OT: With Bill Belichick Some Things Are Constants

[Scud49]

But I'd still have flayed him for cheating. I'd still call him a butthole with the press. I'd still call him arrogant.

His "cheating" consisted of deciding to film after the league wide memo was sent out asking all teams to stop this practice. . Many others were doing it, BB decided to do it one more time. And you would love him for his style with the press - and again, he only stonewalls the press if they are after info on his team. Ask him something general football wise, he'll go on and on and on - I have seen that many times.

 

[meyers7]

His "cheating" consisted of deciding to film after the league wide memo was sent out asking all teams to stop this practice. . Many others were doing it, BB decided to do it one more time. And you would love him for his style with the press - and again, he only stonewalls the press if they are after info on his team. Ask him something general football wise, he'll go on and on and on - I have seen that many times.

IIRC, they filmed in the "wrong" place. Filming was still allowed, but the memo was a bit vague on the where. And yes, many other teams were filming also.

 

[JordyG]

His "cheating" consisted of deciding to film after the league wide memo was sent out asking all teams to stop this practice. . Many others were doing it, BB decided to do it one more time. And you would love him for his style with the press - and again, he only stonewalls the press if they are after info on his team. Ask him something general football wise, he'll go on and on and on - I have seen that many times.

Love him with the press? Haven't you seen the reaction to the Jets new coach and how people here said he looked insane? He hadn't even coached a day. Parcells was basically the same way with the press as Belichick, and he was called a jerk by fans and the media here so often it became a joke. At least he had a sense of humor. Clearly you don't know the history of how the media and fans here deal with coaches. As for how he explained his cheating, you just keep on believing his reasoning. Remember, it was an ex coach of his, Manzini, that ratted him out, and he said that and other things had been going on for a long time.

 

[Zanzman]

Mangini a bitter jets coach

 

[meyers7]

Love him with the press? Haven't you seen the reaction to the Jets new coach and how people here said he looked insane? He hadn't even coached a day. Parcells was basically the same way with the press and Belichick, and he was called a jerk by fans and the media here so often it became a joke. Clearly you don't know the history of how the media and fans here deal with coaches. As for how he explained his cheating, you just keep on believing his reasoning. Remember, it was an ex coach of his, Manzini, that ratted him out, and he said that and other things had been going on for a long time.

Keep on drinking.

 

[JordyG]

Keep on drinking.

I would expect nothing less from someone in love with a second rate footie squad. Talk about drinking from Jim Jones' cup. Who evidently has some really pond scum fans, some of the worst in football. I think now I understand why you identify with such tools. At least they're not the most racist, Man U has them beat easily. But they're up there per capita, aren't they?

 

[Husky25]

What's being debated here? I think it got lost in the woke.

 

[Scud49]

Love him with the press? Haven't you seen the reaction to the Jets new coach and how people here said he looked insane? He hadn't even coached a day. Parcells was basically the same way with the press as Belichick, and he was called a jerk by fans and the media here so often it became a joke. At least he had a sense of humor. Clearly you don't know the history of how the media and fans here deal with coaches. As for how he explained his cheating, you just keep on believing his reasoning. Remember, it was an ex coach of his, Manzini, that ratted him out, and he said that and other things had been going on for a long time.

1. Comments from 20 years ago about how he resigned? That's living in the deep past. Hypothetically speaking, if BB had of stayed with the Jets, and you had 5-6 SB wins by this time, whatever feelings/comments from those days would have been long forgotten, replaced by the glow of football supremacy and the Jets lofty place in today's NFL.

The video taping of signs had been going on for a long time - it was indeed a wide spread practice, and that's why the league sent out a memo to all teams indicating for the practice to stop.

 

[JordyG]

1. Comments from 20 years ago about how he resigned? That's living in the deep past. Hypothetically speaking, if BB had of stayed with the Jets, and you had 5-6 SB wins by this time, whatever feelings/comments from those days would have been long forgotten, replaced by the glow of football supremacy and the Jets lofty place in today's NFL.

The video taping of signs had been going on for a long time - it was indeed a wide spread practice, and that's why the league sent out a memo to all teams indicating for the practice to stop.

Again, Parcells did his share of winning with both the Giants and the Jets...and fans and the media still called him a jerk. Billy Martin as well. Tom Coughlin and Steinbrenner as well. Again, you are woefully unfamiliar with how NY fans talk about players and coaches. Now Casey Stengle is beloved, but not for all that winning with the Yankees, but for how he dealt with the Mets when they were losing 100 or more games. When they won in1969 the team became beloved.

 

[intlzncster]

Mmmm. Well. You know, I'm not a Giants fan. At all. Though I will admit they are one of the classiest orgs in the League.

Meh, Just a few years ago the Giants John Mara signed a confirmed wife abuser. The NFL even had had to protect his wife and kids from him at the Pro Bowl. Mara was aware of this. Let's leave aside their best ever franchise player was a coke addict and sleeping with under-aged prostitutes.

For the longest time The Hunts (KC Chiefs) have been considered the classiest owners. What'd they just do? Signed confirmed wife and child abuser to a long term extension. Because he's really good.

This is the NFL. If anyone's 'classy', it's because their skeleton's haven't been found.

 

[intlzncster]

2) Of Bill Parcells and all of the NY fans

Bill Parcells was one of the bigger arsholes in the NFL. And I loved the guy.

4) Everyone loves a winner, yet the Pats are the most hated football team in the country. Pittsburgh is tied for the most in Super Bowl wins yet they are more loved. Dallas has 5 yet they are (for some unknown reason to me) far more beloved. So, it certainly must be a relief to you Pats fans to know you're the most hated.

It only matters what happened recently.

Everybody used to hate the Cowboys. Now they don't care because they aren't that good.

Patriots win, so they become popular, nation-wide. Everyone hates on that. And they hate the constant winning.

Same reason people hate the Warriors et al. For years, everybody hated the Yankees.

This is sports.

 

[Husky25]

Meh, Just a few years ago the John Mara signed a confirmed wife abuser. The NFL even had had to protect his wife and kids from him at the Pro Bowl. Mara was aware of this. Let's leave aside their best ever franchise was a coke addict and a child abuser.

Yeah, he hasn't acknowledge that.

 

[Zanzman]

I would expect nothing less from someone in love with a second rate footie squad. Talk about drinking from Jim Jones' cup. Who evidently has some really pond scum fans, some of the worst in football. I think now I understand why you identify with such tools. At least they're not the most racist, Man U has them beat easily. But they're up there per capita, aren't they?

Footie squad sounds like Rex Ryan (former jet coach) trying to appease his fetish here

 

[JordyG]

Bill Parcells was one of the bigger arsholes in the NFL. And I loved the guy.



It only matters what happened recently.

Everybody used to hate the Cowboys. Now they don't care because they aren't that good.

Patriots win, so they become popular, nation-wide. Everyone hates on that. And they hate the constant winning.

Same reason people hate the Warriors et al. For years, everybody hated the Yankees.

This is sports.

Yet even when the Steelers and the 49ers were winning they weren't hated. The Yankees buy championships, but people hate them because of their whining, over expectant fans just as much as their ridiculous 27 titles. People as a rule in this country loved Dallas, win or lose, and loved them when they were winning titles. They are still referred to as America's team. I hate them because their fans are delusional. Seattle was never hated by fans. The Lakers during all their winning years with Magic and with Kobi were loved. The Bulls and Jordan were liked, not loved, but not hated. Yet fans love to hate the Pats. Now, some people hate the Warriors, but the majority of fans in this country love them. So I really think your conceit is wrong.

 

[JordyG]

Footie squad sounds like Rex Ryan (former jet coach) trying to appease his fetish here

Yeah, well the brunt of my post knows that in England the game is often referred to as "footie". But I'm well aware of how odd and silly it sounds to us in the colonies.

 

[Scud49]

People as a rule in this country loved Dallas, win or lose, and loved them when they were winning titles.

Wha, wha, wha what?????????? I lived in Denver during much of their winning run, and i can assure you, the Cowboys were despised in a HUGE way during that time. The hate was palpable, widespread, and incessant - virtually nobody out there was a Cowboy fan. They were roundly mocked as "America's team" by all, me included.

 

[intlzncster]

Yet even when the Steelers and the 49ers were winning they weren't hated. The Yankees buy championships, but people hate them because of their whining, over expectant fans just as much as their ridiculous 27 titles. People as a rule in this country loved Dallas, win or lose, and loved them when they were winning titles. They are still referred to as America's team. I hate them because their fans are delusional. Seattle was never hated by fans. The Lakers during all their winning years with Magic and with Kobi were loved. The Bulls and Jordan were liked, not loved, but not hated. Yet fans love to hate the Pats. Now, some people hate the Warriors, but the majority of fans in this country love them. So I really think your conceit is wrong.

First of all, it's not a universal rule (there are none). It's just far more likely.

Secondly, America and sports have changed socio-culturally from way back in the day. The level of focus on sports/culture (and negativity) was not in play. Winners were lauded and revered. Which is why guys like Lombardi and Wooden were heroes. It was a far simpler time. Things started to change in the late 80s I'd say. We now live in a very envious, jealous culture.

Winning too much causes a team to be front and center all the time. Too much media. Everybody always says "I so SICK of the 'fill in the blank'. Wish they would just lose already." They find reasons to hate the team. It doesn't matter what that reason is.

I'm not sure where your social cultural measurements are coming from, but from the internet and irl, you're off about a lot of those.

Yankees: it doesn't matter why people hate them. It's that they hate them. If they didn't win, nobody would care.
Dallas: Maybe you live in Dallas? Everywhere else they were disliked. Too many bandwagoners. Only Dallas fans and people who like to quote stuff from 30 years ago call them "America's team" anymore. People think their owner is a loser, their culture kinda toxic, and their fans annoying. If they weren't winning at the time nobody would care.
Lakers: Kobi was one of the most universally hated basketball stars. And nobody liked those Lakers except when Shaq was on them because Shaq is in his own universe.
Warriors: then you know entirely different (smallish) set of people. Most NBA fans are rooting for the Warriors to lose, because they "killed the NBA". Quick sample of the mens board it's probably about a 98% hate to love ratio. If they weren't winning nobody would care.
Seattle?: We talking Seahawks? They didn't win enough. But nobody liked their fans. The 12th man BS.
Alabama: College football fans love to hate Alabama. They win too much.
Duke: Most hated team in MCBB. They won too much.

Patriots are hated because of too much winning and the annoying fans that go along with that. People loved the Patriots at the start of the dynasty. They were new and fresh.

After awhile, they are just front and center too often. Their fans become annoying. Their head coach is a grouch. Their quarterback has everything: money, fame, rings, supermodel wife, perfect everything.

Ultimately, people are jealous. We love to hate nowadays.

I'll ask you again, if they weren't winning so much, would anyone care?

No. They wouldn't.

 

[JordyG]

Wha, wha, wha what?????????? I loved in Denver during much of their winning run, and i can assure you, the Cowboys were despised in a HUGE way during that time. The hate was palpable, widespread, and incessant - virtually nobody out there was a Cowboy fan. They were roundly mocked as "America's team" by all, me included.

Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe I over sold the Dallas likability thing a bit. They are still more liked than the Pats.

 

[MainefanSC]

Wha, wha, wha what?????????? I loved in Denver during much of their winning run, and i can assure you, the Cowboys were despised in a HUGE way during that time. The hate was palpable, widespread, and incessant - virtually nobody out there was a Cowboy fan. They were roundly mocked as "America's team" by all, me included.

Yeah, you got it right! Cowboys did rot and I still root for whomever they play. I did have great respect for Landry and feel he got a raw deal, upon departure. I did like Staubach, being a Navy vet. Beyond respect for those 2, I couldn't stomach the rest of the team.

 

[JordyG]

First of all, it's not a universal rule (there are none). It's just far more likely.

Secondly, America and sports have changed socio-culturally from way back in the day. The level of focus on sports/culture (and negativity) was not in play. Winners were lauded and revered. Which is why guys like Lombardi and Wooden were heroes. It was a far simpler time. Things started to change in the late 80s I'd say. We now live in a very envious, jealous culture.

Winning too much causes a team to be front and center all the time. Too much media. Everybody always says "I so SICK of the 'fill in the blank'. Wish they would just lose already." They find reasons to hate the team. It doesn't matter what that reason is.

I'm not sure where your social cultural measurements are coming from, but from the internet and irl, you're off about a lot of those.

Yankees: it doesn't matter why people hate them. It's that they hate them. If they didn't win, nobody would care.
Dallas: Maybe you live in Dallas? Everywhere else they were disliked. Too many bandwagoners. Only Dallas fans and people who like to quote stuff from 30 years ago call them "America's team" anymore. People think their owner is a loser, their culture kinda toxic, and their fans annoying. If they weren't winning at the time nobody would care.
Lakers: Kobi was one of the most universally hated basketball stars. And nobody liked those Lakers except when Shaq was on them because Shaq is in his own universe.
Warriors: then you know entirely different (smallish) set of people. Most NBA fans are rooting for the Warriors to lose, because they "killed the NBA". Quick sample of the mens board it's probably about a 98% hate to love ratio. If they weren't winning nobody would care.
Seattle?: We talking Seahawks? They didn't win enough. But nobody liked their fans. The 12th man BS.
Alabama: College football fans love to hate Alabama. They win too much.

Patriots are hated because of too much winning and the annoying fans that go along with that. People loved the Patriots at the start of the dynasty. They were new and fresh.

After awhile, they are just front and center too often. Their fans become annoying. Their head coach is a grouch. Their quarterback has everything: money, fame, rings, supermodel wife, perfect everything.

Ultimately, people are jealous.

I'll ask you again, if they weren't winning so much, would anyone care?

No. They wouldn't.

I disagree. You know, they took a poll last year and of course, the Pats were most hated. Do you know who was top 5? The Jets. A mediocre, irrelevant team that won a single Super Bowl back in 1969. Hated more than the Giants. So obviously, people care.

Yeah, Kobi was hated, and the people hated his team after Shaq. But not with Shaq, and people loved the Magic teams. Now they're liked, not hated.

People rooted against the Warriors, but they never hated them. In fact, their players were loved, and they still are.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe I over sold the Dallas likability thing a bit. They are still more liked than the Pats.

Well if it makes you feel any better..... I hate the Cowboys more than.the Pats, though I strongly dislike the Pats.... and the Jets, throw in the Eagles and the Redskins. I used to dislike the Giants... though that has changed in the past few months and I will be buying some Giant merchandise in the next few days.

 

[intlzncster]

I disagree. You know, they took a poll last year and of course, the Pats were most hated. Do you know who was top 5? The Jets. A mediocre, irrelevant team that won a single Super Bowl back in 1969. Hated more than the Giants. So obviously, people care.

Yeah, Kobi was hated, and the people hated his team after Shaq. But not with Shaq, and people loved the Magic teams. Now they're liked, not hated.

People rooted against the Warriors, but they never hated them. In fact, their players were loved, and they still are.

I didn't say it's the only reason teams are hated and liked, just the most powerful one.

• Jets: the reason they were voted there is because Pats and Giants fans happen to be two of the most engaged fanbases on the internet. And they both hate the Jets. I'm willing to bet that poll was 60% Pats fans].
• Warriors: who are you talking to? Draymond Green is one of the most hated players in the league. Durant is universally mocked as soft. Curry is considered an obnoxious prima donna. Nobody likes Boogie Cousins. Klay is universally loved because Klay is cool.

Again, if the Pats weren't winning so much, they wouldn't be hated. Nobody would care. Most fans I talk to say, "I don't hate the Pats players. Just the team. The fans. The head coach." And yes some say the QB. But it's usually because he's ripped their hearts out.

But you've also gotta take the Patriots in context. Modern day NFL is America's most popular sport, with the most passionate fans. It's built to be a meritocracy, where 'Dynasty's' are short lived.

What the Patriots have done in today's day and age is patently absurd. It's just too much over too long a period for anyone not their fans. So people hate them for all sorts of reasons. They just got lucky with two of (if not THE) best to ever do it as QB/HC.

But THIS is the main reason. It's simply not fair.

 

[JordyG]

Well if it makes you feel any better..... I hate the Cowboys more than.the Pats, though I strongly dislike the Pats.... and the Jets, throw in the Eagles and the Redskins. I used to dislike the Giants... though that has changed in the past few months and I will be buying some Giant merchandise in the next few days.

Yes I feel much better. You seem to have a thing against the Eastern Conference, Eastern Division teams. Although how anyone could hate the Jets, a team where the phrase under performed would be a complement, puzzles me. But it seems you're not alone. Perhaps people despise substandard play. Yet, the Browns aren't hated as much. A puzzlement for sure.

 

[JordyG]

I didn't say it's the only reason teams are hated and liked, just the most powerful one.

• Jets: the reason they were voted that is because Pats and Giants fans happen to be two of the most engaged fanbases on the internet. And they hate the Jets. I'm willing to bet that poll was 60% Pats fans].
• Warriors: who are you talking to? Most people in the NBA dislike Draymond Green. Durant is universally mocked as soft. Curry is considered an obnoxious prima donna. Nobody likes Boogie Cousins. Klay is universally loved because Klay is cool.

Again, if the Pats weren't winning so much, they wouldn't be hated. Nobody would care. Most fans I talk to say, "I don't hate the Pats players. Just the team. The fans. The head coach." And yes some say the QB. But it's usually because he's ripped their hearts out.

But you've also gotta take the Patriots in context. Modern day NFL is America's most popular sport, with the most passionate fans. It's built to be a meritocracy, where 'Dynasty's' are short lived.

What the Patriots have done in today's day and age is patently absurd. It's just too much over too long a period for anyone not their fans. So people hate them for all sorts of reasons. They just got lucky with two of (if not THE) best to ever do it as QB/HC.

But THIS is the main reason:

View attachment 46640

Pats fans hate the Jets? That's like hating that single ant you stepped on while you're walking to work. That's just silly. Now, if you said Pats fans hated the Giants, I got you. Yet, if the Pats and Giants are such "engaged" teams, on the internet, why aren't they the most liked in the country. Silly.

 

[intlzncster]

Pats fans hate the Jets? That's like hating that single ant you stepped on while you're walking to work. That's just silly. Now, if you said Pats fans hated the Giants, I got you. Yet, if the Pats and Giants are such "engaged" teams, on the internet, why aren't they the most liked in the country. Silly.

Dude, we don't like the Jets. And their fans. Even though we beat all over them. It's been a long term thing. It comes from being a divisions rival, having both our head coaches going from one to the other (Parcells/BB). They take all the players we cut. You just build up animosity over time.

Pats don't play the Giants enough. Hard to build up that hate if you don't. Although there are plenty still bitter about two Superbowls.

The Jets thing has waned a bit in recent years, due to their ineptitude, but the fans would ding the hell out of a poll like the one you mentioned, just for yuks. We still take great pleasure in their every failing*. But if they start winning, look out.

The Yanks and Red Sox hated each other, even when the Sox hadn't won crap for 85 years. Sox were the ugly step brother. It's simply a NY Boston thing.

*Ironically, the Jets are responsible for our greatest triumph. Mo Lewis knocking out Drew Bledsoe to usher in the Tom Brady era (early) was a coup for us.