -- didn't get a second-chance opportunity on any of them. For a team that gets a lot of second-chance points, that's not helpful. So, cold shooting, no "o" rebounds and there's the set-up for a 15-10 Aces fourth quarter en route to a 3-pt. win.

As for the style of play, one could argue that Dallas went down shooting behind their two all stars, but Sabally -- normally a 40%+ shooter -- shot 13% (yikes!) from the floor and while we've seen worse from Arike _- 33% -- she took 24 shots. You can argue that a slight increase in percentage from Satou and Arike and this series is at 2-1. Or you can say they're ball hogs and not going anywhere in a hurry.
Truth is probably a bit in the middle:
- Big T played 33 minutes, had 15 rebounds but only took 5 shots, hitting 4. Really?
Howard did get 12 shots, hitting 5, but probably could've gotten a few more inside. Even by Arike's admission, the Wings do better with a bit more balance.
- I'd suggest the altering has to do with Coach Trammel tinkering with her point guard position seemingly every other game. Crystal Dangerfield was only on the floor for 4 and 2 minutes, respectively, the last two games. Odyssey Sims started last night ....and scored 2 points with no assists.
And suddenly Valerie Burton reappears. Now Burton is the best PG defender on this team and probably helped. She did dish out 6 assists, but shot 1-6 from three. And when push comes to shove, is she going to direct Arike or Satou on what to do?

in my opinion, Dallas needs to decide on a point guard and needs to get another shooter when Arike or Satou aren't feeling it. In the past, they had Allisha Gray or Marina Mabrey. No longer. Can Lou fill that void next year, splitting time with Diamond DeShields? And will there be a PG available for Dallas?
Expand ...
Unless they get a coach like Bill who would sit both of the ball hogs to prove a point, Dallas will always be an mid level team.
 
baggerbob said:
Unless they get a coach like Bill who would sit both of the ball hogs to prove a point, Dallas will always be an mid level team.
Expand ...
I get your points loud and clear, but:
  • This is the first time the Wings have made the semi-finals. That's top four, which isn't mid-level.
  • A lot of people, in part, give credit to Latricia Trammell, the first-year head coach for getting them to this point. This is largely a revised team. She's not going anywhere.
  • And next year figures to bring in players who missed due to injuries (DeShields, Senechal) and more draft choices. With those extra players. Trammel might have options to sit players who are having off nights.
  • BTW, Sabally is a free agent. Does she stay or go? Bibb seems to like offensive players so I think she stays.

I'm not saying your take is wrong (except coaches like Bill Laimbeer aren't coming back...), but GM Greg Bibb and Dallas ownership have put their money where their beliefs are, with the extension of Arike and the probable same thing with Sabally.
 
Dillon77 said:
- I'd suggest the altering has to do with Coach Trammel tinkering with her point guard position seemingly every other game.
Expand ...
Yeah, the way this series transpired left me thinking they have a PG issue going forward. Apparently they don't have much faith in Dangerfield.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Dallas missed a lot of shots in that stretch, but at least 4 of them were Ogunbowale, including the last one. No Final 4 heroics for her today.
Expand ...
Those missed shots were falling for 36 minutes or so and they were killing on the offensive glass. When Ogunbowale threw up at that attempt, I was thinking, if this shot falls, just might as well call her Big Shot Ogunbowale. She lives for those Big play moments.

Dallas is a going to be a playoff team each season. They just have to figure out how to get past the semi-finals and on to the Finals. They got the talent. Now they just have to find that balance.
 
JellyBean said:
I am sure they addressed that situation in the locker room after the game and Carrington apologized and they put that situation behind them, hopefully. But I do hope that after the game, Carrington went back to her home and did some self-reflecting. She is too good of a player to not be in the W but she has to realize that she ain't that LADY. She ain't the Alpha of the team. Gotta balance the ego for the betterment of the TEAM.
Expand ...
Two datapoints come to mind on Carrington. When Tara had an extra scholarship to bring back a senior at Stanford for a fifth year, she chose Anna Wilson over Carrington. Fast forward to the Elite 8 game between UConn and Baylor. Carrington tried to play “Hero Ball” only to make a number of bad decisions, including 2 critical charging calls drawn by Aubrey along with some questionable shots.

Carrington is undoubtedly a talented individual basketball player. I don’t know if she is a “team player” however.
 
.-.
baggerbob said:
Unless they get a coach like Bill who would sit both of the ball hogs to prove a point, Dallas will always be an mid level team.
Expand ...
Big differences in that situation.

1). Bill had some history in the game. Two Time Champ on NBA side and Three Time Champ as coach of the Shock. He could pull that move off without too much noise.

2). Coach Trammel, first year head coach, been coaching in the W for a while and won some titles as a coach in college. She doesn't have that type of leverage that Bill had to pull off a move like that. If she would have sat any of those players, especially in the playoffs, her WNBA head coaching career would have been over once the series wrapped up. Big name coaches can pull off a move like that. First year, mid level coaches, can't pull a move like that.
 
Chelsea Gray abused Crystal in multiple games. Gray is too big and strong for Crystal to guard her, especially in post-ups. However, late in the game when Dallas needed a bucket, Crystal may have been their best offensive option at PG.
 
nwhoopfan said:
Yeah, the way this series transpired left me thinking they have a PG issue going forward. Apparently they don't have much faith in Dangerfield.
Expand ...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dangerfield fairly steady as a PG for most of the season? How her minutes dropped that drastically was surprising.

From what I remember hearing from the announcers, the change in PG for the play-offs was due to size versus Vegas. While I get the logic, Sims wasn't the answer obviously.
 
oldude said:
Two datapoints come to mind on Carrington. When Tara had an extra scholarship to bring back a senior at Stanford for a fifth year, she chose Anna Wilson over Carrington.
Expand ...
The way I remember it, Wilson had already been given the scholarship before it was known whether Carrington intended to come back or not. If that is the case, it's really not a matter of Tara choosing Wilson over Carrington.
 
Yeah, Gray is gonna abuse any smaller guard that gets matched up on her. Dallas must not have liked the match up w/ Dangerfield and Plum either.
 
.-.
At the end of the day, I feel that the Sun is just a bit outgunned. But they play hard until the end and I think they can move forward from here. I had questions when Miller and Jones both bailed. But it seems to me the Sun is establishing a positive franchise identity. White has been such a good hire. I feel confident they can stay in the mix going forward.
 
Dillon77 said:
I get your points loud and clear, but:
  • This is the first time the Wings have made the semi-finals. That's top four, which isn't mid-level.
  • A lot of people, in part, give credit to Latricia Trammell, the first-year head coach for getting them to this point. This is largely a revised team. She's not going anywhere.
  • And next year figures to bring in players who missed due to injuries (DeShields, Senechal) and more draft choices. With those extra players. Trammel might have options to sit players who are having off nights.
  • BTW, Sabally is a free agent. Does she stay or go? Bibb seems to like offensive players so I think she stays.

I'm not saying your take is wrong (except coaches like Bill Laimbeer aren't coming back...), but GM Greg Bibb and Dallas ownership have put their money where their beliefs are, with the extension of Arike and the probable same thing with Sabally.
Expand ...
Also, while Dallas certainly should have won game 3, I don't think anyone was picking them to win the series. I think Dallas would have matched up a bit better with NY, but they seemed to make big strides this year on both O and D.
 
bbsamjj said:
Also, while Dallas certainly should have won game 3, I don't think anyone was picking them to win the series. I think Dallas would have matched up a bit better with NY, but they seemed to make big strides this year on both O and D.
Expand ...
Agreed. I didn't have them going beyond getting one game.
With DeShields and Senechal coming back -- along with two (I believe) first-round draft picks -- GM Greg Bibb and Trammel can add to the mix. Need to add some outside shooting off the bench and decide how they want to go at point guard.
 
Dillon77 said:
Agreed. I didn't have them going beyond getting one game.
With DeShields and Senechal coming back -- along with two (I believe) first-round draft picks -- GM Greg Bibb and Trammel can add to the mix. Need to add some outside shooting off the bench and decide how they want to go at point guard.
Expand ...

I think it depends on who they add from the draft. Because they sure like to pick the same type of players
 
cancontent said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dangerfield fairly steady as a PG for most of the season? How her minutes dropped that drastically was surprising.

From what I remember hearing from the announcers, the change in PG for the play-offs was due to size versus Vegas. While I get the logic, Sims wasn't the answer obviously.
Expand ...
@nwhoopfan @MilfordHusky

Yup. Sure looks like Coach Trammell didn't want Crystal to get overpowered by Gray, but didn't want to totally give up offense, so she went with Odyssey Sims. Then, the Sims option didn't work and went with Veronica Burton. So, if you can combine the best of all three of them....;)

Odyssey Sims seems to pop up as a veteran option in a few places (Minnesota, Dallas). We'll see if it lasts past this year. Or would Trammel want to combo Crystal and Veronica? Since this is Greg Bibb land, you can almost bet he''ll go for volume and draft a point guard to have even more options.
 
.-.
Waquoit said:
At the end of the day, I feel that the Sun is just a bit outgunned. But they play hard until the end and I think they can move forward from here. I had questions when Miller and Jones both bailed. But it seems to me the Sun is establishing a positive franchise identity. White has been such a good hire. I feel confident they can stay in the mix going forward.
Expand ...

Their lack of bench depth isn't helping either. Rebecca Allen being out Friday was a huge factor. They're running with 6-7 players currently right now aren't they?
 
I don't think match-up changes in this series by Dallas should mean much regarding what next year will look like. Dangerfield trying to guard Gray is a unique unusual scenario. Gray is pretty tall and strong and with her fade away can often score with a defender right in front of her, that is her own height, much less 6 inches shorter.

It was an impossible match-up for Crystal, but the good news for her is not many point guards can do what Gray does.. Dangerfield may be a marginal long term prospect to start at the point, but can probably carve out a long WNBA career as a reliable backup, and until they get a better option I suspect she could still be in the mix for next year,

Size in the back-court is also an issue for Dallas because of their shooting guard. Arike has point guard size but obviously is more of a shooting guard in style. Combing her with a smaller point guard means there will be some defensive match-up problems.

Look at Vegas for comparison. Plum is also more point guard size but shooting guard in style. But she pairs very well with Gray because Gray is big enough to guard the SG's and Plum can guard the PG's. They reverse positions on the defensive end and it works.
 
Courtney Vanderbilt has just been horrific this postseason. Having her and ionescu on the floor at the same time is such a liability for new york
 
Waquoit said:
The Sun is such an easy team to root for
Expand ...
Uh...easy to root against. Way too physical and probably the 2 biggest whiners in the game (although they haven't been as bad today; they were ludicrous in Game 3).
 
This game was ridiculously physical, but the refs let it happen, and New York did what they had to and responded by being very physical themselves. Not much scoring from the backcourt (although 14 combined assists), but Stewie/Jones/Laney were all huge today.

Thomas had a monster game. Carrington was really big off the bench. Whatever happened with her last game was apparently irrelevant.
 
.-.
What a great game. Yes, it was incredibly physical. But I love the fact that both teams were competing ferociously and it came down to the wire. Now we get to watch the matchup that everyone expected between the Liberty and the Aces.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,263
Messages
4,560,472
Members
10,452
Latest member
WashingtonH


Top Bottom