Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?

[upstater]

Upstater:

If you have any respect at all for me, please - go out and buy Eric Greitens "The Heart and the Fist" - today. I discussed it a while back in this monster of a discussion. Read it over the weekend. Don't pay attention to anythying in the news about Penn State over the weekend when you do it.

I understand everything you've written about the BOT - needing to change they way information flows, the closed chain involved that led to all of this, how they need to change that. THat kind of change is absolutely necessary, and I expect it to happen, and if it doesn't, I think you've already agreed that there's significant blowing up to do.

THe problem, is that I don't believe that change is enough, there are times for going through the heart, and there are times for going with the fist, and the fist to the football program for Penn State, is the only way to address this situation. Confronting this issue, is the reason that Eric Greitens, rhodes scholar, greenpeace huminatarian peace and aid worker in Eastern europe and Africa, choose to enroll in the Navy and become a navy seal, and on to OCS, and went to battle as a warrior for our country.

If after you read that book, you think you can convince me that there is still a way for Penn State to correct all that happened regarding Jerry Sandusky, without severely, SEVERELY, punishing the football program, then I will listen.

For now, I'm going to do something I've never done on this message board, and i'm going to choose to ignore you. Nothing personal, I just can't take reading any more logical, peaceful kind of approach to change for PSU. It's got to forceful, damage induced change. I'll check back next week.

I already agreed with you on this. I said they should punish the football program out of moral opprobrium. Where I disagree with you is that there is a causal impact on procedural matters when it comes to such accusations. I don't think there will be.

 

[upstater]

AT least if they had gone with the orignial plan, they would have informed more people that could protect that single child - and all the others.

This is totally wrong. It wasn't the initial plan. I just proved that to you but you ignore it.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Take the statue down, and get rid of the prez and AD. It's not an indictment on them, but these guys were PSU insiders for a long time. Gotta cleanse the school.

 

[junglehusky]

The statue is a symbol. You have to get rid of the symbol, but you really have to get rid of the things it stands for (failed leadership, a culture of cover-up, ducked up priorities).

 

[B1GEast]

Tear the statue down and give them the death penalty. PSU fans right now are in denial.

 

[sdhusky]

Tear the statue down and give them the death penalty. PSU fans right now are in denial.

Paterno is the worst guy in the history of college athletics. The biggest villian and biggest cheat, liar and criminal.

PSU should completely erase him from their campus, except to have a shrine to the victims and show how Sandusky and Paterno worked together to destroy innocent lives. Everything else should be erased - regardless of the cost.

 

[sdhusky]

But, rather than worry about the statue, what do you think is going to happen with the multiple Chairs that Paterno endowed? Or even the Paterno Library? Like it or not, he left his mark on that university. It's an interesting question, because these Chairs and the Library cannot be renamed without the university returning all that money. The school doesn't get to just keep the Paterno money.

I wonder if the Germans worried about how much money it would take to erase Hitler from German institutions?

PSU shouldn't be worried about money right now. Just getting rid of the pedofile enabler.

 

[Carl Spackler]

This is totally wrong. It wasn't the initial plan. I just proved that to you but you ignore it.

Holy upstater please.

Do you believe for a second after that girl was raped and murdered in her dorm room in 1986 in Pennsylvania at Lehigh, that Joe Paterno wasn't fully aware of the Clery Act?

THe very fact that anyone at that university, especially that four people involved right now in this coverup discussion the four most powerful with regards to that football program had the instinct to go to Sandusky at all, was because no one at that university every felt the need that compliance and training in reporting crimes was necessary at a university in State College.

In a case like this - the very LAST thing you do, is inform the pedophile that you are aware of his activity AND with a specific child? That kid's life was in immediate danger, and I will bow down and thank God on my knees if he is ever found alive.

Had Joe Paterno, ever felt the need that the people in his program be trained in properly reporting crimes, even though he knew he had a potential serial child rapist in the office next door to him, this could all have been stopped.

It wasn't until after 2007, that crime reporting compliance for Clery went into effect at Penn STate, and about the same time, that was when Sandusky finally started getting the law enforcement attention he should have had so long ago.

It was all because the power of the football program was absolute.

It's disgusting, how penn state people, continue to show so little regard for the children.

the fact that the statue of Joe Paterno is topic of discussion at all? It should be gone right now, without a word, and Penn State should be building the largest child care and abuse preventions center in the world.

WIthout having to be asked.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I wonder if the Germans worried about how much money it would take to erase Hitler from German institutions?

PSU shouldn't be worried about money right now. Just getting rid of the pedofile enabler.

Really with the Hitler comparison? Way to go full bore Nelson Muntz on us.

 

[upstater]

I wonder if the Germans worried about how much money it would take to erase Hitler from German institutions?

PSU shouldn't be worried about money right now. Just getting rid of the pedofile enabler.

Yeah, but, the Germans under Hitler also burned books and libraries. Get rid of professors and libraries?

 

[upstater]

Holy **** upstater please.

Do you believe for a second after that girl was raped and murdered in her dorm room in 1986 in Pennsylvania at Lehigh, that Joe Paterno wasn't fully aware of the Clery Act?

THe very fact that anyone at that university, especially that four people involved right now in this coverup discussion the four most powerful with regards to that football program had the instinct to go to Sandusky at all, was because no one at that university every felt the need that compliance and training in reporting crimes was necessary at a university in State College.

In a case like this - the very LAST thing you do, is inform the pedophile that you are aware of his activity AND with a specific child? That kid's life was in immediate danger, and I will bow down and thank God on my knees if he is ever found alive.

Had Joe Paterno, ever felt the need that the people in his program be trained in properly reporting crimes, even though he knew he had a potential serial child rapist in the office next door to him, this could all have been stopped.

It wasn't until after 2007, that crime reporting compliance for Clery went into effect at Penn STate, and about the same time, that was when Sandusky finally started getting the law enforcement attention he should have had so long ago.

It was all because the power of the football program was absolute.

It's disgusting, how penn state people, continue to show so little regard for the children.

the fact that the statue of Joe Paterno is topic of discussion at all? It should be gone right now, without a word, and Penn State should be building the largest child care and abuse preventions center in the world.

WIthout having to be asked.

Stop deflecting. What you wrote is totally different than what the Exhibit I mentioned shows. You're the one who claimed I was wrong about the fact that Paterno and Spanier came to an agreement about how to proceed. Yet I showed you the exact exhibit that proves I was right.

You continue to ignore.

 

[UCFBfan]

I think upstater and Carl need their own thread! As soon as they jump on the thread it grows by 3 pages in minutes! Lol

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[CL82]

They should just ad a little Calvin statue peeing on his foot.

Somehow a kid with pants open might not be the right statement.

 

[Waquoit]

But, rather than worry about the statue, what do you think is going to happen with the multiple Chairs that Paterno endowed? Or even the Paterno Library? Like it or not, he left his mark on that university. It's an interesting question, because these Chairs and the Library cannot be renamed without the university returning all that money. The school doesn't get to just keep the Paterno money.
.

Okay, so this issue is about the money! If they leave his name on the library they are saying that they, like the library's benefactor, don't really have a problem with child molestation. Especially if it might cost them money.

Nova did the right thing and took DuPont's name off their gym. Of course, that was no thanks to Gene DeFilippo. At the time he said, " what other name would you name it?''

 

[phillionaire]

I wonder if the Germans worried about how much money it would take to erase Hitler from German institutions?

PSU shouldn't be worried about money right now. Just getting rid of the pedofile enabler.

Only took two pages for Hitler to get brought up haha

 

[CL82]

Yeah, but, the Germans under Hitler also burned books and libraries. Get rid of professors and libraries?

Wow, upstater. That's a little silly isn't it. Support continuing a shine to a pedophile enabler or you are a book burner?

 

[OkaForPrez]

I say build a statue of a bronze child off to the side by himself, and let it stand as a reminder of the need to find your voice when situation demands it, no matter the consequences.

 

[CL82]

I think this is naive. If you read the report, it's clear that Spanier and Schultz were already predisposed toward the strategy they took. The emails prior to the Curley-Paterno meeting showed that they were wavering as to whether it was a really good idea to alert authorities. After Curley talked to Paterno, they immediately agreed and even went beyond that by, 1, saying the new course was reasonable, 2, "humane" treatment of Sandusky, 3, they mentioned the cost/benefit of liabilities, and 4, never once mentioned the victims. If I were to weigh fault, I would put it on Paterno/Spanier. Schultz was semi-retired (it was his last month on the job) and should have spoken up. Curley really was Paterno's minion.

Bold text is the key here. Joe Pa pushed the group from reporting a pedophile into not reporting it.

If you are buying the "more humane" BS, then I think you are being naive. That is spin, whether due their own cognitive dissonance over leaving Sandusky out there to prey upon innocents, or some modicum of caution in a written communication. This was always about maintaining the university's, and Joe Pa's, reputation. It was more important than children's well being. Shameful. Just shameful.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Bold text is the key here. Joe Pa pushed the group from reporting a pedophile into not reporting it.

If you are buying the "more humane" BS, then I think you are being naive. That is spin, whether due their own cognitive dissonance over leaving Sandusky out there to prey upon innocents, or some modicum of caution in a written communication. This was always about maintaining the university's, and Joe Pa's, reputation. It was more important that children's well being. Shameful. Just shameful.

I don't know how hard this is to understand?

 

[CL82]

I say build a statue of a bronze child off to the side by himself, and let it stand as a reminder of the need to find your voice when situation demands it, no matter the consequences.

It would never happen but a statue of small sad child with the Joe Pa statue pointing and leading the charge in the other direction would be incredibly appropriate.

Title it "Looking the other way at Penn State."

 

[CL82]

Good article advocating for the death penalty

LINK

 

[upstater]

Bold text is the key here. Joe Pa pushed the group from reporting a pedophile into not reporting it.

If you are buying the "more humane" BS, then I think you are being naive. That is spin, whether due their own cognitive dissonance over leaving Sandusky out there to prey upon innocents, or some modicum of caution in a written communication. This was always about maintaining the university's, and Joe Pa's, reputation. It was more important than children's well being. Shameful. Just shameful.

Did you read the handwritten note on 2/12/01? This is Schultz and Spanier.

"--Talked with TMC.
--Reviewed the 1998 history.
--Agreed TMC will meet with JVP and advise.
--We think TMC will meet w/ JS on Friday
--Unless he confesses to having a problem, TMC will indicate that we need to have DPW review the matter as an independent agency concerned with child welfare.
--TMC will keep me posted."

By making this solely about football, you guys are letting the administrative culture which weighs cost-benefits and liabilities off the hook. Spanier has a pattern and record of covering up child abuse dealing with non-football matters (a professor in one instance). Indeed, do you know whol else Schultz and Curley spoke to about Sandusky prior to Schultz and Spanier's note? He spoke to Wendell Courtney and university lawyers, who all signed off on this way of proceeding. As I said earlier, football should be punished. But I've seen only one article out there (in SALON) that managed to read the report and draw conclusions in proper context that holds Spanier equally liable. I think the Freeh leaks, which didn't include Schultz's handwritten note of 2/12/01, set the stage for all of this. And the emphasis is off Spanier who claims that together with attorney Cyndi Baldwin kept the BOT apprised. Spanier is not only unindicted but is still a PSU employee.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I heard a good point on the radio last night. If they give PSU the death penalty, numerous other sports at PSU will be harshly affected, since many of the non-revenue sports survive on the money football makes. So if football is gone for a year, it could mean the temporary or permanent axing of many teams who had absolutely nothing to do with this. It could also lead to potential tuition increases since there would be less money coming into the university, which would in turn affect taxpayers in the state of PA (wasn't an issue with SMU of course) and force students to pay more. The overarching point was, this is a matter best handled by the criminal courts, not the NCAA courts. This report more or less confirms all of the major players will be put on trial and most if not all will likely go to jail for one reason or another. I'm not sure a death penalty, based on the facts we know now, really accomplishes too much other than making the public happy. Those who were involved will be punished criminally, as they should.

 

[upstater]

Okay, so this issue is about the money! If they leave his name on the library they are saying that they, like the library's benefactor, don't really have a problem with child molestation. Especially if it might cost them money.

Nova did the right thing and took DuPont's name off their gym. Of course, that was no thanks to Gene DeFilippo. At the time he said, " what other name would you name it?''

Losing a gym doesn't hurt the educational priorities of a school. Losing world-renowned educators who occupy the Paterno chairs would. Libraries are more important than gyms as well.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I heard a good point on the radio last night. If they give PSU the death penalty, numerous other sports at PSU will be harshly affected, since many of the non-revenue sports survive on the money football makes. So if football is gone for a year, it could mean the temporary or permanent axing of many teams who had absolutely nothing to do with this. It could also lead to potential tuition increases since there would be less money coming into the university, which would in turn affect taxpayers in the state of PA (wasn't an issue with SMU of course) and force students to pay more. The overarching point was, this is a matter best handled by the criminal courts, not the NCAA courts. This report more or less confirms all of the major players will be put on trial and most if not all will likely go to jail for one reason or another. I'm not sure a death penalty, based on the facts we know now, really accomplishes too much other than making the public happy. Those who were involved will be punished criminally, as they should.

There is always collateral damage, when the choice of course of action is to inflict damage to create change in a culture. That is why it is a decision that cannot be taken without extreme deliberation, and why the NCAA ducked up royally with SMU in 1987. It's why going to war in aggressive posture, for the U.S., has the process it's supposed to go through, on paper, before you open up the arsenals on an attack. It's why after 9/11, some sketchy things had to happen, to put the U.S. military into an aggressive posture.

The shut down of the PSU football program, for failure to main institutional control and ethics, is most definitely warranted in this case from the NCAA. The collateral damage risk to the institution, is not enough to stop it. And seriously, if shutting down the footblal program for a a year at PSU has SUCH and effect to harm the university? Isn't that evidence enough that the problem - is the football program?

The case of failure to maintain institutional control and ethics is too greivous.