Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[Carl Spackler]

I can't believe you went there upstater, you're true academic aren';t you? Well, I'm a true athletics guy. It figures.

WIthout athletics, specifically Joe Paterno's football program, nope, the state university of pennsylvania does not have the sphere of influence it has. Without Jim Calhoun's basketball program, the state university of connecticut, does not have the sphere of influence.

WIthout athletics at the highest level, without football, Penn State, UConn, are very much the same as the state universities of Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island....for a little real time Kafka - Massachusetts.

Athletics and Academics - yin and yang, forever trying to devour each other, and needing each other to grow.

 

[Carl Spackler]

What do you teach Upstater? I find it amusing that all of this discussion is potentially the discourse might jsut be the Piled higher and Deeper discourse b/w reading/writing/rithmatic vs. gym class.

 

[upstater]

Oooo...ooooo......is uconn a podunk cow college to you!? Were we up until 2003?

would uconn be a podunk cow college without just under 3 decades of Jim Calhoun's b-ball program?

What would the UConn BOT look like right now, what would the finances of the university look like (UConn), what factions and loopholes would exist in the administration, and ties to state government and state businesses be like..... if Calhoun was a football coach?

LOL, man, it was a joke. I didn't even do undergrad at PSU.

That being said there are a lot of great state schools throughout the country without bigtime sports. Look at the AAUs. U Cal San Diego or the SUNYs, etc. I'm sure schools like UConn and PSU would be doing just fine.

 

[upstater]

What do you teach Upstater? I find it amusing that all of this discussion is potentially the discourse might jsut be the Piled higher and Deeper discourse b/w reading/writing/rithmatic vs. gym class.

I actually don't know what you just wrote. But, English.

 

[upstater]

I can't believe you went there upstater, you're true academic aren';t you? Well, I'm a true athletics guy. It figures.

WIthout athletics, specifically Joe Paterno's football program, nope, the state university of pennsylvania does not have the sphere of influence it has. Without Jim Calhoun's basketball program, the state university of connecticut, does not have the sphere of influence.

WIthout athletics at the highest level, without football, Penn State, UConn, are very much the same as the state universities of Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island....for a little real time Kafka - Massachusetts.

Athletics and Academics - yin and yang, forever trying to devour each other, and needing each other to grow.

How many examples do you need that disprove this?

 

[Carl Spackler]

I actually don't know what you just wrote. But, English.

Classic. Piled higher and deeper is an acronym my friend/foe. I suppose I would need the same number of examples to disprove what I wrote about in #545, that you would need agree with it. How many pages do you think we could get out of it? You really think we'd get anywhere when it's over except more questions?

May as well try to argue that men and women don't need each other for a society to survive.

 

[upstater]

Classic. Piled higher and deeper is an acronym my friend/foe. I suppose I would need the same number of examples to disprove what I wrote about in #545, that you would need agree with it. How many pages do you think we could get out of it? You really think we'd get anywhere when it's over except more questions?

May as well try to argue that men and women don't need each other for a society to survive.

I don't dispute that schools like BC and Notre Dame and Boise St. have gotten a lot of marketing oooomph out of sports. Maybe UConn fits there too. With schools like Michigan and Virginia it's impossible to say since they had achieved academic powerhouse status before the age of bigtime college sports. Yet, Andrew Zimbalist did a study which said the vast majority get absolutely no help from sports, and that for some schools, there's even a notable sheen from losing that rubs off. I.e. "I'm not going to Rutgers, it's for losers!!!." I don't think this argument can be settled, but for every UConn or Boise St or BC or Notre Dame, there's a U. Cal San Diego or Irvine or Santa Barbara or SUNY or NYU or Boston U.

 

[sdhusky]

Yeah, but, the Germans under Hitler also burned books and libraries. Get rid of professors and libraries?

Get rid of Joe. Every mention of him. Take the money out of the Football budget if needed or let professors walk.

PSU will be back.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Are you guys taking a dinner break?

 

[CL82]

Did he not just advise PSU that a thorough investigation is going to be done? I can't imagine he'd write them advising what specific violations he thinks there were, and would leave that to be uncovered. My guess is still the NCAA is going on a witch hunt for money. That's ultimately what will do PSU in with the NCAA. I don't think they want to pin their entire punishment on morality and loose interpretations of their rules. As the phrase goes, follow the money.

No he advised them that their was an institution control issue. The NCAA can act here. Time will tell if they do.

 

[CL82]

You're nuts too, you know. Just different nuts than me.

Classic. I'm adding this to my summer signature.

 

[noeynox]

At some point, this thread should get the death penalty.

 

[zls44]

You're talking out of your ass and should be ashamed.

You defend a guy who hid a pedophile, made a Nazis (!!!!) reference...and I should be ashamed!?!?

 

[zls44]

Also, the idea that out of the thousands of universities in America, ONLY Penn State is endowing humanities positions is inaccurate at best and completely delusional at worst.

The grand experiment failed. Completely and entirely. Accept it.

Burn everything. Start anew.

 

[CL82]

At some point, this thread should get the death penalty.

Well we don't want to unfairly punish the readers who have done nothing wrong. Maybe if the thread is left on it's own, it will just shorten itself to a reasonable length? Isn't that really a better alternative? I mean what's important is that we all learn from the terrible tragedy that is this thread. Frankly I think the posters here have learned their lesson.

 

[whaler11]

Not that I didn't know YCG was nuts, but trying to pin down Upstater on Penn State is like trying to handle a greased pig while riding a bronco.

 

[upstater]

You defend a guy who hid a pedophile, made a Nazis (!!!!) reference...and I should be ashamed!?!?

Except for the part where I didn't defend a guy who hid a pedophile nor made a Nazi reference, you are 100% right. Also, your propaganda skills and attempts to twist things no one ever said are very Goebbels-ish.

 

[upstater]

Also, the idea that out of the thousands of universities in America, ONLY Penn State is endowing humanities positions is inaccurate at best and completely delusional at worst.

The grand experiment failed. Completely and entirely. Accept it.

Burn everything. Start anew.

And, of course, no one ever said any of that. Either you're deranged or your comprehension skills are wanting.

 

[upstater]

Not that I didn't know YCG was nuts, but trying to pin down Upstater on Penn State is like trying to handle a greased pig while riding a bronco.

I can't be clearer. What's so difficult?

 

[noeynox]

JoePa was a great man. Like all of us, flawed, and in some ways significantly so. So no, I don't think the statue needs to come down.

But, Penn State needs to take a meaningful step to show remorse, to show that the culture that allowed for this atrocity is being addressed and to make a significant contribution to victims of child abuse (not as part of settlements they are about to encounter, but a unilateral contribution).

I think it starts with the football program. A self imposed, multi-year reduction in football scholarships with the savings associated with such to be contributed to such a cause.

A home game, dedicated to the victims maybe even all victims, of child abuse. Before the game there should be a moment of silence in rememberence and where PSU says "we're sorry". The gate proceeds, or a significant portion thereof, should also be contributed to the cause.

Finally, there should be a self imposed ban for one or two seasons on any bowl appearances. Because it shows in some small way that football takes a backseat to doing what is right.

That would be leadership. That would be a start to healing. I am not hopeful.

Good post, but I disagree with the highlighted. He may have done some really good things, maybe even great things throughout his 50 years at PSU, but "Great" men, don't look the other way on child rape for AT LEAST 12 years, to avoid 'BAD PUBLICITY'. Seems unfair, he really did undo "the greatness" by his inaction.

Yes we are all human, and we are all flawed, but this whole saga is one of the strangest things I have seen in my life. Highly educated men, CHOSE to look the other way on child rape for fear of bad publicity to the "Program"? Strange, and it still doesn't add up to me.

 

[whaler11]

I can't be clearer. What's so difficult?

Can anyone else tell me if they understand where upstater stands? Don't try to explain, just say you know his stance.

You come off as defending PSU to me. Probably not what you are trying to do but seems that way to me.

 

[BlueMAB]

Can anyone else tell me if they understand where upstater stands? Don't try to explain, just say you know his stance.

You come off as defending PSU to me. Probably not what you are trying to do but seems that way to me.

I know you said not to, but...

From what I get, and I haven't read all 56 ridiculous pages, is that upstater believes the school should and will be punished (to what extent, I'm not sure). Also that JoePa doesn't deserve more criticism than the president etc; because his superiors were equally as complacent as he was.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Can anyone else tell me if they understand where upstater stands? Don't try to explain, just say you know his stance.

You come off as defending PSU to me. Probably not what you are trying to do but seems that way to me.

I do now. But it took me a solid 40 plus pages to get there.

 

[upstater]

I know you said not to, but...

From what I get, and I haven't read all 56 ridiculous pages, is that upstater believes the school should and will be punished (to what extent, I'm not sure). Also that JoePa doesn't deserve more criticism than the president etc; because his superiors were equally as complacent as he was.

You see, not that hard. Obviously there's more because I'm more concerned about other things than football, but as far as punishment, yes, and as far as Spanier, he's equally as culpable as Paterno.

 

[upstater]

I do now. But it took me a solid 40 plus pages to get there.

I haven't changed my position. If there's anything confusing, and this is why Carl and I have disagreed, it's that I see this as an institutional problem and not just a football problem. And that's what I've been saying all along. Prior to the release of the emails two weeks ago I didn't know the extent of everyone's involvement, but I suspected because I knew of similar allegations of child sex abuse in the past, and I knew how they were dealt with. Badly.

 

[BlueMAB]

I knew of similar allegations of child sex abuse in the past, and I knew how they were dealt with. Badly.

Why are you defending child molesters?

 

[upstater]

Strange, and it still doesn't add up to me.

Take into account litigation, liabilities, cost/benefits, typical wonky thinking, and it'll show you how blinkered these so-called education men were. It's not like this didn't happen before at PSU with Spanier.

 

[upstater]

Why are you defending child molesters?

Is that like NelsonMuntz Vulcan mindmeld technique?

 

[whaler11]

I know you said not to, but...

From what I get, and I haven't read all 56 ridiculous pages, is that upstater believes the school should and will be punished (to what extent, I'm not sure). Also that JoePa doesn't deserve more criticism than the president etc; because his superiors were equally as complacent as he was.

I hope you are wrong.

 

[whaler11]

You see, not that hard. Obviously there's more because I'm more concerned about other things than football, but as far as punishment, yes, and as far as Spanier, he's equally as culpable as Paterno.

Well i see upstater agrees. No one is more guilty than Paterno. He ran the place.

When Presidents came to town they wanted to see Joe. When you have an audience with the President of the United States whenever you desire - you hold the bag when its full of shit in the end.