Why no talk of death penalty for Penn State?
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phillionaire
esta noche somos mantequilla
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They'll probably just turn him the other way. I'll see myself out...
UCFBfan
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I saw that as well. It's a tough spot but I think it needs to come down. If anything, they need to start by washing away as much as possible the reminders of the whole thing. Clearly no one will forget Joe but the sayings around the statue completely contradict the end result. He may have stood for honor and integrity but this one event smears that away unfortunately.
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I'm sure it wouldn't get a share. Either way the school is going to pay, but the question is, should it come from football or tuition dollars.
Personally, that's a secondary concern of mine, as I said in my initial reply. I'd be much more concerned by the meeting that's happening today in response to the Freeh report. The BOT is deciding how to change PSU's culture given the closed circuit that created the cover-up. If the BOT decides that it will now demand oversight in cases such as this, I think PSU will change for the worse. There will only be even more political interference in the future. If, on the other hand, PSU takes up the recommendations that the Joe Paterno Chair, Michael Berube, made in the NY Times, to appoint a board of faculty to oversee such investigations, then there will be an amount of transparency that will be good for the university. The vast majority (probably 99%) of faculty there are outsiders who do not have PSU degrees. This wouldn't have gotten by such a board. It was the closed circuit between Paterno, Schultz and Spanier that created the mess.
I think this is the biggest issue and whatever the BOT decides, you'll see exactly where their hearts and minds reside. Keeping it inside the BOT (which has even more of a closed mentality than the administration) will mean no change at all, and possibly a worse atmosphere. If they go that route, expect a huge pushback from faculty of the sort you saw at U. Virginia and U. Illinois recently.
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I think this is naive. If you read the report, it's clear that Spanier and Schultz were already predisposed toward the strategy they took. The emails prior to the Curley-Paterno meeting showed that they were wavering as to whether it was a really good idea to alert authorities. After Curley talked to Paterno, they immediately agreed and even went beyond that by, 1, saying the new course was reasonable, 2, "humane" treatment of Sandusky, 3, they mentioned the cost/benefit of liabilities, and 4, never once mentioned the victims. If I were to weigh fault, I would put it on Paterno/Spanier. Schultz was semi-retired (it was his last month on the job) and should have spoken up. Curley really was Paterno's minion.
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I'll say yes, though there are much bigger fish to fry on that campus, like how the BOT is going to handle the Freeh report (and I'm not talking about its treatment of football here but rather what boards will oversee such allegations in the future).
But, rather than worry about the statue, what do you think is going to happen with the multiple Chairs that Paterno endowed? Or even the Paterno Library? Like it or not, he left his mark on that university. It's an interesting question, because these Chairs and the Library cannot be renamed without the university returning all that money. The school doesn't get to just keep the Paterno money.
Whatever happens, you can bet that Paterno's name will be officially associated with the university for a very long time. So, taking the statue down won't really matter. The guy was there for 50 years. It will be incredibly hard to get rid of him.
But, rather than worry about the statue, what do you think is going to happen with the multiple Chairs that Paterno endowed? Or even the Paterno Library? Like it or not, he left his mark on that university. It's an interesting question, because these Chairs and the Library cannot be renamed without the university returning all that money. The school doesn't get to just keep the Paterno money.
Whatever happens, you can bet that Paterno's name will be officially associated with the university for a very long time. So, taking the statue down won't really matter. The guy was there for 50 years. It will be incredibly hard to get rid of him.
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This is horsesh*t. I swear Penn State people are going to drive me to drink.
Page 227 Exhibit 5G
http://assets.espn.go.com/pdf/2012/0712/psupressrelease.pdf
Sunday, 2/25/2011 Curley had a conversation with his superiors about how to handle Sandusky,and course of action was decided upon, which based on teh response back to Spanier on Tuesday night, involved "going to everyone". Curley met with Joe Paterno on Monday 2/26/2011. AFter that meeting, he scheduled a meeting with his superiors to review the plan, which he was no longer comfortable with.
Curly went from taking info given him, meeting with his superiors on a Sunday, deciding on a course of action that involved "going to everyone", meeting with Joe Paterno on monday, and then going to a course of action that was approved by his superiors, that involved telling Sandusky they knew all about him and the kids - putting those kids in immediate, life threatening, danger. That's what Joe Paterno did.
I"m going to make a reach here, but you all out there go ahead and be the judge.
THis decision - to go to Sandusky - instead of goign to authorties.....is the duckING thing that kills me. Anybody else here want to make a guess , have any FICKING idea why that boy in 2001 has never been found? Think I"m being unrealistic? If Sandusky was capable of everythign he did, what else was he capable of doing to one of those boys? That boy, will never be found, because he's dead. I want to beat the out of somebody. I could never be a law enforcement professional.
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If Paterno had told him to keep the hell out and told the other coaches and staff to keep jerry out, Sandusky would have been kept out. And obvioulsy they didn't make any effort to enforce the "no children" rule on him, even after 2001. he was still coming in and apparetnly bringing children in well after 2001.
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Amen. The rest of all this BS discussion is Penn State people defending their six decade old culture of absolute power built up around football at all costs, which is exactly why it must be struck down. Quickly and forcefully.
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I guess I don't have strong feelings about that one way or another. For once I agree with upstater that there are bigger issues here than a statue. I would think if i were part of Penn State's administration that I'd be inclined to move it somewhere less highly visible for the moment...some out of the way courtyard on the campus maybe and do it as quietly as possible.
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You're wrong.
Exhibit 5c on 2/12/01 shows that Schultz and Spanier had already agreed to contact Sandusky first, and they said unless Sandusky went along, only then would they contact authorities. This is on page 219.
This proves you never read the report.
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No, what's bullshit is your constant twisting and distorting of the facts.
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Upstater:
If you have any respect at all for me, please - go out and buy Eric Greitens "The Heart and the Fist" - today. I discussed it a while back in this monster of a discussion. Read it over the weekend. Don't pay attention to anythying in the news about Penn State over the weekend when you do it.
I understand everything you've written about the BOT - needing to change they way information flows, the closed chain involved that led to all of this, how they need to change that. THat kind of change is absolutely necessary, and I expect it to happen, and if it doesn't, I think you've already agreed that there's significant blowing up to do.
THe problem, is that I don't believe that change is enough, there are times for going through the heart, and there are times for going with the fist, and the fist to the football program for Penn State, is the only way to address this situation. Confronting this issue, is the reason that Eric Greitens, rhodes scholar, greenpeace huminatarian peace and aid worker in Eastern europe and Africa, choose to enroll in the Navy and become a navy seal, and on to OCS, and went to battle as a warrior for our country.
If after you read that book, you think you can convince me that there is still a way for Penn State to correct all that happened regarding Jerry Sandusky, without severely, SEVERELY, punishing the football program, then I will listen.
For now, I'm going to do something I've never done on this message board, and i'm going to choose to ignore you. Nothing personal, I just can't take reading any more logical, peaceful kind of approach to change for PSU. It's got to forceful, damage induced change. I'll check back next week.
If you have any respect at all for me, please - go out and buy Eric Greitens "The Heart and the Fist" - today. I discussed it a while back in this monster of a discussion. Read it over the weekend. Don't pay attention to anythying in the news about Penn State over the weekend when you do it.
I understand everything you've written about the BOT - needing to change they way information flows, the closed chain involved that led to all of this, how they need to change that. THat kind of change is absolutely necessary, and I expect it to happen, and if it doesn't, I think you've already agreed that there's significant blowing up to do.
THe problem, is that I don't believe that change is enough, there are times for going through the heart, and there are times for going with the fist, and the fist to the football program for Penn State, is the only way to address this situation. Confronting this issue, is the reason that Eric Greitens, rhodes scholar, greenpeace huminatarian peace and aid worker in Eastern europe and Africa, choose to enroll in the Navy and become a navy seal, and on to OCS, and went to battle as a warrior for our country.
If after you read that book, you think you can convince me that there is still a way for Penn State to correct all that happened regarding Jerry Sandusky, without severely, SEVERELY, punishing the football program, then I will listen.
For now, I'm going to do something I've never done on this message board, and i'm going to choose to ignore you. Nothing personal, I just can't take reading any more logical, peaceful kind of approach to change for PSU. It's got to forceful, damage induced change. I'll check back next week.
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God damn, you keep drawing me back in, I didn't see this and I didn't ignore fast enough. Paterno was involved in making it so that proper reporting training was not done for the football program. THe problem - is that they went to Sandusky. at all. Yes, "going to everyone" including going to Sandusky and authorities. SAndusky should never have been told that they know - do you get that? That's the danger they put that child in.
After meeting with Paterno, they didn't tell anybody BUT Sandusky and his circle of influence!!!!! AT least if they had gone with the orignial plan, they would have informed more people that could protect that single child - and all the others.
WHen the former director of the FBI stood up yesterday and talked about how shocking the disregard for the children was by these 4 men - this is exactly what he was talking about.
OK? Please go read that book I referenced. It will change your outlook, I hope.
CYA.
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Similar vein by Buster Olney - Buster_ESPN - "If I were at PSU, I'd want the school to create a Paterno room. Move the statue there, and tell all info w/ neutral text-- the good AND bad"
Waquoit
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Can we agree that Jay Paterno ought to shut up for his own good? He's coming off as bad as his old man. He also doesn't seem to have an ounce of concern for the victims. The BS detector for me went off full blast when he talked about dad's "superiors" at Penn State. Pops didn't have any superiors at Penn State.
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I already agreed with you on this. I said they should punish the football program out of moral opprobrium. Where I disagree with you is that there is a causal impact on procedural matters when it comes to such accusations. I don't think there will be.
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This is totally wrong. It wasn't the initial plan. I just proved that to you but you ignore it.
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Take the statue down, and get rid of the prez and AD. It's not an indictment on them, but these guys were PSU insiders for a long time. Gotta cleanse the school.
junglehusky
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The statue is a symbol. You have to get rid of the symbol, but you really have to get rid of the things it stands for (failed leadership, a culture of cover-up, ducked up priorities).
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sdhusky
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Paterno is the worst guy in the history of college athletics. The biggest villian and biggest cheat, liar and criminal.
PSU should completely erase him from their campus, except to have a shrine to the victims and show how Sandusky and Paterno worked together to destroy innocent lives. Everything else should be erased - regardless of the cost.
sdhusky
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I wonder if the Germans worried about how much money it would take to erase Hitler from German institutions?
PSU shouldn't be worried about money right now. Just getting rid of the pedofile enabler.
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Holy shit upstater please.
Do you believe for a second after that girl was raped and murdered in her dorm room in 1986 in Pennsylvania at Lehigh, that Joe Paterno wasn't fully aware of the Clery Act?
THe very fact that anyone at that university, especially that four people involved right now in this coverup discussion the four most powerful with regards to that football program had the instinct to go to Sandusky at all, was because no one at that university every felt the need that compliance and training in reporting crimes was necessary at a university in State College.
In a case like this - the very LAST thing you do, is inform the pedophile that you are aware of his activity AND with a specific child? That kid's life was in immediate danger, and I will bow down and thank God on my knees if he is ever found alive.
Had Joe Paterno, ever felt the need that the people in his program be trained in properly reporting crimes, even though he knew he had a potential serial child rapist in the office next door to him, this could all have been stopped.
It wasn't until after 2007, that crime reporting compliance for Clery went into effect at Penn STate, and about the same time, that was when Sandusky finally started getting the law enforcement attention he should have had so long ago.
It was all because the power of the football program was absolute.
It's disgusting, how penn state people, continue to show so little regard for the children.
the fact that the statue of Joe Paterno is topic of discussion at all? It should be gone right now, without a word, and Penn State should be building the largest child care and abuse preventions center in the world.
WIthout having to be asked.
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Really with the Hitler comparison? Way to go full bore Nelson Muntz on us.
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Yeah, but, the Germans under Hitler also burned books and libraries. Get rid of professors and libraries?
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