OT: - With Bill Belichick Some Things Are Constants | Page 4 | The Boneyard

OT: With Bill Belichick Some Things Are Constants

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But I'd still have flayed him for cheating. I'd still call him a butthole with the press. I'd still call him arrogant. You seem to forget, we NY fans are brutally honest (except for Yankee fans) about coaches and players, and the press is fearless. Pat fans and the media have rose colored glasses about this guy, we NY-ers would not. In fact, Pats fans have far more in common with Yankee fans than they do with any other type of sports fan in the country. Dallas fans are delusional, and they don't count.
Looks like I've got a trifecta! Bigtime Yankees, Cowboys and Patriots fan, and proud of it. The 5 teams I have set for notifications on ESPN.com:

UConn WBB (lived in CT for 20 years during the rise of Geno, 1st NC, through the DT years)
Oklahoma Football (alma mater)
Cowboys (born & raised in Oklahoma - closest NFL team)
Patriots (started following when Chuck Fairbanks left Oklahoma to coach the Pats, then lived in New England for 20 years)
Yankees (first MLB game @ 9 years old got to see Oklahoma hero Mickey Mantle play, plus saw Maris hit 2 of his 61)

I don't hate back much though. (Exceptions: I hate Texas and Tennessee)
 

JordyG

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Looks like I've got a trifecta! Bigtime Yankees, Cowboys and Patriots fan, and proud of it. The 5 teams I have set for notifications on ESPN.com:

UConn WBB (lived in CT for 20 years during the rise of Geno, 1st NC, through the DT years)
Oklahoma Football (alma mater)
Cowboys (born & raised in Oklahoma - closest NFL team)
Patriots (started following when Chuck Fairbanks left Oklahoma to coach the Pats, then lived in New England for 20 years)
Yankees (first MLB game @ 9 years old got to see Oklahoma hero Mickey Mantle play, plus saw Maris hit 2 of his 61)

I don't hate back much though. (Exceptions: I hate Texas and Tennessee)
Lucky you. Waiter, check!
 

meyers7

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I would expect nothing less from someone in love with a second rate footie squad. Talk about drinking from Jim Jones' cup. Who evidently has some really pond scum fans, some of the worst in football. I think now I understand why you identify with such tools. At least they're not the most racist, Man U has them beat easily. But they're up there per capita, aren't they?
That 2nd rate squad that's never been relegated? That 2nd rate squad with the most FA titles? That 2nd rate squad with the 3rd most League Championship titles? The only EPL club ever to go a season undefeated? That 2nd rate club??? Yea, there's reasons to love them.

As for racist? Nah, their fan base is pretty diverse. Probably should actually look into that before spouting off a bunch of bull. ;)
 

eebmg

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1569503651367.png
 

JordyG

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That 2nd rate squad that's never been relegated? That 2nd rate squad with the most FA titles? That 2nd rate squad with the 3rd most League Championship titles? The only EPL club ever to go a season undefeated? That 2nd rate club??? Yea, there's reasons to love them.

As for racist? Nah, their fan base is pretty diverse. Probably should actually look into that before spouting off a bunch of bull. ;)
1569509750561.png


At least I own it.
 

Sifaka

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I've already consumed more popcorn reading this thread than an average bear eats in, errrm.... a month of Sundays. I'm sure Howard Cosell and Frank and Dandy Dan
would have had fun doing the play-by-play.

I have no passion for or against the Pats, though I live in Maine, and thus am surrounded by rabid, often obnoxious fans who curiously refer to our southern neighbors as "Massholes" when discussing anything other than sports.

I am left with a question. It is one that most any red-blooded UConn WBB fan should be happy to tackle with vigor and vim and strong language.

What do we call a very talented, successful, skilled basketball player who has no need to play dirty, yet does so?
(Psst! Initials are A. O.)

Following along those lines, what do we call a very talented, skilled and successful NFL coach who has no need to skate outside the lines of propriety, yet does so?

How can some of us have deep—and I would argue, appropriate—disdain for the former, while letting the latter off with a wink and a nod? Expiring minds want to know.
 

intlzncster

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I've already consumed more popcorn reading this thread than an average bear eats in, errrm.... a month of Sundays. I'm sure Howard Cosell and Frank and Dandy Dan
would have had fun doing the play-by-play.

I have no passion for or against the Pats, though I live in Maine, and thus am surrounded by rabid, often obnoxious fans who curiously refer to our southern neighbors as "Massholes" when discussing anything other than sports.

I am left with a question. It is one that most any red-blooded UConn WBB fan should be happy to tackle with vigor and vim and strong language.

What do we call a very talented, successful, skilled basketball player who has no need to play dirty, yet does so?
(Psst! Initials are A. O.)

Following along those lines, what do we call a very talented, skilled and successful NFL coach who has no need to skate outside the lines of propriety, yet does so?

How can some of us have deep—and I would argue, appropriate—disdain for the former, while letting the latter off with a wink and a nod? Expiring minds want to know.

Totally different games, but I'll play.
  • Because he's not trying to physically hurt anybody.
  • The NFL rules are constructed in such a way, that you try to push the limits of what's possible.
  • Half of the game itself is trying to trick the other team by whatever means necessary.
  • If you know the rules better, you can manipulate them better.
  • What Belichick does in general pretty light weight compared to much of what goes on in the league, from owners on down. Especially outside the game.
 

JordyG

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I've already consumed more popcorn reading this thread than an average bear eats in, errrm.... a month of Sundays. I'm sure Howard Cosell and Frank and Dandy Dan
would have had fun doing the play-by-play.

I have no passion for or against the Pats, though I live in Maine, and thus am surrounded by rabid, often obnoxious fans who curiously refer to our southern neighbors as "Massholes" when discussing anything other than sports.

I am left with a question. It is one that most any red-blooded UConn WBB fan should be happy to tackle with vigor and vim and strong language.

What do we call a very talented, successful, skilled basketball player who has no need to play dirty, yet does so?
(Psst! Initials are A. O.)

Following along those lines, what do we call a very talented, skilled and successful NFL coach who has no need to skate outside the lines of propriety, yet does so?

How can some of us have deep—and I would argue, appropriate—disdain for the former, while letting the latter off with a wink and a nod? Expiring minds want to know.
In these two cases I respect both as performers on the field. I despise Belichick as a person, and I believe to this day he still cheats. I also believe most coaches in the NFL cheat; I believe that most if not all NFL coach skate outside the lines. What defines Belichick is that he does it better than everyone else. He does everything better than everyone else. Everyone is playing "go fish" while he is playing "Go". What do you call him? The Sun-Tzu of football. Despicable and ruthless, but a master.

A.O. on the other hand made some mistakes. She was a child. Given the opportunity odds are she would have done some things differently. I just don't see a pattern of behavior in the things she did. Now Mabrey was a different story. But that's for another time. A.O. did some despicable acts, but I don't see her as a terrible person. I also see her game somewhat immature. Given the opportunity however I believe she will become a great offensive player, not just a scorer and a ball hog. What would I call her? Womanchild.
 

Rocket009

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Love him with the press? Haven't you seen the reaction to the Jets new coach and how people here said he looked insane? He hadn't even coached a day. Parcells was basically the same way with the press as Belichick, and he was called a jerk by fans and the media here so often it became a joke. At least he had a sense of humor. Clearly you don't know the history of how the media and fans here deal with coaches. As for how he explained his cheating, you just keep on believing his reasoning. Remember, it was an ex coach of his, Manzini, that ratted him out, and he said that and other things had been going on for a long time.

I think you forget that Mangini was caught video taping the Patriots first and his camera man removed from the stadium. Mangini attempted the same in retaliation, but got the NFL involved. Lots of teams had been taping for a long time before this all blew up.

Here's an article that discusses the whole spygate issue in more detail. It's not nearly as cut and dried as you like to make out. The Truth About Spygate: Punishing Success and Promoting Parity
 

intlzncster

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I think you forget that Mangini was caught video taping the Patriots first and his camera man removed from the stadium. Mangini attempted the same in retaliation, but got the NFL involved. Lots of teams had been taping for a long time before this all blew up.
Here's an article that discusses the whole spygate issue in more detail. It's not nearly as cut and dried as you like to make out. The Truth About Spygate: Punishing Success and Promoting Parity

And the only reason they blew it up is because the Pats were winning. If another team got 'caught' then, it wouldn't have even registered.

Investigations are pushed by opposing owners, a notoriously jealous and petty bunch.
 

JordyG

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And the only reason they blew it up is because the Pats were winning. If another team got 'caught' then, it wouldn't have even registered.

Investigations are pushed by opposing owners, a notoriously jealous and petty bunch.
Say as you like. Dungy and others had been complaining about the Pats long before Mangini. A thorough article that blames it all on the leagues push to punish success, move toward more parity, and cast aspersions on Dungy, Schottenheimer and Edwards and their practices, with a little hint at a Jet bias by the commissioner. Without proof I might add.
 
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And the only reason they blew it up is because the Pats were winning. If another team got 'caught' then, it wouldn't have even registered.

Investigations are pushed by opposing owners, a notoriously jealous and petty bunch.

100% spot on - and 100% true. Much ado about absolutely nothing.

If other NFL owners feel they can weaken the Patriots in any way, they will take that path in a heartbeat.
 

intlzncster

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Say as you like. Dungy and others had been complaining about the Pats long before Mangini.

Dungy and those guys were getting their asses handed to them. He's always been a hypocrite anyway (don't get me started). Football guys like Bill Cowher (one of those who could have complained having directly lost to the Pats) have always thought it nonsense:

“We didn’t lose the game because of any Spygate, because of them having any additional things,” Cowher said. “I think if they’re guilty of anything, they’re guilty of arrogance, because they were told not to do something. But it was something that everybody does. The only thing they got caught [was] doing it with a camera. We had people that always tried to steal signals. Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game, and everybody attempted to do that.
“Part of the things we had [were] wristbands that we were using to do it. It’s not even an element anymore because of the communications that take place on the field to the quarterback, to the linebacker. So it’s an element of the game that doesn’t exist, and really, what happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us, and it has nothing to do with stealing signals, or cheating, or anything else. They were a better football team on that day.”

A thorough article that blames it all on the leagues push to punish success, move toward more parity, and cast aspersions on Dungy, Schottenheimer and Edwards and their practices, with a little hint at a Jet bias by the commissioner. Without proof I might add.

There's plenty of articles that pertain to the same stuff. But one thing I do know is that people LOVE to write hit pieces about the Pats. Why? Because they get clicks. People have made careers by doing this.

For another example of the hypocrisy of owners driving this stuff, take John Mara again (when they skated on the walkie talkie scandal):

Source The Giants unwittingly, and ironically, have done plenty in the past two Sundays to exonerate the Patriots for #DeflateGate. Yes, Giants co-owner John Mara is believed to have lobbied (along with others) for unreasonably stiff punishment of the Patriots. … [T]he Giants forced the NFL into a clumsy, awkward spot by complaining about Pittsburgh footballs under circumstances that could have been easily explained by natural deflation on a cold day. The NFL couldn’t say that without indirectly clearing the Patriots, so the NFL initially circled the wagons — and then eventually veered off script with a comment that later had to be described as the product of a misstatement.
As to the walkie-talkie scandal, the looming decision to give the Giants a relative slap on the wrist for a blatant and brazen violation of a known rule shows how bizarre it was to hammer the Patriots for a rule that was, essentially, the exact opposite.

You'll notice how it's openly stated that the owners drive these things? That's a well known secret. Spygate was driven by Jerry Jones, Woody Johnson and a few others.

Here's another example of what I'm talking about. Everybody gets morally objectionable when it comes to others, but deep down, they are all trying to beat the system in their own way. Even 'honorable' legends like Jerry Rice (this one cracks me up):

Rice On Deflategate: “I’m going to be point blank, I feel like it’s cheating. Because you have an edge up on your opponent and it’s unfortunate that it happened. I’ve played in cold weather, I know how hard the football is and you can grip the leather just a little bit better [if a football is deflated].
“I think you have to really put an asterisk on it, because this is going to follow them, you know, for the rest of their lives, because when you look at it, when people go back and they think about the New England Patriots they’re going to think about these controversies,” Rice continued. “I’ve always wanted to do things the right way. I didn’t want to take any short cuts or anything like that.”

At a later date, Rice On His own career: “I know this might be a little illegal, guys, but I just put a little spray, a little stickum on them, to make sure that texture is a little sticky,” Rice said. Talking about his gloves.

Poor Jerry forgetting the fact that stickum was highly illegal at the time.
 

Husky25

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Dungy and those guys were getting their asses handed to them. He's always been a hypocrite anyway (don't get me started). Football guys like Bill Cowher (one of those who could have complained having directly lost to the Pats) have always thought it nonsense:

“We didn’t lose the game because of any Spygate, because of them having any additional things,” Cowher said. “I think if they’re guilty of anything, they’re guilty of arrogance, because they were told not to do something. But it was something that everybody does. The only thing they got caught [was] doing it with a camera. We had people that always tried to steal signals. Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game, and everybody attempted to do that.
“Part of the things we had [were] wristbands that we were using to do it. It’s not even an element anymore because of the communications that take place on the field to the quarterback, to the linebacker. So it’s an element of the game that doesn’t exist, and really, what happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us, and it has nothing to do with stealing signals, or cheating, or anything else. They were a better football team on that day.”



There's plenty of articles that pertain to the same stuff. But one thing I do know is that people LOVE to write hit pieces about the Pats. Why? Because they get clicks. People have made careers by doing this.

For another example of the hypocrisy of owners driving this stuff, take John Mara again (when they skated on the walkie talkie scandal):

Source The Giants unwittingly, and ironically, have done plenty in the past two Sundays to exonerate the Patriots for #DeflateGate. Yes, Giants co-owner John Mara is believed to have lobbied (along with others) for unreasonably stiff punishment of the Patriots. … [T]he Giants forced the NFL into a clumsy, awkward spot by complaining about Pittsburgh footballs under circumstances that could have been easily explained by natural deflation on a cold day. The NFL couldn’t say that without indirectly clearing the Patriots, so the NFL initially circled the wagons — and then eventually veered off script with a comment that later had to be described as the product of a misstatement.
As to the walkie-talkie scandal, the looming decision to give the Giants a relative slap on the wrist for a blatant and brazen violation of a known rule shows how bizarre it was to hammer the Patriots for a rule that was, essentially, the exact opposite.

You'll notice how it's openly stated that the owners drive these things? That's a well known secret. Spygate was driven by Jerry Jones, Woody Johnson and a few others.

Here's another example of what I'm talking about. Everybody gets morally objectionable when it comes to others, but deep down, they are all trying to beat the system in their own way. Even 'honorable' legends like Jerry Rice (this one cracks me up):

Rice On Deflategate: “I’m going to be point blank, I feel like it’s cheating. Because you have an edge up on your opponent and it’s unfortunate that it happened. I’ve played in cold weather, I know how hard the football is and you can grip the leather just a little bit better [if a football is deflated].
“I think you have to really put an asterisk on it, because this is going to follow them, you know, for the rest of their lives, because when you look at it, when people go back and they think about the New England Patriots they’re going to think about these controversies,” Rice continued. “I’ve always wanted to do things the right way. I didn’t want to take any short cuts or anything like that.”

At a later date, Rice On His own career: “I know this might be a little illegal, guys, but I just put a little spray, a little stickum on them, to make sure that texture is a little sticky,” Rice said. Talking about his gloves.

Poor Jerry forgetting the fact that stickum was highly illegal at the time.

Blasphemous. John Mara is all class.:rolleyes:
 

JordyG

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Dungy and those guys were getting their asses handed to them. He's always been a hypocrite anyway (don't get me started). Football guys like Bill Cowher (one of those who could have complained having directly lost to the Pats) have always thought it nonsense:

“We didn’t lose the game because of any Spygate, because of them having any additional things,” Cowher said. “I think if they’re guilty of anything, they’re guilty of arrogance, because they were told not to do something. But it was something that everybody does. The only thing they got caught [was] doing it with a camera. We had people that always tried to steal signals. Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game, and everybody attempted to do that.
“Part of the things we had [were] wristbands that we were using to do it. It’s not even an element anymore because of the communications that take place on the field to the quarterback, to the linebacker. So it’s an element of the game that doesn’t exist, and really, what happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us, and it has nothing to do with stealing signals, or cheating, or anything else. They were a better football team on that day.”



There's plenty of articles that pertain to the same stuff. But one thing I do know is that people LOVE to write hit pieces about the Pats. Why? Because they get clicks. People have made careers by doing this.

For another example of the hypocrisy of owners driving this stuff, take John Mara again (when they skated on the walkie talkie scandal):

Source The Giants unwittingly, and ironically, have done plenty in the past two Sundays to exonerate the Patriots for #DeflateGate. Yes, Giants co-owner John Mara is believed to have lobbied (along with others) for unreasonably stiff punishment of the Patriots. … [T]he Giants forced the NFL into a clumsy, awkward spot by complaining about Pittsburgh footballs under circumstances that could have been easily explained by natural deflation on a cold day. The NFL couldn’t say that without indirectly clearing the Patriots, so the NFL initially circled the wagons — and then eventually veered off script with a comment that later had to be described as the product of a misstatement.
As to the walkie-talkie scandal, the looming decision to give the Giants a relative slap on the wrist for a blatant and brazen violation of a known rule shows how bizarre it was to hammer the Patriots for a rule that was, essentially, the exact opposite.

You'll notice how it's openly stated that the owners drive these things? That's a well known secret. Spygate was driven by Jerry Jones, Woody Johnson and a few others.

Here's another example of what I'm talking about. Everybody gets morally objectionable when it comes to others, but deep down, they are all trying to beat the system in their own way. Even 'honorable' legends like Jerry Rice (this one cracks me up):

Rice On Deflategate: “I’m going to be point blank, I feel like it’s cheating. Because you have an edge up on your opponent and it’s unfortunate that it happened. I’ve played in cold weather, I know how hard the football is and you can grip the leather just a little bit better [if a football is deflated].
“I think you have to really put an asterisk on it, because this is going to follow them, you know, for the rest of their lives, because when you look at it, when people go back and they think about the New England Patriots they’re going to think about these controversies,” Rice continued. “I’ve always wanted to do things the right way. I didn’t want to take any short cuts or anything like that.”

At a later date, Rice On His own career: “I know this might be a little illegal, guys, but I just put a little spray, a little stickum on them, to make sure that texture is a little sticky,” Rice said. Talking about his gloves.

Poor Jerry forgetting the fact that stickum was highly illegal at the time.
Well as a Pats fan you have had your bias confirmed. I choose to confirm my bias with this:


...and this:


Plus plenty of anecdotal evidence from players on many teams. So, as with you, my bias is confirmed.
 

intlzncster

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Well as a Pats fan you have had your bias confirmed. I choose to confirm my bias with this:


...and this:


Plus plenty of anecdotal evidence from players on many teams. So, as with you, my bias is confirmed.

I'm just looking at facts. That's all I want (and believe you me, most fans of opposing teams aren't interested). Anecdotal evidence is worthless. This is used to explain away their own failure and ineptitude, while justifying their bitterness.
And I point out people's hypocrisy with things they do.

If people looked at facts, they would have seen that deflategate was a load of nonsense. MIT, Harvard, and various and sundry professors and academics proved this scientifically. But since it's the Patriots, people choose to ignore reality. It is what it is. Goes with the territory.

Those ESPN articles (there's one printed every year) boil down to 90% innuendo and supposition; it's always "people say the Patriots do this" yada yada You don't think these teams would turn the Pats in to the League office if they had any proof?? They don't because most of it is BS. I love the one where "our headsets don't seem to work in Foxboro"; what they fail to mention is the NFL itself controls the headsets, not the home team! Saying the NFL favors the Pats would be laugh out loud funny.


ESPN "amazingly" and "coincidentally" releases these things right before the playoffs every time. It's comedy. The thing I do have a prolem with is that ESPN erroneously stated 'facts' (which were not remotely true) at the time about both spygate and deflategate which fanned the flames, and made them both out to be much more than they actually were. People still talk about a supposed taped Rams Superbowl walk through; unfortunately, they left out the fact that such tape or taping never existed. The writer who broke the story almost lost his career over publishing the false claim. The NFL has stated as much as well. ESPN was forced to retract, but it doesn't matter.

People still believe it, when It literally never happened. They prefer the ghost in the machine. This is what I know: Bill Belichick is in every coach and owners head. They ascribed 'mystical' circumstances because they can't beat him on the field.

And Arlen Spector was a diehard Philadelphia fan! After we had recently beat them in the Superbowl. lmao Just another bitter fan trying to rationalize getting pantsed.
 

JordyG

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I'm just looking at facts. That's all I want (and believe you me, most fans of opposing teams aren't interested). Anecdotal evidence is worthless. This is used to explain away their own failure and ineptitude, while justifying their bitterness.
And I point out people's hypocrisy with things they do.

If people looked at facts, they would have seen that deflategate was a load of nonsense. MIT, Harvard, and various and sundry professors and academics proved this scientifically. But since it's the Patriots, people choose to ignore reality. It is what it is. Goes with the territory.

Those ESPN articles (there's one printed every year) boil down to 90% innuendo and supposition; it's always "people say the Patriots do this" yada yada You don't think these teams would turn the Pats in to the League office if they had any proof?? They don't because most of it is BS. I love the one where "our headsets don't seem to work in Foxboro"; what they fail to mention is the NFL itself controls the headsets, not the home team! Saying the NFL favors the Pats would be laugh out loud funny.


ESPN "amazingly" and "coincidentally" releases these things right before the playoffs every time. It's comedy. The thing I do have a prolem with is that ESPN erroneously stated 'facts' (which were not remotely true) at the time about both spygate and deflategate which fanned the flames, and made them both out to be much more than they actually were. People still talk about a supposed taped Rams Superbowl walk through; unfortunately, they left out the fact that such tape or taping never existed. The writer who broke the story almost lost his career over publishing the false claim. The NFL has stated as much as well. ESPN was forced to retract, but it doesn't matter.

People still believe it, when It literally never happened. They prefer the ghost in the machine. This is what I know: Bill Belichick is in every coach and owners head. They ascribed 'mystical' circumstances because they can't beat him on the field.

And Arlen Spector was a diehard Philadelphia fan! After we had recently beat them in the Superbowl. lmao Just another bitter fan trying to rationalize getting pantsed.
Toe-MAH-toe.
 

JordyG

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Nah. Just looking for facts. There are many opinions, but only one fact.
The facts as you see it. I see the facts differently. Hence Toe-MAH-toe.
 

triaddukefan

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Has the thread starter Rocky even posted back in this thread? Has he even witnessed what this thread has become? Classic hit and run posting :cool:
 

MainefanSC

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Has the thread starter Rocky even posted back in this thread? Has he even witnessed what this thread has become? Classic hit and run posting :cool:
Yes, hit and run. But the fall out has been very entertaining. In this long UConnWBB off season, I enjoy such banter. I must say, the writers have been respectful of one another, making it enjoyable.
 

meyers7

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The facts as you see it. I see the facts differently. Hence Toe-MAH-toe.
Now that's the first thing you've said I agree with. You don't see truth as truth, you see falsehoods as truth.
 

intlzncster

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The facts as you see it. I see the facts differently. Hence Toe-MAH-toe.

You're certainly welcome to be a creationist if you choose, but it doesn't make you correct.
 

JordyG

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Now that's the first thing you've said I agree with. You don't see truth as truth, you see falsehoods as truth.
This from a serial reductionist, contrarian and borderline misanthrope, that perhaps hides the mirrors in his house.
You're certainly welcome to be a creationist if you choose, but it doesn't make you correct.
Ditto. I think better, toe-MAY-toe. I perhaps fail to believe in your conspiracy of league owners, league players, the media and the commisioner all aligned to malign your Pats. That seems all an unsupported house of cards to me
 
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I doubt that there is necessarily a conspiracy. Goodell, and the other teams' owners and players are acting in their own self interest. Goodell doesn't want a dynasty, and the others want one of their own. What they have in common is the desire to end New England's dominance.

As far as cheating is concerned, it appears to be endemic to professional sports, and far more widespread in amateur sports than we care to admit. The fact that names like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens appear on MLB's HOF ballot suggests that cheating is even becoming acceptable.
Here are a couple of maxims, at least one of which has been attributed to NASCAR, but which pertain to sports in general:
#1 - It ain't cheating if you don't get caught.
#2 - If you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
 

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