WNBA 2023 Season, Part 2 | Page 15 | The Boneyard

WNBA 2023 Season, Part 2

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Ciscokid said:
What a combo - Clark + Berger!
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Oddly, the Fever have given Wheeler some sort of incentive (I'm not sure what's allowed with the salary cap) to stay home this winter and not play overseas. She's good, but Berger is playing really well, and if they're looking at being able to draft Bueckers or Clark, this move makes no sense to me.
 
darrell said:
Boston would by far be the best Big for Caitlin to pair up with. Indiana could truly become something special (a la Vegas, who didn’t make the playoffs A’ja’s rookie year).
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Good point but then I think about Phoenix when they added BG. Sure, Phoenix won a title, but they never dominated the way a lot of people expected. If Indiana were to add Caitlin, it would be something special indeed. Just a matter what part of special angle we are talking about.
 
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NY is slowly reeling in LV. Might not catch them in the standings by the end of the regular season, but I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Liberty is currently the best team in the league. Something hasn't been quite right w/ Vegas for quite a while now.
 
Liberty playing their best ball right now. Even if they are not shooting well, they are doing the little things right and are closing out games strong. Good predictor of a Title team.
 
nwhoopfan said:
NY is slowly reeling in LV. Might not catch them in the standings by the end of the regular season, but I think it's pretty clear at this point that the Liberty is currently the best team in the league. Something hasn't been quite right w/ Vegas for quite a while now.
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They're tired and no Candace has been a big disadvantage. Kiah is a great player off the bench but isn't the starter that Vegas needs. Losing 2 major players in their depth chart plus this extended season, I'm not surprised. This is their 9th game in 17 days with basically a 6-7 player rotation. Their hope right now is they get rest before the playoffs.
 
The Aces, once looking like they would be repeat champions, are now looking very vulnerable. Lost two games in a row for the first time this season and heading into another battle against Washington and then wrapping up the season against Seattle and two games against Phoenix, which could go either way the way this season has been going with team play.
 
Speaking of the draft to come, i'm thinking Paige will get another year of college (either COVID or reshirt) to enter the same time with Azzzi
 
and Kim will loose more than she wins next year in the Transfer Thing, but I am pretty sure she have some solutions
 
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and YES, I'm rootinge for the Liberty, They are UMMC NY after all, just miss MEESSEEMANN
 
This was Vegas's 4th game on the road in the past 7 days. The Liberty are on a roll and their biggest crowd ever at the Barclays center. I remain VERY excited for a potential 5 game Finals between these two teams (though CT, DC, Dallas aren't going to exactly lie down).
 
GCKSFN4L said:
They're tired and no Candace has been a big disadvantage. Kiah is a great player off the bench but isn't the starter that Vegas needs. Losing 2 major players in their depth chart plus this extended season, I'm not surprised. This is their 9th game in 17 days with basically a 6-7 player rotation. Their hope right now is they get rest before the playoffs.
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Their 5th option is incredibly weak. You either have Stokes who offers nothing offensively and allows teams to double Wilson more easily, or Clark who is way too small to guard opposing 4s and has gone ice cold shooting the ball. Both are quality subs off the bench but neither one should be playing 25-30 minutes a night. Vegas basically needs their 4 starters to be shooting well every game or else they're vulnerable. Today both Gray/Plum struggled shooting which put them in a hole early that they never got out of.

Defensively they're also struggling. Today they had a lot of switching miscommunications that New York feasted on for wide open buckets. Teams are also exploiting Plum's size defensively and especially today NY scored at will on her.

Depth is non-existent, I'm not sure how Cayla George is in the league and Bell is inconsistent off the bench too. Overall the body language and demeanor just isn't great either. Both Plum/Wilson are quickly working up the ranks of players who complain the most to the refs. They've lost 5 of their last 11 after starting out 24-2. They can still right the ship and win the whole thing but they need to figure some stuff out sooner than later. NY is looking like a well oiled machine.
 
bballnut90 said:
Their 5th option is incredibly weak. You either have Stokes who offers nothing offensively and allows teams to double Wilson more easily, or Clark who is way too small to guard opposing 4s and has gone ice cold shooting the ball. Both are quality subs off the bench but neither one should be playing 25-30 minutes a night. Vegas basically needs their 4 starters to be shooting well every game or else they're vulnerable. Today both Gray/Plum struggled shooting which put them in a hole early that they never got out of.

Defensively they're also struggling. Today they had a lot of switching miscommunications that New York feasted on for wide open buckets. Teams are also exploiting Plum's size defensively and especially today NY scored at will on her.

Depth is non-existent, I'm not sure how Cayla George is in the league and Bell is inconsistent off the bench too. Overall the body language and demeanor just isn't great either. Both Plum/Wilson are quickly working up the ranks of players who complain the most to the refs. They've lost 5 of their last 11 after starting out 24-2. They can still right the ship and win the whole thing but they need to figure some stuff out sooner than later. NY is looking like a well oiled machine.
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As an Aces fan, this is what had me concerned all season even when things were going right: what if Vegas has hit its ceiling earlier in the season and NY discovers their own is higher. Not sure it would have played out this way if Parker had been healthy but fact is she isn’t and leaves the Aces shorthanded to manage any team with two effective frontcourt players (NY, DC, Dallas, Sun). When you look at the two rosters though, it’s clear as day: Liberty have a lot more talent and depth than the Aces have or had.

Unfortunately I don’t believe Parker will be back this year but at this point Aces have had to learn to play together without her and I’m not sure the result is great.
 
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bballnut90 said:
Their 5th option is incredibly weak. You either have Stokes who offers nothing offensively and allows teams to double Wilson more easily, or Clark who is way too small to guard opposing 4s and has gone ice cold shooting the ball. Both are quality subs off the bench but neither one should be playing 25-30 minutes a night. Vegas basically needs their 4 starters to be shooting well every game or else they're vulnerable. Today both Gray/Plum struggled shooting which put them in a hole early that they never got out of.

Defensively they're also struggling. Today they had a lot of switching miscommunications that New York feasted on for wide open buckets. Teams are also exploiting Plum's size defensively and especially today NY scored at will on her.

Depth is non-existent, I'm not sure how Cayla George is in the league and Bell is inconsistent off the bench too. Overall the body language and demeanor just isn't great either. Both Plum/Wilson are quickly working up the ranks of players who complain the most to the refs. They've lost 5 of their last 11 after starting out 24-2. They can still right the ship and win the whole thing but they need to figure some stuff out sooner than later. NY is looking like a well oiled machine.
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This comment is rhetorical as there's no way one would ever know, however I'm wondering if the move to get Parker will backfire on the Aces. Wasn't a fan of the Hamby move. Still don't understand why she was more expendable than other players. My only guess is that it was a financial decision. Having her right now instead of George would have stemmed the tide while Parker recovers from her surgery.
 
I believe the Aces traded Hamby so they had salary cap room for Parker. I don't think they had the option for having them both.

Yes, Hamby is younger than Parker, but they figured she would be out for most of the season on maternity leave (Which lead to a ton of controversy). And despite Parker's age, she's been relatively healthy since 2016 (Missing 25 games in 7 seasons). I think the depth issue is that they did no work to improve their bench (and they didn't expect Riquina Williams to be missing the full season, while eating her $150K Salary).

That being said, Jordin Canada, Kalani Brown and Tianna Hawkins makes just as much as Cayla George. Karlie Samuelson makes less. Crystal Dangerfield makes just a tad more.
 
cancontent said:
This comment is rhetorical as there's no way one would ever know, however I'm wondering if the move to get Parker will backfire on the Aces. Wasn't a fan of the Hamby move. Still don't understand why she was more expendable than other players. My only guess is that it was a financial decision. Having her right now instead of George would have stemmed the tide while Parker recovers from her surgery.
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I don't think the money was there to keep both and Aces have 2023/2024 to win before Young/Plum/Gray are all unrestricted free agents. Per Her Hoop Stats, Hamby's salary was going to be 169k this year while Parker signed at 100k and Clark at 110k. Knowing both Parker/Clark wanted to come to Vegas and were willing to take minimum pay, I think it was a no brainer to effectively trade Hamby + a small amount of cash for these 2. Parker was expected to be a massive upgrade over Hamby and her unselfish style of play projected her to be a perfect fit in Vegas, and Clark coming off the bench as a defensive stopper and shooter also seemed like a great fit. When Parker was healthy, Vegas went 16-2 and the team thrived despite Candace having much lower individual numbers. Since Parker's left, the team was able to keep their foot on the gas for a bit but they've really slowed down the last few weeks as the 5th starter spot has turned into a glaring weakness and the grind of the season is catching up with Vegas's stars. In hindsight, keeping Hamby was obviously the smarter choice but it's impossible to predict injuries (and worth noting, the Aces were keeping Parker at reduced minutes all season likely to reduce injury chances since she is injury prone).
 
bballnut90 said:
I don't think the money was there to keep both and Aces have 2023/2024 to win before Young/Plum/Gray are all unrestricted free agents. Per Her Hoop Stats, Hamby's salary was going to be 169k this year while Parker signed at 100k and Clark at 110k. Knowing both Parker/Clark wanted to come to Vegas and were willing to take minimum pay, I think it was a no brainer to effectively trade Hamby + a small amount of cash for these 2. Parker was expected to be a massive upgrade over Hamby and her unselfish style of play projected her to be a perfect fit in Vegas, and Clark coming off the bench as a defensive stopper and shooter also seemed like a great fit. When Parker was healthy, Vegas went 16-2 and the team thrived despite Candace having much lower individual numbers. Since Parker's left, the team was able to keep their foot on the gas for a bit but they've really slowed down the last few weeks as the 5th starter spot has turned into a glaring weakness and the grind of the season is catching up with Vegas's stars. In hindsight, keeping Hamby was obviously the smarter choice but it's impossible to predict injuries (and worth noting, the Aces were keeping Parker at reduced minutes all season likely to reduce injury chances since she is injury prone).
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Spending 210,000 on 2 players 37, and 36 years old was a bad gamble.
No matter how well you keep in shape, as you get older injuries take longer to heal.
 
bballnut90 said:
I don't think the money was there to keep both and Aces have 2023/2024 to win before Young/Plum/Gray are all unrestricted free agents. Per Her Hoop Stats, Hamby's salary was going to be 169k this year while Parker signed at 100k and Clark at 110k. Knowing both Parker/Clark wanted to come to Vegas and were willing to take minimum pay, I think it was a no brainer to effectively trade Hamby + a small amount of cash for these 2. Parker was expected to be a massive upgrade over Hamby and her unselfish style of play projected her to be a perfect fit in Vegas, and Clark coming off the bench as a defensive stopper and shooter also seemed like a great fit. When Parker was healthy, Vegas went 16-2 and the team thrived despite Candace having much lower individual numbers. Since Parker's left, the team was able to keep their foot on the gas for a bit but they've really slowed down the last few weeks as the 5th starter spot has turned into a glaring weakness and the grind of the season is catching up with Vegas's stars. In hindsight, keeping Hamby was obviously the smarter choice but it's impossible to predict injuries (and worth noting, the Aces were keeping Parker at reduced minutes all season likely to reduce injury chances since she is injury prone).
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I think in part, Hamby release was also due to her own history of injury. She seems to also be one to get injured either during the end of the season or the playoffs.

I do think Vegas tried to strengthen their bench and starting lineup with the trade but there was no way to anticipate losing both Parker and Williams. That's the equivalent of NY losing JJ and Marine or KT. It's a huge blow to come back from.
 
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cancontent said:
I'd say risky more than bad.
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Taking one player that age to be part of main rotation would be risky. Taking 2 was bad.
I did like your post because if they just took one of they with another player it would have been good.
 
baggerbob said:
Spending 210,000 on 2 players 37, and 36 years old was a bad gamble.
No matter how well you keep in shape, as you get older injuries take longer to heal.
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That's two high quality players for the price of one. That's cheaper than DT contract and she often misses a chunk of the season andon par with Bri Jones who unfortunately is out for the season. Unfortunately that's how it goes sometimes, you can't judge injuries. At least 2 bodies gives you more insurance than just one. AC is still a big part of this team.
 
baggerbob said:
Taking one player that age to be part of main rotation would be risky. Taking 2 was bad.
I did like your post because if they just took one of they with another player it would have been good.
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Only 1 has been injured (Parker)
 
We can debate all day long whether the Aces made a smart move landing Parker and Clark but the fact of the matter is Hamby was hurt a fair bit too and wasn’t expected to play this year. Based on social media commentary, I suspect part of the reason Hamby is back playing is to prove the Aces wrong (and she’s playing well, so more power to her).

At this point I think the title is the Liberty’s to lose (with a healthy Mystics team as a dark horse) but the Parker/Clark additions worked very well when healthy so the Aces’ vision was realized to some extent.

I do hope Parker returns for one more season if she isn’t able to finish out this one. We all want a better ending for one of the greatest to suit up.
 
GoChips20 said:
At this point I think the title is the Liberty’s to lose (with a healthy Mystics team as a dark horse) but the Parker/Clark additions worked very well when healthy so the Aces’ vision was realized to some extent.

I do hope Parker returns for one more season if she isn’t able to finish out this one. We all want a better ending for one of the greatest to suit up.
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Completely agree. The caveat is healthy. If so Washington plays such strong defense that they would be in every game in a series
 
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